AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sun 01/04/09


Total Messages Posted: 16



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:24 AM - Re: Cessna Flaps motor (bouguy)
     2. 06:01 AM - Re: Using TurboCad (Sam Hoskins)
     3. 08:09 AM - Re: Battery capacity checker (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     4. 08:18 AM - VP-50 backup (bcollinsmn)
     5. 08:21 AM - Re: Re: Cessna Flaps motor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     6. 08:48 AM - Fuel pressure sender testing (Sheldon Olesen)
     7. 09:58 AM - Re: Using TurboCad (Eric M. Jones)
     8. 10:54 AM - VOR interference with other wiring? (Jef Vervoort)
     9. 11:21 AM - Re: Using TurboCad (David M)
    10. 11:37 AM - Re: Using TurboCad (jaybannist@cs.com)
    11. 01:11 PM - Re: Using TurboCad (Eric M. Jones)
    12. 01:23 PM - Re: Anything wrong with using a plier style crimper? (rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US)
    13. 01:37 PM - Amp crimper 59250 question (rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US)
    14. 01:46 PM - Re: VOR interference with other wiring? (Dennis & Anne Glaeser)
    15. 03:08 PM - Re: MaxDim Group Buy Opportunity (Phil Samuelian)
    16. 04:45 PM - Re: Using TurboCad (B Tomm)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 01:24:39 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Cessna Flaps motor
    From: "bouguy" <boullu.guy@libertysurf.fr>
    Hi Bob , thanks for your reply ; it is not for a bus load analysis , as it is an intermittent load ; seen a 10A breaker on a 24Volts Cessna 172 but as i am building a faster aircraft with more flaps surfaces i thought it was not correctly sized for me . i am going to follow your indications : wiring with 14awg with a 15 Amp breaker , and if it pops up , i will change for a 20 Amp. i have a similar question for a Prestolite Power Pack rebuilt Aroelectic 28volts HYH-5001ECH ; what would be the correct wire sizing and breaker ? thanks again for help , Boullu guy . Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222762#222762


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:01:11 AM PST US
    From: "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Using TurboCad
    I have used various CAD systems over the years and when I retired I was seeking a good free one for home use. I came across a professional program called Siemens' Solid Edge Designer for 2D<http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/velocity/solidedge/free2d/index.shtml>. I really like it. It uses something called "Relationship handles" which is useful, but difficult for me to describe here. The company makes it free to individuals and companies in the hope that you like it so much that you'll upgrade to their 3D system. It does work with all of Bob's drawings. The bad new is there is no manual available. The good news is the online help is adequate and, best yet, there is also ae e-mail list run by tech experts at SolidEdge. Sam Hoskins Murphysboro, IL On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 8:40 PM, B Tomm <fvalarm@rapidnet.net> wrote: > To the Cad whizzes out there. > > I'm taking advantage of the bad weather and trying to "professionalize" my > wiring diagrams using TurboCad. I'm starting to feel really old here cause > I'm so frustrated with this TurboCad program. I really want to make it work > and not get something else. I've imported a drawing from Bob's collection > in DWG format. All I want to do is erase a few lines, re-draw them slightly > elsewhere and copy a few fuses to add the extra circuits. Erase, copy, cut, > paste, snap are eluding me even though there are a bazillion tools all > around. Can I not just put a square around a section of the drawing, cut > and paste etc? > > Jack Daniels is starting to tempt me! > > Bevan > > > * > > * > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:09:38 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Battery capacity checker
    At 07:44 PM 1/3/2009, you wrote: ><brianrobertwood@gmail.com> > >Shouldn't you have to take into account the effciency of the inverter >also, to get usable results? Not necessary. You set the load (numbers and sizes of light bulbs) to achieve the desired LOAD ON THE BATTERY. You're correct that lamp loads will be less than battery load due to inefficiencies in the power conversion process . . . That's why you set it up with the DC ammeter. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:18:26 AM PST US
    Subject: VP-50 backup
    From: "bcollinsmn" <bob@rvbuildershotline.com>
    Wondering if anyone has installed a Vertical Power 50 (or 100, the 200 is a whole different animal) system and, if so, what did your backup system look like? The "get home" system on the VP Web site would work if the control unit had already crapped out, but doesn't the fuse block prior to the control unit create a point of failure in normal operations? Is it serious? Bob Collins RV Builders' Hotline http://rvbuildershotline.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222789#222789


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:21:55 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Cessna Flaps motor
    At 03:20 AM 1/4/2009, you wrote: > >Hi Bob , > >thanks for your reply ; > >it is not for a bus load analysis , as it is an intermittent load ; >seen a 10A breaker on a 24Volts Cessna 172 but as i am >building a faster aircraft with more flaps surfaces i thought it >was not correctly sized for me . "faster", "more" etc. are poor quantifiers of design. The air-loads on a flap system are directly related to area and IAS . . . but FORCE on the actuator is also a function of rates and mechanism. >i am going to follow your indications : wiring with 14awg with >a 15 Amp breaker , and if it pops up , i will change for a 20 Amp. > >i have a similar question for a Prestolite Power Pack rebuilt >Aroelectic 28volts HYH-5001ECH ; what would be the correct >wire sizing and breaker ? It's a WAG. Without specific engineering data for using this component in the proposed system, the conservative approach is duplicate what was in the original system and then take measurements during your fly-off to deduce whether or not modifications are called for. It's not likely that you're going to experience any big surprises. Even if you do, the worst thing that happens is an adjustment of wire size and protection. I get a lot of emails on this and similar topics. Many folks think that from first flight on a new airplane until s/n 100 rolls of the assembly line, few if any changes happen to the design. Our OBAM aircraft are no different with respect to verifying achievement of design goals . . . The potential for risk in sizing wire and fuses is very low. WAG it, verify it, then modify as necessary. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:48:29 AM PST US
    From: Sheldon Olesen <saolesen@sirentel.net>
    Subject: Fuel pressure sender testing
    Bob, I'm having trouble with my EIS 6000 fuel pressure reading. I have the proper scale, offset factors, and resistor entered into the EIS for a 0-30 setup. It reads a constant 10.3 psi regardless of whether or not the fuel pump is on or not. I've checked the continuity of the pressure sender across the terminals and it has continuity and a resistance of 6.2 ohms without the pump being on. However, I have no idea of what it is supposed to read and how to trouble shoot the problem. Some hints would be welcome. Thanks, Sheldon Olesen


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:58:14 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Using TurboCad
    From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
    Eric's Guaranteed Ten-Step Program for Learning TurboCAD (or any CAD program): Intro: 1) Almost all CAD programs are wonderful. The more expensive ones have only a tiny bit more than the cheapest (or the FREE ones). Any CAD is a million times better than no CAD. CAD, along with a web browser, email, a spreadsheet and a word processing program are just about required to express your technical talents nowadays. 2) Pareto's Principle: 20% of any tools will do 80% of the work, so you don't have to learn it all. Once you can do the basics, you will intuitively know there are additional tools for more complicated stuff. 3) If you really want to get good at mechanical drawing, get a copy of ANSI-Y14.5M Dimensioning and Tolerancing. The 1982 edition is $20 and 99% current today. The 1994 edition is about $90 on Amazon. This is not required for electrical schematics and other arts. 4) You'll need a good monitor, a decently fast computer (Especially for 3D), and a mouse. But you can use any printer, and the fancy devices you sometimes see in CAD setups are not needed. Basics: 5) The computer screen is a window to look through, not a piece of drawing paper to look upon. This simple idea often baffles new users. Understand this thoroughly or you will be lost. 6) CAD has no display scale. Print scales are only rarely followed (see point 5). A CAD information block never (or rarely) says "SCALE", unless the boss is an idiot. Learning it: 7) If you have a paper tutorial manual (remember the software has the manual in it, usually in a more usable form). Turn on the CAD program. Tear the covers off the manual and drop them into the trash. Then look at a page, understand and DO what is on it and drop it into the trash. Don't puzzle over anything...you can do that later. If a tool does not seem relevant, toss it into the trash. Very satisfying. 8) Turn off the CAD program and sleep on it. You'll get better at it as you sleep. 9) Remember that there is a simple way to do everything, and CAD has tools to make those simple task even easier (and more sophisticated), but you can always revert to doing things in simple ways. As a learning game--Draw a circle: It can be done with a center and one point on the circumference, Two semicircles, four quarter-circles, the letter "o", the zero, a three point circle, a freehand sketch...see how many you can come up with. 10) Start using it. Begin slowly and don't beat yourself, and don't push yourself if it is not fun--because you'll never learn it unless you enjoy it. Appendix: CAD provides an infinite variety of capabilities. Sometimes machined parts are drawn as CAD drawings, but a layer under the drawing can be the Bill of Materials, the revision history, design notes, whatever. A drawing can have a huge number of layers. A thing drawn in CAD can be saved and never has to be drawn again. CAD data can be input to automatic machinery to make a part. CAD can be drawn parametrically to make different sized parts. The applications are endless. Things can be drawn in CAD that simply CANNOT be drawn by hand. These vary from the simplest second-order curves to complex spirals, and 2d and 3d geometric forms, Bezier splines, log curves, etc. Finally: Have faith! Sell or give away your set of mechanical drawing tools, including Tee Square and drawing boards, templates and engineering rulers, drawing pens, triangles, french curves, centers, trammels, lettering guides, electric eraser, on and on....That day ain't never coming back. ps (Google "TurboCAD tutorial" NOT "turbo CAD tutorial"). -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222803#222803


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:54:06 AM PST US
    From: "Jef Vervoort" <jef.vervoortw@telenet.be>
    Subject: VOR interference with other wiring?
    Hello, I'm mounting a Bob Archer VOR antenna in the right wingtip. There will be also lights, nav. & landing & strobe. The strobes will be powered by a single power pack in the fuselage, using a shielded cable ( from Whelen). I have mounted a corrugated nylon conduit in the wings, and was planning to put all the wires, including the VOR coax, together in this conduit. Is this a good solution? I do not find accurate info in the archives. Thanks; Jef Vervoort, RV9A.


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:21:42 AM PST US
    From: "David M" <ainut@hiwaay.net>
    Subject: Re: Using TurboCad
    I've tried several CAD programs over the years, an own a version of TurboCAD. What I dislike intensely about these is the horrible user interface. None of them are intuitive. Just to layout a simple wall with adjoining wall is my initial test. All of them fail. <sigh> David M. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sam Hoskins To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:58 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Using TurboCad I have used various CAD systems over the years and when I retired I was seeking a good free one for home use. I came across a professional program called Siemens' Solid Edge Designer for 2D. I really like it. It uses something called "Relationship handles" which is useful, but difficult for me to describe here. The company makes it free to individuals and companies in the hope that you like it so much that you'll upgrade to their 3D system. It does work with all of Bob's drawings. The bad new is there is no manual available. The good news is the online help is adequate and, best yet, there is also ae e-mail list run by tech experts at SolidEdge. Sam Hoskins Murphysboro, IL On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 8:40 PM, B Tomm <fvalarm@rapidnet.net> wrote: To the Cad whizzes out there. I'm taking advantage of the bad weather and trying to "professionalize" my wiring diagrams using TurboCad. I'm starting to feel really old here cause I'm so frustrated with this TurboCad program. I really want to make it work and not get something else. I've imported a drawing from Bob's collection in DWG format. All I want to do is erase a few lines, re-draw them slightly elsewhere and copy a few fuses to add the extra circuits. Erase, copy, cut, paste, snap are eluding me even though there are a bazillion tools all around. Can I not just put a square around a section of the drawing, cut and paste etc? Jack Daniels is starting to tempt me! Bevan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 1/3/2009 2:14 PM


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:37:23 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Using TurboCad
    From: jaybannist@cs.com
    Try AutoCAD Lite.? I have been using AutoCAD for about 25 years and find it very intuitive for the basic functions. (I suppose that experience could have something to do with that ;>)? AutoCAD Lite has all the basic functions plus.? It is probably more expensive than others, but it WILL do what you want it to do. Jay in Dallas Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: David M <ainut@hiwaay.net> Sent: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 1:18 pm Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Using TurboCad I've tried several CAD programs over the years, an own a version of TurboCAD.? What I dislike intensely about these is the horrible user interface.? None of them are intuitive.? Just to layout a simple wall with adjoining wall is my initial test.? All of them fail.? <sigh> ? David M. ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Sam Hoskins Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:58 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Using TurboCad I have used various CAD systems over the years and when I retired I was seeking a good free one for home use.? I came across a professional program called Siemens' Solid Edge Designer for 2D.? I really like it.? It uses something called "Relationship handles" which is useful, but difficult for me to describe here. The company makes it free to individuals and companies in the hope that you like it so much that you'll upgrade to their 3D system.? It does work with all of Bob's drawings. The bad new is there is no manual available.? The good news is the online help is adequate and, best yet, there is also ae e-mail list run by tech experts at SolidEdge. Sam Hoskins Murphysboro, IL On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 8:40 PM, B Tomm <fvalarm@rapidnet.net> wrote: To the Cad whizzes out there. ? I'm taking advantage of the bad weather and trying to "professionalize" my wiring diagrams using TurboCad.? I'm starting to feel really old here cause I'm so frustrated with this TurboCad program.? I really want to make it work and not get something else.? I've imported a drawing from Bob's collection in DWG format.? All I want to do is erase a few lines, re-draw them slightly elsewhere and copy a few fuses to add the extra circuits.? Erase, copy, cut, paste, snap are eluding me?even though there are a bazillion tools all around.? Can I not just put a square around a section of the drawing, cut and paste etc? ? Jack Daniels is starting to tempt me! ? Bevan? ? href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c - 270.10.2/1873 - Release Date: 1/3/2009 2:14 PM ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com


    Message 11


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    Time: 01:11:09 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Using TurboCad
    From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
    Let's not make this a back-and-forth about which CAD program is best. TurboCAD is fine (and it's NOT even what I use...). ALL CAD programs are good, and the differences between them make comparisons difficult. Any first-time user might find the learning curve steep, but see my (above)suggestions. Simple programs are easy to use but limited, complex programs are harder to learn but powerful and expensive. But learn SOMETHING, and they all talk to each other...so what the heck. "....be sure to make a copy of everything before getting rid of it." --Samuel Goldwyn -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222834#222834


    Message 12


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    Time: 01:23:46 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Anything wrong with using a plier style
    crimper?
    From: rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US
    Hi Bob Thx. for the information you sent. I have been fooling with borrowed crimpers since your reply E-mail, some cheap, some not so cheap, and although I can get a semi OK crimp on #22 wire, I just wasn't happy. That's until just now. A local guy turned up at the airport and had an Amp 59250 tool that he purchased used off of E-Bay. It appears to be the exact same tool as you depict as "high priced tool" in: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html It works great on a single #22! Easy to use. End of story, I can borrow anytime I need. The reason it works better is the die is very well thought out where it contains the terminal from growing too wide. The other tools work OK on #20 wire, but the 59250 works well on both. Ron Parigoris >>I rounded up some ratcheting style crimping tools from airport folk >>and a homebuilder for crimping Red crimp on connectors from Stein >>(fast on and ring). >> >>Got hold of a Paladin tool with several sets of dies, and some no >>name non adjustable tool. >> >>The die sets for the Paladine: >>****Part number said for insulated terminals and had 3 colored dots >>including red >>****There was a set of dies with no part number but fit tool >>(perhaps from Stein??) and looked like for insulated terminals >>And a few others, one for uninsulated terminals and other >> >>First off no matter what the adjustment, if using 22 gauge wire, >>even with the dies completely bottomed, could not get as much a grip >>as i would like. I could semi make it better by splicing more wire >>and doubling it over to better fill hole. Problem was it still did >>not crimp wire terrific and the portion that was to crimp on the >>insulation for strain relief was too far away (too wide a die?) >>where it was only partially catching the metal in the terminals. All >>the terminals from Stein and Terminal Town and Mcmaster (double >>metal) appeared to be too short for tool. I tried all the dies I had >>and combinations. Not great success with the no name tool with fixed >>dies and is non adjustable. >> >>I could get an OK crimp, probably will work and with heat shrink >>support will probably be OK, but insulation was not captured >>properly and if i sliced open the crimp on the wire, you could see >>it is not as compact as would be nice. >> >>Then I pulled out an old and rusty Whitaker WC2850 tool, looks like >>a pair of pliers with several dies on it. >> >>After some practice I can make what I think is a very nice crimp, >>far better than what I could do with the other tools. >> >>*First I stripped twice what I need and double up tail to go into >> terminal >>*Then crimp with RARB die about 1/16" from the edge of terminal >>*Then use a part of tool called "A" which is kind of a half cylinder >>(feel here is important) and put a dimple on top of terminal where I >>just crimped. I tried to over crimp this step and if I go crazy >>where terminal in stead of being straight begins to bend, I can tear >>wire when pulled very hard because wire is mashed too much. I am >>pretty confident can repeat this dimple consistently. When I sliced >>practice terminals apart had a very compacted crimp without strands >>being deformed/mashed. Without dimple, crimp is acceptable in my >>mind for automobiles only, and places easy to get at with no moisture >> present. >>*Then use RARB to crimp wire insulation about 1/16" from edge, no >>hurting of insulation at all and wire is held pretty good. >> >>Anyone see any problems crimping like I describe? i could have >>stripped and crimped a dozen terminals in time it took me to write this. >> >>Ron Parigoris > > The physics for making a gas-tight connection between wire > and terminal is process-sensitive. The "ideal" crimped > junction puts sufficient force on the terminal to close > the cross-section of terminal and wire copper just to the > point that the terminal and wire strands become one piece > of metal. Too little mash, and voids in the joint allow > oxygen laden moisture to enter raising risk of failure > due to corrosion. Too much mash and strength of the > strands is weakened by reduction of cross-section thus > raising risk of failure under tension/vibration. See: > > http://aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html > > Dimple-crimps are for terminals going onto solid wire > only. See "Solistrand" terminals and tooling from AMP. > > You will note that all crimp tools suggested and/or > evaluated in our writing are free of "dimple" punches. > The PIDG style terminal is best applied with uniform > pressure offered by smooth bore dies. > > Of secondary concern is molding of the wire-grip to the > conductor just outside the joint. The terminal may have > too little volume in the closed condition for the amount > of plastic in the terminal's wire support insulation. > See: > > http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Terminals/JST_Samples_2.jpg > > These terminals were electrically okay when installed with > our favorite tools . . . but did not become part of our > inventory because we had no tools that would do a professional > looking installation. > > Ron, it's not possible to encourage or discourage use of the > tools you've cited without making a first-hand evaluation > of their performance under the guide-lines discussed in > the article above and these additional pieces found on > my website . . . > > http://aeroelectric.com/articles/faston3.pdf > > http://aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf > > Finally, on the subject of wire-joining, I'll remind > readers of this article published some years back > in Sport Aviation. The author didn't have a > clue about simple-ideas for the processes in > which he claimed considerable knowledged and skill. > > http://aeroelectric.com/articles/rules/review.html > > > Bob . . .


    Message 13


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    Time: 01:37:46 PM PST US
    Subject: Amp crimper 59250 question
    From: rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US
    The Amp crimper 59250 as seen in: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html has a four position adjustment. How is it best determined which position to select for a given wire/terminal? Thx. Ron Parigoris


    Message 14


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    Time: 01:46:29 PM PST US
    From: "Dennis & Anne Glaeser" <glaesers@wideopenwest.com>
    Subject: Re: VOR interference with other wiring?
    I did exactly that on my RV7A and have no problems whatsoever. Dennis Glaeser ----------------------------------- Hello, I'm mounting a Bob Archer VOR antenna in the right wingtip. There will be also lights, nav. & landing & strobe. The strobes will be powered by a single power pack in the fuselage, using a shielded cable ( from Whelen). I have mounted a corrugated nylon conduit in the wings, and was planning to put all the wires, including the VOR coax, together in this conduit. Is this a good solution? I do not find accurate info in the archives. Thanks; Jef Vervoort, RV9A.


    Message 15


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    Time: 03:08:30 PM PST US
    From: Phil Samuelian <psamuelian@charter.net>
    Subject: Re: MaxDim Group Buy Opportunity
    LAST CALL!!! All current orders for the MaxDim panel dimmer "Group Buy" will be shipped this week. If you're thinking about using the most sophisticated panel dimmer in your project, this would be the time to buy. Price guaranteed for the next 10 days... $128 each + $3 shipping (+ sales tax in CA). These dimmers are unparalleled in performance... NO heat, NO separate, bulky control unit. NO heatsink. Amazing 350W power control in a 1.25" diameter unit. This is a best-of-breed product. Mooney has specified these for all their new planes! (STC and PMA) 5-35VDC, 12.5Amps and around 1 ounce! Hook up power, ground, and lights (3 connections), 2 mounting holes to drill, and you're done. PLEASE CONTACT OFF-LIST psamuelian@charter.net and provide info: Your Name? How many MaxDim units? Your shipping address? (USA only, please) Your phone number? Please mention the "Aeroelectric MaxDim Group Buy" in the subject of your email. PayPal or other arrangements for payment. These are priced a few bucks above distribution to cover the shipping costs to me, and handling charges when redistributed to you. I recently installed 2 of these in my Cessna and they perform as advertised. Thanks! Phil RV7 tail (looking to buy wing kit), Cessna 177


    Message 16


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    Time: 04:45:24 PM PST US
    From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
    Subject: Using TurboCad
    Thanks for advice. I am downloading now and will give it a try. Bevan _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Hoskins Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 5:58 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Using TurboCad I have used various CAD systems over the years and when I retired I was seeking a good free one for home use. I came across a professional program called Siemens' <http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/velocity/solidedge/fre e2d/index.shtml> Solid Edge Designer for 2D. I really like it. It uses something called "Relationship handles" which is useful, but difficult for me to describe here. The company makes it free to individuals and companies in the hope that you like it so much that you'll upgrade to their 3D system. It does work with all of Bob's drawings. The bad new is there is no manual available. The good news is the online help is adequate and, best yet, there is also ae e-mail list run by tech experts at SolidEdge. Sam Hoskins Murphysboro, IL On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 8:40 PM, B Tomm <fvalarm@rapidnet.net> wrote: To the Cad whizzes out there. I'm taking advantage of the bad weather and trying to "professionalize" my wiring diagrams using TurboCad. I'm starting to feel really old here cause I'm so frustrated with this TurboCad program. I really want to make it work and not get something else. I've imported a drawing from Bob's collection in DWG format. All I want to do is erase a few lines, re-draw them slightly elsewhere and copy a few fuses to add the extra circuits. Erase, copy, cut, paste, snap are eluding me even though there are a bazillion tools all around. Can I not just put a square around a section of the drawing, cut and paste etc? Jack Daniels is starting to tempt me! Bevan




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