Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:09 AM - Re: Anyone with a KR22 Marker Beacon pinout? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 05:24 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 05:34 AM - Re: Question on Z-11, Main Buss Feed (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:37 AM - Re: Anyone with a KR22 Marker Beacon pinout? (BobsV35B@aol.com)
5. 06:51 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: (Chris Stone)
6. 12:55 PM - CG evaluation needed after wiring (rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US)
7. 02:01 PM - The Obvious (David & Elaine Lamphere)
8. 02:33 PM - Re: The Obvious (Harley)
9. 02:43 PM - Re: The Obvious (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
10. 02:48 PM - Re: The Obvious (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 02:49 PM - Re: The Obvious (Jay Hyde)
12. 03:20 PM - Re: The Obvious (Jay Hyde)
13. 03:43 PM - Re: The Obvious (David & Elaine Lamphere)
14. 03:51 PM - Re: The Obvious (David & Elaine Lamphere)
15. 04:05 PM - Re: The Obvious (Tony Babb)
16. 04:13 PM - Re: The Obvious (Ron Quillin)
17. 05:37 PM - Re: The Obvious (b e)
18. 06:22 PM - Re: The Obvious (Tim Olson)
19. 06:49 PM - Re: The Obvious (BobsV35B@aol.com)
20. 06:51 PM - Re: The Obvious (Richard Girard)
21. 07:36 PM - Re: Anyone with a KR22 Marker Beacon pinout? (Radioflyer)
22. 08:23 PM - Re: Re: Anyone with a KR22 Marker Beacon pinout? (BobsV35B@aol.com)
23. 08:56 PM - Re: Re: Anyone with a KR22 Marker Beacon pinout? (BobsV35B@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone with a KR22 Marker Beacon pinout? |
At 09:40 AM 3/16/2009, you wrote:
>
>Can anyone point me to some KR-22 marker beacon receiver pinout
>info? I think I can figure out the antenna, power and audio out
>pins, but I would appreciate some confirmation before proceeding,
>just to make sure I get the grounds correct.
>
>--Jose
Sorry, that's not in my library of
radio wiring information
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: |
At 10:21 AM 3/16/2009, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>Your question to Gilles regarding Rotax/Ducati
>regulator reminded me of something I mentioned on the Europa list last year.
>Maybe of use here, maybe not.
>-----
>I think I found an interesting bit of forum:
>http://www.pilots24.com/pilots24/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7756&sid=542ce097cbdde3a5ceba2e5bd0d71c38
>
>Scroll down to 40% of the page.
<snip>
>The writer has notified Rotax and asked them
>what they had done / were doing about the
>problem (January 2008). The correspondence can be followed at:
>http://www.pilots24.com/pilots24/forum/viewtopic.php?p=48297&highlight=#48297
>Scroll 30% down.
>The upshot seems to be that Rotax knows there is
>a problem but it must be because units are
>operated above 80C. No redesign yet.
>-----
>More translation from German if required...
>Regards,
>Jan de Jong
Thank you for turning me onto this information. It
confirms what I've suspected about the original
regulator design. Electronically, its architecture
is not all that different than most of the rectifier-
regulators on the market. B&C's little SD-8 R-R
is nearly identical circuitry.
Choice of components and thermal management is VERY
important given that the SCR's are 4-layer devices
in high voltage drop during conduction. This heats
everything up. So it doesn't surprise me that there
are secondary issues with respect to packaging and
manufacturing processes that put other components
at risk.
I assisted B&C's engineer in crafting a robust
R-R some years ago. We built the thing on a hefty
heatsink and had all the hot-components well bonded.
I don't see that in the B&C catalog any more . . .
don't know what the story is.
In any case, the Rotax R-R offering could
use some attention to details!
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Question on Z-11, Main Buss Feed |
At 10:43 AM 3/16/2009, you wrote:
>Howdy Listers,
>
>I am using Z-11 as the basis for my wiring architecture. My
>question is on the 6 AWG wire between the battery contactor and the
>main buss. In my installation this wire will be running back
>through the firewall. Z-11 shows no protection for this wire but
>does show an ANL 60 current limiter between the starter contactor
>and the alternator.
>
>A similar VFR elec drawing on the B&C website shows the 6 AWG wire
>between the battery contactor and the main buss being protected with
>a ANL 60 current limiter and also shows another ANL 60 current
>limiter between the starter contactor and the alternator.
>
>So for this type of setup are two ANL 60's required or one???
Just one.
The alternator b-lead protection is intended to isolate
an alternator with failed diodes from the rest of the system
That current limiter is advised.
The feeder to a bus has a very low probability
of being faulted to ground . . . as are other
wires in the cranking circuit. Traditionally,
these wires do not get added protection. This
philosophy is described in the FARS for light
aircraft . . . specifically paragraph 23.1357 of
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/FAA/Part23_electrical_A.pdf
I can't speak to anyone else's drawings but
know that Z-11 is in conformance with the legacy
design philosophies for light aircraft.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone with a KR22 Marker Beacon pinout? |
Good Morning Bob and Jose,
For flight within the USA, unless Jose wants the marker beacon for reasons
of nostalgia, I would suggest not installing it in the aircraft.
Marker beacons are being phased out. I know of no approach in the US
National Airspace System that requires the use of a marker beacon.
I suppose it is possible that some of the other countries around the planet
Earth have different rules. Any idea where Jose is operating?
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/18/2009 7:11:57 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 09:40 AM 3/16/2009, you wrote:
<skyeyecorp@airpost.net>
>
>Can anyone point me to some KR-22 marker beacon receiver pinout
>info? I think I can figure out the antenna, power and audio out
>pins, but I would appreciate some confirmation before proceeding,
>just to make sure I get the grounds correct.
>
>--Jose
Sorry, that's not in my library of
radio wiring information
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
**************Great Deals on Dell 15" Laptops - Starting at $479
leclick.net%2Fclk%3B212935224%3B34245239%3Bb)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: |
Wow...
Great info. I am currently wiring a Kitfox w/ Rotax 912 Ducati Rect/VR.
Chris Stone
Kitfox 7
RV-8
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jan de Jong <jan_de_jong@casema.nl>
>Sent: Mar 16, 2009 11:21 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest:
>
>
>Bob,
>
>Your question to Gilles regarding Rotax/Ducati regulator reminded me of
>something I mentioned on the Europa list last year.
>Maybe of use here, maybe not.
>-----
>I think I found an interesting bit of forum:
>http://www.pilots24.com/pilots24/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7756&sid=542ce097cbdde3a5ceba2e5bd0d71c38
>
>Scroll down to 40% of the page.
>
>Writer Arrow is convinced that he has found the problem with the
>912/Ducati regulators, as follows.
>The regulating bridge has 4 elements:
>2 power diodes MR2510 and 2 thyristors TP154E (obsolete) or 2N6504.
>One diode and one thyristor in series conduct part of one half sinus of
>the alternator output, the other diode and other thyristor in series
>conduct part of the other half sinus of the alternator output.
>The thyristors have TO220AB packaging and are mounted directly to the
>housing.
>The diodes have MICRODE BUTTON CASE 193 leadless packaging and Ducati
>designed a mounting technique: both diodes with their cathodes soldered
>to a small copper sheet, copper sheet mounted to the housing using
>silicone foil heat conducting isolation; wires to the PCB soldered to
>both anodes and the copper sheet.
>Everything potted with a potting compound.
>The problem is that heating/cooling cycles work the electrical
>connections to the diodes loose. The symptoms are as follows: charging
>ok after startup (13.8V), losing it after half an hour, but the warning
>light stays off.
>
>The writer has a diagnostic test using a battery and two 12V lamps to
>check continuity under heating.
>
>The writer has a solution: parallelling the diodes with an external pair.
>
>The writer has notified Rotax and asked them what they had done / were
>doing about the problem (January 2008). The correspondence can be
>followed at:
>http://www.pilots24.com/pilots24/forum/viewtopic.php?p=48297&highlight=#48297
>
>Scroll 30% down.
>The upshot seems to be that Rotax knows there is a problem but it must
>be because units are operated above 80C. No redesign yet.
>-----
>More translation from German if required...
>Regards,
>Jan de Jong
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | CG evaluation needed after wiring |
CG evaluation needed after wiring
Message 7
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You know, sometimes the obvious can be the most hidden.... I've been
wrestling with a new intercom (PS1000II) that would stop working when
the headset microphone was plugged in. All the wiring checked out, I
disconnected it from the radio and everything I could - still it
wouldn't work. Definitely didn't get any help from the manufacturer -
His email response was anything but friendly or helpful. After a warning
message, he just said to read the FAQ's.
Homebuilders beware, PS Engineering's stand is (here is the exact
quote):
"Who did the installation?"
"If not installed by a PS Engineering dealer or a PS Engineering custom
harness not purchased, the warranty is void."
When all I wanted was some information and suggestions how to proceed.
Would I buy anything more from these guys - no way!
Anyway, 12 hrs into the pursuit, the problem turns out that the mike key
and audio hi wires were connected to the wrong jack pins - on each mike
jack (pilot, co-pilot, aux).
On a microphone plug the tip is the mike key connection - NOT the center
band like I thought. So obvious and yet so hidden... I'll bet more than
one person has been bit by this misunderstanding! How come THAT wasn't
in the FAQ's - eh?
Now I have to reinstall that harness!
Dave L.
Message 8
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Amazing! They give harness construction instructions right on their
website, and in the same breath say that the warranty is void if you
follow them!
Harley
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David & Elaine Lamphere wrote:
> You know, sometimes the obvious can be the most hidden.... I've been
> wrestling with a new intercom (PS1000II) that would stop working when
> the headset microphone was plugged in. All the wiring checked out, I
> disconnected it from the radio and everything I could - still it
> wouldn't work. Definitely didn't get any help from the manufacturer -
> His email response was anything but friendly or helpful. After a
> warning message, he just said to read the FAQ's.
>
> Homebuilders beware, PS Engineering's stand is (here is the exact quote):
>
> /"Who did the installation?"/
> /"If not installed by a PS Engineering dealer or a PS Engineering
> custom harness not purchased, the warranty is void."/
>
> When all I wanted was some information and suggestions how to proceed.
> Would I buy anything more from these guys - no way!
>
> Anyway, 12 hrs into the pursuit, the problem turns out that the mike
> key and audio hi wires were connected to the wrong jack pins - on each
> mike jack (pilot, co-pilot, aux).
>
> On a microphone plug the tip is the mike key connection - NOT the
> center band like I thought. So obvious and yet so hidden... I'll bet
> more than one person has been bit by this misunderstanding! How come
> THAT wasn't in the FAQ's - eh?
>
>
> Now I have to reinstall that harness!
>
>
> Dave L.
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 9
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That's a standard response from PS and I can't really blame them. They h
ave had lots of intercoms that were toasted by users installing their equip
ment and then trying to return them saying it's PS's fault. Solution to th
is is require a harness. Seems a level headed requirement rather than not
supporting guys like us.
Michael
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr
ic-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David & Elaine Lamphere
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 4:49 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: The Obvious
You know, sometimes the obvious can be the most hidden.... I've been wrestl
ing with a new intercom (PS1000II) that would stop working when the headse
t microphone was plugged in. All the wiring checked out, I disconnected it
from the radio and everything I could - still it wouldn't work. Definitely
didn't get any help from the manufacturer - His email response was anything
but friendly or helpful. After a warning message, he just said to read the
FAQ's.
Homebuilders beware, PS Engineering's stand is (here is the exact quote):
"Who did the installation?"
"If not installed by a PS Engineering dealer or a PS Engineering custom har
ness not purchased, the warranty is void."
When all I wanted was some information and suggestions how to proceed.
Would I buy anything more from these guys - no way!
Anyway, 12 hrs into the pursuit, the problem turns out that the mike key an
d audio hi wires were connected to the wrong jack pins - on each mike jack
(pilot, co-pilot, aux).
On a microphone plug the tip is the mike key connection - NOT the center ba
nd like I thought. So obvious and yet so hidden... I'll bet more than one p
erson has been bit by this misunderstanding! How come THAT wasn't in the FA
Q's - eh?
Now I have to reinstall that harness!
Dave L.
Message 10
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At 03:48 PM 3/18/2009, you wrote:
>You know, sometimes the obvious can be the most hidden.... I've been
>wrestling with a new intercom (PS1000II) that would stop working
>when the headset microphone was plugged in. All the wiring checked
>out, I disconnected it from the radio and everything I could - still
>it wouldn't work. Definitely didn't get any help from the
>manufacturer - His email response was anything but friendly or
>helpful. After a warning message, he just said to read the FAQ's.
>
>Homebuilders beware, PS Engineering's stand is (here is the exact quote):
>
>"Who did the installation?"
>"If not installed by a PS Engineering dealer or a PS Engineering
>custom harness not purchased, the warranty is void."
>
>When all I wanted was some information and suggestions how to proceed.
>Would I buy anything more from these guys - no way!
>
>Anyway, 12 hrs into the pursuit, the problem turns out that the mike
>key and audio hi wires were connected to the wrong jack pins - on
>each mike jack (pilot, co-pilot, aux).
>
>On a microphone plug the tip is the mike key connection - NOT the
>center band like I thought. So obvious and yet so hidden... I'll bet
>more than one person has been bit by this misunderstanding! How come
>THAT wasn't in the FAQ's - eh?
If you had queried the AeroElectric Connection
website search feature on "microphone" . . . one of the
hits you would have received . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/micjack/micjack.html
. . . speaks to this issue.
You gotta cut the PS guys a bit of slack. The
majority of installations for their products are
carried out by folks who have done it before. I get dozens
of e-mails and phone calls per weeks with questions
that are equally simplistic. None of this stuff
is "hard" to do . . . but there's so much "easy"
stuff you need to know. Time that customer
service folks spend on the phone/email trying
to figure out which "easy" thing is being
overlooked doesn't help the bottom line.
I've listened to one sided conversations in the
customer service departments at Hakwker-Beech.
In most cases, the exchange of data is rapid,
concise, often folks at both ends of the line
are looking at the same computer screen. Occasionally,
you hear a conversation that is NOT moving
ahead smoothly. I've been told that sifting
the easy things with a new technician is
4 to 10 times more expensive to the company
than working with the more experienced tech.
Nonetheless they are courteous and as helpful
as they know how to be but its exceedingly
difficult to know what your listener doesn't
know. One of those calls can keep 4 to 10
more experienced folks waiting with commensurate
extensions of THEIR customer's down time on
a very expensive airplane!
I'm not suggesting that anyone is right or
wrong here. I'm only pointing out that
education is EXPENSIVE in terms of $time$
and patience. A lot of my time billed to customers
is to educate myself in the magnitude and
character of simple-ideas that require sifting.
Your frustration is understandable and perhaps
expected . . . but pitching mudballs at the PS
Engineering guys is perhaps unustified and
certainly not productive. I'm pleased that
root cause of your problem is solved and
that the project is again moving forward.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 11
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Hi there Dave,
I have had exactly the same problem when installing the PM1000 system from
PS Engineering; so far I have not been able to solve the problem- your mail
gives me a new place to look.. I'll check it out and report back!
I also encountered the same poor service response from them- extremely bad.
I would not at all recommend PS Eng products based on the extremely poor
after sales service. If I hadn't already cut the panel I'd go so far as to
toss the damned thing out..
The PS Eng guys response was similar to that that you encountered- speak to
the avionics agent who installed or sold you the product- I bought it from
their stand at Oshkosh last year. to which I got the equivalent of an 'oh
well' shrug.
Jay
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David &
Elaine Lamphere
Sent: 18 March 2009 10:49 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: The Obvious
You know, sometimes the obvious can be the most hidden.... I've been
wrestling with a new intercom (PS1000II) that would stop working when the
headset microphone was plugged in. All the wiring checked out, I
disconnected it from the radio and everything I could - still it wouldn't
work. Definitely didn't get any help from the manufacturer - His email
response was anything but friendly or helpful. After a warning message, he
just said to read the FAQ's.
Homebuilders beware, PS Engineering's stand is (here is the exact quote):
"Who did the installation?"
"If not installed by a PS Engineering dealer or a PS Engineering custom
harness not purchased, the warranty is void."
When all I wanted was some information and suggestions how to proceed.
Would I buy anything more from these guys - no way!
Anyway, 12 hrs into the pursuit, the problem turns out that the mike key and
audio hi wires were connected to the wrong jack pins - on each mike jack
(pilot, co-pilot, aux).
On a microphone plug the tip is the mike key connection - NOT the center
band like I thought. So obvious and yet so hidden... I'll bet more than one
person has been bit by this misunderstanding! How come THAT wasn't in the
FAQ's - eh?
Now I have to reinstall that harness!
Dave L.
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by Pinpoint, and is
believed to be clean.
Message 12
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Hmm, I disagree somewhat with you Bob; if this is such an obvious problem
and continuously encountered then the manufacturer ought to make it clearer
on the installation instructions- quite simple really. Or, in the FAQ list
on their website, provide pictures like you have- its obviously a frequent
source of frustration for customers, and hence support staff- so make it
clearer.
I have just checked my wiring, and I had also previously looked at the link
that you provide in your mail, and my wiring is exactly as you indicate. I
took my unit to a local PS Eng agent and avionics shop to check out and
provided the detailed wiring diagram as I wired it up. They checked the
unit out and found it to be fine- they also thought that my wiring was
correct, but still the Icom A210 won't talk to the PS unit..
Jay
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: 18 March 2009 11:47 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: The Obvious
At 03:48 PM 3/18/2009, you wrote:
You know, sometimes the obvious can be the most hidden.... I've been
wrestling with a new intercom (PS1000II) that would stop working when the
headset microphone was plugged in. All the wiring checked out, I
disconnected it from the radio and everything I could - still it wouldn't
work. Definitely didn't get any help from the manufacturer - His email
response was anything but friendly or helpful. After a warning message, he
just said to read the FAQ's.
Homebuilders beware, PS Engineering's stand is (here is the exact quote):
"Who did the installation?"
"If not installed by a PS Engineering dealer or a PS Engineering custom
harness not purchased, the warranty is void."
When all I wanted was some information and suggestions how to proceed.
Would I buy anything more from these guys - no way!
Anyway, 12 hrs into the pursuit, the problem turns out that the mike key and
audio hi wires were connected to the wrong jack pins - on each mike jack
(pilot, co-pilot, aux).
On a microphone plug the tip is the mike key connection - NOT the center
band like I thought. So obvious and yet so hidden... I'll bet more than one
person has been bit by this misunderstanding! How come THAT wasn't in the
FAQ's - eh?
If you had queried the AeroElectric Connection
website search feature on "microphone" . . . one of the
hits you would have received . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/micjack/micjack.html
. . . speaks to this issue.
You gotta cut the PS guys a bit of slack. The
majority of installations for their products are
carried out by folks who have done it before. I get dozens
of e-mails and phone calls per weeks with questions
that are equally simplistic. None of this stuff
is "hard" to do . . . but there's so much "easy"
stuff you need to know. Time that customer
service folks spend on the phone/email trying
to figure out which "easy" thing is being
overlooked doesn't help the bottom line.
I've listened to one sided conversations in the
customer service departments at Hakwker-Beech.
In most cases, the exchange of data is rapid,
concise, often folks at both ends of the line
are looking at the same computer screen. Occasionally,
you hear a conversation that is NOT moving
ahead smoothly. I've been told that sifting
the easy things with a new technician is
4 to 10 times more expensive to the company
than working with the more experienced tech.
Nonetheless they are courteous and as helpful
as they know how to be but its exceedingly
difficult to know what your listener doesn't
know. One of those calls can keep 4 to 10
more experienced folks waiting with commensurate
extensions of THEIR customer's down time on
a very expensive airplane!
I'm not suggesting that anyone is right or
wrong here. I'm only pointing out that
education is EXPENSIVE in terms of $time$
and patience. A lot of my time billed to customers
is to educate myself in the magnitude and
character of simple-ideas that require sifting.
Your frustration is understandable and perhaps
expected . . . but pitching mudballs at the PS
Engineering guys is perhaps unustified and
certainly not productive. I'm pleased that
root cause of your problem is solved and
that the project is again moving forward.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by Pinpoint, and is
believed to be clean.
Message 13
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Yep - that's the article! The light bulb went on at that moment!
Very clear essay on the subject :-) Thank You!
As to PS Engineering - they could have been just a little bit more
helpful :-)
Not the kind of treatment you would like I am sure.
If you had queried the AeroElectric Connection
website search feature on "microphone" . . . one of the
hits you would have received . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/micjack/micjack.html
. . . speaks to this issue.
Message 14
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Jay,
One other gotcha is keeping the jacks detached electrically from the
panel. Those parts that come with the jacks : phenolic rings and black
plastic rings that have a lip that fit in the mounting hole and insulate
the jack stud are to be used! The signal lows are NOT ground and need to
be kept isolated from the airframe/panel ground.
To their credit, they (PSE) DO give you the installation schematic.
Some of the other manufacturers of avionics do not! DIY's have to really
dig and scramble in those cases. Bob's postings and documents are
priceless in those cases.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay Hyde
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 5:55 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: The Obvious
Hi there Dave,
I have had exactly the same problem when installing the PM1000 system
from PS Engineering; so far I have not been able to solve the problem-
your mail gives me a new place to look.. I'll check it out and report
back!
I also encountered the same poor service response from them- extremely
bad. I would not at all recommend PS Eng products based on the
extremely poor after sales service. If I hadn't already cut the panel
I'd go so far as to toss the damned thing out..
The PS Eng guys response was similar to that that you encountered-
speak to the avionics agent who installed or sold you the product- I
bought it from their stand at Oshkosh last year. to which I got the
equivalent of an 'oh well' shrug.
Jay
Message 15
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I have little to no sympathy for PS position I think the problems are
completely of their own making and the solution is in their own hands.
If
their products are difficult to install then they should only sell
through
resellers who do installation or they should insist on a harness being
purchased, or insist on customers taking a training course. Seems to me
they
want it both ways - additional revenue by selling direct to any retail
customer with a credit card and low service level costs assuming they're
selling through qualified installers.
Back in the early days of PCs there were numerous issues with customers
buying PCs direct from manufacturers and then not being able to assemble
them. Some manufacturers referred customers to the cheapest tech support
they could find ( usually off-shore with a heavy accent following a
script)
and others stepped up to the plate and provided very simple color
diagrams -
with only numbers and pictures with no text descriptions that matched
the
color coded connectors and cables. Guess which manufacturers are still
around today.....
If you know that your customers are going to be challenged to install
your
stuff then you have to look at the whole customer experience - a flashy
stand at Oshkosh doesn't cut it any more - well designed products with
documentation that matches the expected experience level of your
customers.
If you can't do that then get out of the business or you will be
overtaken
by those who will.
Tony
Velocty SEFG 62% done, 78% to go
www.alejandra.net/velocity
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV
Builder (Michael Sausen)
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 2:39 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: The Obvious
That's a standard response from PS and I can't really blame them.
They
have had lots of intercoms that were toasted by users installing their
equipment and then trying to return them saying it's PS's fault.
Solution
to this is require a harness. Seems a level headed requirement rather
than
not supporting guys like us.
Michael
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
&
Elaine Lamphere
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 4:49 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: The Obvious
You know, sometimes the obvious can be the most hidden.... I've been
wrestling with a new intercom (PS1000II) that would stop working when
the
headset microphone was plugged in. All the wiring checked out, I
disconnected it from the radio and everything I could - still it
wouldn't
work. Definitely didn't get any help from the manufacturer - His email
response was anything but friendly or helpful. After a warning message,
he
just said to read the FAQ's.
Homebuilders beware, PS Engineering's stand is (here is the exact
quote):
"Who did the installation?"
"If not installed by a PS Engineering dealer or a PS Engineering custom
harness not purchased, the warranty is void."
When all I wanted was some information and suggestions how to proceed.
Would I buy anything more from these guys - no way!
Anyway, 12 hrs into the pursuit, the problem turns out that the mike key
and
audio hi wires were connected to the wrong jack pins - on each mike jack
(pilot, co-pilot, aux).
On a microphone plug the tip is the mike key connection - NOT the center
band like I thought. So obvious and yet so hidden... I'll bet more than
one
person has been bit by this misunderstanding! How come THAT wasn't in
the
FAQ's - eh?
Now I have to reinstall that harness!
Dave L.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 16
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At 15:19 3/18/2009, you wrote:
>Hmm, I disagree somewhat with you Bob; if this
>is such an obvious problem and continuously
>encountered then the manufacturer ought to make
>it clearer on the installation instructions-
>quite simple really. Or, in the FAQ list on
>their website, provide pictures like you have-
>its obviously a frequent source of frustration
>for customers, and hence support staff- so make it clearer=85
I'm with Bob on this.
I had a King KMA aka PS-7000 unit. Had sticky
buttons, and -under warranty- a King dealer
REFUSED to accept the unit for repair. I sent it
to PS, had it upgraded and it came back,
promptly, with a PS bezel and working
buttons. The IM for the 7000B unit has a drawing
of the jack with Hi, Lo and PTT clearly
indicated. Assuming you meant PM1000-II and not
PS1000II, an even better and very clearly labeled
diagram is right in the manual. If we can't
RTFM, and follow, we have no business wiring our
avionics, perhaps incorrectly, and then slamming the factory customer
support.
Apologies if I offend, just my opinion.
Ron Q.
Message 17
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Something else that may be a gotcha on this system is that they want the ja
ck isolated from aircraft ground and that the shield grounds are back at th
e ps1000 box, not at the jacks. I have a pdf schematic of the wiring if an
y are interested, email off list. Thanks.=0A=0ABarry Chapman=0ARV-9A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Jay Hyde <jay@horriblehyd
e.com>=0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, March 18, 2
009 4:55:05 PM=0ASubject: RE: AeroElectric-List: The Obvious=0A=0A =0AHi th
ere Dave,=0A =0AI have had exactly the same problem when=0Ainstalling the P
M1000 system from PS Engineering; so far I have not been able=0Ato solve th
e problem- your mail gives me a new place to look.. I=99ll=0Acheck i
t out and report back!=0A =0AI also encountered the same poor service respo
nse=0Afrom them- extremely bad. I would not at all recommend PS Eng produc
ts based=0Aon the extremely poor after sales service. If I hadn=99t
already cut the panel=0AI=99d go so far as to toss the damned thing o
ut..=0A =0AThe PS Eng guys response was similar to=0Athat that you encounte
red- speak to the avionics agent who installed or sold=0Ayou the product- I
bought it from their stand at Oshkosh last year to=0Awhich I got
the equivalent of an =98oh well=99 shrug=0A =0AJay=0A
=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A =0AFrom:owner-aeroelectric-li
st-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.
com] On Behalf Of David & Elaine Lamphere=0ASent: 18 March 2009 10:49 PM=0A
us=0A =0AYou know, sometimes the obvious can be the most hidden....=0AI've
been wrestling with a new intercom (PS1000II) that would stop=0Aworking wh
en the headset microphone was plugged in. All the wiring checked=0Aout, I d
isconnected it from the radio and everything I could - still it=0Awouldn't
work. Definitely didn't get any help from the manufacturer - His email=0Are
sponse was anything but friendly or helpful. After a warning message, he ju
st=0Asaid to read the FAQ's. =0A =0AHomebuilders beware, PS Engineering's s
tand is (here is=0Athe exact quote):=0A =0A"Who did the installation?"=0A"I
f not installed by a PS Engineering dealer=0Aor a PS Engineering custom har
ness not purchased, the warranty is void."=0A =0AWhen all I wanted was some
information and suggestions how=0Ato proceed.=0AWould I buy anything more
from these guys - no way!=0A =0AAnyway, 12 hrs into the pursuit, the proble
m turns=0Aout that the mike key and audio hi wires were connected to the wr
ong jack=0Apins - on each mike jack (pilot, co-pilot, aux).=0A =0AOn a micr
ophone plug the tip is the mike key connection -=0ANOT the center band like
I thought. So obvious and yet so hidden... I'll bet=0Amore than one person
has been bit by this misunderstanding! How come THAT=0Awasn't in the FAQ's
- eh?=0A =0A =0ANow I have to reinstall that harness!=0A =0A =0ADave L.=0A
=0A =0A =0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List=0Ahttp:/
/forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A =0A-- =0A
This message has been scanned for viruses and =0Adangerous content by Pinpo
============
Message 18
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Boy I don't know, the audio panel is about the most complex item
in a panel to wire. I know it's about the largest and most
complex wired item in my plane. I'm really glad they do provide
the diagrams and I am allowed to wire it myself, but I certainly
wouldn't want to be on their end having to provide support to
the untrained. I know Stein spends WAY more time in his business
helping amateurs figure out what they screwed up than I could
ever tolerate, and I know of specific examples where people
came screaming at his guys blaming them for inop audio panels...
only to find out later that things like jacks were mis-wired,
causing the issues. So like Michael said, I think it's pretty
normal for them to want to require a purchased or custom harness.
Everything a person needs to know is usually
in the avionics manuals, and PS has some of the best manuals
there are as far as interconnect diagrams go. But still,
it takes a very diligent reader and some hard studying for
an amateur to figure it out. It's complicated stuff.
I spend a bunch of time supporting apps and networks and users,
and I'll tell you what, it gets frustrating. I can't blame them
for their warranty position. I just approach it from the angle
that I shouldn't be doing it unless I'm willing to work
hard enough to do it right.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Tony Babb wrote:
> I have little to no sympathy for PS position I think the problems are
> completely of their own making and the solution is in their own hands.
> If their products are difficult to install then they should only sell
> through resellers who do installation or they should insist on a harness
> being purchased, or insist on customers taking a training course. Seems
> to me they want it both ways - additional revenue by selling direct to
> any retail customer with a credit card and low service level costs
> assuming they're selling through qualified installers.
>
> Back in the early days of PCs there were numerous issues with customers
> buying PCs direct from manufacturers and then not being able to assemble
> them. Some manufacturers referred customers to the cheapest tech support
> they could find ( usually off-shore with a heavy accent following a
> script) and others stepped up to the plate and provided very simple
> color diagrams - with only numbers and pictures with no text
> descriptions that matched the color coded connectors and cables. Guess
> which manufacturers are still around today.....
>
> If you know that your customers are going to be challenged to install
> your stuff then you have to look at the whole customer experience - a
> flashy stand at Oshkosh doesn't cut it any more - well designed products
> with documentation that matches the expected experience level of your
> customers. If you can't do that then get out of the business or you will
> be overtaken by those who will.
>
> Tony
> Velocty SEFG 62% done, 78% to go
> www.alejandra.net/velocity <http://www.alejandra.net/velocity>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2009 2:39 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: The Obvious
>
> Thats a standard response from PS and I cant really blame them.
> They have had lots of intercoms that were toasted by users
> installing their equipment and then trying to return them saying
> its PSs fault. Solution to this is require a harness. Seems a
> level headed requirement rather than not supporting guys like us.
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *David & Elaine Lamphere
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2009 4:49 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: The Obvious
>
>
>
> You know, sometimes the obvious can be the most hidden.... I've been
> wrestling with a new intercom (PS1000II) that would stop working
> when the headset microphone was plugged in. All the wiring checked
> out, I disconnected it from the radio and everything I could - still
> it wouldn't work. Definitely didn't get any help from the
> manufacturer - His email response was anything but friendly or
> helpful. After a warning message, he just said to read the FAQ's.
>
>
>
> Homebuilders beware, PS Engineering's stand is (here is the exact
> quote):
>
>
>
> /"Who did the installation?"/
>
> /"If not installed by a PS Engineering dealer or a PS Engineering
> custom harness not purchased, the warranty is void."/
>
>
>
> When all I wanted was some information and suggestions how to proceed.
>
> Would I buy anything more from these guys - no way!
>
>
>
> Anyway, 12 hrs into the pursuit, the problem turns out that the mike
> key and audio hi wires were connected to the wrong jack pins - on
> each mike jack (pilot, co-pilot, aux).
>
>
>
> On a microphone plug the tip is the mike key connection - NOT the
> center band like I thought. So obvious and yet so hidden... I'll bet
> more than one person has been bit by this misunderstanding! How come
> THAT wasn't in the FAQ's - eh?
>
>
>
>
>
> Now I have to reinstall that harness!
>
>
>
>
>
> Dave L.
>
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *<>*
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 19
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Good Evening Tim and All,
I find that PS Engineering is about the easiest supplier to work with of an
y
that I have ever used.
I am currently finishing the wiring on the third PSE installation that I
have utilized. As always, one step at a time and carefully following the
drawing gets the job done.
As you say, wiring a complete intercomm is NOT a trivial task. Every time I
make a dumb mistake, the PSE folks have been most gracious in trying to help
me solve my problem.
Have you ever tried to talk to Garmin about anything?
I not only think PS Engineering has the finest intercomm available on the
market, I also feel they are the very best when it comes to service or help
for
we dummies!
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/18/2009 8:24:59 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
Tim@MyRV10.com writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>
Boy I don't know, the audio panel is about the most complex item
in a panel to wire. I know it's about the largest and most
complex wired item in my plane. I'm really glad they do provide
the diagrams and I am allowed to wire it myself, but I certainly
wouldn't want to be on their end having to provide support to
the untrained. I know Stein spends WAY more time in his business
helping amateurs figure out what they screwed up than I could
ever tolerate, and I know of specific examples where people
came screaming at his guys blaming them for inop audio panels...
only to find out later that things like jacks were mis-wired,
causing the issues. So like Michael said, I think it's pretty
normal for them to want to require a purchased or custom harness.
Everything a person needs to know is usually
in the avionics manuals, and PS has some of the best manuals
there are as far as interconnect diagrams go. But still,
it takes a very diligent reader and some hard studying for
an amateur to figure it out. It's complicated stuff.
I spend a bunch of time supporting apps and networks and users,
and I'll tell you what, it gets frustrating. I can't blame them
for their warranty position. I just approach it from the angle
that I shouldn't be doing it unless I'm willing to work
hard enough to do it right.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Tony Babb wrote:
> I have little to no sympathy for PS position I think the problems are
> completely of their own making and the solution is in their own hands.
> If their products are difficult to install then they should only sell
> through resellers who do installation or they should insist on a harness
> being purchased, or insist on customers taking a training course. Seems
> to me they want it both ways - additional revenue by selling direct to
> any retail customer with a credit card and low service level costs
> assuming they're selling through qualified installers.
>
> Back in the early days of PCs there were numerous issues with customers
> buying PCs direct from manufacturers and then not being able to assemble
> them. Some manufacturers referred customers to the cheapest tech support
> they could find ( usually off-shore with a heavy accent following a
> script) and others stepped up to the plate and provided very simple
> color diagrams - with only numbers and pictures with no text
> descriptions that matched the color coded connectors and cables. Guess
> which manufacturers are still around today.....
>
> If you know that your customers are going to be challenged to install
> your stuff then you have to look at the whole customer experience - a
> flashy stand at Oshkosh doesn't cut it any more - well designed products
> with documentation that matches the expected experience level of your
> customers. If you can't do that then get out of the business or you will
> be overtaken by those who will.
>
> Tony
> Velocty SEFG 62% done, 78% to go
> www.alejandra.net/velocity <http://www.alejandra.net/velocity>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2009 2:39 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: The Obvious
>
> That=99s a standard response from PS and I can=99t really
blame them.
> They have had lots of intercoms that were toasted by users
> installing their equipment and then trying to return them saying
> it=99s PS=99s fault. Solution to this is require a harne
ss. Seems a
> level headed requirement rather than not supporting guys like us.
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *David & Elaine Lamphere
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2009 4:49 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: The Obvious
>
>
>
> You know, sometimes the obvious can be the most hidden.... I've been
> wrestling with a new intercom (PS1000II) that would stop working
> when the headset microphone was plugged in. All the wiring checked
> out, I disconnected it from the radio and everything I could - still
> it wouldn't work. Definitely didn't get any help from the
> manufacturer - His email response was anything but friendly or
> helpful. After a warning message, he just said to read the FAQ's.
>
>
>
> Homebuilders beware, PS Engineering's stand is (here is the exact
> quote):
>
>
>
> /"Who did the installation?"/
>
> /"If not installed by a PS Engineering dealer or a PS Engineering
> custom harness not purchased, the warranty is void."/
>
>
>
> When all I wanted was some information and suggestions how to proceed
.
>
> Would I buy anything more from these guys - no way!
>
>
>
> Anyway, 12 hrs into the pursuit, the problem turns out that the mike
> key and audio hi wires were connected to the wrong jack pins - on
> each mike jack (pilot, co-pilot, aux).
>
>
>
> On a microphone plug the tip is the mike key connection - NOT the
> center band like I thought. So obvious and yet so hidden... I'll bet
> more than one person has been bit by this misunderstanding! How come
> THAT wasn't in the FAQ's - eh?
>
>
>
>
>
> Now I have to reinstall that harness!
>
>
>
>
>
> Dave L.
>
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *<>*
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics..co
m/c
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
**************Great Deals on Dell 15" Laptops - Starting at $479
ttp:%2F%2Fad.doub
leclick.net%2Fclk%3B212935224%3B34245239%3Bb)
Message 20
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For many years I worked in QA for office products and the aircraft industry
.
It never ceased to amaze me how companies will become so entrenched in thei
r
way of doing things that they fail to take a step back and analyze the cost
s
of problems like these in terms of service and ill will. Taken in that ligh
t
I'd bet dollars to donuts they'd find it was actually cheaper to bundle the
harness with the intercom even without a price increase over the cost of th
e
intercom alone.
Rick
On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 8:20 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>
> Boy I don't know, the audio panel is about the most complex item
> in a panel to wire. I know it's about the largest and most
> complex wired item in my plane. I'm really glad they do provide
> the diagrams and I am allowed to wire it myself, but I certainly
> wouldn't want to be on their end having to provide support to
> the untrained. I know Stein spends WAY more time in his business
> helping amateurs figure out what they screwed up than I could
> ever tolerate, and I know of specific examples where people
> came screaming at his guys blaming them for inop audio panels...
> only to find out later that things like jacks were mis-wired,
> causing the issues. So like Michael said, I think it's pretty
> normal for them to want to require a purchased or custom harness.
> Everything a person needs to know is usually
> in the avionics manuals, and PS has some of the best manuals
> there are as far as interconnect diagrams go. But still,
> it takes a very diligent reader and some hard studying for
> an amateur to figure it out. It's complicated stuff.
> I spend a bunch of time supporting apps and networks and users,
> and I'll tell you what, it gets frustrating. I can't blame them
> for their warranty position. I just approach it from the angle
> that I shouldn't be doing it unless I'm willing to work
> hard enough to do it right.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Tony Babb wrote:
>
>> I have little to no sympathy for PS position I think the problems are
>> completely of their own making and the solution is in their own hands. I
f
>> their products are difficult to install then they should only sell throu
gh
>> resellers who do installation or they should insist on a harness being
>> purchased, or insist on customers taking a training course. Seems to me
they
>> want it both ways - additional revenue by selling direct to any retail
>> customer with a credit card and low service level costs assuming they're
>> selling through qualified installers.
>> Back in the early days of PCs there were numerous issues with customers
>> buying PCs direct from manufacturers and then not being able to assemble
>> them. Some manufacturers referred customers to the cheapest tech support
>> they could find ( usually off-shore with a heavy accent following a scri
pt)
>> and others stepped up to the plate and provided very simple color diagra
ms -
>> with only numbers and pictures with no text descriptions that matched th
e
>> color coded connectors and cables. Guess which manufacturers are still
>> around today.....
>> If you know that your customers are going to be challenged to install
>> your stuff then you have to look at the whole customer experience - a fl
ashy
>> stand at Oshkosh doesn't cut it any more - well designed products with
>> documentation that matches the expected experience level of your custome
rs.
>> If you can't do that then get out of the business or you will be overtak
en
>> by those who will.
>> Tony
>> Velocty SEFG 62% done, 78% to go
>> www.alejandra.net/velocity <http://www.alejandra.net/velocity>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>> *RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2009 2:39 PM
>> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: The Obvious
>>
>> That=92s a standard response from PS and I can=92t really blame the
m.
>> They have had lots of intercoms that were toasted by users
>> installing their equipment and then trying to return them saying
>> it=92s PS=92s fault. Solution to this is require a harness. Seems a
>> level headed requirement rather than not supporting guys like us.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>> *David & Elaine Lamphere
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2009 4:49 PM
>> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: The Obvious
>>
>>
>> You know, sometimes the obvious can be the most hidden.... I've been
>> wrestling with a new intercom (PS1000II) that would stop working
>> when the headset microphone was plugged in. All the wiring checked
>> out, I disconnected it from the radio and everything I could - still
>> it wouldn't work. Definitely didn't get any help from the
>> manufacturer - His email response was anything but friendly or
>> helpful. After a warning message, he just said to read the FAQ's.
>>
>>
>> Homebuilders beware, PS Engineering's stand is (here is the exact
>> quote):
>>
>>
>> /"Who did the installation?"/
>>
>> /"If not installed by a PS Engineering dealer or a PS Engineering
>> custom harness not purchased, the warranty is void."/
>>
>>
>> When all I wanted was some information and suggestions how to proceed
.
>>
>> Would I buy anything more from these guys - no way!
>>
>>
>> Anyway, 12 hrs into the pursuit, the problem turns out that the mike
>> key and audio hi wires were connected to the wrong jack pins - on
>> each mike jack (pilot, co-pilot, aux).
>>
>>
>> On a microphone plug the tip is the mike key connection - NOT the
>> center band like I thought. So obvious and yet so hidden... I'll bet
>> more than one person has been bit by this misunderstanding! How come
>> THAT wasn't in the FAQ's - eh?
>>
>>
>>
>> Now I have to reinstall that harness!
>>
>>
>>
>> Dave L.
>>
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *<>*
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>
>> **
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
>> http://www.matronics.com/c
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
>
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>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone with a KR22 Marker Beacon pinout? |
Hi All,
I'm in the process of cleaning up the panel on my airplane. The panel is IFR equipped
and has a marker beacon receiver. I'm not yet IFR rated, but I didn't want
to diminish my IFR panel. I was not aware that the marker beacon receiver
was no longer part of the IFR procedures here in the US. The plane only flies
in the US. So what's the story...Should I just remove the unit?
--Jose
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235193#235193
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone with a KR22 Marker Beacon pinout? |
Good Evening Jose,
That is undoubtedly a controversial discussion.
My inclination is to eliminate the marker beacon receiver, though, just like
many other folks, I like the friendly tones of the marker beacons when they
are being flown over. It is comforting and familiar.
Up until a few years ago, the marker beacon was a required portion of the
ILS system. That is no longer the case. The marker beacon is NOT a required
portion of the ILS and the minima does not change if you are or are not
equipped with such a receiver.
To my knowledge, there is only one non precision approach in the USA that
has a step down fix based on crossing a marker. That is the circling approach
from the (LOC-D, KSEE) localizer approach at Gillespie Field, San Diego, CA.
The last time I checked, that marker was out of service awaiting parts for a
repair. If you are equipped with an IFR approved GPS and a current datacard,
you can check passing over the marker beacon utilizing the GPS and use the
minima associated with that marker.
I would save the space, power, weight, and cost by leaving the marker beacon
off the airplane.
Does anyone on the list know of any other approach where any lower minima
can be flown by having a marker beacon available?
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/18/2009 9:38:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
skyeyecorp@airpost.net writes:
Hi All,
I'm in the process of cleaning up the panel on my airplane. The panel is IFR
equipped and has a marker beacon receiver. I'm not yet IFR rated, but I
didn't want to diminish my IFR panel. I was not aware that the marker beacon
receiver was no longer part of the IFR procedures here in the US. The plane only
flies in the US. So what's the story...Should I just remove the unit?
--Jose
**************Great Deals on Dell 15" Laptops - Starting at $479
leclick.net%2Fclk%3B212935224%3B34245239%3Bb)
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone with a KR22 Marker Beacon pinout? |
Good Evening Once Again Jose,
On reading my last post to you, I think I did not state the case very well.
If you do not have an IFR GPS approved for at least enroute and terminal
purposes, there may be a few more non precision approaches where a marker beacon
may allow a lower minima.
As I said before, the normal ILS no longer requires a marker beacon. There
may be such a requirement for some Category II and III approaches and there are
a few non precision approaches where a marker beacon will allow a step down
with lower minima.
The point I wish to make is that at those very few places where the marker
beacon does provide for a step down, the GPS can be used in lieu of the marker
beacon. Those spots are few and far between. The beacons are being removed
as other fixes are found for those step down fixes.
Make any sense at all?
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/18/2009 10:25:28 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
BobsV35B@aol.com writes:
Good Evening Jose,
That is undoubtedly a controversial discussion.
My inclination is to eliminate the marker beacon receiver, though, just like
many other folks, I like the friendly tones of the marker beacons when they
are being flown over. It is comforting and familiar.
Up until a few years ago, the marker beacon was a required portion of the
ILS system. That is no longer the case. The marker beacon is NOT a required
portion of the ILS and the minima does not change if you are or are not
equipped with such a receiver.
To my knowledge, there is only one non precision approach in the USA that
has a step down fix based on crossing a marker. That is the circling approach
from the (LOC-D, KSEE) localizer approach at Gillespie Field, San Diego, CA.
The last time I checked, that marker was out of service awaiting parts for a
repair. If you are equipped with an IFR approved GPS and a current datacard,
you can check passing over the marker beacon utilizing the GPS and use the
minima associated with that marker.
I would save the space, power, weight, and cost by leaving the marker beacon
off the airplane.
Does anyone on the list know of any other approach where any lower minima
can be flown by having a marker beacon available?
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/18/2009 9:38:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
skyeyecorp@airpost.net writes:
Hi All,
I'm in the process of cleaning up the panel on my airplane. The panel is IFR
equipped and has a marker beacon receiver. I'm not yet IFR rated, but I
didn't want to diminish my IFR panel. I was not aware that the marker beacon
receiver was no longer part of the IFR procedures here in the US. The plane only
flies in the US. So what's the story...Should I just remove the unit?
--Jose
____________________________________
Great Deals on Dell 15" Laptops - Starting at $479
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Great Deals on Dell 15" Laptops - Starting at $479
leclick.net%2Fclk%3B212935224%3B34245239%3Bb)
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