---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 01/16/09: 31 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:06 AM - What can I use to cover battery terminals? (rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US) 2. 04:37 AM - Re: What can I use to cover battery terminals? (Richard Girard) 3. 05:01 AM - Re: What can I use to cover battery terminals? (Dale Rogers) 4. 05:45 AM - Re: What can I use to cover battery terminals? (Bob Verwey) 5. 05:45 AM - Re: What can I use to cover battery terminals? () 6. 05:57 AM - Contactor Polarity () 7. 06:35 AM - Re: What can I use to cover battery terminals? (rampil) 8. 06:35 AM - Re: What's thoughts on Cool Amp? (pilot4pay) 9. 06:41 AM - Re: Contactor Polarity (rampil) 10. 07:00 AM - Re: [Probable SPAM] Re: Contactor Polarity () 11. 07:02 AM - Re: Contactor Polarity (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 07:06 AM - Re: What can I use to cover battery terminals? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 07:08 AM - Re: Z-11 + aux battery and diode bridge rectifier problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 07:37 AM - Re: What can I use to cover battery terminals? (rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US) 15. 07:50 AM - Re: What can I use to cover battery terminals? (rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US) 16. 08:38 AM - Re: Contactor Polarity () 17. 08:39 AM - E-Bus and switching (PaulR) 18. 09:12 AM - AMP CPC Series 2, HDP-20, D-sub machined pin crimper (Mike Cingari) 19. 09:32 AM - Re: E-Bus and switching (jaybannist@cs.com) 20. 10:14 AM - Re: AMP CPC Series 2, HDP-20, D-sub machined pin crimper (Tom Barter) 21. 10:48 AM - Re: What can I use to cover battery terminals? (John Ciolino) 22. 11:06 AM - Re: What can I use to cover battery terminals? (Richard Reynolds) 23. 11:12 AM - AMP/Tyco Style Connectors () 24. 11:16 AM - Re: E-Bus and switching (PaulR) 25. 12:04 PM - Re: Re: E-Bus and switching (jaybannist@cs.com) 26. 01:02 PM - Z-11 + aux battery and diode bridge rectifier (Paul Eckenroth) 27. 01:03 PM - Re: Re: E-Bus and switching (Greg Young) 28. 06:06 PM - Re: E-Bus and switching (Kevin Horton) 29. 06:07 PM - Re: E-Bus and switching (Kevin Horton) 30. 08:52 PM - Re: Re: E-Bus and switching (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 31. 08:59 PM - Re: AMP/Tyco Style Connectors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:06:24 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: What can I use to cover battery terminals? From: rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US I have an Odyssey PC545 battery. That battery uses 6MM screws to mount the positive and negative terminal to its brass lugs. There is only ~ .030" clearance between the bottom of the terminal and the battery case. I will be putting adhesive lined heat shrink on the terminal lapping onto the #4CC wire, but it will still leave plenty of metal exposed to create a momentary 1200 amp short, or at least 545 amps for 5 seconds. Those silicone terminal covers don't have a chance to fit into a .030" gap. I could mutilatethe silicone terminal covers, but it will not be a great fit but it will kinda work. I could put electrical tape covering the terminals, that will kinda work but a hack job. Anyone have any ideas for a more eloquent solution? See pictures #25 and #26: http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album266&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php Thx. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:37:41 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What can I use to cover battery terminals? From: Richard Girard Ron, On my Harley I use a sheet of reinforced rubber to cover the whole top of the battery, held on with a simple strap. Not elegant, but in 17 years it's never failed. Rick On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 1:47 AM, wrote: > I have an Odyssey PC545 battery. That battery uses 6MM screws to mount the > positive and negative terminal to its brass lugs. > > There is only ~ .030" clearance between the bottom of the terminal and the > battery case. > > I will be putting adhesive lined heat shrink on the terminal lapping onto > the #4CC wire, but it will still leave plenty of metal exposed to create a > momentary 1200 amp short, or at least 545 amps for 5 seconds. > > Those silicone terminal covers don't have a chance to fit into a .030" gap. > > I could mutilate the silicone terminal covers, but it will not be a great > fit but it will kinda work. > > I could put electrical tape covering the terminals, that will kinda work > but a hack job. > > Anyone have any ideas for a more eloquent solution? > > See pictures #25 and #26: > > http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album266&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php > > Thx. > Ron Parigoris > > * > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:01:43 AM PST US From: Dale Rogers Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What can I use to cover battery terminals? On 16-Jan-2008 rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US wrote: > I have an Odyssey PC545 battery. That battery uses 6MM screws to mount > the positive and negative terminal to its brass lugs. > > There is only ~ .030" clearance between the bottom of the terminal and > the battery case. > > I will be putting adhesive lined heat shrink on the terminal lapping > onto the #4CC wire, but it will still leave plenty of metal exposed to > create a momentary 1200 amp short, or at least 545 amps for 5 seconds. > > Those silicone terminal covers don't have a chance to fit into a .030" > gap. > > I could mutilate the silicone terminal covers, but it will not be a > great fit but it will kinda work. > > I could put electrical tape covering the terminals, that will kinda > work but a hack job. > > Anyone have any ideas for a more eloquent solution? > > See pictures #25 and #26: > http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album266&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php > > > Thx. > Ron Parigoris You might want to consider "doming" the case over the terminals. It can be done with the peen end of a ball-peen hammer, or you could use a more elegant solution with a tool made just for that task, such as: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=93539 (Most machine tool suppliers, such as Rutland, Travers, and Enco offer a similar item.) Dale R. COZY MkIV #0497 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:11 AM PST US From: "Bob Verwey" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What can I use to cover battery terminals? Use a piece of Tufnol sheet (phenolic)many thicknesses available, bonded to the top of the Batt box. I had the same problem. Works great.Bob Verwey ZU-DLW Only flying A35 Bonanza flying in Africa On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 9:47 AM, wrote: > I have an Odyssey PC545 battery. That battery uses 6MM screws to mount the > positive and negative terminal to its brass lugs. > > There is only ~ .030" clearance between the bottom of the terminal and the > battery case. > > I will be putting adhesive lined heat shrink on the terminal lapping onto > the #4CC wire, but it will still leave plenty of metal exposed to create a > momentary 1200 amp short, or at least 545 amps for 5 seconds. > > Those silicone terminal covers don't have a chance to fit into a .030" gap. > > I could mutilate the silicone terminal covers, but it will not be a great > fit but it will kinda work. > > I could put electrical tape covering the terminals, that will kinda work > but a hack job. > > Anyone have any ideas for a more eloquent solution? > > See pictures #25 and #26: > > http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album266&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php > > Thx. > Ron Parigoris > > * > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:11 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: What can I use to cover battery terminals? From: Thanks for the album shots Ron. That looks like a fun project. You guys do know that you can buy battery boxes for the Odyssey for about $35.00 right? Bolt on and go. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Rogers Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 8:00 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What can I use to cover battery terminals? On 16-Jan-2008 rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US wrote: > I have an Odyssey PC545 battery. That battery uses 6MM screws to mount > the positive and negative terminal to its brass lugs. > > There is only ~ .030" clearance between the bottom of the terminal and > the battery case. > > I will be putting adhesive lined heat shrink on the terminal lapping > onto the #4CC wire, but it will still leave plenty of metal exposed to > create a momentary 1200 amp short, or at least 545 amps for 5 seconds. > > Those silicone terminal covers don't have a chance to fit into a .030" > gap. > > I could mutilate the silicone terminal covers, but it will not be a > great fit but it will kinda work. > > I could put electrical tape covering the terminals, that will kinda > work but a hack job. > > Anyone have any ideas for a more eloquent solution? > > See pictures #25 and #26: > http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album266&op=modloa d&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php > > > Thx. > Ron Parigoris You might want to consider "doming" the case over the terminals. It can be done with the peen end of a ball-peen hammer, or you could use a more elegant solution with a tool made just for that task, such as: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=93539 (Most machine tool suppliers, such as Rutland, Travers, and Enco offer a similar item.) Dale R. COZY MkIV #0497 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:19 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Contactor Polarity From: I think this question was raised last week, but I could not find it via the search engine. For appearances I am planning to mount my contactors (3), ANL's, SD-8 capacitor/relay on a sheet of glossy carbon fiber bolted to the firewall. To make it look good it will require the contactors be properly arranged on the board. Does polarity (primary lugs) matter on the B & C contactors? I have both momentary and constant. Thanks, Glenn ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:48 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: What can I use to cover battery terminals? From: "rampil" Hey Ron, As I am sure you know, your Odyssey does not require a battery box. Just a waste of weight for a modern technology battery. You could simply put a thin sheet of lexan over the terminals, held on with a small dab of silastic. I would not do that however until you have finished troubleshooting your electrical system and avionics because you will be amazed at how many times you will want to disco the battery and reconnect 5 minutes later for testing. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225079#225079 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:57 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: What's thoughts on Cool Amp? From: "pilot4pay" While Bob and others have thoroughly covered the topic very well, I thought I might add personal experience with cool-amp. My job as an electrician for a major automobile manufacturer, I worked for most of my career in the body shops. We used cool-amp on resistance welding equipment connections. These connections, are subjected to current ranges from thousands to tens of thousands of amps of current. the necessity stems from the nature of the welding process. the "resistance" in resistance welding refers to the resistance of the junction of 2 or more body panels. that interface is measured in a few hundred micro-ohms, and passing huge ammounts of current through that small resistance generates the heat of fusion. The silver plating on the connections ensures that the heat is generated where we want a weld to take place, not , say at the transformer feeding weld gun. When repairs are made to connections, we would use the cool amp to re-plate a damaged connection. As maintenance budgets dwindled, the cool-amp ran out, we had to make repairs without it. What was important in the repaired connection became that the conductor connections surfaces needed to be as flat and clean as possible. as long as the mating surfaces were as high a quality as we could finish them, and tightened properly, they functioned just as well without the cool-amp. I highly doubt that cool-amp will add any measurable improvements in reliability for your home-builder applications. Save your money. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225080#225080 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:05 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Contactor Polarity From: "rampil" Glenn, Are you sure you want to use carbon fiber?? It is a conductor, but not good enough to serve as a common ground in a power circuit. You might be chasing ground loops until the end of time, unless you tie the things wanting to be connected together with thick buss cable and isolate the mounts that should not be grounded. Contactors should not have polarity in the power leads -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225081#225081 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:00:37 AM PST US Subject: RE: [Probable SPAM] AeroElectric-List: Re: Contactor Polarity From: Ira, The carbon fiber is just a mounting base for the contactors. I have a plastic airplane. I am planning to use buss bars to connect the contactors. Thanks, Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rampil Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 9:39 AM Subject: [Probable SPAM] AeroElectric-List: Re: Contactor Polarity Glenn, Are you sure you want to use carbon fiber?? It is a conductor, but not good enough to serve as a common ground in a power circuit. You might be chasing ground loops until the end of time, unless you tie the things wanting to be connected together with thick buss cable and isolate the mounts that should not be grounded. Contactors should not have polarity in the power leads -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225081#225081 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:39 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Contactor Polarity At 07:55 AM 1/16/2009, you wrote: >I think this question was raised last week, but I could not find it >via the search engine. > >For appearances I am planning to mount my contactors (3), ANL's, >SD-8 capacitor/relay on a sheet of glossy carbon fiber bolted to the >firewall. To make it look good it will require the contactors be >properly arranged on the board. Does polarity (primary lugs) matter >on the B & C contactors? I have both momentary and constant. No. The contactors themselves are not polarity critical, only the diodes you may have to put on the outside. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:26 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What can I use to cover battery terminals? At 01:47 AM 1/16/2009, you wrote: >I have an Odyssey PC545 battery. That battery uses 6MM screws to >mount the positive and negative terminal to its brass lugs. > >There is only ~ .030" clearance between the bottom of the terminal >and the battery case. > >I will be putting adhesive lined heat shrink on the terminal lapping >onto the #4CC wire, but it will still leave plenty of metal exposed >to create a momentary 1200 amp short, or at least 545 amps for 5 seconds. > >Those silicone terminal covers don't have a chance to fit into a .030" gap. > >I could mutilate the silicone terminal covers, but it will not be a >great fit but it will kinda work. > >I could put electrical tape covering the terminals, that will kinda >work but a hack job. > >Anyone have any ideas for a more eloquent solution? > >See pictures #25 and #26: >http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album266&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php > >Thx. >Ron Parigoris] Why a battery box at all? The RG batteries are quite happy strapped down in a simple tray. Capture the footprint in tray with say 1/2" tall sides and strap down with a couple of 200# plus webbing straps, either one of which would hold the battery in place with 10G acceleration. Alternatively, dishing the top of the box is the "legacy" approach. Our rules of thumb for clearances in the TC aircraft call for .25" min clearance for equipment items mounted RIGIDLY in the airframe and .50" is better. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:31 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-11 + aux battery and diode bridge rectifier problem At 03:57 PM 1/15/2009, you wrote: >I have an RV9A wired as per Z-11 with a 7A aux battery as an EFIS keep alive >during start. This has worked well for 200 hours. Lately the EFIS has been >graying out during engine starts which implies that the aux battery is being >tapped for other than the electronics during engine start. > >The batteries are isolated using two diode bridge rectifiers from B&C. The >E bus which feed the EFIS and other electronics gets it's power from the >main bus through one of the bridge rectifiers. Both of the batteries power >the main bus through individual contactors. The E bus is also powered >through the second bridge rectifier by both batteries direct and then >controlled by the E bus switch. Normal start is main battery contactor on, >aux battery contactor off, and E bus switch on. This should isolate the aux >battery to the E bus until the aux battery contactor is turned on after >engine start. > >I have checked both diode assemblies to see that they are allowing current >to flow in the correct direction and they are not allowing backfeed. >Everything checks out properly using the voltmeter. However it seems to me >that the problem must lie with the diodes since they are the only link >between the batteries with the aux battery contactor off. Can a diode >function correctly under low load conditions and then temporarily break down >under start conditions. > >Any ideas as to how I should proceed. Please keep in mind that I have read >the AeroElectric Connection and wired my RV9 but have no formal electrical >knowledge beyond this. Diodes don't "go bad" in ways that would produce the symptoms you're seeing. The only thing that comes to mind is that the aux battery isn't being properly charged or has departed for the happy hunting grounds. You need to load and cap check the battery. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:32 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: What can I use to cover battery terminals? From: rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US Hi longg Thx. for the reply. "You guys do know that you can buy battery boxes for the Odyssey for about $35.00 right? Bolt on and go." Yup we looked long and hard at premade boxes. The shape of the fuse floor of the Europa is torture to bond to as it is a declining cone, only thin glass layer over foam on inside ~ 1/8" thick is not conducive to bolt to. We could have set the aluminium box in Expancel/Aeropoxy then BID/Redux the box to floor, but a few reasons we *descided to scratch build: *ease of bonding *ease of making changes *can easily strengthen if needed *viabration dampening with form fit to battery *radiused corners very conducive for 4 Balsa angled legs that are not just light, but easy to shape and if ever need to move battery, easy t cut 3 BID and break Balsa and move Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What can I use to cover battery terminals? From: rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US Hi Bob "Why a battery box at all?" I agree, my "box" is missing the top half, and will be missing about 1/2 of the bottom. Guess should have called it a battery tray. You can see from picture that the terminals are completly exposed. I know when working in the cramped quarters of the aft fuse, a wrench or something metalic is going to short the battery, and besides branding me with a red hot tool, the battery is going to shower me with AGM soaked goo: http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album266&id=Bat11&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php Ron P. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:00 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Contactor Polarity From: Bob, So if I use the B & C jobs (they come with diodes), I will need to switch them accordingly, yes? Thanks Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 10:02 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Contactor Polarity At 07:55 AM 1/16/2009, you wrote: >I think this question was raised last week, but I could not find it >via the search engine. > >For appearances I am planning to mount my contactors (3), ANL's, >SD-8 capacitor/relay on a sheet of glossy carbon fiber bolted to the >firewall. To make it look good it will require the contactors be >properly arranged on the board. Does polarity (primary lugs) matter >on the B & C contactors? I have both momentary and constant. No. The contactors themselves are not polarity critical, only the diodes you may have to put on the outside. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:41 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: E-Bus and switching From: "PaulR" I'm in the process of plagerizing Bob's Z-11 for my VFR 9A and have a question for the group. I'm pretty new to this wiring business so please be gentle. I've done the search thing to no avail. Is there a reason that the e-bus couldn't be powered through a switch like a 1-3 with power from either the main bus or the always hot bus feeding the e-bus? This would negate the need for the diode, I think. I'm sure this has been asked before, but I couldn't find a reference to it. For what it's worth, I really enjoy learning about this part of the build and this is the best place I've found for that. Thanks -------- Paul Rose N417PR (res) RV-9A Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225109#225109 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:38 AM PST US From: Mike Cingari Subject: AeroElectric-List: AMP CPC Series 2, HDP-20, D-sub machined pin crimper Does anyone know of a high quality crimper that will work with the AMP CPC Series 2 (AMP part # 205089-1 & 205090-1), HDP-20 d-sub machined pins and sockets? Thanks for your help, Mike ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:38 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: E-Bus and switching From: jaybannist@cs.com Paul, I'm not an expert in airplane electronics, but I=99m sure you can do a lmost anything you want with switches. I have a toy train setup for the grandkids that has four track switches. I can set the track up to do some pretty complex routes. In order to make the train do what the kids want, I can stop the train, figu re out how to set the switches, set them and run the train to see if I guessed right. Your endurance bus could be more properly called an emergency bus. Do you w ant to go through a switch puzzle routine during an emergency? Remember that you can=99t just =9Cstop the train=9D long enough to do an ana lysis. When things go haywire, the diode arrangement allows you to get that e-bus on line and prevent back- feeding the main bus by flipping only one switch. You can=99t get much simple r than that. I recommend that you stay with an arrangement that Bob has proven to be work able, =C2-simple and reliable. Jay in Dallas -----Original Message----- From: PaulR Sent: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:36 am Subject: AeroElectric-List: E-Bus and switching I'm in the process of plagerizing Bob's Z-11 for my VFR 9A and have a questi on for the group. I'm pretty new to this wiring business so please be gentle. I've done the search thing to no avail. I s there a reason that the e-bus couldn't be powered through a switch like a 1-3 with power from either the main bus or the always hot bus feeding the e-bus? This would negate the need for the diode, I think. I'm sure this has been asked before, but I couldn't find a reference to it. For what it's worth, I really enjoy learning about this part of the build an d this is the best place I've found for that. Thanks -------- Paul Rose N417PR (res) RV-9A ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:47 AM PST US From: "Tom Barter" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: AMP CPC Series 2, HDP-20, D-sub machined pin crimper Mike, The Daniels AFM8 crimper (Mil. P/N M22520/2-01) does a superb job on those pins. You will need the Daniels K13 (Mil. P/N M22520/2-08) positioner to go with it. I recently purchased the crimper on e-bay for under $40.00. Steinair has the positioners if you do not get the correct one with the crimper frame. Tom Barter Kesley, IA Avid Magnum - wiring soon -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Cingari Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 11:09 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: AMP CPC Series 2, HDP-20, D-sub machined pin crimper Does anyone know of a high quality crimper that will work with the AMP CPC Series 2 (AMP part # 205089-1 & 205090-1), HDP-20 d-sub machined pins and sockets? Thanks for your help, Mike Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 6:52 AM ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:04 AM PST US From: "John Ciolino" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What can I use to cover battery terminals? Ron, Just a thought--why not construct a L shaped piece of lexan or other plastic. Screw one leg of the L to the top face of the battery hold down bar and use the other leg to create a shield covering the terminal. It would not encapsulate the terminal but should keep an errant wench from making contact. It would be an easy fiberglass lay-up; but I don't know if fiberglass is a conductor or not. Others can chime in on that. John Ciolino -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 10:35 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What can I use to cover battery terminals? > > Hi Bob > > "Why a battery box at all?" > > I agree, my "box" is missing the top half, and will be missing about 1/2 > of the bottom. > > Guess should have called it a battery tray. > > You can see from picture that the terminals are completly exposed. I know > when working in the cramped quarters of the aft fuse, a wrench or > something metalic is going to short the battery, and besides branding me > with a red hot tool, the battery is going to shower me with AGM soaked > goo: > > http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album266&id=Bat11&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php > > Ron P. > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:57 AM PST US From: Richard Reynolds Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What can I use to cover battery terminals? I used T&B Adhesive Insulating Pads for Connectors obtained from the aviation section (electrical) of Lowes, Home Depot, etc These "mastic" pads are about 3" x 5" and 1/8" thick used to insulate big electrical connectors. Cut the pad big enough to cover the terminal and press/mold it around the terminal. It can be used two or three times. It does stick to itself. Richard Reynolds Norfolk, VA RV-6A 550 hrs ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:50 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: AMP/Tyco Style Connectors From: I'm brand new to these type of connectors. Couple of questions... Ok, once I know which type of receptacle/socket set I want, the description tells me shell size and no. of contacts.. 1. How do I know what wire size it accommodates? 2. How do I know what size/type pins to buy to fit the connector? How wide of a variation exists? 3. How do I know which pins to buy to fit my wire size? 4. There seems to be a lot of moving parts with this stuff. Do they sell entire assemblies where I just crimp and go? I suppose I could just drill a 1" hole in the firewall and wrap some fire-sleeve around everything and call it a day, but I want to look professional. I'm sure there are hidden codes somewhere I'm just not looking. Excuse my ignorance. An example. I would like to buy a coupling to mate 4 contacts which are all 12-14 AWG wire. How do I determine which of these 3 million connectors I should use? I am targeting the CPC Series 1 type ala... https://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?SKU=5121105&MPN= 206 708-1&R=5121105&SEARCH=5121105&DESC 6708-1 Thanks in advance. Glenn ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:57 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: E-Bus and switching From: "PaulR" Jay, I appreciate your answer, but if I'm reading the Z-11 diagram correctly, when I switch the master contactor off to reduce the load, I still have to flip a switch to turn the alternate power on to the e-bus. What I'm suggesting is that switch that gets moved after shutting down the master is simply a switch to change where the power comes from. Single Pole double throw, I believe is the terminology. -------- Paul Rose N417PR (res) RV-9A Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225144#225144 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:18 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: E-Bus and switching From: jaybannist@cs.com Paul, As I said before, I am not an expert in these things, but here is my take on it:? If you have a need to activate the e-bus, I would assume that something in the main bus system had gone wrong, possibly already de-energizing the contactor.? It could be a blown crowbar or even failure of the master switch. The second switch eliminates that single point of failure.? The first action would be to flip the e-bus switch, then decide if you need to turn the master off.? I would hesitate to combine an emergency switch with one that might be involved in whatever problem is occuring. Jay in Dallas -----Original Message----- From: PaulR Sent: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 1:14 pm Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: E-Bus and switching Jay, I appreciate your answer, but if I'm reading the Z-11 diagram correctly, when I switch the master contactor off to reduce the load, I still have to flip a switch to turn the alternate power on to the e-bus. What I'm suggesting is that switch that gets moved after shutting down the master is simply a switch to change where the power comes from. Single Pole double throw, I believe is the terminology. -------- Paul Rose N417PR (res) RV-9A Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225144#225144 ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:02:31 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-11 + aux battery and diode bridge rectifier From: Paul Eckenroth Bob Thanks for the reply. The aux battery supports the Ebus on it's own which implies that the battery is sufficient. It is only when the starter is engaged that the voltage is pulled down and the EFIS reboots so there must be a connection to the main battery somewhere that is only activated when the starter is engaged. I'll disconnect the diodes and run the Ebus only from the aux battery and see if that makes a difference. Any other suggestions are welcome. Paul ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:01 PM PST US From: "Greg Young" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: E-Bus and switching The diode allows the e-bus to get power from both the main and aux batteries and prevent backfeeding the aux battery to the main bus. The e-bus switch controls the feed from the aux battery to the e-bus and is limited to something like 8-10 amps that a switch can easily handle. If you replace the diode with a crossfeed switch, it will need to stay closed to allow main power to feed the e-bus. If you also have the e-bus switch closed a failure in the main battery/bus would start sucking power from the aux battery. If you don't notice it fast enough you could drain the aux battery. If the e-bus switch is open instead, then the ebus will lose power until you kill the master, kill the crossfeed and close the e-bus switch. With the diode all the critical stuff on the e-bus maintains power without forcing you to take the right actions, in the right sequence at the right time. Why break a sweat when a <$30 diode prevents it? Regards, Greg Young > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of PaulR > Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 1:14 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: E-Bus and switching > > --> > > Jay, > I appreciate your answer, but if I'm reading the Z-11 diagram > correctly, when I switch the master contactor off to reduce > the load, I still have to flip a switch to turn the alternate > power on to the e-bus. What I'm suggesting is that switch > that gets moved after shutting down the master is simply a > switch to change where the power comes from. Single Pole > double throw, I believe is the terminology. > > -------- > Paul Rose > N417PR (res) > RV-9A > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:38 PM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: E-Bus and switching On 16-Jan-09, at 11:36 , PaulR wrote: > > > > I'm in the process of plagerizing Bob's Z-11 for my VFR 9A and have > a question for the group. I'm pretty new to this wiring business so > please be gentle. I've done the search thing to no avail. > > Is there a reason that the e-bus couldn't be powered through a > switch like a 1-3 with power from either the main bus or the always > hot bus feeding the e-bus? This would negate the need for the > diode, I think. I suspect that this switch would remove main bus power before it supplied the hot bus power. Thus the e-bus would lose power during the transition, which would cause any devices powered from that bus to reboot. That may or may not be important, depending on exactly what you have on that bus. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (Grounded) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:49 PM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: E-Bus and switching On 16-Jan-09, at 21:03 , Kevin Horton wrote: > On 16-Jan-09, at 11:36 , PaulR wrote: > >> > >> >> I'm in the process of plagerizing Bob's Z-11 for my VFR 9A and have >> a question for the group. I'm pretty new to this wiring business >> so please be gentle. I've done the search thing to no avail. >> >> Is there a reason that the e-bus couldn't be powered through a >> switch like a 1-3 with power from either the main bus or the always >> hot bus feeding the e-bus? This would negate the need for the >> diode, I think. > > > I suspect that this switch would remove main bus power before it > supplied the hot bus power. Thus the e-bus would lose power during > the transition, which would cause any devices powered from that bus > to reboot. That may or may not be important, depending on exactly > what you have on that bus. Drat - I hit Send too soon. Also, this arrangement makes the switch a single failure that can kill all power sources to the e-bus. This may or may not be a problem, depending on the consequences of losing all items on the e-bus. -- Kevin Horton Ottawa, Canada ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:05 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: E-Bus and switching At 01:14 PM 1/16/2009, you wrote: > >Jay, >I appreciate your answer, but if I'm reading the Z-11 diagram correctly, >when I switch the master contactor off to reduce the load, I still >have to flip a switch to turn the alternate power on to the >e-bus. What I'm suggesting is that switch that gets moved after >shutting down the master is simply a switch to change where the >power comes from. Single Pole double throw, I believe is the terminology. Sources for the endurance bus was crafted so that no single failure (like the single spdt switch) would deprive the e-bus of power . . . and no single component failure has multiple effects on system performance. Some folks have wired as you've suggested . . . but there IS a reason for the architecture as published. It's your airplane. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:32 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: AMP/Tyco Style Connectors At 01:11 PM 1/16/2009, you wrote: >Im brand new to these type of connectors. Couple of questions > >Ok, once I know which type of receptacle/socket >set I want, the description tells me shell size and no. of contacts.. > >1. How do I know what wire size it accommodates? It's in the specs for the connnector. Go to the manufacturer's website and get the specs. >2. How do I know what size/type pins to >buy to fit the connector? How wide of a variation exists? >3. How do I know which pins to buy to fit my wire size? >4. There seems to be a lot of moving >parts with this stuff. Do they sell entire >assemblies where I just crimp and go? Most military spec'd connectors come with a full compliment of pins in the bag. Most commercial connectors are sold as shells and loose pins. Getting the right pins comes from reading the mfgr's specs. For example, see the catalogs from ITT-Cannon at: http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/ITT_Cannon/ and dsubs from Positronics at: http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/Positronic/HDC_Series.pdf > > >I suppose I could just drill a 1 hole in the >firewall and wrap some fire-sleeve around >everything and call it a day, but I want to look professional. > > >Im sure there are hidden codes somewhere Im >just not looking. Excuse my ignorance. > > >An example. > >I would like to buy a coupling to mate 4 >contacts which are all 12-14 AWG wire. How do I >determine which of these 3 million connectors I >should use? I am targeting the CPC Series 1 type ala > >https://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?SKU=5121105&MPN 6708-1&R=5121105&SEARCH=5121105&DESC 6708-1 To come through the firewall? The only connectors qualified to bring wires through firewalls are stainless steel in construction and probably more expensive than you want to consider. The BIG guys bring stuff through the firewall like these pictures taken on the Bonanza and Baron assembly line: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Tech_Tips/Firewall_Penetration/firewall.html Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ----------------------------------------) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.