Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:28 AM - Re: Revision 12 pre-published release (Joe)
2. 06:57 AM - Diode across main contactor fat terminals (user9253)
3. 07:24 AM - Polyfuses (user9253)
4. 08:15 AM - Re: Polyfuses (Dale Ensing)
5. 09:43 AM - Re: Revision 12 pre-published release (rckol)
6. 09:48 AM - Re: Wiring / Relay Question (Henry Trzeciakowski)
7. 12:27 PM - Re: LED Strobe Question for Bob Nuckolls (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 12:30 PM - Re: Z13 switches (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 12:40 PM - LED position and landing lights (Bill Czygan)
10. 12:40 PM - LED position and landing lights (Bill Czygan)
11. 12:57 PM - Re: Polyfuses (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 01:47 PM - Re: LED Strobe Question for Bob Nuckolls (Bob Leffler)
13. 02:29 PM - Re: LED Strobe Question for Bob Nuckolls (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 02:33 PM - Rev 12A prepublication posting (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 03:03 PM - Re: Polyfuses (Peter Pengilly)
16. 03:35 PM - Re: LED Strobe Question for Bob Nuckolls (Daniel Langhout)
17. 04:57 PM - Re: LED Strobe Question for Bob Nuckolls (Ralph Finch)
18. 06:12 PM - Re: LED position and landing lights (rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US)
19. 06:51 PM - Re: Re: Revision 12 pre-published release (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 07:26 PM - Re: Re: Revision 12 pre-published release (McFarland, Randy)
21. 07:45 PM - Re: Re: Revision 12 pre-published release (McFarland, Randy)
22. 11:03 PM - Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
23. 11:11 PM - Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Revision 12 pre-published release |
Bob, I sent you another private email with the subject "Aeroelectric
Rev12A Proofread".
Joe Gores
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Diode across main contactor fat terminals |
On May 23, 2008, I posted a hypothetical question about Z-19 main battery charging current back feeding through the endurance bus and blowing fuses in the event that the main battery contactor fails and the pilot closes the endurance bus alternate feed switch. http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=184591&sid=86e2d2ac21d95a18ce267b57c4fcd85e
To prevent the above scenario, what if a diode were placed across the main contactor
fat terminals? If the contactor fails, this diode would prevent the main
battery from discharging. What are the disadvantages? If this diode shorted
out (diode failures are rare), then the pilot would lose the ability to shut
off the master switch in case of an electrical fire. However, current would
be limited by the lead size of the diode, similar to a fusible link. The chances
of an electrical fire and the diode failing on the same flight are extremely
remote. If one is concerned that the diode failure would go unnoticed at engine
shut down, then a warning chime could be connected to terminal 3 of the
master switch. I think the odds of the main contactor failing and associated
pilot error (with dangerous consequences) are greater than the odds of a diode
failing (with minimal consequences). What are your thoughts?
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232580#232580
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/contactor_diode_955.jpg
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
On page 50 of the April 2009 issue of Kitplanes Magazine, Bob Fritz installs Polyfuses
in his Jabiru. He said that Polyfuses are used to protect electric window
motors in cars. Have Polyfuses been proven in the field to be reliable?
If so, can we or should we be using them in our airplanes? The endurance bus
would be an ideal application for Polyfuses. They would protect the wiring by
limiting the current. If they open, they will automatically reset upon removal
of the overload condition. Bob Fritz put LEDs in parallel with the Polyfuses
to indicate an overload condition. Advantages of the Polyfuse are light weight,
low cost, do not take up panel space, and require no pilot action to reset.
What do you think?
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232584#232584
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
The EXP BUS uses polyfuses. The unit is my RV-6A has been problem
free/working successfully for five years.
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: "user9253" <fran5sew@banyanol.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 10:23 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Polyfuses
> <fran5sew@banyanol.com>
>
> On page 50 of the April 2009 issue of Kitplanes Magazine, Bob Fritz
> installs Polyfuses in his Jabiru. He said that Polyfuses are used to
> protect electric window motors in cars. Have Polyfuses been proven in the
> field to be reliable? If so, can we or should we be using them in our
> airplanes? The endurance bus would be an ideal application for Polyfuses.
> They would protect the wiring by limiting the current. If they open, they
> will automatically reset upon removal of the overload condition. Bob
> Fritz put LEDs in parallel with the Polyfuses to indicate an overload
> condition. Advantages of the Polyfuse are light weight, low cost, do not
> take up panel space, and require no pilot action to reset. What do you
> think?
> Joe
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232584#232584
>
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Revision 12 pre-published release |
Bob,
The discussion of Z14 is not consistent with the figure. The discussion indicates
that the Z14 drawing depicts a 60 amp primary and a 20 amp secondary alternator,
but the drawing itself shows (2) 40 amp alternators as you suggest might
be used with a twin engine aircraft.
--------
rck
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232599#232599
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wiring / Relay Question |
Bob
I've placed my Battery Bus Firewall forward next to the Battery Contactor,
just above the 60 amp current limiter. I have a 14 g (15 amp) wire going
from battery bus thru firewall to a 7104 relay, as per the Heavy Duty E bus
configuration.
My question, should I use an additional relay or "something" between the
Battery Bus (15amp - 14 g wire)-firewall forward - and the relay which is
next to my E-Bus - mounted on sub-panel - for added safety?
Thanks
Henry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 6:18 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Revision 12 pre-published release
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> I've put copies of the Revision 12 pages up at:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Rev12A/
>
> . . . for your review. I'll be going to the printers
> with it next week. In the mean time, knowing of any
> potholes that folks can spot would be appreciated.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------)
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: LED Strobe Question for Bob Nuckolls |
At 09:03 PM 2/28/2009, you wrote:
>
>Hello Bob,
>
>I have your 1000ma AEC9051 filtered BuckPuck and some Luxeon Star III and
>Rebel Star LEDs (http://www.luxeonstar.com/). Also downloaded and read
>through the various data sheets for your filtered setup, the BuckPucks, and
>the Luxeon LEDs. The BuckPuck used in your AEC9051 is the -E model,
>external control, which allows the output--and thus the LED--to be switched
>on and off. The BuckPuck datasheet even has several simple circuit diagrams
>showing how to reduce the current and set up strobed LEDs...but lacking in
>their diagrams and my head is any knowledge of how to make a strobe (pulse)
>logic circuit.
>
>I'm thinking that the brightest neutral white LEDs (e.g. Endor Rebel - Cool
>White, Tri-Emitter, 435 Lumens @ 700mA
>http://www.luxeonstar.com/endor-rebel-cool-white-triemitter-435-lumens-700ma
>-p-179.php), if pulsed, could substitute for a traditional gas tube strobe.
>But it would need a logic circuit to pulse the BuckPuck control signal in a
>strob-ish fashion...single, double, or triple wink, etc. Would you care to
>design such a circuit and post? And maybe, if demand exists, offer it
>builtin to your AEC9051s.
We could do that. The question to be explored is whether or not
any combination of LEDs driven by a 1000mA Buck-Puck provides
adequate intensity to (1) be a useful anti-collison attention
getter and (2) satisfy requirements levied upon us by FAR91.205
I saw LED anti-collision products from the likes of Whelen,
Grimes, et. als. that circulated through the halls of Hawker-Beech
for probably the last ten years. They all went to the notion of
offering "approved" anti-collision lighting. I've not followed the
evolution of those products as they were never part of my work
assignment. But the last examples I saw were fitted with large
arrays (dozens) of LED emitters.
Of course, this technology is moving ahead at break-neck
speed and I would not be surprised if components now exist
that would make your suggestion practical. But the configuration
of devices to provide both intensity and spherical spread
of emissions needs to be addressed first. Doing electronics
to drive it will be easy.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Z13 switches |
At 01:21 AM 3/1/2009, you wrote:
>I'm a big fan of simplicity when it comes to emergency situations
>and the procedures that go along with it. With that concept in
>mind, could the switches for the E-bus alternate feed and the Aux
>Alt OFF/ON switches be combined into one two-pole switch? It seems
>it might make a quicker transition from normal configuration with
>the main alternator failed to operating with the standby alternator
>powering battery bus and E-bus.
The combined functions into one switch offers a single
point of failure for more than one system. The
goal of the architecture published is to avoid
having a failure become an emergency. When the low
voltage light comes on, if it took you a minute
to change the system configuration for battery-only
running . . . the outcome of your flight would no
be altered.
Another way of saying it is to suggest that low
voltage in a failure tolerant design is never
an emergency that begs for speedy and perhaps
ill-considered or poorly executed actions.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | LED position and landing lights |
What are the brightest LED's available? I'm thinking of position lights and also
wonder what is state of the art. Could LED's be used for a real landing and
taxi light or lights?
Bill
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | LED position and landing lights |
What are the brightest LED's available? I'm thinking of position lights and also
wonder what is state of the art. Could LED's be used for a real landing and
taxi light or lights?
Bill
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
At 10:13 AM 3/1/2009, you wrote:
><densing@carolina.rr.com>
>
>The EXP BUS uses polyfuses. The unit is my RV-6A has been problem
>free/working successfully for five years.
>Dale Ensing
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "user9253" <fran5sew@banyanol.com>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 10:23 AM
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Polyfuses
>
>
>>
>>On page 50 of the April 2009 issue of Kitplanes Magazine, Bob Fritz
>>installs Polyfuses in his Jabiru. He said that Polyfuses are used
>>to protect electric window motors in cars. Have Polyfuses been
>>proven in the field to be reliable? If so, can we or should we be
>>using them in our airplanes? The endurance bus would be an ideal
>>application for Polyfuses. They would protect the wiring by
>>limiting the current. If they open, they will automatically reset
>>upon removal of the overload condition. Bob Fritz put LEDs in
>>parallel with the Polyfuses to indicate an overload
>>condition. Advantages of the Polyfuse are light weight, low cost,
>>do not take up panel space, and require no pilot action to
>>reset. What do you think?
>>Joe
These are
http://www.matronics.com/search/
Search first on polyswitch and a second search
on polyfuse.
Also check this thread on the topic . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusthd.html
We looked at polyfuses at both Gates-Learjet
and Beech/RAC/Hawker-Beech numerous times over
the years and to date, I'm aware of no practical
application of these parts into airframe wiring.
They were originally intended for and serve quite
nicely as overload protection devices inside and
soldered to the etched circuit broads of
an appliance.
The TC aircraft guys (including your humble
scribe) have yet to identify a warm-fuzzy use
for these capable devices of specific utility.
I experimented with some as back up temperature
limiters in an ice-detector installation a few
years ago. That was a 115VAC, 400Hz application.
We made them work but ultimately went another
route.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | LED Strobe Question for Bob Nuckolls |
25.1401 Anti-collision Lights states:
f) Minimum effective intensities for anticollision lights. Each
anticollision light effective intensity must equal or exceed the applicable
values in the following table.
------------------------------------------------------------
Effective
Angle above or below the horizontal plane intensity
(candles)
------------------------------------------------------------
0 to 5........................................ 400
5 to 10....................................... 240
10 to 20...................................... 80
20 to 30...................................... 40
30 to 75...................................... 20
------------------------------------------------------------
I wouldn't think that would be too difficult to do with Luxon Star IIIs.
Nova was able to get 660+ lumens with just 4 LEDs.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LED Strobe Question for Bob Nuckolls
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 09:03 PM 2/28/2009, you wrote:
<rgf@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>
>Hello Bob,
>
>I have your 1000ma AEC9051 filtered BuckPuck and some Luxeon Star III and
>Rebel Star LEDs (http://www.luxeonstar.com/). Also downloaded and read
>through the various data sheets for your filtered setup, the BuckPucks, and
>the Luxeon LEDs. The BuckPuck used in your AEC9051 is the -E model,
>external control, which allows the output--and thus the LED--to be switched
>on and off. The BuckPuck datasheet even has several simple circuit diagrams
>showing how to reduce the current and set up strobed LEDs...but lacking in
>their diagrams and my head is any knowledge of how to make a strobe (pulse)
>logic circuit.
>1401
>I'm thinking that the brightest neutral white LEDs (e.g. Endor Rebel - Cool
>White, Tri-Emitter, 435 Lumens @ 700mA
>http://www.luxeonstar.com/endor-rebel-cool-white-triemitter-435-lumens-700m
a
>-p-179.php), if pulsed, could substitute for a traditional gas tube strobe.
>But it would need a logic circuit to pulse the BuckPuck control signal in a
>strob-ish fashion...single, double, or triple wink, etc. Would you care to
>design such a circuit and post? And maybe, if demand exists, offer it
>builtin to your AEC9051s.
We could do that. The question to be explored is whether or not
any combination of LEDs driven by a 1000mA Buck-Puck provides
adequate intensity to (1) be a useful anti-collison attention
getter and (2) satisfy requirements levied upon us by FAR91.205
I saw LED anti-collision products from the likes of Whelen,
Grimes, et. als. that circulated through the halls of Hawker-Beech
for probably the last ten years. They all went to the notion of
offering "approved" anti-collision lighting. I've not followed the
evolution of those products as they were never part of my work
assignment. But the last examples I saw were fitted with large
arrays (dozens) of LED emitters.
Of course, this technology is moving ahead at break-neck
speed and I would not be surprised if components now exist
that would make your suggestion practical. But the configuration
of devices to provide both intensity and spherical spread
of emissions needs to be addressed first. Doing electronics
to drive it will be easy.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | LED Strobe Question for Bob Nuckolls |
At 03:50 PM 3/1/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>25.1401 Anti-collision Lights states:
>
>f) Minimum effective intensities for anticollision lights. Each
>anticollision light effective intensity must equal or exceed the applicable
>values in the following table.
>------------------------------------------------------------
>Effective
>Angle above or below the horizontal plane intensity
>(candles)
>------------------------------------------------------------
>0 to 5........................................ 400
>5 to 10....................................... 240
>10 to 20...................................... 80
>20 to 30...................................... 40
>30 to 75...................................... 20
>------------------------------------------------------------
Keep in mind that these are contiguous coverage values
measured on a circle. Unlike the helical gas filled tubes
or even the halogen lamps of the old AeroFlash lights,
the LED tends to be pretty directional with the rated
output being measured on maximum output axis.
See:
http://www.philipslumileds.com/technology/radiationpatterns.cfm
So the trick is to select an array of emitters and
position them so that their patterns overlap to
offer the light levels cited above wherein you can
do a spherical study of the entire dome above the
fixture and get readings that comply with the
numbers in the chart.
This could easily take dozens of emitters . . .
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Rev 12A prepublication posting |
I just finished a revision to the Alternator chapter
and posted it along with change 1 to the Battery chapter
at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Rev12A/
Thanks to all who have participated in combing the nits
out of the text. I've received some additional responses
from the sharp-eyed proof readers for the Battery chapter
so I'll go to work on Change 2. Any assistance folks can
offer on the Alternator chapter is most welcome too.
I'm hoping to get the E-Book version to Rev 12 up on
the website early next week . . . and get the files off
to the printers for paper copies.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
My EXPBUS had been problem free for 7 years but is now giving occasional
very short duration (momentary) power cuts. Really tricky to figure exactly
what is going on. I thinking of ripping it out and installing a regular fuse
block. Will also be much easier to add electrical items in the future.
Peter
RV-6A ~600 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale
Ensing
Sent: 01 March 2009 16:13
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Polyfuses
<densing@carolina.rr.com>
The EXP BUS uses polyfuses. The unit is my RV-6A has been problem
free/working successfully for five years.
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: "user9253" <fran5sew@banyanol.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 10:23 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Polyfuses
> <fran5sew@banyanol.com>
>
> On page 50 of the April 2009 issue of Kitplanes Magazine, Bob Fritz
> installs Polyfuses in his Jabiru. He said that Polyfuses are used to
> protect electric window motors in cars. Have Polyfuses been proven in the
> field to be reliable? If so, can we or should we be using them in our
> airplanes? The endurance bus would be an ideal application for Polyfuses.
> They would protect the wiring by limiting the current. If they open, they
> will automatically reset upon removal of the overload condition. Bob
> Fritz put LEDs in parallel with the Polyfuses to indicate an overload
> condition. Advantages of the Polyfuse are light weight, low cost, do not
> take up panel space, and require no pilot action to reset. What do you
> think?
> Joe
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232584#232584
>
>
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: LED Strobe Question for Bob Nuckolls |
Unfortunately, one rebel isn't even close to the required candela for a
compliant strobe. To meet the the most stressing effective candela
requirement (400 over an elevation range of +- 5 degrees) you really
need a peak intensity of at least 600 candela over these angles. This
is because the FAA's definition of effective candela is a function of
the duration of the flash and it works out that you generally wouldn't
want a flash duration of more than about 400 msecs and you would really
rather have less. The flash duration of your typical xeon flash tube is
much much shorter than that. At some point it becomes a "blink" instead
of a "flash". At any rate, I have been working with a setup that uses
12 of these rebels arranged in a 1" circle and pulsed at 1 amp. This
measured out at well over 750 candela on axis but the problem is that
because of the lambertian distribution pattern of these LED's, the
intensity falls off as you move off axis. At +- 60 degrees off axis,
your down to about 1/2 the intensity which in this case is about 375
candela. A typical setup using 2 wingtip lights and one tail light has
each wingtip light covering 110 degrees of azimuth and the tail light
covering the remaining 140 to get the total 360 degrees around the
aircraft. Now I believe that with the proper use of some reflectors to
focus the output into the angles where its needed that this setup has
enough output to meet the specs over a 110 to 140 degree azimuth - but
that's with 12 of these devices! This could be driven with 4 BuckPucks
controlled with a single Microchip PIC - in fact, that is the setup I
used in my initial fiddling with these things. There is a diagram of
how to hook this up in the BuckPuck documentation. The hardware is bone
simple, but of course you now get to provide the functionality via
software on the PIC. Pick your poison - hardware or software! I took
the software route because it's much easier to change or tweak the
functionality by modifying the code than by changing hardware.
There is a reason the market is not just covered up with LED aviation
anti collision lights - it's hard to do!
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 09:03 PM 2/28/2009, you wrote:
>> <rgf@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>>
>> Hello Bob,
>>
>> I have your 1000ma AEC9051 filtered BuckPuck and some Luxeon Star III
>> and
>> Rebel Star LEDs (http://www.luxeonstar.com/). Also downloaded and read
>> through the various data sheets for your filtered setup, the
>> BuckPucks, and
>> the Luxeon LEDs. The BuckPuck used in your AEC9051 is the -E model,
>> external control, which allows the output--and thus the LED--to be
>> switched
>> on and off. The BuckPuck datasheet even has several simple circuit
>> diagrams
>> showing how to reduce the current and set up strobed LEDs...but
>> lacking in
>> their diagrams and my head is any knowledge of how to make a strobe
>> (pulse)
>> logic circuit.
>>
>> I'm thinking that the brightest neutral white LEDs (e.g. Endor Rebel
>> - Cool
>> White, Tri-Emitter, 435 Lumens @ 700mA
>> http://www.luxeonstar.com/endor-rebel-cool-white-triemitter-435-lumens-700ma
>>
>> -p-179.php), if pulsed, could substitute for a traditional gas tube
>> strobe.
>> But it would need a logic circuit to pulse the BuckPuck control
>> signal in a
>> strob-ish fashion...single, double, or triple wink, etc. Would you
>> care to
>> design such a circuit and post? And maybe, if demand exists, offer it
>> builtin to your AEC9051s.
>
> We could do that. The question to be explored is whether or not
> any combination of LEDs driven by a 1000mA Buck-Puck provides
> adequate intensity to (1) be a useful anti-collison attention
> getter and (2) satisfy requirements levied upon us by FAR91.205
>
> I saw LED anti-collision products from the likes of Whelen,
> Grimes, et. als. that circulated through the halls of Hawker-Beech
> for probably the last ten years. They all went to the notion of
> offering "approved" anti-collision lighting. I've not followed the
> evolution of those products as they were never part of my work
> assignment. But the last examples I saw were fitted with large
> arrays (dozens) of LED emitters.
>
> Of course, this technology is moving ahead at break-neck
> speed and I would not be surprised if components now exist
> that would make your suggestion practical. But the configuration
> of devices to provide both intensity and spherical spread
> of emissions needs to be addressed first. Doing electronics
> to drive it will be easy.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------)
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | LED Strobe Question for Bob Nuckolls |
My comments are interspersed in the quoted message:
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 3:34 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LED Strobe Question for Bob Nuckolls
>
>
> Unfortunately, one rebel isn't even close to the required candela for a
> compliant strobe. To meet the the most stressing effective candela
> requirement (400 over an elevation range of +- 5 degrees) you really
> need a peak intensity of at least 600 candela over these angles. This
> is because the FAA's definition of effective candela is a function of
> the duration of the flash and it works out that you generally wouldn't
> want a flash duration of more than about 400 msecs and you would really
> rather have less. The flash duration of your typical xeon flash tube
> is much much shorter than that.
Assuming the LED's light output is constant over the flash duration, a
longer
duration works in our favor. At 200ms for instance the FAA's effective I
(measured
in cd) is 1/2 the LED output. That is, one might want to assume 800 cd
required.
> measured out at well over 750 candela on axis but the problem is that
> because of the lambertian distribution pattern of these LED's, the
> intensity falls off as you move off axis.
OK, but Luxeon makes high quality but cheap lenses to concentrate the light,
For instance this elliptical lens.
(http://www.luxeonstar.com/polymer-optics-6%C2%B0-x-25%C2%B0-collimator-with
-holder-fits-rebel-leds-p-423.php)
Also they can be overdriven and produce up to double their rated output
(Fig. 10 in
http://www.luxeonstar.com/polymer-optics-6%C2%B0-x-25%C2%B0-collimator-with-
holder-fits-rebel-leds-p-423.php)
> There is a reason the market is not just covered up with LED aviation
> anti collision lights - it's hard to do!
I still believe it's not that hard, but commercially unlikely...the only
market is the experimental
market.
Another possibility is forward recognition lights...a substitute for
wig-wagged landing lights.
One or two Rebel Stars in each wingtip, say one facing forward, one at an
outward angle, with
lens to focus the light further, blinking at 0.5 to 2 Hz....would it be
noticed from a few thousand
yards?
Would you mind posting the hardware diagram for the Microchip PIC you used?
Maybe an example code?
Hey, these are experimental airplanes :-)
Thanks,
Ralph Finch
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: LED position and landing lights |
Hi Bill
"> What are the brightest LED's available? I'm thinking of
position lights
> and also wonder what is state of the art. Could
LED's be used for a real
> landing and taxi light or
lights?"
You can have a look at what I chose for Landing
and Taxi LEDs @
http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album271&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
and LED position lights@
http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album278&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
still batteling with Kuntzleman strobe noise, I traded in my Double
Magnum which was mounted in fuse, for two single units that strobe twice
as much each head but are now located at the wingtips. Getting close to a
resolution, but if i had to do it again would bite the bullet and get at
least a Whelen power supply. Note that I melted a lens by running the head
inside the hangar for over an hour chasing noise. The original power
supply drives head half as hard as the new singles, thus new power
supplies makes head getit get hotterl.
Ron Parigoris
>
> Bill
>
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Revision 12 pre-published release |
At 11:40 AM 3/1/2009, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>The discussion of Z14 is not consistent with the figure. The
>discussion indicates that the Z14 drawing depicts a 60 amp primary
>and a 20 amp secondary alternator, but the drawing itself shows (2)
>40 amp alternators as you suggest might be used with a twin engine aircraft.
>
>--------
>rck
Yeah . . . but keep in mind that these are architecture
drawings, not recipes for success. Z-14 has been installed
on Twin Comanches down to RV-7s with a variety of mixes
for alternators (and in the case of the Comanche, starters
too).
I should probably remove all size designators from the
alternators. I'll mull that over for the next slice
to the Z-figures. Thanks for the input!
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Revision 12 pre-published release |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Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Revision 12 pre-published release |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Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below.
The
complete AeroElectric-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains AeroElectric-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the AeroElectric-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the AeroElectric-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "aeroelectric-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the AeroElectric-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all AeroElectric-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the AeroElectric-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* AeroElectric-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?AeroElectric
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
AeroElectric-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
AeroElectric-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|