AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sat 02/28/09


Total Messages Posted: 9



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 10:40 AM - Finding the Cause of an Intermittent (r falstad)
     2. 11:00 AM - Re: Finding the Cause of an Intermittent (Charlie England)
     3. 11:00 AM - Re: Why are antenna torroids painted different colors? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     4. 11:11 AM - Re: E-bus and sd-8 alternator connections Z-13/8 Q (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     5. 05:36 PM - Re: Finding the Cause of an Intermittent (Dale Ellis)
     6. 06:14 PM - Re: [Fw: Fw: BEST BUMPER STICKER OF THE YEAR! (F. Tim Yoder)
     7. 07:05 PM - LED Strobe Question for Bob Nuckolls (Ralph Finch)
     8. 09:18 PM - Re: Finding the Cause of an Intermittent (N81JG@aol.com)
     9. 11:23 PM - Z13 switches (Brooks Wolfe)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 10:40:59 AM PST US
    From: "r falstad" <bobair8@msn.com>
    Subject: Finding the Cause of an Intermittent
    I have a Garmin GNC250XL GPS/Comm, Garmin GTX320 transponder and PS Engineering intercom in my VFR-only GlaStar. After about 140 hours, the GPS/Comm has started to shut down and restart intermittently. It happened once a couple of widely spaced times but is becoming more frequent. Now it will shut down, restart and then shutdown less than a minute or so later, repeating this cycle several times. It doesn't happen on all flights and I may be able to fly for up to an hour before it happens. At first I thought it might be caused by heat (I don't have a cooling fan). But it has happened under enough varying circumstances (and the fact that the unit starts right up again immediately after it shuts down), that I now wonder whether either the power or ground wire is intermittent. Before I start tearing things apart, I thought I'd ask the group for their experience, thoughts and suggestions. My first step would be to turn the radio on in the hangar and simply start wiggling harnesses to see if I can induce a shut down. The transponder and intercom (and other electrically driven items) all work fine. Any thoughts? Thanks. Best regards, Bob


    Message 2


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    Time: 11:00:22 AM PST US
    From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Finding the Cause of an Intermittent
    r falstad wrote: > I have a Garmin GNC250XL GPS/Comm, Garmin GTX320 transponder and PS > Engineering intercom in my VFR-only GlaStar. After about 140 hours, > the GPS/Comm has started to shut down and restart intermittently. It > happened once a couple of widely spaced times but is becoming more > frequent. Now it will shut down, restart and then shutdown less than > a minute or so later, repeating this cycle several times. It doesn't > happen on all flights and I may be able to fly for up to an hour > before it happens. > > At first I thought it might be caused by heat (I don't have a cooling > fan). But it has happened under enough varying circumstances (and the > fact that the unit starts right up again immediately after it shuts > down), that I now wonder whether either the power or ground wire is > intermittent. > > Before I start tearing things apart, I thought I'd ask the group for > their experience, thoughts and suggestions. > > My first step would be to turn the radio on in the hangar and simply > start wiggling harnesses to see if I can induce a shut down. The > transponder and intercom (and other electrically driven items) all > work fine. > > Any thoughts? Thanks. > > Best regards, > > Bob I'd say that you've got the right idea. Just start out by gently tapping stuff instead of giving it a hard yank or whack. Reason is not so much to prevent damage, as to prevent re-seating a connector that might be intermittent. If that happens, you might make the problem disappear for weeks or months before it comes back. One thing to watch for is sub-D pins that have partially backed out of their shell. Another is having a component not completely seated in its tray & the lock screw tightened. Either of these situations can cause an intermittent that's really hard to find. You could have an intermittent inside the radio. If external checks don't reveal anything, try to borrow someone else's radio & plug it in your tray (swap with them for a few flights). Charlie


    Message 3


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    Time: 11:00:22 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Why are antenna torroids painted different colors?
    At 11:56 PM 2/25/2009, you wrote: >Just received torroids from Aircraft Spruce for Quickie antenna kit >PN 11-0990 that I want to fool with on my Europa project. > >They are painted green then the Mfg. painted the face on one side white. > >Why is one face painted white and do I need to concern myself with >which way I install them on RG-400 antenna cable? They are not "polarity" sensitive. My best guess is that this was a material identification marking scheme offered by the original specifier of the core. Cores can be fabricated in dozens of "standard" and an infinite number of custom mixes depending on design goals for the end product. As an example, here's a sampling of common materials offered by one popular supplier of cores to the hobby and manufacturing venues. https://www.amidoncorp.com/categories/7 I've worked with cores in the past that were stripped with bands of color not unlike a resistor. The practice of color coding is becoming much less common with the development of high-speed laser marking machines. If parts we receive today are marked at all, it will be with some combination of characters unique to that part. With respect to the usefulness of cores over an antenna feedline, the practice is problematic. Many commercial cables are fabricated with such devices installed. Emacs! We read dozens of articles/conversations on the web that suggest they are "good" and just as many who say they're a "waste of time". http://tinyurl.com/d8sakj None the less, that doesn't discourage train-loads of the things being offered and sold in a host of types and sizes. http://www.thefind.com/instruments/info-ferrite-core-radio Bottom line is that any product that is vulnerable to external noises -OR- is a potential generator of deleterious noises should be filtered at the wall of the box. We had a discussion about this concerning strobe supply noises last week. Any time the INSTALLER improves on the operation of some system by putting band-aids of any kind on interconnecting wires . . .there's something seriously wrong with the design goals of the antagonist, victim or both. Sliding a few ferrite beads over an antenna coax have been shown to produce no practical effects . . . i.e. did not improve on the system's ability to coexist with lots of other potential antagonists or victims. The benefits ARE measurable . . . if you've got a screen room and a boat-load of good test equipment. But the effects are so small as to be difficult to measure. The interference conditions we're likely to encounter in practice will be so severe that the effects provided by a few beads have a poor probability of solving a problem. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 4


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    Time: 11:11:15 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: E-bus and sd-8 alternator connections Z-13/8
    Q At 08:53 PM 2/25/2009, you wrote: > >I had one other thought...since I had the understanding that it >would not be good to run an alternator without the battery in line I >would use a double pole switch which would activate the e-bus >alternate feed and alternator at the same time thereby I would never >have the chance to turn the alternator (SD-8) on without the e-bus >on. Is this wise (correct). >Thanks No, the idea behind the self-excitation modification to the as-supplied SD-8 rectifier/regulator was to assist it's stand alone capability. The noise from an SD-8 sans battery isn't outrageous. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/SD-8_Noise_Data.pdf On page 5 we see that the SD-8 lightly loaded (3A) with 10KuF capacitor of unknown pedigree and no battery was about 1.9 volts Pk-Pk. On page 7 I measured only 160 mV pk-pk with a new 47KuF capacitor and light load. Page 8 shows full load of about the same noise level. Bottom line is that at worst you might hear some 130/260 Hz hum in the background if your capacitor is soggy but at all other times, the SD-8 should perform to design goals as a stand-alone energy source. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:36:26 PM PST US
    From: Dale Ellis <rv8builder@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Finding the Cause of an Intermittent
    before you do too much, try changing the Circuit Breaker (assuming that the device is protected by a CB rather then a fuse). Or checking the conections on the CB or fuse. Just some thoughts. Dale -----Original Message----- >From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net> >Sent: Feb 28, 2009 1:57 PM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Finding the Cause of an Intermittent > > >r falstad wrote: >> I have a Garmin GNC250XL GPS/Comm, Garmin GTX320 transponder and PS >> Engineering intercom in my VFR-only GlaStar. After about 140 hours, >> the GPS/Comm has started to shut down and restart intermittently. It >> happened once a couple of widely spaced times but is becoming more >> frequent. Now it will shut down, restart and then shutdown less than >> a minute or so later, repeating this cycle several times. It doesn't >> happen on all flights and I may be able to fly for up to an hour >> before it happens. >> >> At first I thought it might be caused by heat (I don't have a cooling >> fan). But it has happened under enough varying circumstances (and the >> fact that the unit starts right up again immediately after it shuts >> down), that I now wonder whether either the power or ground wire is >> intermittent. >> >> Before I start tearing things apart, I thought I'd ask the group for >> their experience, thoughts and suggestions. >> >> My first step would be to turn the radio on in the hangar and simply >> start wiggling harnesses to see if I can induce a shut down. The >> transponder and intercom (and other electrically driven items) all >> work fine. >> >> Any thoughts? Thanks. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Bob > >I'd say that you've got the right idea. Just start out by gently tapping >stuff instead of giving it a hard yank or whack. Reason is not so much >to prevent damage, as to prevent re-seating a connector that might be >intermittent. If that happens, you might make the problem disappear for >weeks or months before it comes back. > >One thing to watch for is sub-D pins that have partially backed out of >their shell. Another is having a component not completely seated in its >tray & the lock screw tightened. Either of these situations can cause an >intermittent that's really hard to find. > >You could have an intermittent inside the radio. If external checks >don't reveal anything, try to borrow someone else's radio & plug it in >your tray (swap with them for a few flights). > >Charlie > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:14:04 PM PST US
    From: "F. Tim Yoder" <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
    Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fw: BEST BUMPER STICKER OF THE YEAR!
    Which side is the stickey side? ----- Original Message ----- From: jaybannist@cs.com To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 4:32 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: [Fwd: Fw: BEST BUMPER STICKER OF THE YEAR! Maybe that was the point. -----Original Message----- From: F. Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 5:02 pm Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: [Fwd: Fw: BEST BUMPER STICKER OF THE YEAR!] <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com> Nothing came through. ----- Original Message ----- From: "RScott" <rscott@cascadeaccess.com> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 1:04 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: [Fwd: Fw: BEST BUMPER STICKER OF THE YEAR!] > > > _ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:05:09 PM PST US
    From: "Ralph Finch" <rgf@dcn.davis.ca.us>
    Subject: LED Strobe Question for Bob Nuckolls
    Hello Bob, I have your 1000ma AEC9051 filtered BuckPuck and some Luxeon Star III and Rebel Star LEDs (http://www.luxeonstar.com/). Also downloaded and read through the various data sheets for your filtered setup, the BuckPucks, and the Luxeon LEDs. The BuckPuck used in your AEC9051 is the -E model, external control, which allows the output--and thus the LED--to be switched on and off. The BuckPuck datasheet even has several simple circuit diagrams showing how to reduce the current and set up strobed LEDs...but lacking in their diagrams and my head is any knowledge of how to make a strobe (pulse) logic circuit. I'm thinking that the brightest neutral white LEDs (e.g. Endor Rebel - Cool White, Tri-Emitter, 435 Lumens @ 700mA http://www.luxeonstar.com/endor-rebel-cool-white-triemitter-435-lumens-700ma -p-179.php), if pulsed, could substitute for a traditional gas tube strobe. But it would need a logic circuit to pulse the BuckPuck control signal in a strob-ish fashion...single, double, or triple wink, etc. Would you care to design such a circuit and post? And maybe, if demand exists, offer it builtin to your AEC9051s. Thanks for reading-- Ralph Finch Davis CA RV-9A QB and slow-build ;-)


    Message 8


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    Time: 09:18:37 PM PST US
    From: N81JG@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Finding the Cause of an Intermittent
    This is a known problem with an older version of the operating system in the 250XL. I had the same problem and could reproduce it in the hangar without any engine running, so no loose connections. I took it out of the tray and took to the avionics shop. A call to Garmin said to update the system version and that took care of it. It is not the data base card, but an internal program that the avionics shop had to order and install for me. My 250XL was purchased in 97 and started "rebooting" like you describe after I updated the data base card. It's probably an incompatibility between the old operating system and new data base. Easy fix, though a shop charge for the installation. John Greaves Redding, CA VariEze N81JG and RV7A N781JG **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:23:57 PM PST US
    From: "Brooks Wolfe" <slipstream@wavecable.com>
    Subject: Z13 switches
    I'm a big fan of simplicity when it comes to emergency situations and the procedures that go along with it. With that concept in mind, could the switches for the E-bus alternate feed and the Aux Alt OFF/ON switches be combined into one two-pole switch? It seems it might make a quicker transition from normal configuration with the main alternator failed to operating with the standby alternator powering battery bus and E-bus. Brooks RV-7




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