Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:44 AM - Re: Measuring actual system current (Sam Hoskins)
2. 05:18 AM - Re: Measuring actual system current (Ken)
3. 05:48 AM - Re: Comic Book for Crimping TNC Connectors (Bret Smith)
4. 05:49 AM - Re: Measuring actual system current (Sam Hoskins)
5. 06:16 AM - Engine ground on RV 10 (James H Nelson)
6. 06:50 AM - Re: Engine ground on RV 10 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 08:06 AM - Re: z-14 ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 08:06 AM - Re: Engine ground on RV 10 (Vernon Smith)
9. 08:16 AM - Revision 12 Z-figures (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 08:24 AM - Re: Engine ground on RV 10 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 08:57 AM - Re: Engine ground on RV 10 (Vernon Smith)
12. 12:12 PM - Re: Engine ground on RV 10 (Rogers, Bob J.)
13. 04:09 PM - Re: z-14 ? (TimRhod@aol.com)
14. 04:14 PM - Re: z-14 ? (TimRhod@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Measuring actual system current |
That sounds good. I can measure one circuit at a time, i.e. ignition coil
circuit, fuel injector circuit, etc.
Thanks to all who replied.
Sam Hoskins
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 9:35 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 08:31 AM 2/9/2009, you wrote:
>
> Is there a way to measure the actual current draw of a system? I finally
> got my electrically dependent engine started ( www.samhoskins.blogspot.com)
> yesterday and I am using a version of Z-19/RB with a B&C 30A permemant
> magnet alternator. I have the primary battery installed and a Dynon D180
> EFIS/EMS.
>
> I would like to be able to determine the real (not estimated) current draw
> of the system. Once I know that, I will select the appropriate back-up
> battery, trying to keep it as light as possible.
>
> There is an ammeter installed, but I don't think that would help for this
> data collection. Does anyone have any suggestions how I might go about
> this?
>
>
> If you have breakers, then open the breaker that supplies
> the load of interest and clip an ammeter across the open
> breaker. If you have fuses, pull the fuse and clip the
> meter between the fat power stud at the end of the fuseholder
> and the other end to the output tab for that fuse.
>
> Even the cheapest multimeter you can find will do for
> this task.
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Test_Equipment/tenma1.jpg
>
> Harbor Freight sells something like this for about $3 on
> sale . . . regularly $9 I think.
>
> For your task, I recommend you cut the probes off of the
> test leads and install alligator clips with rubber booties
> over them so that you can do "clip on" connections that
> will stay in place while you manipulate ship's accessories
> taking measurements.
>
> If you're interested in e-bus loads, clip the mulitmeter
> across an open e-bus alternate feed switch with the
> battery master OFF. This will get you the total e-bus
> load which is quite useful for adjusting battery size.
>
> Remember that a battery's useful capacity goes DOWN as
> load increases. A 17 a.h. battery is good for that
> amount with a 20 hour discharge rate. When you hang
> say a 4A e-bus load on it, you won't get the full
> 17 a.h. . . . it will be more like 13-14 a.h.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Measuring actual system current |
Maybe not.
A digital amp meter can give inaccurate readings when measuring the
short current pulses that occur on these circuits. And the current will
vary with rpm. Might be OK but I would trust an analog meter more if I
wanted average current for sizing the alternator. For sizing wires and
fuses, I measured the resistance of the associated coil and calculated
the peak current. The wire sizes and fuses that were used in the
automobile then made sense.
Ken
Sam Hoskins wrote:
> That sounds good. I can measure one circuit at a time, i.e. ignition
> coil circuit, fuel injector circuit, etc.
>
> Thanks to all who replied.
>
> Sam Hoskins
> www.samhoskins.blogspot.com <http://www.samhoskins.blogspot.com>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Comic Book for Crimping TNC Connectors |
Thank you kindly, sir.
Bret
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Comic Book for Crimping TNC Connectors
At 07:47 PM 2/10/2009, you wrote:
Bob, anyone, does anyone have any idea of the lengths to trim the
RG-400 coax for an AMP TNC connector? This connector is required to
install the GPS antenna for the Garmin 430W.
It's the same as the BNC. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/AMP_Tyco/TNC_Installation.pd
f
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Measuring actual system current |
I have an old favorite analog Triplett meter that might be just the trick.
Sam
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 7:19 AM, Ken <klehman@albedo.net> wrote:
>
> Maybe not.
> A digital amp meter can give inaccurate readings when measuring the short
> current pulses that occur on these circuits. And the current will vary with
> rpm. Might be OK but I would trust an analog meter more if I wanted average
> current for sizing the alternator. For sizing wires and fuses, I measured
> the resistance of the associated coil and calculated the peak current. The
> wire sizes and fuses that were used in the automobile then made sense.
> Ken
>
> Sam Hoskins wrote:
>
>> That sounds good. I can measure one circuit at a time, i.e. ignition coil
>> circuit, fuel injector circuit, etc.
>>
>> Thanks to all who replied.
>>
>> Sam Hoskins
>> www.samhoskins.blogspot.com <http://www.samhoskins.blogspot.com>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Engine ground on RV 10 |
Vernan,
Run a #6 wire from the forest of tabs directly to the battery
neg. term. That gives you a good source of electrons for your equipment.
Then, run a braided cable from the negative term of the battery directly
to the case of the engine. This gives you two wires to hook up to the
negative terminal of the battery. Basically, you have two wires from the
positive terminal. One is the "keep alive" wire and the other is the
main wire to the starter solenoid ect. Do not use the stainless steel
firewall as a current carrier.
Jim
____________________________________________________________
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Engine ground on RV 10 |
At 11:03 PM 2/10/2009, you wrote:
>Bob,
>Thanks for the response. Got it, two braided jumper straps. That's
>one less thing to obsess over!
That's ONE braided jumper strap (or 2AWG welding cable
with terminals and heat-shrink) and as many thin, flat, sheet
metal bonding straps as you have shock mounts (usually
4).
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 7
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At 10:26 PM 2/10/2009, you wrote:
>
>To Bob Nuckols
>
> I have a Velocity with a Z-14 wire configuration. I have duel
> light speed electronic ignitions wired directly to the two
> respective batteries . In the event of a dead battery how do you
> get the dead battery contactor closed with the other system so you
> can charge the dead battery which keeps its respective electric
> ignition going. I know there is a solution because you gave it to
> me a few years ago and I was able to do the following
> . Recently I had a dead auxillary battery due to leaving on the
> pitot heat. I started the engine with main battery and was able
> to close the auxillary contactor with power from the main
> system. I believe this was from a modification you had suggested
> to me when I wired the system. I can't remember what the
> modification was. Could you repeat it for me? I love this
> system because I was facing a long X-country flight and I was able
> to still go due to still having one good battery and two
> alternators. Love the redundancy!!! Fantastic!!!
I'm pleased that the design goals for this system
proved useful to you. The data you're asking about
is Figure Z-33 which you can download at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z33A.pdf
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 8
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| Subject: | Engine ground on RV 10 |
Bob=2C
The RV-10 has a ground lug welded to the engine mount.
Could I run one cable from the engine case to the this lug=2C and one cable
from the engine case to the ground forest on the firewall? Thus eliminatin
g the bonding straps around the lord mounts.
Vern Smith> Date: Wed=2C 11 Feb 2009 08:47:29 -0600> To: aeroelectric-list@
matronics.com> From: nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> Subject: RE: AeroElectr
"Robert L. Nuckolls=2C III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>> > At 11:03 PM
2/10/2009=2C you wrote:> >Bob=2C> > > >Thanks for the response. Got it=2C
two braided jumper straps. That's > >one less thing to obsess over!> > That
's ONE braided jumper strap (or 2AWG welding cable> with terminals and heat
-shrink) and as many thin=2C flat=2C sheet> metal bonding straps as you hav
e shock mounts (usually> 4).> > > Bob . . .> > ----------------------------
------------)> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )> ( a thing wrong=2C g
ives it a superficial )> ( appearance of being right . . . )> ( )> ( -Thoma
================> > >
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Revision 12 Z-figures |
I think I'm ready to release the Revision 12 set
of Z-figures. The individual AutoCAD files and
Adobe pdf files have been uploaded to:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS
The proposed published version of the Z-figures
has been posted to:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Rev12A/AppZ_Rev12A.pdf
If any of you sharp-eyed readers find something in
in Appendix Z that begs fixing, I'd appreciate
a heads-up.
I'm going to hunker over the keyboard and get the
chapter on batteries updated.
The 'Connection will be offered in both paper and
e-book versions as of Rev12. Andy Gold at Aircraft
Technical Books has been offering a makeshift e-book
for a couple of years. I've decided jump into the
electronic publications age.
Folks with R11 books will want to download a new
Appendix Z, a new Chapter 2 and a new cover to bring
their books up to date . . . but don't do it until
the holy-watered versions are announced in the
What's New feature of our website.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Engine ground on RV 10 |
At 10:04 AM 2/11/2009, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>The RV-10 has a ground lug welded to the engine mount.
>Could I run one cable from the engine case to the this lug, and one
>cable from the engine case to the ground forest on the firewall?
>Thus eliminating the bonding straps around the lord mounts.
About anything you want to do will function.
We can argue/discuss a host of relatively
small issues with equally small cause/effect
scenarios.
Bottom line is that hundreds of thousands of TC
aircraft have used a variety of combinations
for getting crankcases grounded. While the
stainless firewall sheet is not a GOOD conductor,
it's adequate for a very few accessories that
depended on it for ground that includes things
like contactors, voltage regulators, accessory
control relays, etc. The notion of tying the
forest of tabs to the crankcase with a fat
wire is to GROUND the forest of tabs, not
ground the engine.
The minimum impedance path from crankcase
to structure is through the engine mount
bolts at the corners of the firewall.
Since you've decided to use the fuselage
as a battery return conductor, then our
design goal might be to minimize current
on across the firewall sheet.
How about this? Leave the shock mounts alone
and add a fat-wire jumper from the forest
of tabs down to the most solid structure
available under the floorboards. I think
I like that better. This isn't going to
reduce the firewall sheet currents to zero
but they'll become a small fraction of the
total during engine cranking.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 11
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| Subject: | Engine ground on RV 10 |
Thanks Bob=2C
The extra information makes sense and helps greatly.
Vern
do not archive> Date: Wed=2C 11 Feb 2009 10:23:44 -0600> To: aeroelectric-l
ist@matronics.com> From: nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> Subject: RE: AeroEl
ectric-List: Engine ground on RV 10> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted
by: "Robert L. Nuckolls=2C III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>> > At 10:0
4 AM 2/11/2009=2C you wrote:> >Bob=2C> >> >The RV-10 has a ground lug welde
d to the engine mount.> >Could I run one cable from the engine case to the
this lug=2C and one > >cable from the engine case to the ground forest on t
he firewall? > >Thus eliminating the bonding straps around the lord mounts.
> > About anything you want to do will function.> We can argue/discuss a ho
st of relatively> small issues with equally small cause/effect> scenarios.>
> Bottom line is that hundreds of thousands of TC> aircraft have used a va
riety of combinations> for getting crankcases grounded. While the> stainles
s firewall sheet is not a GOOD conductor=2C> it's adequate for a very few a
ccessories that> depended on it for ground that includes things> like conta
ctors=2C voltage regulators=2C accessory> control relays=2C etc. The notion
of tying the> forest of tabs to the crankcase with a fat> wire is to GROUN
D the forest of tabs=2C not> ground the engine.> > The minimum impedance pa
th from crankcase> to structure is through the engine mount> bolts at the c
orners of the firewall.> > Since you've decided to use the fuselage> as a b
attery return conductor=2C then our> design goal might be to minimize curre
nt> on across the firewall sheet.> > How about this? Leave the shock mounts
alone> and add a fat-wire jumper from the forest> of tabs down to the most
solid structure> available under the floorboards. I think> I like that bet
ter. This isn't going to> reduce the firewall sheet currents to zero> but t
hey'll become a small fraction of the> total during engine cranking.> > > >
Bob . . .> > ----------------------------------------)> ( . . . a long hab
it of not thinking )> ( a thing wrong=2C gives it a superficial )> ( appear
ance of being right . . . )> ( )> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )> ----------------
===> > >
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Engine ground on RV 10 |
Bob Nuckolls,
You said below that stainless firewall sheet is not a GOOD conductor.
Will you please quantify that statement? How much worse is it than
2024-T3 aluminum?
I have a battery in the tail of my airplane that is grounded through the
airframe, but the forest of ground tabs is on the stainless steel
firewall. Does that mean that I need to run a fat wire from the forest
of tabs attach bolt on the stainless steel firewall to some portion of
the aluminum airframe?
Thanks,
Bob J. Rogers
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:24 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Engine ground on RV 10
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 10:04 AM 2/11/2009, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>The RV-10 has a ground lug welded to the engine mount.
>Could I run one cable from the engine case to the this lug, and one
>cable from the engine case to the ground forest on the firewall?
>Thus eliminating the bonding straps around the lord mounts.
About anything you want to do will function.
We can argue/discuss a host of relatively
small issues with equally small cause/effect
scenarios.
Bottom line is that hundreds of thousands of TC
aircraft have used a variety of combinations
for getting crankcases grounded. While the
stainless firewall sheet is not a GOOD conductor,
it's adequate for a very few accessories that
depended on it for ground that includes things
like contactors, voltage regulators, accessory
control relays, etc. The notion of tying the
forest of tabs to the crankcase with a fat
wire is to GROUND the forest of tabs, not
ground the engine.
The minimum impedance path from crankcase
to structure is through the engine mount
bolts at the corners of the firewall.
Since you've decided to use the fuselage
as a battery return conductor, then our
design goal might be to minimize current
on across the firewall sheet.
How about this? Leave the shock mounts alone
and add a fat-wire jumper from the forest
of tabs down to the most solid structure
available under the floorboards. I think
I like that better. This isn't going to
reduce the firewall sheet currents to zero
but they'll become a small fraction of the
total during engine cranking.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 13
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Bob thanks for the Z-33 that shows duel power to contactors. This has lead
to another question. I have S701-1 contactors as shown in Z-14. Can these be
wired for duel power sources or due I need to replace them with S701-2 type
contactors. Thanks Tim
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Message 14
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Bob thanks for the Z-33 that shows duel power to contactors. This has lead
to another question. I have S701-1 type contactors as shown in Z-14. My
contactors only have one small stud that closes the contactor when grounded Can
these be wired for duel power sources or do I need to replace them with S701-2
type contactors. . Thanks Tim
**************Nothing says I love you like flowers! Find a florist near you
now. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000001)
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