---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/07/09: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:22 AM - Re: Affixing an Engine Ground () 2. 07:43 AM - Re: Affixing an Engine Ground (Dale Rogers) 3. 08:26 AM - Re: Affixing an Engine Ground (Bret Smith) 4. 02:19 PM - Re: Affixing an Engine Ground () 5. 03:59 PM - Re: Trio altitude hold system (Franz Fux) 6. 06:09 PM - Fw: Re: IVOPROP Magnum installation instructions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 08:17 PM - Misc electrical items for sale (DEAN PSIROPOULOS) 8. 09:31 PM - Re: Trio altitude hold system (Etienne Phillips) 9. 10:07 PM - Re: Trio altitude hold system (Bruce Gray) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:11 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Affixing an Engine Ground From: On closer inspection of my Lycoming I found there are two pre-determined grounding locations on the IO-360 engine. Those bearing the Dynafocal mount setup have a purpose built hole on the ear of lower mounting tabs. I've attached a few pics. Thanks, Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Affixing an Engine Ground At 09:49 AM 2/13/2009, you wrote: >I have a new IO-360 and I am at a loss as to the best place to bolt >the ground wire. Do any of you have a suggestion? A picture may be >valuable here. > >Along the same lines, my craft is fiberglass and I am wondering if >it's smart to have two such ground running from the firewall to the engine. One is sufficient. Assemblies on airplanes held together with big bolts are generally considered failure free if assembled per instructions. Even if the airplane is metal, the engine sits on non-conductive shock mounts. Some designers have called for conductive bonding straps around the shock mounts for the purpose of electrically connecting the engine to the engine mount and ultimately to the airframe at the firewall. But if you plot out all the series and paralleled connections in such an array of conductors, it becomes apparent that the most effective and simple process is the fat-wire or braided ground jumper from the crankcase to a high-quality ground on the firewall, i.e. forest-of-tabs or equal. I'd be pleased to have photos of good connections to the crankcase on various engines. I'll publish them on the website. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:39 AM PST US From: Dale Rogers Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Affixing an Engine Ground longg@pjm.com wrote: > On closer inspection of my Lycoming I found there are two pre-determined > grounding locations on the IO-360 engine. Those bearing the Dynafocal > mount setup have a purpose built hole on the ear of lower mounting tabs. > I've attached a few pics. > Glenn, The folks who still access their mail via a dial-up connection are probably uttering deprecations right now. 2 Meg is nearly an hour's download, just for this one message. For the future, you might want to avail yourself of one of the many graphic tools (e.g. irfanview is free) to crop and/or resample to shrink your photos to a manageable < 200KB. Dale R. COZY MkIV #0497 Ch. 13 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:26:26 AM PST US From: "Bret Smith" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Affixing an Engine Ground Glenn, I would grind the paint off where you have attached the ground in order to ensure a good connection... Bret Smith RV-9A "Finishing" Blue Ridge, GA www.FlightInnovations.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 8:14 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Affixing an Engine Ground On closer inspection of my Lycoming I found there are two pre-determined grounding locations on the IO-360 engine. Those bearing the Dynafocal mount setup have a purpose built hole on the ear of lower mounting tabs. I've attached a few pics. Thanks, Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Affixing an Engine Ground At 09:49 AM 2/13/2009, you wrote: >I have a new IO-360 and I am at a loss as to the best place to bolt >the ground wire. Do any of you have a suggestion? A picture may be >valuable here. > >Along the same lines, my craft is fiberglass and I am wondering if >it's smart to have two such ground running from the firewall to the engine. One is sufficient. Assemblies on airplanes held together with big bolts are generally considered failure free if assembled per instructions. Even if the airplane is metal, the engine sits on non-conductive shock mounts. Some designers have called for conductive bonding straps around the shock mounts for the purpose of electrically connecting the engine to the engine mount and ultimately to the airframe at the firewall. But if you plot out all the series and paralleled connections in such an array of conductors, it becomes apparent that the most effective and simple process is the fat-wire or braided ground jumper from the crankcase to a high-quality ground on the firewall, i.e. forest-of-tabs or equal. I'd be pleased to have photos of good connections to the crankcase on various engines. I'll publish them on the website. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:19:46 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Affixing an Engine Ground Does anyone know equivalent locations on an IO-540? ---- longg@pjm.com wrote: > On closer inspection of my Lycoming I found there are two pre-determined > grounding locations on the IO-360 engine. Those bearing the Dynafocal > mount setup have a purpose built hole on the ear of lower mounting tabs. > I've attached a few pics. > > Thanks, > > Glenn > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Robert L. Nuckolls, III > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 7:53 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Affixing an Engine Ground > > > > At 09:49 AM 2/13/2009, you wrote: > >I have a new IO-360 and I am at a loss as to the best place to bolt > >the ground wire. Do any of you have a suggestion? A picture may be > >valuable here. > > > >Along the same lines, my craft is fiberglass and I am wondering if > >it's smart to have two such ground running from the firewall to the > engine. > > One is sufficient. Assemblies on airplanes held together > with big bolts are generally considered failure free if > assembled per instructions. > > Even if the airplane is metal, the engine sits on > non-conductive shock mounts. Some designers have > called for conductive bonding straps around the > shock mounts for the purpose of electrically > connecting the engine to the engine mount and > ultimately to the airframe at the firewall. > But if you plot out all the series and paralleled > connections in such an array of conductors, it > becomes apparent that the most effective and > simple process is the fat-wire or braided > ground jumper from the crankcase to a high-quality > ground on the firewall, i.e. forest-of-tabs > or equal. > > I'd be pleased to have photos of good connections > to the crankcase on various engines. I'll publish > them on the website. > > > Bob . . . > > ----------------------------------------) > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > ---------------------------------------- > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:59:42 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Trio altitude hold system From: Franz Fux Hi all, Maybe one of you has come across the same problem that I have encountered. I have purchased a Trio Altitude hold and can not get it to hold the altitude at all. Upon engaging the systems starts initiating a ever increasing proposing of the airplane with variations in altitude over 500 feet on either side. We have tied different approaches wit the help of the technical experts at Trio but have not come up with a solution. I have reset the system on numerous occasions, have shut down everything electrical in flight except the mags, have removed the strobe lights, have taken the adjuster and LED indicator out of the panel to eliminate interference and have replaced the electronic controller and the servo with new ones, without success. Maybe somebody can help Franz ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:30 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fwd: Re: IVOPROP Magnum installation instructions Subject: IVOPROP Magnum installation instructions By way of introduction, I'm a retired electrical engineer with 40+ years in aviation and other venues. I write and publish the AeroElectric Connection, a guide for the crafting of modern electrical systems in owner built and maintained aircraft. I support a website at Http://aeroelectric.com and moderate an aviation electrical systems discussion group with over 1800 subscribers on Matronics. com One of my readers tells me that instructions for one of your products calls for installing a wire harness in its as-supplied length. When he asked about cutting it to length, he tells me that your service folks told him that the wiring resistance was part of a critical calculation for the sizing of circuit breakers . . . or some such. I'm mystified by his understanding of the assertion. I offered to write to your directly and inquire as to the elements of physics that control your wire sizing and why he is advised to install so much extra wire that is not useful to his project. I hope you can clear this up for me. Thanks! >Dear Robert, The elements of physics are not available. >The wire harness is used as a resistor. If shortened, too much >current goes into the unit causing the carrier, gears, leadscrew, >etc. to break. Once the spool reaches the stop, if the switch is continued >to be held the circuit breaker should pop within 5-7 seconds. It >would be possible to shorten the wire >and put in its place a resistor that would cause the circuit >breaker to pop in the same amount of time. We do not encourage this >because if there is a mistake, >parts will break and the factory sealed unit will need to be >returned to our factory for repair. If the wire is too long it is >best to just coil it up. Regards, Ron > Ron, Hmmmm . . . I'm sorry to hear this. I would have wished that design goals and demonstrable robustness for this product were in closer agreement with commercial aviation practices. A motor driven gear train at risk for damage by hitting mechanical stops could not be qualified for use on a type certificated aircraft. If limit switches and/or mechanical torque limiters were not part of the basic design, then some form of electrical torque limiting is called for by tailoring the speed/ torque curve of the motor -AND- limiting energy stored on the motor's armature when mechanical limits are reached. Is there a brake on the motor? What happens if the prop mechanism becomes disconnected from the motor? Will the mechanism back-drive? What pitch state does the prop go if the drive train becomes disconnected? It is stable in that state? What is the maximum expected operating current for the motor? What is it's expected stall current at 14.5V with the lead lengths as-supplied? What is the as-supplied wire size? What is the size and manufacturer's part number for the supplied breaker? Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:43 PM PST US From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Misc electrical items for sale Since my airplane is now finished I have some various finishing and electrical parts available for sale. Email me for a list of what I have available. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Flying 16 hours ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:31:42 PM PST US From: Etienne Phillips Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Trio altitude hold system On 08 Apr 2009, at 12:57 AM, Franz Fux wrote: > Hi all, > Maybe one of you has come across the same problem that I have > encountered. Hi Franz Have you checked for play in the linkage between the servo arm and the control mechanism, or more generally, any play between the servo and elevator? Control systems usually exhibit the symptom you describe if there's backlash or play... Etienne ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:07:56 PM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Trio altitude hold system Or if the servo is not fast enough to stop the natural plungoid pitch cycle and makes it divergent. We have the same issue in Glasairs with STEC AP's the servo is too slow and the aircraft just keeps pitching up/down in ever increasing cycles. The cure is to increase the servo response time. In an STEC it means changing out a resistor, I don't know how it's done on the Trio. Bruce WWW.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Etienne Phillips Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 12:27 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Trio altitude hold system On 08 Apr 2009, at 12:57 AM, Franz Fux wrote: > Hi all, > Maybe one of you has come across the same problem that I have > encountered. Hi Franz Have you checked for play in the linkage between the servo arm and the control mechanism, or more generally, any play between the servo and elevator? Control systems usually exhibit the symptom you describe if there's backlash or play... 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