Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:00 AM - Re: Re: Polyfuses (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
2. 07:04 AM - FW: AeroElectric-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 03/11/09 (Emrath)
3. 07:20 AM - Re: FW: AeroElectric-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 03/11/09 ()
4. 07:23 AM - Re: FW: AeroElectric-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 03/11/09 (Etienne Phillips)
5. 09:57 AM - Re: FW: AeroElectric-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 03/11/09 (F. Tim Yoder)
6. 05:12 PM - Re: Re: Polyfuses (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 06:05 PM - Re: Re: Polyfuses (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
Message 1
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Let me see if I can refresh your memory. Because of the undocumented crowbar
"feature" in the LSE ignitions that came to light recently, you had suggested
using a relay to provide power to an unprotected wire in the case of a rear mounted
battery.
The concern was that the LSE could cause a trip/blow in an OV situation however
the ignition would be fine and require a reset. In a rear mounted battery
the only way to accommodate this need to reset was to put a breaker up on the
panel but this left an unprotected line from the battery to the CB. You suggested
a standard relay would be the best way to address this and I didn't like
the additional complexity in addition to replacing one potential failure mode
with another.
It seems to me that a Polyfuse would address the need to reset a nuisance trip
and allow the protection to stay back by the battery without needing to add
relays (more wires, additional failure points, and additional switches) or big
fuses/fat wires to get a CB up within arm's reach.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 11:12 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Polyfuses
At 10:30 PM 3/9/2009, you wrote:
>Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>
> So here's a thought then for a potentially suitable application
> for these little monsters where there is some $value$. Ignoring
> the fact that these are surface mount creatures and a suitable and
> robust mounting mechanism would be needed, what about a scenario
> where you have a rear mounted battery and need to protect a wire in
> which a fuse would not be useable. Say if a device has a low power
> requirement but for some reason has a crowbar circuit in it like
> maybe a Lightspeed ignition. :P
>
> Like I said before, I'm not keen on using a relay as that is
> nothing more than a workaround in my mind and introduces a whole
> new failure mode plus a bunch of additional wiring. The self
> resetting nature of the Polyfuse wouldn't be a big deal as I would
> still want a master switch on each LSE. Checklist item would be
> the best solution to addressing when to reset a "blown"
> ignition. More importantly it would allow the crowbarred (is that
> a word) ignition to be reset without the need to access a
> inaccessible fuse/breaker or use a relay to shoe horn a breaker
> into an accessible location.
>
> So can someone tell me why this would not work to address the
> recent revelations around LSE's? I still would rather use a fuse
> or breaker but it seems to be as good or better than some of the
> other alternatives (big wire, relay).
I think I'm lost. How would the polyfuse facilitate
an alternative to big wires and/or relays? I don't
recall a conversation about relays except for heavy
duty alternate feed paths for the e-bus.
I'm not seeing your point about a polyfuse being
more attractive than a fuse or breaker in the
same slot. Can you enlighten me?
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 2
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Subject: | FW: AeroElectric-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 03/11/09 |
I appreciate the replies from David and Bill. Yes this is the XM antenna
and there is no magnet in my version of this antenna. There are two small
holes for mounting but a 4-40 cross threads in the hole after a turn to 1.5
turns. So what I need must be metric about the same size as a 4-40 in dia.
but with different TPI. I am not concerned with using this is a "buddy's"
plane at this time, but it would not be too hard to modify the mounting
later as I can get to my glare shield underside rather easy to unscrew these
little buggers.
Marty
Time: 01:58:48 PM PST US
From: "Emrath" <emrath@comcast.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin weather antenna
I have a Garmin Weather antenna for my GPSMAP 496 which I would like to
mount on top of my panel. There are two threaded holes in the back of the
antenna to be able to bolt this to the 'dash'. Does anyone know what size
screws are required to do this, I cannot seem to find any reference in my
materials about this.
Marty
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 02:37:16 PM PST US
From: "David LLoyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Garmin weather antenna
Marty,
Do you know if your weather antenna is the model that has the ring magnet on
the bottom...?
If so, you may not want to mount it to the panel top if you have a compass
near by.
Also, you may not want to permanently mount it in case you want to take the
antenna with you to hook up to another Garmin in a buddy's plane. There is a
procedure for removing the magnet if it is not desired. Some of
us have mounted the antenna high up and out of the way in the front window
frame area using an "L" shaped bracket. The 2 screws holding it can be
quickly removed in the case where you want to use the antenna in another
aircraft.
......2 cents of comment....
David
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
Time: 07:11:26 PM PST US
From: "Bill Hibbing" <n744bh@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Garmin weather antenna
I have a 396 and if the antenna you're talking about is for the XM weather
I'm pretty sure that the screws are 4-40. What I did to make it easy to
remove the antenna was cut the head off the screw and then sharpen it up a
little. I then drilled holes in the top of the glareshield using the
mounted screws to mark the spot to drill and set the antenna with screws
attached into the holes. I've been using it this way for a couple of years
now and have never had a problem of the antenna coming off the glareshield
in turbulence. Oh yeah, I used as small a drill as possible so that the fit
was fairly snug.
Bill
Glasair SIIS-FT
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: FW: AeroElectric-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 03/11/09 |
Maybe you should use the famous aviation product-velcro for relative ease of operation.
Ron Burnett
RV-6A finishing H-4 Esubbie powered
---- Emrath <emrath@comcast.net> wrote:
============
I appreciate the replies from David and Bill. Yes this is the XM antenna
and there is no magnet in my version of this antenna. There are two small
holes for mounting but a 4-40 cross threads in the hole after a turn to 1.5
turns. So what I need must be metric about the same size as a 4-40 in dia.
but with different TPI. I am not concerned with using this is a "buddy's"
plane at this time, but it would not be too hard to modify the mounting
later as I can get to my glare shield underside rather easy to unscrew these
little buggers.
Marty
Time: 01:58:48 PM PST US
From: "Emrath" <emrath@comcast.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin weather antenna
I have a Garmin Weather antenna for my GPSMAP 496 which I would like to
mount on top of my panel. There are two threaded holes in the back of the
antenna to be able to bolt this to the 'dash'. Does anyone know what size
screws are required to do this, I cannot seem to find any reference in my
materials about this.
Marty
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 02:37:16 PM PST US
From: "David LLoyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Garmin weather antenna
Marty,
Do you know if your weather antenna is the model that has the ring magnet on
the bottom...?
If so, you may not want to mount it to the panel top if you have a compass
near by.
Also, you may not want to permanently mount it in case you want to take the
antenna with you to hook up to another Garmin in a buddy's plane. There is a
procedure for removing the magnet if it is not desired. Some of
us have mounted the antenna high up and out of the way in the front window
frame area using an "L" shaped bracket. The 2 screws holding it can be
quickly removed in the case where you want to use the antenna in another
aircraft.
......2 cents of comment....
David
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
Time: 07:11:26 PM PST US
From: "Bill Hibbing" <n744bh@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Garmin weather antenna
I have a 396 and if the antenna you're talking about is for the XM weather
I'm pretty sure that the screws are 4-40. What I did to make it easy to
remove the antenna was cut the head off the screw and then sharpen it up a
little. I then drilled holes in the top of the glareshield using the
mounted screws to mark the spot to drill and set the antenna with screws
attached into the holes. I've been using it this way for a couple of years
now and have never had a problem of the antenna coming off the glareshield
in turbulence. Oh yeah, I used as small a drill as possible so that the fit
was fairly snug.
Bill
Glasair SIIS-FT
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: FW: AeroElectric-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 03/11/09 |
2009/3/12 Emrath <emrath@comcast.net>
>
> There are two small
> holes for mounting but a 4-40 cross threads in the hole after a turn to 1.5
> turns.
I have a garmin GPS-12, which looks pretty similar to your XM antenna. That
uses an M3 bolt, so I'm pretty sure they'd try and keep to the same
standard.
M3 is almost the same as a UNC4-40 anyway.
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: FW: AeroElectric-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 03/11/09 |
I just use a little hook and loop stuff. ( Velcro )
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Emrath" <emrath@comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 6:59 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: FW: AeroElectric-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 03/11/09
>
> I appreciate the replies from David and Bill. Yes this is the XM antenna
> and there is no magnet in my version of this antenna. There are two small
> holes for mounting but a 4-40 cross threads in the hole after a turn to
1.5
> turns. So what I need must be metric about the same size as a 4-40 in
dia.
> but with different TPI. I am not concerned with using this is a "buddy's"
> plane at this time, but it would not be too hard to modify the mounting
> later as I can get to my glare shield underside rather easy to unscrew
these
> little buggers.
>
> Marty
>
>
> Time: 01:58:48 PM PST US
> From: "Emrath" <emrath@comcast.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin weather antenna
>
>
> I have a Garmin Weather antenna for my GPSMAP 496 which I would like to
> mount on top of my panel. There are two threaded holes in the back of the
> antenna to be able to bolt this to the 'dash'. Does anyone know what size
> screws are required to do this, I cannot seem to find any reference in my
> materials about this.
>
> Marty
> ________________________________ Message 6
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 02:37:16 PM PST US
> From: "David LLoyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Garmin weather antenna
>
>
> Marty,
> Do you know if your weather antenna is the model that has the ring magnet
on
>
> the bottom...?
> If so, you may not want to mount it to the panel top if you have a compass
> near by.
> Also, you may not want to permanently mount it in case you want to take
the
> antenna with you to hook up to another Garmin in a buddy's plane. There is
a
> procedure for removing the magnet if it is not desired. Some of
> us have mounted the antenna high up and out of the way in the front window
> frame area using an "L" shaped bracket. The 2 screws holding it can be
> quickly removed in the case where you want to use the antenna in another
> aircraft.
> ......2 cents of comment....
> David
> ________________________________ Message 8
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:11:26 PM PST US
> From: "Bill Hibbing" <n744bh@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Garmin weather antenna
>
>
> I have a 396 and if the antenna you're talking about is for the XM weather
> I'm pretty sure that the screws are 4-40. What I did to make it easy to
> remove the antenna was cut the head off the screw and then sharpen it up a
> little. I then drilled holes in the top of the glareshield using the
> mounted screws to mark the spot to drill and set the antenna with screws
> attached into the holes. I've been using it this way for a couple of
years
> now and have never had a problem of the antenna coming off the glareshield
> in turbulence. Oh yeah, I used as small a drill as possible so that the
fit
>
> was fairly snug.
>
> Bill
> Glasair SIIS-FT
>
>
Message 6
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At 07:56 AM 3/12/2009, you wrote:
>Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>
> Let me see if I can refresh your memory. Because of the
> undocumented crowbar "feature" in the LSE ignitions that came to
> light recently, you had suggested using a relay to provide power to
> an unprotected wire in the case of a rear mounted battery.
Is the crowbar feature for real? Somebody else mentioned that
they thought this was a mis-understanding of some variety.
You LSE customers should be curious/concerned about this . . .
which one is going to call/write LSE and find out?
> The concern was that the LSE could cause a trip/blow in an OV
> situation however the ignition would be fine and require a
> reset. In a rear mounted battery the only way to accommodate this
> need to reset was to put a breaker up on the panel but this left an
> unprotected line from the battery to the CB. You suggested a
> standard relay would be the best way to address this and I didn't
> like the additional complexity in addition to replacing one
> potential failure mode with another.
> It seems to me that a Polyfuse would address the need to reset a
> nuisance trip and allow the protection to stay back by the battery
> without needing to add relays (more wires, additional failure
> points, and additional switches) or big fuses/fat wires to get a CB
> up within arm's reach.
Okay, I remember. Yeah, the polyfuse looks attractive
for this. You might even consider a switch-breaker for
the panel mounted control . . . or even just a switch.
The wire-protection issue is covered with the polyfuse.
Now . . . about that robust mounting. Let me think about
this a bit. We could use the same technique for the
NTC inrush limiters too. They have the same mounting
challenge.
I've got to place an order with Digikey tomorrow for
some project parts. I'll get both NTC and PTC devices
coming and see if we can figure out a way to make these
things suitable for the aircraft installation.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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The source of the information got it directly from Klaus so I think we can at
least assume it's correct for this exercise. I agree on the switch at the panel.
I probably won't have a key switch so my intention is to use a normal switch
for power control. Thanks for looking into this, let us know if you come
up with anything on the mounting.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:11 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Polyfuses
At 07:56 AM 3/12/2009, you wrote:
>Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>
> Let me see if I can refresh your memory. Because of the
> undocumented crowbar "feature" in the LSE ignitions that came to
> light recently, you had suggested using a relay to provide power to
> an unprotected wire in the case of a rear mounted battery.
Is the crowbar feature for real? Somebody else mentioned that
they thought this was a mis-understanding of some variety.
You LSE customers should be curious/concerned about this . . .
which one is going to call/write LSE and find out?
> The concern was that the LSE could cause a trip/blow in an OV
> situation however the ignition would be fine and require a
> reset. In a rear mounted battery the only way to accommodate this
> need to reset was to put a breaker up on the panel but this left an
> unprotected line from the battery to the CB. You suggested a
> standard relay would be the best way to address this and I didn't
> like the additional complexity in addition to replacing one
> potential failure mode with another.
> It seems to me that a Polyfuse would address the need to reset a
> nuisance trip and allow the protection to stay back by the battery
> without needing to add relays (more wires, additional failure
> points, and additional switches) or big fuses/fat wires to get a CB
> up within arm's reach.
Okay, I remember. Yeah, the polyfuse looks attractive
for this. You might even consider a switch-breaker for
the panel mounted control . . . or even just a switch.
The wire-protection issue is covered with the polyfuse.
Now . . . about that robust mounting. Let me think about
this a bit. We could use the same technique for the
NTC inrush limiters too. They have the same mounting
challenge.
I've got to place an order with Digikey tomorrow for
some project parts. I'll get both NTC and PTC devices
coming and see if we can figure out a way to make these
things suitable for the aircraft installation.
Bob . . .
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