Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:20 AM - Re: G3i Ignition (David LLoyd)
2. 12:22 PM - Re: Odyssey Battery Alternative (Michael Pereira)
3. 01:08 PM - Re: Odyssey Battery Alternative (nghertner@verizon.net)
4. 01:33 PM - Re: Odyssey Battery Alternative (Bruce Gray)
5. 02:38 PM - Re: Odyssey Battery Alternative (nghertner@verizon.net)
6. 02:41 PM - Re: Odyssey Battery Alternative (Dale Rogers)
7. 03:37 PM - Re: OT battery mfg (was: Odyssey Battery Alternative) (Dale Rogers)
8. 03:56 PM - Re: Odyssey Battery Alternative (Bill Bradburry)
9. 04:50 PM - Re: Odyssey Battery Alternative (Dale Rogers)
10. 06:36 PM - Re: Odyssey Battery Alternative (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 09:52 PM - Re: OT battery mfg (was: Odyssey Battery Alternative) (Joemotis@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: G3i Ignition |
Generally, unmodified mags are notoriously weak on spark energy especially
at lower rpm's. Any system, that is reliable, to boost spark energy and
keep it confined inside the spark leads (no leakage) to the plugs is a huge
boost especially for starting big bore engines. I used a similar setup on a
large bore, hot VW engine and it would reliably start on the first piston
up. A really hot spark gets things going and reduces wear on starters and
adaptors.
Many running the big bore engines, especially on the ground, use poor
mixture management. Too rich usually, with over cooled cylinders, lots of
lead (100LL) deposits and carbon because the internal cylinder temps are too
cold. The hotter spark would help keep those deposits from settling into
spark plug gaps, wells and on valve faces.
Once in the air under cruise power, I don't know if any real economy savings
if one is already running the proper lean cruise set-up or LOP.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 1:25 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: G3i Ignition
> <randy@romeolima.com>
>
> Looks like fixed ignition timing, just a hotter spark. :-(
>
> Randy Lervold
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> longg@pjm.com
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:39 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: G3i Ignition
>
>
> Bakerocb,
>
> This is basically the same mod that has been available for hot rods for
> the
> last 30 years. Better, hotter, faster and lots of other marketing hype.
> I've
> not tried them on Lycomings, but they've helped one or more of my projects
> that suffered from frequently wet distributors, cheap wires etc. One bonus
> is that it should improve fuel burn.
>
> I just got done spending 4k on my EI from Lightspeed. I'll need to wait to
> upgrade.
>
> Glenn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> bakerocb@cox.net
> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 9:18 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: G3i Ignition
>
>
> 4/15/200
>
> Hello Fellow Builders, I was just introduced to G3i ignition. See here:
>
> http://www.g3ignition.com/
>
> I am wondering if any fellow listers have any field experience with this
>
> system or comments regarding the concept and implementation.
>
> Thanks.
>
> 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
> understand knowledge."
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Battery Alternative |
> It wasn't ~intended~ to be "political" - more of a QA issue.
> There's been a lot of contaminated product coming from the
> PRC. I've seen a lot of poor quality hardware (tools, shop
> equipment, electronics) coming from there. Dunno if I want
> my electric-dependent airplane to rely on a battery coming
> from such an environment.
*sighs*. This begs a question. How exactly do you tell if a battery
was made in china ? I'd be surprised if someone told me there are
still lead/acid battery manufacturers in the United States. It's stone-age
tech that involves acid and lead (which the epa has a hard-on for). I'm
not talking about the megabuck carbon fiber (to save a few ounces)
batteries.
Are there American manufacturers ? If so, are any priced low enough
that it would be cheaper money (and time) wise just to buy a few
generic crap china batteries and test them ?
Here's the off topic part. Our inability to maintain a manufacturing base
in this country is due to choices made by our government and we are
collectively responsible because of the people we elect to represent us.
Anyone that knows me, knows I'm straining to not comment on the
Cuba comment.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Battery Alternative |
Yes, Decca battery in PA makes batteries and rapes the environment there. You can
take the manufacture elsewhere!
------Original Message------
From: Michael Pereira
Sender: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey Battery Alternative
Sent: Apr 18, 2009 3:18 PM
> It wasn't ~intended~ to be "political" - more of a QA issue.
> There's been a lot of contaminated product coming from the
> PRC. I've seen a lot of poor quality hardware (tools, shop
> equipment, electronics) coming from there. Dunno if I want
> my electric-dependent airplane to rely on a battery coming
> from such an environment.
*sighs*. This begs a question. How exactly do you tell if a battery
was made in china ? I'd be surprised if someone told me there are
still lead/acid battery manufacturers in the United States. It's stone-age
tech that involves acid and lead (which the epa has a hard-on for). I'm
not talking about the megabuck carbon fiber (to save a few ounces)
batteries.
Are there American manufacturers ? If so, are any priced low enough
that it would be cheaper money (and time) wise just to buy a few
generic crap china batteries and test them ?
Here's the off topic part. Our inability to maintain a manufacturing base
in this country is due to choices made by our government and we are
collectively responsible because of the people we elect to represent us.
Anyone that knows me, knows I'm straining to not comment on the
Cuba comment.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 4
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| Subject: | Odyssey Battery Alternative |
With the exception of some intellectual property rights, the only way
you can create wealth is to take raw material A and labor B to produce
product C that has a higher value than A and B combined. Now when you
say, " You can take the manufacture elsewhere!", you're taking the
wealth creation with it. Soon you won't have a job. You don't want that,
do you?
Bruce (A capitalist pig and proud of it)
WWW.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
nghertner@verizon.net
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey Battery Alternative
Yes, Decca battery in PA makes batteries and rapes the environment
there. You can take the manufacture elsewhere!
------Original Message------
From: Michael Pereira
Sender: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey Battery Alternative
Sent: Apr 18, 2009 3:18 PM
<mjpereira68@gmail.com>
> It wasn't ~intended~ to be "political" - more of a QA issue.
> There's been a lot of contaminated product coming from the
> PRC. I've seen a lot of poor quality hardware (tools, shop
> equipment, electronics) coming from there. Dunno if I want
> my electric-dependent airplane to rely on a battery coming
> from such an environment.
*sighs*. This begs a question. How exactly do you tell if a battery
was made in china ? I'd be surprised if someone told me there are
still lead/acid battery manufacturers in the United States. It's
stone-age
tech that involves acid and lead (which the epa has a hard-on for). I'm
not talking about the megabuck carbon fiber (to save a few ounces)
batteries.
Are there American manufacturers ? If so, are any priced low enough
that it would be cheaper money (and time) wise just to buy a few
generic crap china batteries and test them ?
Here's the off topic part. Our inability to maintain a manufacturing
base
in this country is due to choices made by our government and we are
collectively responsible because of the people we elect to represent us.
Anyone that knows me, knows I'm straining to not comment on the
Cuba comment.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Battery Alternative |
Take a drive thru Topton, PA and watch the sludge flowing.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@Glasair.org>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey Battery Alternative
With the exception of some intellectual property rights, the only way
you can create wealth is to take raw material A and labor B to produce
product C that has a higher value than A and B combined. Now when you
say, " You can take the manufacture elsewhere!", you're taking the
wealth creation with it. Soon you won't have a job. You don't want that,
do you?
Bruce (A capitalist pig and proud of it)
WWW.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
nghertner@verizon.net
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey Battery Alternative
Yes, Decca battery in PA makes batteries and rapes the environment
there. You can take the manufacture elsewhere!
------Original Message------
From: Michael Pereira
Sender: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey Battery Alternative
Sent: Apr 18, 2009 3:18 PM
<mjpereira68@gmail.com>
> It wasn't ~intended~ to be "political" - more of a QA issue.
> There's been a lot of contaminated product coming from the
> PRC. I've seen a lot of poor quality hardware (tools, shop
> equipment, electronics) coming from there. Dunno if I want
> my electric-dependent airplane to rely on a battery coming
> from such an environment.
*sighs*. This begs a question. How exactly do you tell if a battery
was made in china ? I'd be surprised if someone told me there are
still lead/acid battery manufacturers in the United States. It's
stone-age
tech that involves acid and lead (which the epa has a hard-on for). I'm
not talking about the megabuck carbon fiber (to save a few ounces)
batteries.
Are there American manufacturers ? If so, are any priced low enough
that it would be cheaper money (and time) wise just to buy a few
generic crap china batteries and test them ?
Here's the off topic part. Our inability to maintain a manufacturing
base
in this country is due to choices made by our government and we are
collectively responsible because of the people we elect to represent us.
Anyone that knows me, knows I'm straining to not comment on the
Cuba comment.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Battery Alternative |
Michael Pereira wrote:
>
>
>> It wasn't ~intended~ to be "political" - more of a QA issue.
>> There's been a lot of contaminated product coming from the
>> PRC. I've seen a lot of poor quality hardware (tools, shop
>> equipment, electronics) coming from there. Dunno if I want
>> my electric-dependent airplane to rely on a battery coming
>> from such an environment.
>>
>
> *sighs*. This begs a question. How exactly do you tell if a battery
> was made in china ? I'd be surprised if someone told me there are
> still lead/acid battery manufacturers in the United States. It's stone-age
> tech that involves acid and lead (which the epa has a hard-on for). I'm
> not talking about the megabuck carbon fiber (to save a few ounces)
> batteries.
>
Well, be prepare to be surprised. The Odyssey batteries are manufactured
at the EnerSys plant in Warrensburg, Missouri.
The battery in question - B.B. Battery - has right on their site that their
factory is in China.
> Are there American manufacturers ? If so, are any priced low enough
> that it would be cheaper money (and time) wise just to buy a few
> generic crap china batteries and test them ?
>
Okay, here's where we get down to values. My dad always told me (didn't
your dad, too?) that cheap tools weren't worth what you pay for them.
A battery isn't as good as its warranty, it's only as good as it's lack of
necessity for exercising the warranty. The cost of having a battery give
out prematurely can easily far exceed the cost of the battery itself.
Exercising the warranty can have non-reimbursable costs, too.
Is it worth testing the B.B. Battery? Maybe ... but not to me - perhaps to
a dealer who's going to sell hundreds of them. They'll want to know what
the odds are for having to handle returns.
Dale R.
COZY MkIV #0497
> Here's the off topic part. Our inability to maintain a manufacturing base
> in this country is due to choices made by our government and we are
> collectively responsible because of the people we elect to represent us.
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: OT battery mfg (was: Odyssey Battery Alternative) |
Sounds to me that the problem isn't battery manufacturing,
but rather that particular manufacturer. There are
plants in the U.S.A. that used a (nearly) closed-cycle
process that recovers and reuses up to 80% of the H2SO4,
and lead that would otherwise go into the effluent.
So it's not that the B.O.D. of Decca, or whoever their
parent company might be, can't make a profit on batteries
without polluting the environment, it's that they ~won't~.
Moreover, is that what we really want, to send the
polluting industries to some other part of the planet
where the government doesn't mind if they poison the
people? I'd rather just buy ~quality~ from a responsible
manufacturer.
Dale R.
COZY MkIV #0497
nghertner@verizon.net wrote:
>
> Take a drive thru Topton, PA and watch the sludge flowing.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@Glasair.org>
>
> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 16:29:35
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey Battery Alternative
>
>
>
> With the exception of some intellectual property rights, the only way
> you can create wealth is to take raw material A and labor B to produce
> product C that has a higher value than A and B combined. Now when you
> say, " You can take the manufacture elsewhere!", you're taking the
> wealth creation with it. Soon you won't have a job. You don't want that,
> do you?
>
> Bruce (A capitalist pig and proud of it)
> WWW.Glasair.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> nghertner@verizon.net
> Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 4:08 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey Battery Alternative
>
>
> Yes, Decca battery in PA makes batteries and rapes the environment
> there. You can take the manufacture elsewhere!
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Odyssey Battery Alternative |
Well there are a lot of angles to this discussion and everybody has their
angle. The BB batteries are made in China. They make them from dirt. By
that I mean that the company supplies its own raw materials. They may be
low in quality, but it would not be because some supplier didn't follow the
company spec. Odessy makes their batteries in Mo. Where do they get their
raw materials? China?
BB means Best and Best. I don't know how that translates into quality, but
I have been using these batteries for 3 years now with no problem and as
long as they are half the price of the Odessy and give me no problem, I will
continue to use them. I have discharged them down to zip a couple of times
and they just charge back up and keep hanging in there.
I don't sell batteries, I just buy em. Your mileage may vary
Bill B
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale
Rogers
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey Battery Alternative
Michael Pereira wrote:
<mailto:mjpereira68@gmail.com> <mjpereira68@gmail.com>
It wasn't ~intended~ to be "political" - more of a QA issue.
There's been a lot of contaminated product coming from the
PRC. I've seen a lot of poor quality hardware (tools, shop
equipment, electronics) coming from there. Dunno if I want
my electric-dependent airplane to rely on a battery coming
from such an environment.
*sighs*. This begs a question. How exactly do you tell if a battery
was made in china ? I'd be surprised if someone told me there are
still lead/acid battery manufacturers in the United States. It's stone-age
tech that involves acid and lead (which the epa has a hard-on for). I'm
not talking about the megabuck carbon fiber (to save a few ounces)
batteries.
Well, be prepare to be surprised. The Odyssey batteries are manufactured
at the EnerSys plant in Warrensburg, Missouri.
The battery in question - B.B. Battery - has right on their site that their
factory is in China.
Are there American manufacturers ? If so, are any priced low enough
that it would be cheaper money (and time) wise just to buy a few
generic crap china batteries and test them ?
Okay, here's where we get down to values. My dad always told me (didn't
your dad, too?) that cheap tools weren't worth what you pay for them.
A battery isn't as good as its warranty, it's only as good as it's lack of
necessity for exercising the warranty. The cost of having a battery give
out prematurely can easily far exceed the cost of the battery itself.
Exercising the warranty can have non-reimbursable costs, too.
Is it worth testing the B.B. Battery? Maybe ... but not to me - perhaps to
a dealer who's going to sell hundreds of them. They'll want to know what
the odds are for having to handle returns.
Dale R.
COZY MkIV #0497
Here's the off topic part. Our inability to maintain a manufacturing base
in this country is due to choices made by our government and we are
collectively responsible because of the people we elect to represent us.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Battery Alternative |
Bill,
If they've given good service for you, so much to the good.
Pardon me if I wait a bit to see a broader track record before
I jump on the bandwagon. I don't base my purchased decisions
on just a lower purchase price.
Dale R.
Bill Bradburry wrote:
>
> Well there are a lot of angles to this discussion and everybody has
> their angle. The BB batteries are made in China. They make them from
> dirt. By that I mean that the company supplies its own raw materials.
> They may be low in quality, but it would not be because some supplier
> didnt follow the company spec. Odessy makes their batteries in Mo.
> Where do they get their raw materials? China?
>
> BB means Best and Best. I dont know how that translates into quality,
> but I have been using these batteries for 3 years now with no problem
> and as long as they are half the price of the Odessy and give me no
> problem, I will continue to use them. I have discharged them down to
> zip a couple of times and they just charge back up and keep hanging in
> there.
>
> I dont sell batteries, I just buy em. Your mileage may vary
>
> Bill B
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Michael Pereira wrote:
>
>
> *sighs*. This begs a question. How exactly do you tell if a battery
> was made in china ? I'd be surprised if someone told me there are
> still lead/acid battery manufacturers in the United States. It's stone-age
> tech that involves acid and lead (which the epa has a hard-on for). I'm
> not talking about the megabuck carbon fiber (to save a few ounces)
> batteries.
>
>
>
> Well, be prepare to be surprised. The Odyssey batteries are manufactured
> at the EnerSys plant in Warrensburg, Missouri.
>
> The battery in question - B.B. Battery - has right on their site that
> their
> factory is in China.
>
>
> Are there American manufacturers ? If so, are any priced low enough
> that it would be cheaper money (and time) wise just to buy a few
> generic crap china batteries and test them ?
>
>
>
> Okay, here's where we get down to values. My dad always told me (didn't
> your dad, too?) that cheap tools weren't worth what you pay for them.
> A battery isn't as good as its warranty, it's only as good as it's
> lack of
> necessity for exercising the warranty. The cost of having a battery give
> out prematurely can easily far exceed the cost of the battery itself.
> Exercising the warranty can have non-reimbursable costs, too.
>
> Is it worth testing the B.B. Battery? Maybe ... but not to me -
> perhaps to
> a dealer who's going to sell hundreds of them. They'll want to know what
> the odds are for having to handle returns.
>
> Dale R.
> COZY MkIV #0497
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Battery Alternative |
>
>*sighs*. This begs a question. How exactly do you tell if a battery
>was made in china?
Under most trade rules it has to say so on the outside
of the product.
> I'd be surprised if someone told me there are
>still lead/acid battery manufacturers in the United States. It's stone-age
>tech that involves acid and lead (which the epa has a hard-on for). I'm
>not talking about the megabuck carbon fiber (to save a few ounces)
>batteries.
>Are there American manufacturers ? If so, are any priced low enough
>that it would be cheaper money (and time) wise just to buy a few
>generic crap china batteries and test them ?
There are many American manufacturers of all kinds of
batteries . . . especially that arcane lead-acid technology
And the EPA has a hard-on for everybody. It's how they
keep their job and justify 75% of base pay retirement for life.
Most noteworthy are Concorde, Hawker-Enersys (I've been
through BOTH of these facilities),
http://tinyurl.com/cp2bsv
http://tinyurl.com/ceuvca
and a host of smaller players like
http://tinyurl.com/c8mty5
http://tinyurl.com/cru78p
. . . the complete list is quite long. Actually,
lead-acid battery manufacturing is probably one of the
most enviro-friendly secondary battery technologies.
The materials are highly recyclable and the total
energy to manufacture a lead-acid battery yields
a better return on investment of most battery
technologies.
You can eat your lunch off about any surface
in the Concorde or Hawker-Enersys plants without
fear of consequences. Blood levels of lead for
employees runs less than national average of
lead from natural sources.
>Here's the off topic part. Our inability to maintain a manufacturing base
>in this country is due to choices made by our government and we are
>collectively responsible because of the people we elect to represent us.
Sort of . . . but not always the case. For example,
had we mandated the US manufacture of all components
necessary to fabricate a computer, we would not
see deals like this . . .
http://tinyurl.com/cxtmpl
The recipe for success in any endeavor is to be
competitive with ALL other suppliers. When somebody
whips yer sox off then it's time to get competitive
or find a new activity where your investment of $time$,
talent and resources have a better pay back.
Clinging to any facet of the flow of value between
suppliers and consumers of an honorable free market
is fraught with disappointment. Suppliers of
floppy disks, CP/M operating systems, and core
memory have most recently discovered this.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: OT battery mfg (was: Odyssey Battery Alternative) |
This is my opinion also
Joe Motis WW Corvair builder and as of yesterday CH 750 plans on order
No archive
In a message dated 4/18/2009 3:38:19 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
dale.r@cox.net writes:
I'd rather just buy ~quality~ from a responsible
manufacturer.
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooter419NO62)
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