---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/31/09: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:02 AM - Re: E-bus relay (Chris Stone) 2. 07:04 AM - 400W/420W/430W Power cable () 3. 07:04 AM - Re: GNS 430 question (Chris Stone) 4. 07:05 AM - Re: GNS 430 question (Chris Stone) 5. 07:39 AM - Re: 400W/420W/430W Power cable (BobsV35B@aol.com) 6. 12:42 PM - Re: Re: PA-22 system (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 01:41 PM - Impossible problem (jaybannist@cs.com) 8. 02:25 PM - Re: PA-22 system (jetech) 9. 05:38 PM - Re: 400W/420W/430W Power cable (Bill Mauledriver Watson) 10. 06:11 PM - Re: 400W/420W/430W Power cable (BobsV35B@aol.com) 11. 09:07 PM - Re: GNS 430 question (Robert McCallum) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:00 AM PST US From: Chris Stone Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: E-bus relay Bob... Thanks for your well reasoned reply. Chris >> >>Bob... >> >>I see on some Z schematics you are suggesting a relay to switch the >>E-bus alt. feed. My thought is that this adds another failure >>mode. I don't know what the drop out voltage is for the 701 relay >>but might it drop out before the battery goes completely dead when >>that last couple of minutes of battery life could be crucial? Why >>wouldn't using a both poles of a two pole e-bus alt. feed toggle >>switch be sufficient to carry 20 amps instead of the relay? > > 12v relays will stay engaged long after the battery > is gone. A 12v battery is 95+ percent used up at 10.5 > volts. A typical 12v relay drops at under 4 volts. > > Further the relay is used to provide REMOTE control > of a potentially, always-hot feeder to the e-bus > from the battery bus. It's like a mini-battery > contactor effecting LOCAL control of the alternate > feed path AT THE BATTERY BUS. > > It becomes advisable when the e-bus alternate feed > fuse goes over 7A . . . which is 2A greater > than the "rule from dark places" suggesting: "long, > always-hot feeders should be protected at 5A or less." > > The 5A suggestion is in consideration of the > response time for breakers. Fuses are so much > faster than breakers that I've suggested we > can go up to 7A . . . but if you want to go > higher . . . it's up to you and depending on > whence your own "rule" arises. > > > Bob . . . > > ----------------------------------------) > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > ---------------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:21 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: 400W/420W/430W Power cable 3/31/2009 Hello Robin Hou, You wrote: "I want to build a power cable so I can practice using my Garmin GNC 420W at home." I don't know what your practice will consist of, but wouldn't the free Garmin trainer serve that purpose better? See this for (very large) down load: https://buy.garmin.com/shop/store/downloadsUpdates.jsp?product=010-00412-01&cID=194&pID=301 I have this trainer on my computer and it works great -- probably better than anything that you could set up. 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." _________________________ Time: 04:07:30 PM PST US From: Robin Hou Subject: Avionics-List: 400W/420W/430W Power cable I want to build a power cable so I can practice using my Garmin GNC 420W at home. -I called Garmin and was told that I can order their $125 connecto r kit to build my cable. The GPS side uses a 78-pin connector that looks like a D-subminiature 78-pi n connector. -Mouser has them for around $10. -But Garmin tech told me that their connectors are not "computer connector" but "aviation connector" ; at $125, it sure feel like aviation grade and price. Would this work: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=EP%2f j%252b8r7ekpZ... - Thanks in advance. - Robin Hou ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:23 AM PST US From: Chris Stone Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GNS 430 question Bob... I have the 400 Series install manual 190-00356-02 Rev B dated November 2006. Page H-10 figure H-5 Power, lighting and antenna interconnect sheet 1 of 3. I have attached a PDF of the page. Also I see that your IM and my IM have different part numbers. Hmmmm? Chris Stone -----Original Message----- >From: Robert McCallum >Sent: Mar 30, 2009 2:15 AM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GNS 430 question > > >Chris; > >Not sure what you're looking at Chris. Rev M of the install manual Figure F-10 on page F-21 is the schematic for the typical installation of a GNS 430 and shows power through a 5A CB to pins 19, 20 on connector p4001 , power through a CB to pins 11, 12 of connector P4002(5A 28V or 10A 14V), and then pins 21, 22 of P4002, 77,78 of P4001, and 41 of P4006 all grounded. (no CB's) Where do you see CB's in the grounds? See page 108 of 132 at the following link. http://tinyurl.com/ccfsyq > >Bob McC > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris >Stone >Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 10:36 PM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: AeroElectric-List: GNS 430 question > > > >Hello Garmin experts... > >In reviewing the Garmin 430 install manual the power wiring diagram shows two 5 amp CBs on the 2 of 3 grounds. This is in addition to CBs on all the positive power supply lines. What does this accomplish? I can find nothing in the text that provides an explanation. > >Chris Stone >RV-8 >Newberg, OR > >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:23 AM PST US From: Chris Stone Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GNS 430 question Bob... This is the corect page from the Garmin IM 190-00356-02 Rev B November 2006 Chris > > >Chris; > >Not sure what you're looking at Chris. Rev M of the install manual Figure F-10 on page F-21 is the schematic for the typical installation of a GNS 430 and shows power through a 5A CB to pins 19, 20 on connector p4001 , power through a CB to pins 11, 12 of connector P4002(5A 28V or 10A 14V), and then pins 21, 22 of P4002, 77,78 of P4001, and 41 of P4006 all grounded. (no CB's) Where do you see CB's in the grounds? See page 108 of 132 at the following link. http://tinyurl.com/ccfsyq > >Bob McC > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris >Stone >Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 10:36 PM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: AeroElectric-List: GNS 430 question > > > >Hello Garmin experts... > >In reviewing the Garmin 430 install manual the power wiring diagram shows two 5 amp CBs on the 2 of 3 grounds. This is in addition to CBs on all the positive power supply lines. What does this accomplish? I can find nothing in the text that provides an explanation. > >Chris Stone >RV-8 >Newberg, OR > >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:36 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 400W/420W/430W Power cable Good Morning OC, I tend to agree with your suggestion and I do the same thing. One fly in the ointment does irk me somewhat. Garmin has not updated the database in the trainer for almost eighteen months. In the past, they have updated it almost every year. I like to go through approaches at home before I execute them for real. I have considered getting a docking station for my 430W just so I could practice while using a current database. I do that with the GNC 300XL that I have in my Stearman. I wish Garmin had been as kind to us with the 430W as they were with the GNC 300XL! If anyone cares to enlighten we electronic amateurs as to how to wire a 4 or 500 series Garmin box for simulated use. I would sure appreciate having that information. Happy Skies Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator 628 West 86th Street Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 In a message dated 3/31/2009 9:05:29 A.M. Central Daylight Time, bakerocb@cox.net writes: Hello Robin Hou, You wrote: "I want to build a power cable so I can practice using my Garmin GNC 420W at home." I don't know what your practice will consist of, but wouldn't the free Garmin trainer serve that purpose better? See this for (very large) down load: **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:42:43 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: PA-22 system At 07:54 PM 3/30/2009, you wrote: > >We plan to present an entire package to the FAA for the electrical >upgrade including removing the vacuum pump and installing the SD-8. >I am still compiling the information to make the best argument we >can. We will take whatever route they advise as far as paperwork is concerned. > >Bob >I am going on your recommendation to present a detailed paperwork >package that will hopefully put put things in our favor. > >This is our company airplane, we are an aircraft maintenance >business, My partner is an IA and DAR so the paperwork will be free >as long as an STC isn't involved. We hope it will all be done on 337. > >Our desire is to update this plane and pave the way for others to do >the same. If approved we will post the paperwork on the short wing >piper club site so others can use it without cost just as Bob has. Oh yeah, I remember talking with you about this project. Tell you what. If you'll send me your proposed wiring diagrams I'll see if I can put out a wire-book that accurately describes your proposal. I'd also be willing to review your arguments document for elements of technical accuracy and bureaucratic persuasion. What we're dealing with here has nothing to do with good engineering or flight-worthy design. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:41:19 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Impossible problem From: jaybannist@cs.com HELP !! I there anyone out there willing to dig in hand help me with an impossible p roblem ? I have a Zodiac 601XL with a Corvair engine.=C2- I have dual fuel pumps an d dual ignition coils. The airplane has flown. I designed my electrical syst em (Scheme 1) thinking that alternators and regulators were mostly bullet pr oof.=C2- Since discovering that was a bad assumption, I decided to power t he fuel pumps and coils from the battery bus (Scheme 2).=C2- That is the o nly thing I changed.=C2- Now, fuel pump 2 won=99t run when I select it with the switch.=C2- I tested the fuel pump with a portable battery and it runs.=C2- I tested each tab of both switches (Switch analysis). I have continuity between tab 3 of the fuel pump switch and the connector on the f uel pump.=C2- I have zero volts on the fuel pump connector. How can that b e? And why?=C2- Today I changed the wiring to place tabs 2 and 5 of the fu el pump switch to the battery bus and tabs 2 and 5 of the coil switch to the battery bus.=C2- Still no joy. I also found that selecting the fuel pump switch either up or down lights the alternator warning light. That obviously shouldn't happen. Surely I am overlooking something, Could I have a bad fue l pump switch? Or what? Stumped - Jay Bannister ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:25:47 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: PA-22 system From: "jetech" Ok Bob That sounds great. I will finish what I have and then send you a copy of the packet. It may be a few weeks, I don't get much time to work on it. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237104#237104 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:16 PM PST US From: Bill Mauledriver Watson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 400W/420W/430W Power cable I'm curious... what is available for the 300XL to enable practice at home? I have a 300XL in my Maule. I got the instrument ticket with it and flew it IFR quite a bit but using it well is always a challenge if not more than current. Bill "building an RV10" Watson Lakeridge Aeropark 8NC8 BobsV35B@aol.com wrote: > Good Morning OC, > > I tend to agree with your suggestion and I do the same thing. > > One fly in the ointment does irk me somewhat. Garmin has not updated > the database in the trainer for almost eighteen months. In the past, > they have updated it almost every year. I like to go through > approaches at home before I execute them for real. > > I have considered getting a docking station for my 430W just so I > could practice while using a current database. > > I do that with the GNC 300XL that I have in my Stearman. I wish Garmin > had been as kind to us with the 430W as they were with the GNC 300XL! > > If anyone cares to enlighten we electronic amateurs as to how to wire > a 4 or 500 series Garmin box for simulated use. I would sure > appreciate having that information. > > Happy Skies > > Old Bob > AKA > Bob Siegfried > Ancient Aviator > 628 West 86th Street > Downers Grove, IL 60516 > 630 985-8502 > Stearman N3977A > Brookeridge Air Park LL22 > > In ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:37 PM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 400W/420W/430W Power cable Good Evening Bill, All it takes is power. There is one of those little quarter inch or so plugs just for that purpose. I use a universal Radio Shack 12 volt DC power source. There is a simulator mode. It tells all about it in the operators manual. I just sit it on my desk, plug in the power cord and shoot approaches as much as I want. It isn't as nice as a good computer program, but it does allow me to practice the steps needed for an approach. Since my Stearman is not legal for IFR, it is just a toy, but If I ever got stuck, I just might use it to find a place to land! I have shot a few approaches under the hood with a safety pilot in the front pit. Actually works quite well. However, as you say, if you don't use it much, it is easy to forget the required steps. Happy Skies Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator 628 West 86th Street Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 In a message dated 3/31/2009 7:40:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time, MauleDriver@nc.rr.com writes: I'm curious... what is available for the 300XL to enable practice at home? I have a 300XL in my Maule. I got the instrument ticket with it and flew it IFR quite a bit but using it well is always a challenge if not more than current. **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:10 PM PST US From: "Robert McCallum" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GNS 430 question Chris; This is a case of misinterpretation of the information shown. First the diagram you attached does NOT show a CB in the ground wire. The labeling specifying the two ground wires shows an amperage for a CB because the wire gauge required changes depending upon which CB is used in the wire connected to pins 11,12 immediately above (based on 14 or 28 volt systems) but no CB is shown in the ground wires. The ground wire label is simply guiding you as to correctly determine the wire gauge required for these wires. Bob McC -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris Stone Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 9:04 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GNS 430 question Bob... This is the corect page from the Garmin IM 190-00356-02 Rev B November 2006 Chris > > >Chris; > >Not sure what you're looking at Chris. Rev M of the install manual Figure F-10 on page F-21 is the schematic for the typical installation of a GNS 430 and shows power through a 5A CB to pins 19, 20 on connector p4001 , power through a CB to pins 11, 12 of connector P4002(5A 28V or 10A 14V), and then pins 21, 22 of P4002, 77,78 of P4001, and 41 of P4006 all grounded. (no CB's) Where do you see CB's in the grounds? See page 108 of 132 at the following link. http://tinyurl.com/ccfsyq > >Bob McC > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris >Stone >Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 10:36 PM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: AeroElectric-List: GNS 430 question > > > >Hello Garmin experts... > >In reviewing the Garmin 430 install manual the power wiring diagram shows two 5 amp CBs on the 2 of 3 grounds. This is in addition to CBs on all the positive power supply lines. What does this accomplish? I can find nothing in the text that provides an explanation. > >Chris Stone >RV-8 >Newberg, OR > >> >> >> >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.