---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/25/09: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:52 AM - Re: Re: Hall effect sensors under the cowl? () 2. 08:10 AM - Re: Re: System Objectives (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 08:10 AM - "Hockey Puck" GPS receiver that uses RS-232 (Glaeser, Dennis A) 4. 08:41 AM - Re: Z-19 + Ford regulator killing batteries? (Charles Brame) 5. 08:43 AM - Re: "Hockey Puck" GPS receiver that uses RS-232 (Michael W Stewart) 6. 08:58 AM - Re: "Hockey Puck" GPS receiver that uses RS-232 (Etienne Phillips) 7. 08:59 AM - Re: "Hockey Puck" GPS receiver that uses RS-232 (jaybannist@cs.com) 8. 10:10 AM - Re: glideslope antenna was lower OM minima (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 11:14 AM - Ray Allen stick grip wired up to control 6 items with just 1 relay (rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US) 10. 11:15 AM - Re: "Hockey Puck" GPS receiver that uses RS-232 (Glaeser, Dennis A) 11. 11:57 AM - Re: isolation circuit (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 12:13 PM - Re: Re: "Hockey Puck" GPS receiver that uses RS-232 (Etienne Phillips) 13. 12:56 PM - Re: "Hockey Puck" GPS receiver that uses RS-232 (Normand Biron) 14. 12:57 PM - Re: isolation circuit (James Neely) 15. 01:02 PM - Re: isolation circuit (jamesneely) 16. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: isolation circuit (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 17. 08:03 PM - Re: isolation circuit (jamesneely) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:42 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Hall effect sensors under the cowl? From: I have a dual LSE ignition with two hall effect sensors mounted right on the engine. They even have LED lights on them. Can't get more forward than that. I'm installing the AF 3500 too, so guess where theirs will be going? I also have 13/8 with a second battery added to help make things more confusing. Just so we don't damage anything perhaps we can find out the upper limit for operating temperatures on that sensor. If you are really worried but really need to mount it on the firewall because of space or whatever you could find a shroud for it and run a cold air scat tube to it. Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 3:03 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Hall effect sensors under the cowl? >Slightly off topic, but I notice a Hall Effect sensor (S5) that >appears to be on the forward side of the firewall. I am installing >an AFS 3500 with a Hall Effect sensor and two alternators ala >Z-13/8. I would like to keep all of the alternator and regulator >stuff firewall forward but the EMS wants the Hall sensor on the >cabin side. Is there any problem with the Hall sensor living on the firewall? The hall-sensor is an electronic device with some temperature effects for both calibration and upper limits for operating temperatures. The automotive industry has been running these critters under the hood for years. I can't speak to the science for EMS recommendations. I suspect the real risks to satisfactory performance are insignificant. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:29 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: System Objectives At 01:38 PM 2/17/2009, you wrote: > > >We're planning to use dual LSE Plasma III's and all glass panels, >which is why we're leaning toward Z-14. Best I can tell P-mags are >not available for the six cylinder Lycoming. (?) > >I see my options as follows: install a small battery behind the >panel strictly for pre-start ops, or install the IPS device >suggested by Bob Newman. > >Bob, I am eager to see those checklists. I've found them. It's a collective document that speaks to all the Z-figures and needs some work yet. Z-14 though is pretty simple. Except for alternator out conditions (rare) and perhaps engine cranking, the cross feed contactor is OPEN. Under all other conditions, each system is a stand-alone power source that either is working (lv warning light out) or not. Assuming that there are electro-whizzies on the aux bus that you really, Really, REALLY need for comfortable completion of flight, then you cross feed from the main bus to the aux bus. If it's the fat alternator that quit, then you close cross feed contactor and load-shed both busses down to some value at or just below 100% load on the aux alternator. This is an activity that you can practice in flight. It's pretty straight forward and not terribly worthy of a special procedure in the emergency check lists. Recall that our design goals include maximizing failure tolerance and plan-A/plan-B procedures that prevent any failure from becoming an emergency. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:37 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: "Hockey Puck" GPS receiver that uses RS-232 From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" I'm trying to find a low cost, low profile GPS receiver that speaks RS-232 instead of USB. If anyone can point me toward one, I'd appreciate it. Everything I find uses USB. Background: I have a GRT Sport hooked up to a GNC300XL. Everything works great, but the 300XL does not send the date/time to the Sport. According to GRT, none of the panel mounted GPS's do (but all of the hand-held ones will - go figure). This means that the time display on the Sport is useless, and the Logbook function shows all my flights taking place on 1/1/2003. So, I figured I'd just hook up a second GPS - which the Sport supports. I bought a GPS 'hockey puck' receiver and it works great on my computer. When I hooked it up to the Sport, no go. When I asked GRT about that, they said even though the GPS is sending serial data, it is speaking USB, and the Sport only speaks RS-232. I got an 'RS-232 to USB conversion cable" (has electronics to convert the protocols) but haven't been able to make that work either. I did hook up a hand-held GPS receiver I have (an old Magellan 315) to the Sport, and that worked just fine, so I know what I want to do is possible, but I need a device that uses the right protocol. Either that or help making the conversion unit work. Thanks, Dennis Glaeser RV-7A Rochester Hills, MI ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:17 AM PST US From: Charles Brame Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 + Ford regulator killing batteries? My Ford regulator is adjustable. Mine was set at 13.8 volts. No problems so far. Charlie Brame RV-6A N11CB San Antonio -------------------------------------- Time: 12:01:39 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 + Ford regulator killing batteries? > No . . . the regulator has one responsibility only. HOLD the > bus at 14.2 to 14.6 volts under ALL conditions where the > alternator is turning fast enough to shoulder system load > AND recharge the battery. > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > So this suggests that the regulator has a problem. It is certainly > generating bus voltages in excess of 15.0v -- I have 2 devices which > display voltage & both agree within 1v of each other that voltages > are above 15. I can't imagine the regulator is adjustable, so it > must be a dud, correct? > > -------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------snip-------------------------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:55 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: "Hockey Puck" GPS receiver that uses RS-232 From: Michael W Stewart http://www.byonics.com/tinytrak/gps.php from their website. =============== The GPS2 has a female DB-9 connector to connect directly to the TinyTrak3Plus, is very sensitive, and is built with the SiRFstar III chipset. It has the same DB-9 connector as the GPS1. It features Wide A rea Augmentation System (WAAS) to provide unmatched accuracy and performanc e. It has an on-board rechargeable battery for fast satellite acquisition during power-up, and requires 5V to operate. Tracking up to 20 satellit es, the Byonics GPS2 can be used with almost every major mapping software ( NMEA 0183 v2.2 data protocol). The GPS2 unit comes with a 6 foot cable, an internal magnet for versati le mounting options, and is water resistant. It draws 65mA typically, and will work to an altitude of 18 km and spee d of 515 m/s. Weight is 3.6oz. See below for more stats. This is a 5 volt GPS. Do not connect this GPS to 12 volts or it will be destroyed. If using with a TinyTrak3Plus, configure J7 for 5 volts (the bottom two of three square pads soldered together). Do not use directly with a TinyTrak3 (non-Plus). If you have a TinyTrak3, you need a GPAC o r GPAP power adapter below. Byonics GPS2 - $69. The Byonics GPS2 employs the SiRF III chipset, sen ds NMEA data at 4800 baud, and is directly compatible with the TinyTrak3Pl us. Requires 5 volts DC. Pinout: 2 - Serial Out, 3 - Serial In (not normall y used), 4 - 5V Power in, 5 - Ground. Sends NMEA sentences: $GPGSA, $GPRM C, $GPGGA, $GPGSV. ================= Mike From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" To: Date: 03/25/2009 11:34 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: "Hockey Puck" GPS receiver that uses R S-232 Sent by: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com I'm trying to find a low cost, low profile GPS receiver that speaks RS- 232 instead of USB. If anyone can point me toward one, I'd appreciate it. Everything I find uses USB. Background: I have a GRT Sport hooked up to a GNC300XL. Everything wor ks great, but the 300XL does not send the date/time to the Sport. Accordi ng to GRT, none of the panel mounted GPS's do (but all of the hand-held on es will - go figure). This means that the time display on the Sport is useless, and the Logbook function shows all my flights taking place on 1/1/2003. So, I figured I'd just hook up a second GPS - which the Spor t supports. I bought a GPS 'hockey puck' receiver and it works great on my computer .. When I hooked it up to the Sport, no go. When I asked GRT about that, they said even though the GPS is sending serial data, it is speaking USB, an d the Sport only speaks RS-232. I got an 'RS-232 to USB conversion cable" (has electronics to convert the protocols) but haven't been able to make that work either. I did hook up a hand-held GPS receiver I have ( an old Magellan 315) to the Sport, and that worked just fine, so I know wh at I want to do is possible, but I need a device that uses the right protoco l. Either that or help making the conversion unit work. Thanks, Dennis Glaeser RV-7A Rochester Hills, MI ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:32 AM PST US From: Etienne Phillips Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: "Hockey Puck" GPS receiver that uses RS-232 Look at the garmin gps-12 range... Low cost and pretty reliable. There's a 5hz version that spits out 19200 baud, which probably won't work with most systems, so be careful! There is definitely an RS-232 9600 version in the list though. On 25 Mar 2009, at 4:57 PM, "Glaeser, Dennis A" wrote: > I'm trying to find a low cost, low profile GPS receiver that speaks > RS-232 instead of USB. If anyone can point me toward one, I'd > appreciate it. Everything I find uses USB. > > Background: I have a GRT Sport hooked up to a GNC300XL. Everything > works great, but the 300XL does not send the date/time to the > Sport. According to GRT, none of the panel mounted GPS's do (but > all of the hand-held ones will - go figure). This means that the > time display on the Sport is useless, and the Logbook function shows > all my flights taking place on 1/1/2003. So, I figured I'd just > hook up a second GPS - which the Sport supports. > > I bought a GPS 'hockey puck' receiver and it works great on my > computer. When I hooked it up to the Sport, no go. When I asked > GRT about that, they said even though the GPS is sending serial > data, it is speaking USB, and the Sport only speaks RS-232. I got > an 'RS-232 to USB conversion cable" (has electronics to convert the > protocols) but haven't been able to make that work either. I did > hook up a hand-held GPS receiver I have (an old Magellan 315) to the > Sport, and that worked just fine, so I know what I want to do is > possible, but I need a device that uses the right protocol. Either > that or help making the conversion unit work. > > Thanks, > > Dennis Glaeser > RV-7A Rochester Hills, MI > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:59:39 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: "Hockey Puck" GPS receiver that uses RS-232 From: jaybannist@cs.com Dennis, I bought a RS232 to USB converter cable from Radio Shack to communicate between my Dynon EMS and a laptop.? It never worked.? My son had one that did work and didn't even require the installation of special software.? I don't know offhand what his cable was, but I can find out if you want to go that way. Jay Bannister -----Original Message----- From: Glaeser, Dennis A Sent: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 9:57 am Subject: AeroElectric-List: "Hockey Puck" GPS receiver that uses RS-232 I'm trying to find a low cost, low profile GPS receiver that speaks RS-232 instead of USB.? If anyone can point me toward one, I'd appreciate it.? Everything I find uses USB. Background: I have a GRT Sport hooked up to a GNC300XL.? Everything works great, but the 300XL does not send the date/time to the Sport.? According to GRT, none of the panel mounted GPS's do (but all of the hand-held ones will - go figure).? This means that the time display on the Sport is useless, and the Logbook function shows all my flights taking place on 1/1/2003.? So, I figured I'd just hook up a second GPS - which the Sport supports. I bought a GPS 'hockey puck' receiver and it works great on my computer.? When I hooked it up to the Sport, no go.? When I asked GRT about that, they said even though the GPS is sending serial data, it is speaking USB, and the Sport only speaks RS-232.? I got an 'RS-232 to USB conversion cable" (has electronics to convert the protocols) but haven't been able to make that work either.? I did hook up a hand-held GPS receiver I have (an old Magellan 315) to the Sport, and that worked just fine, so I know what I want to do is possible, but I need a device that uses the right protocol.? Either that or help making the conversion unit work. Thanks, Dennis Glaeser RV-7A? Rochester Hills, MI ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:10:55 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: glideslope antenna was lower OM minima At 06:21 PM 3/24/2009, you wrote: > >Might look at a Comant CE193, It can mount on the windscreen center >post (if you have one). I am going to try it on my RV-10. It was a >salvage item for $38. >-Chris Lucas >RV-10, #40072 Before you hang whiskers on your airplane for the GS receiver, try a coupler. Keep in mind that ILS signals are beamed off the approach end of the runway, only have to be functional for perhaps 10 miles max and are VERY strong. A VOR/LOC antenna is an odd harmonic relationship with GS frequencies which makes it fairly efficient for both services. I'm 99% sure you'll find a single-antenna, coupler-feed pair of ILS receivers quite satisfactory. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:14:33 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ray Allen stick grip wired up to control 6 items with just 1 relay From: rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US Managed wiring up Ray Allen stick gripusing 1 relay, 2 diodes, a rotary switchand a 9 pin Radio Shack Molex connector to accomplish the following: ****Pitch trim ****Roll trim ****Manual control of Airmaster prop ****Audio panel PTT ****Audio panel recorder playback ****Switch from pilot to Co-Pilot control of pitch trim, roll trim and Airmaster manual prop control Was going to use a 9 pin D-sub to fit inside the 1" OD (7/8" ID) stick, but liked the 9 pin Molex from Radio Shack better for a number of reasons: ****Easier to remove pins ****Fit of plug when you mutilate corners a little is a perfect fit ****Snug fit requires no holdemtogether Details: http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album284&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:15:14 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: "Hockey Puck" GPS receiver that uses RS-232 From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" Thanks everyone for the quick responses. Better results in 10 minutes than a few hours doing searches! Lesson learned :-) Mike - thanks for the Byonics link. Their stuff never came up on any search. Just ordered one. Etienne - the gps-12 is more than I need. I want just the receiver. Jay - I was hoping the cable I got was like your son's, but apparently not. Hopefully the Byonics GPS will work and solve the problem. I'll get back to you if I need to get the info on your son's cable. Thanks again! Dennis ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:57:25 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: isolation circuit At 02:17 PM 3/24/2009, you wrote: > >I have a flightline fl-760 and the manual says that both mikes go >hot on transmit. That doesn't seem a like a great idea, >particularly in a noisy cockpit. They mention an optional isolation >relay board, but apparently they never did produce it, so I have to >make up my own. >The problem is that while I can solder just fine, I suck at >designing circuits. Has anyone made one of these boards, or has a >schematic that I can work from? or any source for buying such beast? Are you using the hot-mic intercom feature . . . or is it just a comm transceiver? Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:13:31 PM PST US From: Etienne Phillips Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: "Hockey Puck" GPS receiver that uses RS-232 Once again, my fingers over-took my brain. The GPS 12 is indeed not only way more than you're looking for, but is actually discontinued! I had the GPS 18-PC in mind (and in my aircraft). 12V, RS-232, puck with magnetic mounting base: https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=158&pID=223 On 25 Mar 2009, at 7:44 PM, Glaeser, Dennis A wrote: > Thanks everyone for the quick responses. Better results in 10 > minutes than a few hours doing searches! Lesson learned :-) > > Mike - thanks for the Byonics link. Their stuff never came up on > any search. Just ordered one. > Etienne - the gps-12 is more than I need. I want just the receiver. > Jay - I was hoping the cable I got was like your son's, but > apparently not. Hopefully the Byonics GPS will work and solve the > problem. I'll get back to you if I need to get the info on your > son's cable. > > Thanks again! > > Dennis ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:56:56 PM PST US From: "Normand Biron" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: "Hockey Puck" GPS receiver that uses RS-232 The Garmin GNC250XL is a panel mount unit that sends date/time information. Norm Original Message ----- From: Etienne Phillips To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:49 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: "Hockey Puck" GPS receiver that uses RS-232 Look at the garmin gps-12 range... Low cost and pretty reliable. There's a 5hz version that spits out 19200 baud, which probably won't work with most systems, so be careful! There is definitely an RS-232 9600 version in the list though. On 25 Mar 2009, at 4:57 PM, "Glaeser, Dennis A" > wrote: I'm trying to find a low cost, low profile GPS receiver that speaks RS-232 instead of USB. If anyone can point me toward one, I'd appreciate it. Everything I find uses USB. Background: I have a GRT Sport hooked up to a GNC300XL. Everything works great, but the 300XL does not send the date/time to the Sport. According to GRT, none of the panel mounted GPS's do (but all of the hand-held ones will - go figure). This means that the time display on the Sport is useless, and the Logbook function shows all my flights taking place on 1/1/2003. So, I figured I'd just hook up a second GPS - which the Sport supports. I bought a GPS 'hockey puck' receiver and it works great on my computer. When I hooked it up to the Sport, no go. When I asked GRT about that, they said even though the GPS is sending serial data, it is speaking USB, and the Sport only speaks RS-232. I got an 'RS-232 to USB conversion cable" (has electronics to convert the protocols) but haven't been able to make that work either. I did hook up a hand-held GPS receiver I have (an old Magellan 315) to the Sport, and that worked just fine, so I know what I want to do is possible, but I need a device that uses the right protocol. Either that or help making the conversion unit work. Thanks, Dennis Glaeser RV-7A Rochester Hills, MI http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:28 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: isolation circuit From: James Neely I'm using the vox intercom feature. That part seems to work great, so I'd like to use it. James 2009/3/25 Robert L. Nuckolls, III > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 02:17 PM 3/24/2009, you wrote: > >> neelyjame@gmail.com> >> >> I have a flightline fl-760 and the manual says that both mikes go hot on >> transmit. That doesn't seem a like a great idea, particularly in a noisy >> cockpit. They mention an optional isolation relay board, but apparently >> they never did produce it, so I have to make up my own. >> The problem is that while I can solder just fine, I suck at designing >> circuits. Has anyone made one of these boards, or has a schematic that I >> can work from? or any source for buying such beast? >> > > Are you using the hot-mic intercom feature . . . or > is it just a comm transceiver? > > > Bob . . . > > ----------------------------------------) > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > ---------------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:02:44 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: isolation circuit From: "jamesneely" I'm using the vox feature. works great on the bench. I'm not sure you can turn that feature off in this radio. Would it work if I just put a relay in to disconnect the copilot mike on transmit..breaks the connection from the copilot mike to pin #3? And at the same time grounds pin #7 (the transmit PTT)? There will only be one PTT[/list] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236130#236130 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fl_760_wiring_diagram_179.jpg ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:44 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: isolation circuit At 02:47 PM 3/25/2009, you wrote: > >I'm using the vox feature. works great on the bench. I'm not sure >you can turn that feature off in this radio. >Would it work if I just put a relay in to disconnect the copilot >mike on transmit..breaks the connection from the copilot mike to pin >#3? And at the same time grounds pin #7 (the transmit PTT)? > >There will only be one PTT[/list] That would work. Check out this relay: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId 62483 Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:42 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: isolation circuit From: "jamesneely" Thanks Bob, but I'm not having any luck with that product ID. Which relay is it? There's a dpdt miniature part #275-249 James Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236174#236174 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.