Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:25 AM - Any ideas how to eliminate strobe noise? (rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US)
2. 02:01 AM - Re: System Objectives (Andrew Butler)
3. 04:11 AM - Re: System Objectives (Bob-tcw)
4. 06:48 AM - Re: System Objectives (westexflyboy)
5. 08:18 AM - Re: Any ideas how to eliminate strobe noise? (rampil)
6. 08:22 AM - Icom A210 and PS Engineering PM1000II (Jay Hyde)
7. 09:00 AM - Fuse or Current Limiter on SeaRey amphib? (Ken Firestone)
8. 10:07 AM - Re: Re: System Objectives (Bob-tcw)
9. 10:20 AM - Re: Fuse or Current Limiter on SeaRey amphib? (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
10. 10:33 AM - Re: Single Bus (marcausman)
11. 10:49 AM - Re: Fuse or Current Limiter on SeaRey amphib? (Matt Prather)
12. 10:49 AM - Re: Single Bus (marcausman)
13. 12:35 PM - Re: Old transponder interface details (Joe Dubner)
14. 04:37 PM - Re: Single Bus (Paul McAllister)
15. 05:46 PM - Re: System Objectives (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 10:18 PM - Re: Old transponder interface details (Etienne Phillips)
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Subject: | Any ideas how to eliminate strobe noise? |
The plane is a plastic XS Europa monowheel.
I have a Kunzleman
strobe power supply on the starboard baggage bay rib that drives wingtip
strobes.
I have two antennas, one Bob Archer big "E"
on the vertical fin with RG-400 cable, and a Advanced Aircraft Electronics
that is bent 90 degrees for both Nav and Com with RG-142 cable.
I have a Vertex handheld VX-700 that if hooked up to either antenna will
break squelch and tick, tick, tick with strobe illuminations. I have the
squelch turned up all the way to #8. It does this with headsets or not.
The radio is running on its battery. I have the strobes connected direct
to the batteryabout 1 foot away from the Kunzleman power supply.
I tried a Terra 720 handheld, and although I can squelch out the
ticking, it has the squelch very high to do so and negates hearing talk I
wish to. If I put a rubber ducky antenna on either of the hand helds,
anywhere inside the fuse anywhere near the power supply it gets easily
overwhelmed by strobe noise.
I have the power wires for the
strobes shielded and groundedto the battery. I tried it grounded and
ungrounded, no change.I have the power supply chassis grounded to
the battery and the strobe cable shieldsare grounded to the battery.
I tried grounding the power shield at both ends, no
success.Itried grounding the shield of the antenna cable,
first at the radio end, then the antenna end, no change.
I wrapped the entire power supply with aluminium foil and tried it
grounded and ungrounded, no change.
If either of the
antenna cables are run in the fuse, the radiating noise is jumping into
the cable, it is better the further away from the power supply I can get
it, but still bad.I tried wrapping the antenna wires with aluminium
foil, grounded and ungrounded, no change.
If I take a handheld
near the strobe head where there is several inches of unshielded wires,
only if i come within an inch can I get some ticking and not even that
bad.If I run the ducky antenna parallel to the shielded strobe wires
within an inch, I can get some ticking but then again not too bad. If
I put the ducky antenna anywhere inside the plastic aft fuse, can't
find an area that is not being hit hard, especially near the power supply
going on the starboard side or going aft.
If I run the antenna
cables outside the airplane by about 2 feet, all is noise free.
Transmissions don't seem to be affected, and ticking can't be heard. It
is just that squelch is being broken.
If I put the ducky
antenna near the Bob Archer antenna in the vertical fin, it is noisy there
which means noise is getting onto antenna cable and making it's way back
to antenna.
Any ideas?
I already have strobe heads
mounted on wings and power supply mounted and beautiful harness made
up.
Perhaps some sort of filter? Seems it is worst closer to
108 and again at 135. but in between unacceptable.
I contacted
Kunzleman and he said sounds like I did everything right, said best
contact antenna Mfg.
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: System Objectives |
Hello Chase,
On point three, if you bought an EFIS with an internal battery (AFS for example)
and installed one or two P-MAGs you could simplify your system significantly
and go for a Z13/8 type architecture, With regards leaving the radio on during
start, there has been reams of debate on this site in the recent past regarding
the real and present or prehistoric need for the "Avionics" switch. Assuming
you ditch the Avionics switch and assuming you always maintain your battery
properly, will your radio have a tendency to go offline during start? Anyone?
I too liked the idea of Z14 for bullet proof "reliability", but eventually figured
it was overkill, so I modified my design, removed the cross over switch etc.,
replaced the 20Amp Alt with the 8 and eventually ended up with the Z13/8 architecture
albeit with a second battery latched on to power my Dual Plasma III.
Then I switched to P-Mag/E-MAg ignition, wired up two additional switches (one
each for ignition power, and one each for ignition spark) and ditched the
2nd battery.............. All very neat and tidy now and much simpler (and lighter)
than the Z14.
Points 1 and 2 are delivered in full by Z13/8.
I can send you the evolution of my diagrams if you wish.
Andrew.
RV7100
Galway, Ireland
Wiring!
---- Original Message -----
From: "westexflyboy" <airplanedriver@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, 16 February, 2009 6:01:25 AM GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland, Portugal
Subject: AeroElectric-List: System Objectives
I have three desired objectives for my RV-10's with dual electronic ignition:
1. Reliability
2. Low pilot workload to manage failures
3. Ability to use radios and EFIS prior to starting the engine (and leave them
on during engine start)
Z-14 architecture appears to meet objectives one and two. Z-14 might meet the third
objective if I use the main battery to start the engine, the aux battery
to power the radios and displays, and I start the engine with the crossfeed contactor
open.
Perhaps operating instructions for Z-14 would help - Where can I find those?
--------
Chase Snodgrass
Presidio, Texas
www.flybigbend.com
Simultaneous RV-10 twins under construction
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230455#230455
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: System Objectives |
Chase, I have similar objectives for our RV-10. To satisfy requirement
#3 on you list we developed a product called Intelligent Power Stabilizer.
Its available in a 4 amp and 8 amp version and it keeps your EFIS or GPS or
Engine Monitor up and running during engine start without the requirement
for an auxiliary battery. All the details on this and our other products
are available at www.tcwtech.com Notably, Garmin has just finished
testing this series of our products and we are presently working together on
the wiring diagrams for use of IPS products with the Garmin 900x & 530/430
series of products.
Best regards,
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies, LLC.
support@tcwtech.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "westexflyboy" <airplanedriver@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 1:01 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: System Objectives
> <airplanedriver@gmail.com>
>
> I have three desired objectives for my RV-10's with dual electronic
> ignition:
>
> 1. Reliability
> 2. Low pilot workload to manage failures
> 3. Ability to use radios and EFIS prior to starting the engine (and leave
> them on during engine start)
>
> Z-14 architecture appears to meet objectives one and two. Z-14 might meet
> the third objective if I use the main battery to start the engine, the aux
> battery to power the radios and displays, and I start the engine with the
> crossfeed contactor open.
>
> Perhaps operating instructions for Z-14 would help - Where can I find
> those?
>
> --------
> Chase Snodgrass
> Presidio, Texas
> www.flybigbend.com
> Simultaneous RV-10 twins under construction
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230455#230455
>
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: System Objectives |
rnewman(at)tcwtech.com wrote:
> we are presently working together on
> the wiring diagrams for use of IPS products with the Garmin 900x & 530/430
series of products.
Bob, are you saying the ICP is ready for Garmin transceivers as is, or are you
working on a modified version?
--------
Chase Snodgrass
Presidio, Texas
www.flybigbend.com
Simultaneous RV-10 twins under construction
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230491#230491
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Subject: | Re: Any ideas how to eliminate strobe noise? |
Hey Ron!
There's no getting around the fact that spark generators produce RFI.
A xenon strobe is an electric discharge through ionizing gas. I know
you know that.
What your radio picks up is little dependent on where you run wires or
antenna, especially if you are using a handheld with its own battery.
The best you can do is reduce radiation from the strobe supply with
shielding and bypass caps (which are probably inside the supply
already). You might check to see if your bulb fixtures have a ground
plane hooked to main ground between the bulb and your antenna.
A good VHF receiver will pick up strobe discharges from planes
passing by at night. It is a badge of sensitivity.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230509#230509
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Subject: | Icom A210 and PS Engineering PM1000II |
Has anyone used these two items together?
I'm tearing my hair out trying to get these to work. I have used an aux
mike and phone jack as they suggest; when the PM1000 is not wired to it I
can transmit and receive on the A210. I can connect the earphone part of
the radio to the intercom and hear the radio.
But, when I connect the mike wires I cannot get speech to transmit. I can
get the PTT's to activate the radio, via the intercom, but, and a receiving
radio can pick up the carrier but no speech is transmitted- I can also not
hear myself in the headphones when I talk via the intercom onto the radio;
but I can hear myself and also hear the other headsets in a normal fashion
when using the intercom by itself.
I noticed that I the problem manifests itself as soon as I connect the Audio
Hi wire; I can connect the PTT and shield/ ground wires and transmit via the
aux jack, and get the pilot and co-pilot PTT's to activate the TX on the
A210, but as soon as I connect the Audio Hi from the PM1000 to the Aux mike
jack (and hence to the A210) I cannot even transmit audio via the aux jack
(the carrier activates but does not carry the speech). The pilot and
co-pilot PTT's still activate the TX on the A210, but even from their
corresponding jacks I cannot get the system to transmit audio.
Anyone have any ideas similar experience? .. Before I take a hammer to it
all.
Jay
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Message 7
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Subject: | Fuse or Current Limiter on SeaRey amphib? |
A friend of mine, who is not on the list and built a SeaRey amphibian,
wanted me to ask the following question.
"Reference Figure Z-15, Ground Systems (Sheet 1/2), Rev K, 04/20/05 -
Why no fuse or current limiter at the battery terminal or battery
contactor to protect the 2AWG wire from a dead short along the distance
back to the engine/alternator on a pusher/seaplane? (In his case that
distance is 15'.)
Thanks,
Ken Firestone
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: System Objectives |
Chase,
Our IPS system is done and fully compatable with the Garmin series of
products. We are now in the process of preparing the documentation
including updated instructions sheets and application notes showing the
installation of various Garmin products being powered through an IPS system.
Both IPS products are in stock.
Best regards,
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies, LLC.
----- Original Message -----
From: "westexflyboy" <airplanedriver@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:46 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: System Objectives
> <airplanedriver@gmail.com>
>
>
> rnewman(at)tcwtech.com wrote:
>> we are presently working together on
>> the wiring diagrams for use of IPS products with the Garmin 900x &
>> 530/430 series of products.
>
>
> Bob, are you saying the ICP is ready for Garmin transceivers as is, or are
> you working on a modified version?
>
> --------
> Chase Snodgrass
> Presidio, Texas
> www.flybigbend.com
> Simultaneous RV-10 twins under construction
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230491#230491
>
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Fuse or Current Limiter on SeaRey amphib? |
A friend of mine, who is not on the list and built a SeaRey amphibian,
wanted me to ask the following question.
"Reference Figure Z-15, Ground Systems (Sheet 1/2), Rev K, 04/20/05 -
Why no
fuse or current limiter at the battery terminal or battery contactor to
protect the 2AWG wire from a dead short along the distance back to the
engine/alternator on a pusher/seaplane? (In his case that distance is
15'.)
Thanks,
Ken Firestone
This has been discussed on several occasions on this list.
You
can search the archives.
It has always been common practice for TC and experimental
aircraft
to not fuse the Fat Wires. If reasonable care is taken to install them
correctly, then the risk is exceedingly low.
Roger
Message 10
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Well, first let me say the VP systems do a lot more than just replace switches
and breakers. The more advanced the system, the "more" it does. In a nutshell,
you get more electrical system features for simpler wiring. Lots of details on
our web site so I won't go into it here.
As far as backups, there are multiple levels of backups built into the system.
Your backup strategy depends on your mission. A basic VFR aircraft really doesn't
need backups, especially if you carry a hand held radio and have an EFIS with
backup battery.
However, more advanced aircraft usually incorporate multiple attitude sources,
multiple radios, etc. Redundancy or backups in the core electrical system is no
different.
We always recommend to customers to install backups for CRITICAL systems (typically
EFIS/attitude source, but is determined by the builder) so the pilot can
continue safely while in flight. The backup may be an internal battery, or it
may be a backup circuit wired directly to the battery bus. This methodology has
the VP system as the primary switching system, and a separate and different
system to provide backup power to critical avionics. A example for comparison
might be having your EFIS as the primary attitude source, and an electric gyro
as a backup. This is very common and accepted practice and is the same for the
VP system.
--------
Marc Ausman
http://www.verticalpower.com
RV-7 IO-390 Flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230541#230541
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Subject: | Fuse or Current Limiter on SeaRey amphib? |
It's not clear from the description of the SeaRay's architecture, but it
sounds similar to many production (and owner-built) airplanes. My 182 has
its battery located behind the baggage compartment. The contactor is
mounted to the battery box, and then there's a long run of heavy gauge
wire to the starter contactor and other buses near the front of the
airplane.
The rationale is that the contactor provides protection for that wire. If
you smell smoke, you turn off the master - de-energizing the heavy wire.
It's exceedingly unlikely on any single flight that you'd lose control of
the contactor (not being able to make its output cold), _and_ have a hard
fault on the heavy cable.
Matt-
>
>
> A friend of mine, who is not on the list and built a SeaRey amphibian,
> wanted me to ask the following question.
>
>
> "Reference Figure Z-15, Ground Systems (Sheet 1/2), Rev K, 04/20/05 - Why
> no
> fuse or current limiter at the battery terminal or battery contactor to
> protect the 2AWG wire from a dead short along the distance back to the
> engine/alternator on a pusher/seaplane? (In his case that distance is
> 15'.)
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Ken Firestone
>
>
> This has been discussed on several occasions on this list. You
> can search the archives.
>
>
> It has always been common practice for TC and experimental
> aircraft
> to not fuse the Fat Wires. If reasonable care is taken to install them
> correctly, then the risk is exceedingly low.
>
>
> Roger
>
Message 12
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cjay wrote:
> I think a lot of people are going to be cautious for awhile because everthing
flows through a self contained box. This simplifies design and installation;
but a bit of faith is required until people start getting comfortable with the
concept. I think they've got a good track record so far.
>
> cjay
We get a lot of calls from people who think there should be no single points of
failure anywhere on the aircraft. Actually, there are many single points of failure
that will keep you from flying or make you want to land the plane soon
(the engine being the most obvious).
>From the point of view of your example, the VP is no different than the graphical
engine monitors that everyone installs today. If it fails, you are not going
flying. You don't just lose one instrument, like you did with steam gages,
you lose them all. But the reduced weight, simplified installation, better alarming,
higher reliability etc. make that a compelling trade-off and people elect
to go with the newer digital systems.
The VP is better in this regard, in that you CAN wire up backups to maintain safety
in case of failure.
So, would you go flying if any of these failed on the ground:
- graphical engine monitor
- flap motor stuck down
- single magneto or EI
- prop governor
- brake system
- starter contactor
- battery contacator
- starter motor
Do you have backups for ANY of these installed in the plane?
Just some things to ponder when thinking about new technology. :D These bridges
have been crossed before and you decide whether steam gages/VORs or EFIS/GPS/graphical
engine monitors/Vertical Power is the way to go.
--------
Marc Ausman
http://www.verticalpower.com
RV-7 IO-390 Flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230544#230544
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Subject: | Re: Old transponder interface details |
Etienne,
The transponder inputs are TTL logic levels with inverted polarity
(active low). The converter should use open collector outputs as all
encoders do AFAIK but I don't see any problem using active outputs
unless you intend to parallel additional encoders.
I built a similar converter some years ago and you may find something it
it that is helpful.
http://www.mail2600.com/EncoderConverter/EncoderConverter.html
Best,
Joe
Independence, OR
Aircraft Position: http://www.mail2600.com/position
Aircraft Last Track: http://www.mail2600.com/track
Etienne Phillips wrote:
> <etienne.phillips@gmail.com>
>
> Hi All
>
> I'm building a converter from the serial protocol used by Garmin to the
> old Gilham encoding used by the older transponders. I'm lacking detail
> on the voltages used to send a transponder the encoded altitude. I'm
> using a old Narco AT 150 TSO... The binary values for each pin is pretty
> much done, so I'm looking for the electrical details now.
>
> Can anyone help me out?
>
> Thanks
> Etienne
Message 14
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Hi Jim,
No doubt by now you have seen a number of posts about the advantage of dual
path ways that the eBuss configuration offers.- As you probably recall I
took a lightening hit in my Europa, and among the many electrical things t
hat died in the next few milliseconds was the main contactor.
I can't can't tell you how happy I was when I reached over to that eBuss sw
itch, turned it on and a few essential things sprung into life.
Cheers,- Paul
=0A=0A=0A
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Subject: | Re: System Objectives |
At 12:01 AM 2/16/2009, you wrote:
><airplanedriver@gmail.com>
>
>I have three desired objectives for my RV-10's with dual electronic ignition:
>
>1. Reliability
>2. Low pilot workload to manage failures
>3. Ability to use radios and EFIS prior to starting the engine (and
>leave them on during engine start)
>
>Z-14 architecture appears to meet objectives one and two. Z-14
>might meet the third objective if I use the main battery to start
>the engine, the aux battery to power the radios and displays, and I
>start the engine with the crossfeed contactor open.
>
>Perhaps operating instructions for Z-14 would help - Where can I find those?
Consider Z-13/8 with an aux battery added per
Z-30 or Z-35 (leaving aux battery contactor open
during cranking).
Alternatively, you can do Z-10/8 (Z-13/8 with
brown-out protection battery). All these architectures
are shown in Appendix Z, Revision 12A to the 'Connection
found at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Rev12A/AppZ_Rev12A.pdf
Someplace in the piles of things-to-do or in-
process is a set of checklists for all the Z-Figures.
I'll see if I can find it an perhaps finish it up.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Old transponder interface details |
That is most useful. Thanks very much!
2009/2/16 Joe Dubner <jdubner@yahoo.com>
>
> Etienne,
>
> The transponder inputs are TTL logic levels with inverted polarity (active
> low). The converter should use open collector outputs as all encoders do
> AFAIK but I don't see any problem using active outputs unless you intend to
> parallel additional encoders.
>
> I built a similar converter some years ago and you may find something it it
> that is helpful.
> http://www.mail2600.com/EncoderConverter/EncoderConverter.html
>
> Best,
> Joe
> Independence, OR
> Aircraft Position: http://www.mail2600.com/position
> Aircraft Last Track: http://www.mail2600.com/track
>
>
> Etienne Phillips wrote:
>
>> etienne.phillips@gmail.com>
>>
>> Hi All
>>
>> I'm building a converter from the serial protocol used by Garmin to the
>> old Gilham encoding used by the older transponders. I'm lacking detail on
>> the voltages used to send a transponder the encoded altitude. I'm using a
>> old Narco AT 150 TSO... The binary values for each pin is pretty much done,
>> so I'm looking for the electrical details now.
>>
>> Can anyone help me out?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Etienne
>>
>
>
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