AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Mon 02/16/09


Total Messages Posted: 16



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:25 AM - Any ideas how to eliminate strobe noise? (rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US)
     2. 02:01 AM - Re: System Objectives (Andrew Butler)
     3. 04:11 AM - Re: System Objectives (Bob-tcw)
     4. 06:48 AM - Re: System Objectives (westexflyboy)
     5. 08:18 AM - Re: Any ideas how to eliminate strobe noise? (rampil)
     6. 08:22 AM - Icom A210 and PS Engineering PM1000II (Jay Hyde)
     7. 09:00 AM - Fuse or Current Limiter on SeaRey amphib? (Ken Firestone)
     8. 10:07 AM - Re: Re: System Objectives (Bob-tcw)
     9. 10:20 AM - Re: Fuse or Current Limiter on SeaRey amphib? (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
    10. 10:33 AM - Re: Single Bus (marcausman)
    11. 10:49 AM - Re: Fuse or Current Limiter on SeaRey amphib? (Matt Prather)
    12. 10:49 AM - Re: Single Bus (marcausman)
    13. 12:35 PM - Re: Old transponder interface details (Joe Dubner)
    14. 04:37 PM - Re: Single Bus (Paul McAllister)
    15. 05:46 PM - Re: System Objectives (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    16. 10:18 PM - Re: Old transponder interface details (Etienne Phillips)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 01:25:51 AM PST US
    Subject: Any ideas how to eliminate strobe noise?
    From: rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US
    The plane is a plastic XS Europa monowheel. I have a Kunzleman strobe power supply on the starboard baggage bay rib that drives wingtip strobes. I have two antennas, one Bob Archer big "E" on the vertical fin with RG-400 cable, and a Advanced Aircraft Electronics that is bent 90 degrees for both Nav and Com with RG-142 cable. I have a Vertex handheld VX-700 that if hooked up to either antenna will break squelch and tick, tick, tick with strobe illuminations. I have the squelch turned up all the way to #8. It does this with headsets or not. The radio is running on its battery. I have the strobes connected direct to the batteryabout 1 foot away from the Kunzleman power supply. I tried a Terra 720 handheld, and although I can squelch out the ticking, it has the squelch very high to do so and negates hearing talk I wish to. If I put a rubber ducky antenna on either of the hand helds, anywhere inside the fuse anywhere near the power supply it gets easily overwhelmed by strobe noise. I have the power wires for the strobes shielded and groundedto the battery. I tried it grounded and ungrounded, no change.I have the power supply chassis grounded to the battery and the strobe cable shieldsare grounded to the battery. I tried grounding the power shield at both ends, no success.Itried grounding the shield of the antenna cable, first at the radio end, then the antenna end, no change. I wrapped the entire power supply with aluminium foil and tried it grounded and ungrounded, no change. If either of the antenna cables are run in the fuse, the radiating noise is jumping into the cable, it is better the further away from the power supply I can get it, but still bad.I tried wrapping the antenna wires with aluminium foil, grounded and ungrounded, no change. If I take a handheld near the strobe head where there is several inches of unshielded wires, only if i come within an inch can I get some ticking and not even that bad.If I run the ducky antenna parallel to the shielded strobe wires within an inch, I can get some ticking but then again not too bad. If I put the ducky antenna anywhere inside the plastic aft fuse, can't find an area that is not being hit hard, especially near the power supply going on the starboard side or going aft. If I run the antenna cables outside the airplane by about 2 feet, all is noise free. Transmissions don't seem to be affected, and ticking can't be heard. It is just that squelch is being broken. If I put the ducky antenna near the Bob Archer antenna in the vertical fin, it is noisy there which means noise is getting onto antenna cable and making it's way back to antenna. Any ideas? I already have strobe heads mounted on wings and power supply mounted and beautiful harness made up. Perhaps some sort of filter? Seems it is worst closer to 108 and again at 135. but in between unacceptable. I contacted Kunzleman and he said sounds like I did everything right, said best contact antenna Mfg. Thx. Ron Parigoris


    Message 2


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    Time: 02:01:01 AM PST US
    From: Andrew Butler <andrewbutler@ireland.com>
    Subject: Re: System Objectives
    Hello Chase, On point three, if you bought an EFIS with an internal battery (AFS for example) and installed one or two P-MAGs you could simplify your system significantly and go for a Z13/8 type architecture, With regards leaving the radio on during start, there has been reams of debate on this site in the recent past regarding the real and present or prehistoric need for the "Avionics" switch. Assuming you ditch the Avionics switch and assuming you always maintain your battery properly, will your radio have a tendency to go offline during start? Anyone? I too liked the idea of Z14 for bullet proof "reliability", but eventually figured it was overkill, so I modified my design, removed the cross over switch etc., replaced the 20Amp Alt with the 8 and eventually ended up with the Z13/8 architecture albeit with a second battery latched on to power my Dual Plasma III. Then I switched to P-Mag/E-MAg ignition, wired up two additional switches (one each for ignition power, and one each for ignition spark) and ditched the 2nd battery.............. All very neat and tidy now and much simpler (and lighter) than the Z14. Points 1 and 2 are delivered in full by Z13/8. I can send you the evolution of my diagrams if you wish. Andrew. RV7100 Galway, Ireland Wiring! ---- Original Message ----- From: "westexflyboy" <airplanedriver@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, 16 February, 2009 6:01:25 AM GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland, Portugal Subject: AeroElectric-List: System Objectives I have three desired objectives for my RV-10's with dual electronic ignition: 1. Reliability 2. Low pilot workload to manage failures 3. Ability to use radios and EFIS prior to starting the engine (and leave them on during engine start) Z-14 architecture appears to meet objectives one and two. Z-14 might meet the third objective if I use the main battery to start the engine, the aux battery to power the radios and displays, and I start the engine with the crossfeed contactor open. Perhaps operating instructions for Z-14 would help - Where can I find those? -------- Chase Snodgrass Presidio, Texas www.flybigbend.com Simultaneous RV-10 twins under construction Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230455#230455


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:11:32 AM PST US
    From: "Bob-tcw" <rnewman@tcwtech.com>
    Subject: Re: System Objectives
    Chase, I have similar objectives for our RV-10. To satisfy requirement #3 on you list we developed a product called Intelligent Power Stabilizer. Its available in a 4 amp and 8 amp version and it keeps your EFIS or GPS or Engine Monitor up and running during engine start without the requirement for an auxiliary battery. All the details on this and our other products are available at www.tcwtech.com Notably, Garmin has just finished testing this series of our products and we are presently working together on the wiring diagrams for use of IPS products with the Garmin 900x & 530/430 series of products. Best regards, Bob Newman TCW Technologies, LLC. support@tcwtech.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "westexflyboy" <airplanedriver@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 1:01 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: System Objectives > <airplanedriver@gmail.com> > > I have three desired objectives for my RV-10's with dual electronic > ignition: > > 1. Reliability > 2. Low pilot workload to manage failures > 3. Ability to use radios and EFIS prior to starting the engine (and leave > them on during engine start) > > Z-14 architecture appears to meet objectives one and two. Z-14 might meet > the third objective if I use the main battery to start the engine, the aux > battery to power the radios and displays, and I start the engine with the > crossfeed contactor open. > > Perhaps operating instructions for Z-14 would help - Where can I find > those? > > -------- > Chase Snodgrass > Presidio, Texas > www.flybigbend.com > Simultaneous RV-10 twins under construction > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230455#230455 > > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:48:47 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: System Objectives
    From: "westexflyboy" <airplanedriver@gmail.com>
    rnewman(at)tcwtech.com wrote: > we are presently working together on > the wiring diagrams for use of IPS products with the Garmin 900x & 530/430 series of products. Bob, are you saying the ICP is ready for Garmin transceivers as is, or are you working on a modified version? -------- Chase Snodgrass Presidio, Texas www.flybigbend.com Simultaneous RV-10 twins under construction Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230491#230491


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:18:28 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Any ideas how to eliminate strobe noise?
    From: "rampil" <ira.rampil@gmail.com>
    Hey Ron! There's no getting around the fact that spark generators produce RFI. A xenon strobe is an electric discharge through ionizing gas. I know you know that. What your radio picks up is little dependent on where you run wires or antenna, especially if you are using a handheld with its own battery. The best you can do is reduce radiation from the strobe supply with shielding and bypass caps (which are probably inside the supply already). You might check to see if your bulb fixtures have a ground plane hooked to main ground between the bulb and your antenna. A good VHF receiver will pick up strobe discharges from planes passing by at night. It is a badge of sensitivity. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230509#230509


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:22:05 AM PST US
    From: "Jay Hyde" <jay@horriblehyde.com>
    Subject: Icom A210 and PS Engineering PM1000II
    Has anyone used these two items together? I'm tearing my hair out trying to get these to work. I have used an aux mike and phone jack as they suggest; when the PM1000 is not wired to it I can transmit and receive on the A210. I can connect the earphone part of the radio to the intercom and hear the radio. But, when I connect the mike wires I cannot get speech to transmit. I can get the PTT's to activate the radio, via the intercom, but, and a receiving radio can pick up the carrier but no speech is transmitted- I can also not hear myself in the headphones when I talk via the intercom onto the radio; but I can hear myself and also hear the other headsets in a normal fashion when using the intercom by itself. I noticed that I the problem manifests itself as soon as I connect the Audio Hi wire; I can connect the PTT and shield/ ground wires and transmit via the aux jack, and get the pilot and co-pilot PTT's to activate the TX on the A210, but as soon as I connect the Audio Hi from the PM1000 to the Aux mike jack (and hence to the A210) I cannot even transmit audio via the aux jack (the carrier activates but does not carry the speech). The pilot and co-pilot PTT's still activate the TX on the A210, but even from their corresponding jacks I cannot get the system to transmit audio. Anyone have any ideas similar experience? .. Before I take a hammer to it all. Jay -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Pinpoint, and is believed to be clean.


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:00:43 AM PST US
    From: "Ken Firestone" <trock07@austin.rr.com>
    Subject: Fuse or Current Limiter on SeaRey amphib?
    A friend of mine, who is not on the list and built a SeaRey amphibian, wanted me to ask the following question. "Reference Figure Z-15, Ground Systems (Sheet 1/2), Rev K, 04/20/05 - Why no fuse or current limiter at the battery terminal or battery contactor to protect the 2AWG wire from a dead short along the distance back to the engine/alternator on a pusher/seaplane? (In his case that distance is 15'.) Thanks, Ken Firestone


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:07:20 AM PST US
    From: "Bob-tcw" <rnewman@tcwtech.com>
    Subject: Re: System Objectives
    Chase, Our IPS system is done and fully compatable with the Garmin series of products. We are now in the process of preparing the documentation including updated instructions sheets and application notes showing the installation of various Garmin products being powered through an IPS system. Both IPS products are in stock. Best regards, Bob Newman TCW Technologies, LLC. ----- Original Message ----- From: "westexflyboy" <airplanedriver@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:46 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: System Objectives > <airplanedriver@gmail.com> > > > rnewman(at)tcwtech.com wrote: >> we are presently working together on >> the wiring diagrams for use of IPS products with the Garmin 900x & >> 530/430 series of products. > > > Bob, are you saying the ICP is ready for Garmin transceivers as is, or are > you working on a modified version? > > -------- > Chase Snodgrass > Presidio, Texas > www.flybigbend.com > Simultaneous RV-10 twins under construction > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230491#230491 > > >


    Message 9


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    Time: 10:20:02 AM PST US
    From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
    Subject: Fuse or Current Limiter on SeaRey amphib?
    A friend of mine, who is not on the list and built a SeaRey amphibian, wanted me to ask the following question. "Reference Figure Z-15, Ground Systems (Sheet 1/2), Rev K, 04/20/05 - Why no fuse or current limiter at the battery terminal or battery contactor to protect the 2AWG wire from a dead short along the distance back to the engine/alternator on a pusher/seaplane? (In his case that distance is 15'.) Thanks, Ken Firestone This has been discussed on several occasions on this list. You can search the archives. It has always been common practice for TC and experimental aircraft to not fuse the Fat Wires. If reasonable care is taken to install them correctly, then the risk is exceedingly low. Roger


    Message 10


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    Time: 10:33:13 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Single Bus
    From: "marcausman" <marc@verticalpower.com>
    Well, first let me say the VP systems do a lot more than just replace switches and breakers. The more advanced the system, the "more" it does. In a nutshell, you get more electrical system features for simpler wiring. Lots of details on our web site so I won't go into it here. As far as backups, there are multiple levels of backups built into the system. Your backup strategy depends on your mission. A basic VFR aircraft really doesn't need backups, especially if you carry a hand held radio and have an EFIS with backup battery. However, more advanced aircraft usually incorporate multiple attitude sources, multiple radios, etc. Redundancy or backups in the core electrical system is no different. We always recommend to customers to install backups for CRITICAL systems (typically EFIS/attitude source, but is determined by the builder) so the pilot can continue safely while in flight. The backup may be an internal battery, or it may be a backup circuit wired directly to the battery bus. This methodology has the VP system as the primary switching system, and a separate and different system to provide backup power to critical avionics. A example for comparison might be having your EFIS as the primary attitude source, and an electric gyro as a backup. This is very common and accepted practice and is the same for the VP system. -------- Marc Ausman http://www.verticalpower.com RV-7 IO-390 Flying Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230541#230541


    Message 11


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    Time: 10:49:34 AM PST US
    Subject: Fuse or Current Limiter on SeaRey amphib?
    From: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
    It's not clear from the description of the SeaRay's architecture, but it sounds similar to many production (and owner-built) airplanes. My 182 has its battery located behind the baggage compartment. The contactor is mounted to the battery box, and then there's a long run of heavy gauge wire to the starter contactor and other buses near the front of the airplane. The rationale is that the contactor provides protection for that wire. If you smell smoke, you turn off the master - de-energizing the heavy wire. It's exceedingly unlikely on any single flight that you'd lose control of the contactor (not being able to make its output cold), _and_ have a hard fault on the heavy cable. Matt- > > > A friend of mine, who is not on the list and built a SeaRey amphibian, > wanted me to ask the following question. > > > "Reference Figure Z-15, Ground Systems (Sheet 1/2), Rev K, 04/20/05 - Why > no > fuse or current limiter at the battery terminal or battery contactor to > protect the 2AWG wire from a dead short along the distance back to the > engine/alternator on a pusher/seaplane? (In his case that distance is > 15'.) > > Thanks, > > > Ken Firestone > > > This has been discussed on several occasions on this list. You > can search the archives. > > > It has always been common practice for TC and experimental > aircraft > to not fuse the Fat Wires. If reasonable care is taken to install them > correctly, then the risk is exceedingly low. > > > Roger >


    Message 12


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    Time: 10:49:35 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Single Bus
    From: "marcausman" <marc@verticalpower.com>
    cjay wrote: > I think a lot of people are going to be cautious for awhile because everthing flows through a self contained box. This simplifies design and installation; but a bit of faith is required until people start getting comfortable with the concept. I think they've got a good track record so far. > > cjay We get a lot of calls from people who think there should be no single points of failure anywhere on the aircraft. Actually, there are many single points of failure that will keep you from flying or make you want to land the plane soon (the engine being the most obvious). >From the point of view of your example, the VP is no different than the graphical engine monitors that everyone installs today. If it fails, you are not going flying. You don't just lose one instrument, like you did with steam gages, you lose them all. But the reduced weight, simplified installation, better alarming, higher reliability etc. make that a compelling trade-off and people elect to go with the newer digital systems. The VP is better in this regard, in that you CAN wire up backups to maintain safety in case of failure. So, would you go flying if any of these failed on the ground: - graphical engine monitor - flap motor stuck down - single magneto or EI - prop governor - brake system - starter contactor - battery contacator - starter motor Do you have backups for ANY of these installed in the plane? Just some things to ponder when thinking about new technology. :D These bridges have been crossed before and you decide whether steam gages/VORs or EFIS/GPS/graphical engine monitors/Vertical Power is the way to go. -------- Marc Ausman http://www.verticalpower.com RV-7 IO-390 Flying Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230544#230544


    Message 13


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    Time: 12:35:14 PM PST US
    From: Joe Dubner <jdubner@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Old transponder interface details
    Etienne, The transponder inputs are TTL logic levels with inverted polarity (active low). The converter should use open collector outputs as all encoders do AFAIK but I don't see any problem using active outputs unless you intend to parallel additional encoders. I built a similar converter some years ago and you may find something it it that is helpful. http://www.mail2600.com/EncoderConverter/EncoderConverter.html Best, Joe Independence, OR Aircraft Position: http://www.mail2600.com/position Aircraft Last Track: http://www.mail2600.com/track Etienne Phillips wrote: > <etienne.phillips@gmail.com> > > Hi All > > I'm building a converter from the serial protocol used by Garmin to the > old Gilham encoding used by the older transponders. I'm lacking detail > on the voltages used to send a transponder the encoded altitude. I'm > using a old Narco AT 150 TSO... The binary values for each pin is pretty > much done, so I'm looking for the electrical details now. > > Can anyone help me out? > > Thanks > Etienne


    Message 14


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    Time: 04:37:29 PM PST US
    From: Paul McAllister <l_luv2_fly@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Single Bus
    Hi Jim, No doubt by now you have seen a number of posts about the advantage of dual path ways that the eBuss configuration offers.- As you probably recall I took a lightening hit in my Europa, and among the many electrical things t hat died in the next few milliseconds was the main contactor. I can't can't tell you how happy I was when I reached over to that eBuss sw itch, turned it on and a few essential things sprung into life. Cheers,- Paul =0A=0A=0A


    Message 15


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    Time: 05:46:26 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: System Objectives
    At 12:01 AM 2/16/2009, you wrote: ><airplanedriver@gmail.com> > >I have three desired objectives for my RV-10's with dual electronic ignition: > >1. Reliability >2. Low pilot workload to manage failures >3. Ability to use radios and EFIS prior to starting the engine (and >leave them on during engine start) > >Z-14 architecture appears to meet objectives one and two. Z-14 >might meet the third objective if I use the main battery to start >the engine, the aux battery to power the radios and displays, and I >start the engine with the crossfeed contactor open. > >Perhaps operating instructions for Z-14 would help - Where can I find those? Consider Z-13/8 with an aux battery added per Z-30 or Z-35 (leaving aux battery contactor open during cranking). Alternatively, you can do Z-10/8 (Z-13/8 with brown-out protection battery). All these architectures are shown in Appendix Z, Revision 12A to the 'Connection found at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Rev12A/AppZ_Rev12A.pdf Someplace in the piles of things-to-do or in- process is a set of checklists for all the Z-Figures. I'll see if I can find it an perhaps finish it up. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 16


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    Time: 10:18:19 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Old transponder interface details
    From: Etienne Phillips <etienne.phillips@gmail.com>
    That is most useful. Thanks very much! 2009/2/16 Joe Dubner <jdubner@yahoo.com> > > Etienne, > > The transponder inputs are TTL logic levels with inverted polarity (active > low). The converter should use open collector outputs as all encoders do > AFAIK but I don't see any problem using active outputs unless you intend to > parallel additional encoders. > > I built a similar converter some years ago and you may find something it it > that is helpful. > http://www.mail2600.com/EncoderConverter/EncoderConverter.html > > Best, > Joe > Independence, OR > Aircraft Position: http://www.mail2600.com/position > Aircraft Last Track: http://www.mail2600.com/track > > > Etienne Phillips wrote: > >> etienne.phillips@gmail.com> >> >> Hi All >> >> I'm building a converter from the serial protocol used by Garmin to the >> old Gilham encoding used by the older transponders. I'm lacking detail on >> the voltages used to send a transponder the encoded altitude. I'm using a >> old Narco AT 150 TSO... The binary values for each pin is pretty much done, >> so I'm looking for the electrical details now. >> >> Can anyone help me out? >> >> Thanks >> Etienne >> > >




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