Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:40 AM - Finding the Cause of an Intermittent (r falstad)
2. 11:00 AM - Re: Finding the Cause of an Intermittent (Charlie England)
3. 11:00 AM - Re: Why are antenna torroids painted different colors? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 11:11 AM - Re: E-bus and sd-8 alternator connections Z-13/8 Q (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 05:36 PM - Re: Finding the Cause of an Intermittent (Dale Ellis)
6. 06:14 PM - Re: [Fw: Fw: BEST BUMPER STICKER OF THE YEAR! (F. Tim Yoder)
7. 07:05 PM - LED Strobe Question for Bob Nuckolls (Ralph Finch)
8. 09:18 PM - Re: Finding the Cause of an Intermittent (N81JG@aol.com)
9. 11:23 PM - Z13 switches (Brooks Wolfe)
Message 1
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Subject: | Finding the Cause of an Intermittent |
I have a Garmin GNC250XL GPS/Comm, Garmin GTX320 transponder and PS
Engineering intercom in my VFR-only GlaStar. After about 140 hours, the
GPS/Comm has started to shut down and restart intermittently. It
happened once a couple of widely spaced times but is becoming more
frequent. Now it will shut down, restart and then shutdown less than a
minute or so later, repeating this cycle several times. It doesn't
happen on all flights and I may be able to fly for up to an hour before
it happens.
At first I thought it might be caused by heat (I don't have a cooling
fan). But it has happened under enough varying circumstances (and the
fact that the unit starts right up again immediately after it shuts
down), that I now wonder whether either the power or ground wire is
intermittent.
Before I start tearing things apart, I thought I'd ask the group for
their experience, thoughts and suggestions.
My first step would be to turn the radio on in the hangar and simply
start wiggling harnesses to see if I can induce a shut down. The
transponder and intercom (and other electrically driven items) all work
fine.
Any thoughts? Thanks.
Best regards,
Bob
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Finding the Cause of an Intermittent |
r falstad wrote:
> I have a Garmin GNC250XL GPS/Comm, Garmin GTX320 transponder and PS
> Engineering intercom in my VFR-only GlaStar. After about 140 hours,
> the GPS/Comm has started to shut down and restart intermittently. It
> happened once a couple of widely spaced times but is becoming more
> frequent. Now it will shut down, restart and then shutdown less than
> a minute or so later, repeating this cycle several times. It doesn't
> happen on all flights and I may be able to fly for up to an hour
> before it happens.
>
> At first I thought it might be caused by heat (I don't have a cooling
> fan). But it has happened under enough varying circumstances (and the
> fact that the unit starts right up again immediately after it shuts
> down), that I now wonder whether either the power or ground wire is
> intermittent.
>
> Before I start tearing things apart, I thought I'd ask the group for
> their experience, thoughts and suggestions.
>
> My first step would be to turn the radio on in the hangar and simply
> start wiggling harnesses to see if I can induce a shut down. The
> transponder and intercom (and other electrically driven items) all
> work fine.
>
> Any thoughts? Thanks.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bob
I'd say that you've got the right idea. Just start out by gently tapping
stuff instead of giving it a hard yank or whack. Reason is not so much
to prevent damage, as to prevent re-seating a connector that might be
intermittent. If that happens, you might make the problem disappear for
weeks or months before it comes back.
One thing to watch for is sub-D pins that have partially backed out of
their shell. Another is having a component not completely seated in its
tray & the lock screw tightened. Either of these situations can cause an
intermittent that's really hard to find.
You could have an intermittent inside the radio. If external checks
don't reveal anything, try to borrow someone else's radio & plug it in
your tray (swap with them for a few flights).
Charlie
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Why are antenna torroids painted different colors? |
At 11:56 PM 2/25/2009, you wrote:
>Just received torroids from Aircraft Spruce for Quickie antenna kit
>PN 11-0990 that I want to fool with on my Europa project.
>
>They are painted green then the Mfg. painted the face on one side white.
>
>Why is one face painted white and do I need to concern myself with
>which way I install them on RG-400 antenna cable?
They are not "polarity" sensitive. My best guess is that
this was a material identification marking scheme offered
by the original specifier of the core.
Cores can be fabricated in dozens of "standard" and an
infinite number of custom mixes depending on design
goals for the end product. As an example, here's a sampling
of common materials offered by one popular supplier
of cores to the hobby and manufacturing venues.
https://www.amidoncorp.com/categories/7
I've worked with cores in the past that were stripped
with bands of color not unlike a resistor. The
practice of color coding is becoming much less common
with the development of high-speed laser marking
machines. If parts we receive today are marked at
all, it will be with some combination of characters
unique to that part.
With respect to the usefulness of cores over an
antenna feedline, the practice is problematic.
Many commercial cables are fabricated with such
devices installed.
Emacs!
We read dozens of articles/conversations on the web
that suggest they are "good" and just as many who say
they're a "waste of time".
http://tinyurl.com/d8sakj
None the less, that doesn't discourage train-loads
of the things being offered and sold in a host
of types and sizes.
http://www.thefind.com/instruments/info-ferrite-core-radio
Bottom line is that any product that is vulnerable
to external noises -OR- is a potential generator
of deleterious noises should be filtered at the
wall of the box. We had a discussion about this concerning
strobe supply noises last week.
Any time the INSTALLER improves on the operation
of some system by putting band-aids of any kind on
interconnecting wires . . .there's something seriously
wrong with the design goals of the antagonist, victim
or both.
Sliding a few ferrite beads over an antenna coax have
been shown to produce no practical effects . . . i.e.
did not improve on the system's ability to coexist with
lots of other potential antagonists or victims. The
benefits ARE measurable . . . if you've got a screen
room and a boat-load of good test equipment. But the
effects are so small as to be difficult to measure.
The interference conditions we're likely to encounter
in practice will be so severe that the effects provided
by a few beads have a poor probability of solving
a problem.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: E-bus and sd-8 alternator connections Z-13/8 |
Q
At 08:53 PM 2/25/2009, you wrote:
>
>I had one other thought...since I had the understanding that it
>would not be good to run an alternator without the battery in line I
>would use a double pole switch which would activate the e-bus
>alternate feed and alternator at the same time thereby I would never
>have the chance to turn the alternator (SD-8) on without the e-bus
>on. Is this wise (correct).
>Thanks
No, the idea behind the self-excitation modification to
the as-supplied SD-8 rectifier/regulator was to assist
it's stand alone capability. The noise from an SD-8
sans battery isn't outrageous. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/SD-8_Noise_Data.pdf
On page 5 we see that the SD-8 lightly loaded (3A) with
10KuF capacitor of unknown pedigree and no battery was
about 1.9 volts Pk-Pk. On page 7 I measured only 160 mV
pk-pk with a new 47KuF capacitor and light load. Page
8 shows full load of about the same noise level.
Bottom line is that at worst you might hear some
130/260 Hz hum in the background if your capacitor
is soggy but at all other times, the SD-8 should
perform to design goals as a stand-alone energy
source.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Finding the Cause of an Intermittent |
before you do too much, try changing the Circuit Breaker (assuming that the device
is protected by a CB rather then a fuse). Or checking the conections on the
CB or fuse.
Just some thoughts.
Dale
-----Original Message-----
>From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Feb 28, 2009 1:57 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Finding the Cause of an Intermittent
>
>
>r falstad wrote:
>> I have a Garmin GNC250XL GPS/Comm, Garmin GTX320 transponder and PS
>> Engineering intercom in my VFR-only GlaStar. After about 140 hours,
>> the GPS/Comm has started to shut down and restart intermittently. It
>> happened once a couple of widely spaced times but is becoming more
>> frequent. Now it will shut down, restart and then shutdown less than
>> a minute or so later, repeating this cycle several times. It doesn't
>> happen on all flights and I may be able to fly for up to an hour
>> before it happens.
>>
>> At first I thought it might be caused by heat (I don't have a cooling
>> fan). But it has happened under enough varying circumstances (and the
>> fact that the unit starts right up again immediately after it shuts
>> down), that I now wonder whether either the power or ground wire is
>> intermittent.
>>
>> Before I start tearing things apart, I thought I'd ask the group for
>> their experience, thoughts and suggestions.
>>
>> My first step would be to turn the radio on in the hangar and simply
>> start wiggling harnesses to see if I can induce a shut down. The
>> transponder and intercom (and other electrically driven items) all
>> work fine.
>>
>> Any thoughts? Thanks.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Bob
>
>I'd say that you've got the right idea. Just start out by gently tapping
>stuff instead of giving it a hard yank or whack. Reason is not so much
>to prevent damage, as to prevent re-seating a connector that might be
>intermittent. If that happens, you might make the problem disappear for
>weeks or months before it comes back.
>
>One thing to watch for is sub-D pins that have partially backed out of
>their shell. Another is having a component not completely seated in its
>tray & the lock screw tightened. Either of these situations can cause an
>intermittent that's really hard to find.
>
>You could have an intermittent inside the radio. If external checks
>don't reveal anything, try to borrow someone else's radio & plug it in
>your tray (swap with them for a few flights).
>
>Charlie
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: [Fwd: Fw: BEST BUMPER STICKER OF THE YEAR! |
Which side is the stickey side?
----- Original Message -----
From: jaybannist@cs.com
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: [Fwd: Fw: BEST BUMPER STICKER OF THE
YEAR!
Maybe that was the point.
-----Original Message-----
From: F. Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 5:02 pm
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: [Fwd: Fw: BEST BUMPER STICKER OF THE
YEAR!]
<ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
Nothing came through.
----- Original Message -----
From: "RScott" <rscott@cascadeaccess.com>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 1:04 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: [Fwd: Fw: BEST BUMPER STICKER OF THE YEAR!]
>
>
>
_
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at
http://www.cs.com
Message 7
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Subject: | LED Strobe Question for Bob Nuckolls |
Hello Bob,
I have your 1000ma AEC9051 filtered BuckPuck and some Luxeon Star III and
Rebel Star LEDs (http://www.luxeonstar.com/). Also downloaded and read
through the various data sheets for your filtered setup, the BuckPucks, and
the Luxeon LEDs. The BuckPuck used in your AEC9051 is the -E model,
external control, which allows the output--and thus the LED--to be switched
on and off. The BuckPuck datasheet even has several simple circuit diagrams
showing how to reduce the current and set up strobed LEDs...but lacking in
their diagrams and my head is any knowledge of how to make a strobe (pulse)
logic circuit.
I'm thinking that the brightest neutral white LEDs (e.g. Endor Rebel - Cool
White, Tri-Emitter, 435 Lumens @ 700mA
http://www.luxeonstar.com/endor-rebel-cool-white-triemitter-435-lumens-700ma
-p-179.php), if pulsed, could substitute for a traditional gas tube strobe.
But it would need a logic circuit to pulse the BuckPuck control signal in a
strob-ish fashion...single, double, or triple wink, etc. Would you care to
design such a circuit and post? And maybe, if demand exists, offer it
builtin to your AEC9051s.
Thanks for reading--
Ralph Finch
Davis CA
RV-9A QB and slow-build ;-)
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Finding the Cause of an Intermittent |
This is a known problem with an older version of the operating system in the
250XL. I had the same problem and could reproduce it in the hangar without
any engine running, so no loose connections. I took it out of the tray and took
to the avionics shop. A call to Garmin said to update the system version and
that took care of it. It is not the data base card, but an internal program
that the avionics shop had to order and install for me. My 250XL was
purchased in 97 and started "rebooting" like you describe after I updated the
data
base card. It's probably an incompatibility between the old operating system
and new data base. Easy fix, though a shop charge for the installation.
John Greaves
Redding, CA
VariEze N81JG and RV7A N781JG
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)
Message 9
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I'm a big fan of simplicity when it comes to emergency situations and the
procedures that go along with it. With that concept in mind, could the
switches for the E-bus alternate feed and the Aux Alt OFF/ON switches be
combined into one two-pole switch? It seems it might make a quicker
transition from normal configuration with the main alternator failed to
operating with the standby alternator powering battery bus and E-bus.
Brooks
RV-7
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