---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 02/19/09: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:40 AM - Re: LED Strobes & FAR Requirements (Eric M. Jones) 2. 07:23 AM - Re: Re: odd TX problem (MICHAEL LARKIN) 3. 08:25 AM - Re: Z-11 with a permanent magnet alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 08:55 AM - Re: Help needed obtaining filter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 09:54 AM - SD-8 self-excitation (glen matejcek) 6. 11:00 AM - Re: SD-8 self-excitation (Etienne Phillips) 7. 11:23 AM - Re: Z-11 with a permanent magnet alternator (Bob Meyers) 8. 06:07 PM - Re: SD-8 self-excitation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:28 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LED Strobes & FAR Requirements From: "Eric M. Jones" > Thanks for sharing your analysis. What prompted me to think about this again was the discussion thread about xenon strobe lights and radio noise. If LED's are now viable then is getting close to the time to retire xenon flashes, high voltage cables, and inverters, along with the RFI and excess weight. Thanks again, Paul Paul, That's right. I prototyped a design that uses caps at each strobe. The power supply is 12.5 VDC. The sync pulse is generated at the strobe switch and is simply a 1 ms break in the DC power to the strobes. The strobe LEDs were red Luxeons, but could be white. As you said, no power supply, no HV, no noise, weighs nothing, lasts forever (more or less). I looked at a system of strobes where there were a number of flush lights instead of protruding domes. This makes sense if you have LEDs. No solution or suggestions yet, and I don't intend to market such a product. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231024#231024 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:39 AM PST US From: MICHAEL LARKIN Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: odd TX problem Brent, First go direct to the supply side of the CB and check the line voltage while transmititng using the negative thermal of the battery as you ground. If the voltage is being pulled low (more then a 1/2 a volt) you have resistance on the bus somewhere. Next do the same thing at the battery. IF you are still pulling the voltage at the battery, you have a bad battery. A 10 amp draw should not pull the battery down more then .5 volts. If the line voltage is good start checking your ground bus. This is a good place to start. Mike Larkin On Feb 18, 2009, at 7:43 PM, Bret Smith wrote: > The 430 is drawing 10A when transmitting, drawing down the bus > voltage enough to "kill" the transponder. Verify your alternator is > putting out full power. > > Bret Smith > RV-9A N16BL > Blue Ridge, Ga > www.FlightInnovations.com > > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > ] On Behalf Of McFarland, Randy > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 9:13 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: odd TX problem > > I have 240 hrs on an RV7A experimental. > Just developed an interesting problem. When I transmit on mt Garmin > 430 it momentarily turns the Garmin 327 transponder Off. Then 327 > will come back on until the next time I key the Mic again. > Help, Ideas, wild ass guesses? > Randy > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wed Feb 18 11:12:05 2009 > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LED Strobes & FAR Requirements > > > > Paul, > > I wrote up a paper on this some years ago: > > www.PerihelionDesign.com/downloads/aircraft_beacons_using_leds.pdf > > But beware--I have some work to do on this. At the time LEDs could > not quite do the job. They can now. So my conclusion needs revision > and I am adding and revising some other details. The power and angle > stuff is correct. > > "...Beans for supper tonight, six o'clock. > Navy beans cooked in Oklahoma ham... > Got to eat 'em with a spoon, raw onions > and cornbread; nothing else...." > --Will Rogers > > -------- > Eric M. Jones > www.PerihelionDesign.com > 113 Brentwood Drive > Southbridge, MA 01550 > (508) 764-2072 > emjones@charter.net > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230863#230863 > > > http://www.nbsp; the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > _p; generous bsp; href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ">http://www.matronics.com/c=============== = > > > =EF=BD=EF=BD~=EF=BD=EF=BD,=03g=EF=BD=EF=BD > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:07 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-11 with a permanent magnet alternator At 10:43 PM 2/18/2009, you wrote: > > >Hi Bob, > >I love this list and how active you are on it. > >I am trying to finalize my electrical plan for my Aerovee powered >Sonex. I used Z-11 as my starting point but I have one remaining issue. > >Since the 20 amp alternator on the Aerovee is a permanent magnet type, >I do not need to wire up the alt field as I would with a regular >alternator. The problem I have then is how do I kill the alternator if >I want to kill the master bus? If you have a small, PM altenrator, then Z16 is the more appropriate architecture. >Do I need to? I would think so. With the master off and the battery >disconnected by the contactor, the alternator would still be powering >the master bus. Should I put a relay or contactor on the DC output >from the supplied regulator? Yes, that is a feature of Z-16 and other designs that feature alternators with no external control over the field. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:55:26 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Help needed obtaining filter At 11:48 PM 2/18/2009, you wrote: >Any ideas on how to filter out 100 milivolt spike that is very very >sharp with a duration of ~ 75 miliseconds coming from Kuntzleman >strobe power supply, then radiating off power lines and getting into >my antenna? > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Getting closer to resolve to my tick, tick, ticking coming from >Kuntzleman strobe. First off It is the Vertex VXA-700 that is >currently breaking squelch. I called factory today and they said >when you put an aircraft antenna on them, they are sensitive and >there is nothing they know of they can do to help me out.. > >Next is high voltage from power supply, believe it or not, using the >shielded cable from Kuntzleman, doesn't matter much if you have 1 >foot or 25 feet, it just doesn't radiate that much. > >The Kuntzleman power supply radiates a lot no matter how you ground >things, but 8 feet away with antenna under worst case and 6 feet >away under best case eliminates tick, tick, ticking. So power >supplies will live in wingtips away from antennas. > >The power wires are the culprit at the moment! First off I am >running Vertex on internal battery so it is not dirty radio supply >power causing the problem, it is RF jumping off the supply lines >getting into antenna! I just checked over the Kuntzleman website . . . remarkably lacking in >Using shielded wire for supply has more RF jumping off compared to >twisted pair no matter how I grounded shield! Can't explain it but >it is so. Twisted pair is slightly better than untwisted pair, >running a separate ground wire to case of power supply makes no >difference compared to grounding box to black supply wire. > >Using twisted pair with optimum grounding, now has ticking only >happening on lower and higher frequencies. Shielding and twisting has limited if any value in mitigation of radiated emissions. Frankly, this is something that needs to go back to the manufacturer. The website speaks to noise with these words: "Our strobe driver units are designed with filtering and internal shielding to keep radio interference to a minimum, however occasionally noise will be heard over the radio or intercom. This noise is almost always caused by the way the systems have been installed." That's our first clue. I'd have a hard time selling any product to the TC aviation where variability of installation causes a system integration issue. On the same website we find: "AFTER CHECKING items 2, 6, & 7 a small AM radio can be used as follows. Turn on and tune between two stations. Hold the radio near the strobe driver box. A clicking of the strobe trigger circuit should be heard. If not, then trouble is in the driver box and it should be returned to Kuntzleman Electronics for repair. If it is heard move the radio to near the strobe head, that same clicking will be heard and the problem is the bulb unit. New bulb units are available from Kuntzleman Electronics." The two statements are somewhat at odds with each other and perhaps an indication of the source of your problem. I'm betting that better filtering of the DC power leads while STILL INSIDE the driver box is called for. How much current does this system draw? I didn't find any info on their website. >Observing supply power at battery on a scope, there are very very >sharp spikes 100 milivolts, with a duration of about 75 miliseconds >that equate perfectly to Vertex VXA-700 breaking squelch. > >Anyone have any ideas on how I can filter this out? And where to get >parts needed? > >I guess I will need two filters, one for each power supply at the wingtips. ??? Which system do you have? My sense of your description is that you've found a centrally locate power supply to be the source of noise . . . this is consistent with the Kunzleman description of using an AM radio to see if the power supply is functional. >I ripped a choke bout an inch in diameter off a junk copier laying >around hangar and tried it in series with positive at power supply, >and also tried wrapping both twisted pair through it 3 times (all >that would fit) with no change at all. > >I see Aircraft Spruce sells a DC line filter: Chokes are ALWAYS used in conjunction with capacitors. See chapter 16 in the 'Connection. I have an off the shelf filter you can try. http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9006/ It's good for 3A continuous which MAY be adequate to your task. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:43 AM PST US From: "glen matejcek" Subject: AeroElectric-List: SD-8 self-excitation Hi All- I'm having a senior moment, and not having any success with the archive. Why was the SD-8 self-excitation feature deleted? TIA, glen matejcek aerobubba@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:00:40 AM PST US From: Etienne Phillips Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: SD-8 self-excitation For some reason, none of the posts had a "View this topic online at..." link at the bottom of it. What would you like to know? I've got all the messages stored locally. Etienne On 19 Feb 2009, at 7:52 PM, glen matejcek wrote: > > > Hi All- > > I'm having a senior moment, and not having any success with the > archive. > Why was the SD-8 self-excitation feature deleted? > > TIA, > > > glen matejcek > aerobubba@earthlink.net > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:23:42 AM PST US From: Bob Meyers Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-11 with a permanent magnet alternator Thanks Bob, With the word Rotax in the title I never even looked at Z16. My apologies. Having looked at it and Z17 as well, Z17 shows a voltage regulator with three leads - two AC in and one DC out - which looks like the configuration of the regulator supplied with my Aerovee. It seems Z16 is specific to the regulator supplied with the Rotax. Unless I am missing something, the Z17 configuration is what I will look at. Thanks again. Bob Meyers Building Sonex 982SX Web Site Index http://meyersfamily.org/Sonex982.html On Feb 19, 2009, at 10:23 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > > At 10:43 PM 2/18/2009, you wrote: >> > >> >> Hi Bob, >> >> I love this list and how active you are on it. >> >> I am trying to finalize my electrical plan for my Aerovee powered >> Sonex. I used Z-11 as my starting point but I have one remaining >> issue. >> >> Since the 20 amp alternator on the Aerovee is a permanent magnet >> type, >> I do not need to wire up the alt field as I would with a regular >> alternator. The problem I have then is how do I kill the alternator >> if >> I want to kill the master bus? > > If you have a small, PM altenrator, then Z16 is the more appropriate > architecture. > > >> Do I need to? I would think so. With the master off and the battery >> disconnected by the contactor, the alternator would still be powering >> the master bus. Should I put a relay or contactor on the DC output >> from the supplied regulator? > > > Yes, that is a feature of Z-16 and other designs that > feature alternators with no external control over the > field. > > > Bob . . . > > ----------------------------------------) > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > ---------------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:43 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: SD-8 self-excitation At 11:52 AM 2/19/2009, you wrote: > > >Hi All- > >I'm having a senior moment, and not having any success with the archive. >Why was the SD-8 self-excitation feature deleted? It's still "in" . . . just fell in a crack. I'll get the website archives and Appendix-Z fixed shortly. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.