---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/30/09: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:43 AM - Re: E-bus relay (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 06:48 AM - Re: PA-22 system (BobsV35B@aol.com) 3. 07:27 AM - Re: PA-22 system (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 11:09 AM - Re: "Hockey Puck" GPS receiver that uses RS-232 (Greg Young) 5. 11:59 AM - Re: "Hockey Puck" GPS receiver that uses RS-232 (Glaeser, Dennis A) 6. 01:25 PM - Re: SD-8 Components on Firewall? (rckol) 7. 05:59 PM - Re: PA-22 system (jetech) 8. 06:34 PM - Re: Rotax 912ULS starter (Les Goldner) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:27 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: E-bus relay At 10:46 PM 3/29/2009, you wrote: > >Bob... > >I see on some Z schematics you are suggesting a relay to switch the >E-bus alt. feed. My thought is that this adds another failure >mode. I don't know what the drop out voltage is for the 701 relay >but might it drop out before the battery goes completely dead when >that last couple of minutes of battery life could be crucial? Why >wouldn't using a both poles of a two pole e-bus alt. feed toggle >switch be sufficient to carry 20 amps instead of the relay? 12v relays will stay engaged long after the battery is gone. A 12v battery is 95+ percent used up at 10.5 volts. A typical 12v relay drops at under 4 volts. Further the relay is used to provide REMOTE control of a potentially, always-hot feeder to the e-bus from the battery bus. It's like a mini-battery contactor effecting LOCAL control of the alternate feed path AT THE BATTERY BUS. It becomes advisable when the e-bus alternate feed fuse goes over 7A . . . which is 2A greater than the "rule from dark places" suggesting: "long, always-hot feeders should be protected at 5A or less." The 5A suggestion is in consideration of the response time for breakers. Fuses are so much faster than breakers that I've suggested we can go up to 7A . . . but if you want to go higher . . . it's up to you and depending on whence your own "rule" arises. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:36 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PA-22 system Good Morning jetech, Just out of curiosity, do you plan on getting a local FAA approval via the 337 route for that modification or do you think it meets the criteria for a minor alteration? Happy Skies Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator 628 West 86th Street Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 In a message dated 3/26/2009 6:54:02 P.M. Central Daylight Time, av8tor@hughes.net writes: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "jetech" After looking at the Z-13/8 schematic and trying to figure out the best layout for the old tripacer I think I am close to having a initial plan. For those not familiar with the PA-22, there is an electrical box mounted under the pilots seat on the front side of the seat structure. This box houses the original starter contactor, start button, regulator, and some fuses. The battery is located under the co-pilots seat. I would like to fit the batt bus (FH-6 block), Batt contactor, Starter contactor, push to start, alternator current limiter, two shunts main/aux, and the relay for the HD E-buss circuit under the seat. The push to start circuit will be hooked from the main bus side of the batt contactor to a CB then to the starter contactor. The CB will also be with the under seat components. We removed the original brake cylinder from under the pilots seat so I am trying to figure out the best method to get these components under the seat. I would like to find some avionics tray slides and fit everything on a slide out tray, width would be limited but there would be some depth. The starter and alternator cables will run forward 70" and 80" to their units (Sky-tec and L-40). The The behind the panel components will be the main buss, E-bus, and F1 test receptacle. On the cabin side of the firewall will be the main controller/regulator (LR3C-14), Aux regulator (PMR1C and OV kit), and ground system (GB24). The battery will have its original local ground. I have a question: Can the circuit that runs from the SD-8 shunt to the batt side of the batt contactor instead be fused at the batt bus using an ATC fuse? I welcome any suggestions to what I have planned so far. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236301#236301 **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoc lk/100126575x1220439616x1201372437/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:56 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PA-22 system At 06:50 PM 3/26/2009, you wrote: > >After looking at the Z-13/8 schematic and trying to figure out the >best layout for the old tripacer I think I am close to having a initial plan. > >For those not familiar with the PA-22, there is an electrical box >mounted under the pilots seat on the front side of the seat >structure. This box houses the original starter contactor, start >button, regulator, and some fuses. The battery is located under the >co-pilots seat. > >I would like to fit the batt bus (FH-6 block), Batt contactor, >Starter contactor, push to start, alternator current limiter, two >shunts main/aux, and the relay for the HD E-buss circuit under the >seat. The push to start circuit will be hooked from the main bus >side of the batt contactor to a CB then to the starter contactor. >The CB will also be with the under seat components. > >We removed the original brake cylinder from under the pilots seat so >I am trying to figure out the best method to get these components >under the seat. I would like to find some avionics tray slides and >fit everything on a slide out tray, width would be limited but there >would be some depth. > >The starter and alternator cables will run forward 70" and 80" to >their units (Sky-tec and L-40). The > >The behind the panel components will be the main buss, E-bus, and F1 >test receptacle. > >On the cabin side of the firewall will be the main >controller/regulator (LR3C-14), Aux regulator (PMR1C and OV kit), >and ground system (GB24). > >The battery will have its original local ground. > >I have a question: >Can the circuit that runs from the SD-8 shunt to the batt side of >the batt contactor instead be fused at the batt bus using an ATC fuse? > >I welcome any suggestions to what I have planned so far. Before we launch into details of the implementation, have you flown your proposal by the local FAA and enlisted the assistance of an AI? I had a customer some years ago with a very nice Tri-Pacer but with a threadbare, arcane and minimalist electrical system. He wanted to put Z13/8 in the airplane. He might as well have wanted to replace the engine with a turbofan. The system was going to cost about $1200 in parts to install . . . and $50K or so in paperwork to get an STC. He ended up putting an L40 on with a 337 and rewired all the original hardware with 22759. That only cost him $2000. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:09:38 AM PST US From: "Greg Young" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: "Hockey Puck" GPS receiver that uses RS-232 Wow, what a difference a GPS makes! After looking at that ugly, black, useless map page on the bench and then in the plane I'd been unimpressed with GRT's map. Now I have color, airports, runways and functionality I hadn't seen before. It just doesn't demo well without a working GPS. Although I plan on using my GX-60 GPS it's not hooked up yet. So I ordered the Byonics GPS2 to use while building and later as a backup. I got it hooked up this weekend and it's wonderful. It's well worth the $75 (incl shipping) just to have everything work on the bench. Thanks for the reference. Regards, Greg Young - Houston (DWH) RV-6 N6GY - project Phoenix Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael W Stewart Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:38 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: "Hockey Puck" GPS receiver that uses RS-232 http://www.byonics.com/tinytrak/gps.php from their website. =============== The GPS2 has a female DB-9 connector to connect directly to the TinyTrak3Plus, is very sensitive, and is built with the SiRFstar III chipset. It has the same DB-9 connector as the GPS1. It features Wide Area Augmentation System (WAAS) to provide unmatched accuracy and performance. It has an on-board rechargeable battery for fast satellite acquisition during power-up, and requires 5V to operate. Tracking up to 20 satellites, the Byonics GPS2 can be used with almost every major mapping software (NMEA 0183 v2.2 data protocol). The GPS2 unit comes with a 6 foot cable, an internal magnet for versatile mounting options, and is water resistant. It draws 65mA typically, and will work to an altitude of 18 km and speed of 515 m/s. Weight is 3.6oz. See below for more stats. This is a 5 volt GPS. Do not connect this GPS to 12 volts or it will be destroyed. If using with a TinyTrak3Plus, configure J7 for 5 volts (the bottom two of three square pads soldered together). Do not use directly with a TinyTrak3 (non-Plus). If you have a TinyTrak3, you need a GPAC or GPAP power adapter below. Byonics GPS2 - $69. The Byonics GPS2 employs the SiRF III chipset, sends NMEA data at 4800 baud, and is directly compatible with the TinyTrak3Plus. Requires 5 volts DC. Pinout: 2 - Serial Out, 3 - Serial In (not normally used), 4 - 5V Power in, 5 - Ground. Sends NMEA sentences: $GPGSA, $GPRMC, $GPGGA, $GPGSV. ================= Mike ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:59:31 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: "Hockey Puck" GPS receiver that uses RS-232 From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" Got my Byronics GPS unit and hooked it up yesterday - works great! I was even able to pry the case apart so I could remove the magnet, because I have it located on the glareshield in front of the Mag Compass. Another problem solved by the AeroElectric list. Dennis Glaeser ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:25:46 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: SD-8 Components on Firewall? From: "rckol" Thanks Bob, interesting food for thought. -------- rck Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236910#236910 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:40 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: PA-22 system From: "jetech" We plan to present an entire package to the FAA for the electrical upgrade including removing the vacuum pump and installing the SD-8. I am still compiling the information to make the best argument we can. We will take whatever route they advise as far as paperwork is concerned. Bob I am going on your recommendation to present a detailed paperwork package that will hopefully put put things in our favor. This is our company airplane, we are an aircraft maintenance business, My partner is an IA and DAR so the paperwork will be free as long as an STC isn't involved. We hope it will all be done on 337. Our desire is to update this plane and pave the way for others to do the same. If approved we will post the paperwork on the short wing piper club site so others can use it without cost just as Bob has. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236955#236955 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:31 PM PST US From: "Les Goldner" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Rotax 912ULS starter I'll could check next time I'm out, but my amperage draw should be lower than yours due to much reduced stress on the 912 starter from an aftermarket spark retard mod. I got mine from Lockwood Aviation. It retards the spark to TDC during startup so that the starter does not have to overcome the backwards push of cylinders firing before TDC. Really makes a difference and protects the engine from jerking backwards when you let go of the starter button. Les -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of icrashrc Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 4:03 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Rotax 912ULS starter Does anyone know the amp draw on the newer model 912 ULS starter? -------- Scott www.ill-EagleAviation.com do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236618#236618 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.