Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:43 AM - Re: Reducing RF noise for a Luxeon PowerPuck (Bob Leffler)
2. 05:45 AM - Re: Reducing RF noise for a Luxeon PowerPuck (Ralph Finch)
3. 07:56 AM - Re: Solar chargers (was System Off Current Requirements...) (Ian)
4. 10:15 AM - Re: Soldering Micro Switches ()
5. 10:36 AM - Re: Reducing RF noise for a Luxeon PowerPuck (Joe Dubner)
6. 10:57 AM - Re: Reducing RF noise for a Luxeon PowerPuck (Eric M. Jones)
7. 04:27 PM - Re: Reducing RF noise for a Luxeon PowerPuck (Ernest Christley)
8. 08:21 PM - Re: Reducing RF noise for a Luxeon PowerPuck (nuckollsr)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Reducing RF noise for a Luxeon PowerPuck |
Ralph,
I'm confused here. Why don't you just use the filtered unit that Bob K. has
designed? It seems that your #4 option is just re-inventing the wheel.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph
Finch
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 12:54 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Reducing RF noise for a Luxeon PowerPuck
I'm making some LED navigation lights. Being part Irish and stubborn I
decided to try the Luxeon PowerPuck
(http://www.luxeonstar.com/powerpuck-700ma-dc-led-driver-with-leads-p-27.php
) even though I also had Robert Nuckolls' filtered Buck Puck. Sure enough
the PowerPuck produces RF noise, measured by a hand-held Icom receiver.
Squelch has to be turned nearly all the way up to silence the receiver.
Now the PowerPuck data sheet
(http://www.leddynamics.com/LuxDrive/datasheets/2008B-PowerPuck.pdf) has a
specific fix for RF noise, a 220uf cap between the input leads (page 4). I
got the appropriate cap from Radio Shack and simply stuck it between the
input leads without shortening the cap's wires or soldering it. No
difference in RF noise.
At this point I can think of these options:
1. Replace the Luxeon PowerPuck with the filtered Buck Puck.
2. Replace the Luxeon PowerPuck with a resistor of appropriate wattage and
resistance.
3. Do nothing, maybe the RF noise isn't that bad.
4. Or, being part Irish and stubborn, try to filter the RF noise of the
Luxeon PowerPuck.
I'd like to try 4. a little more. What more can I do to filter the noise.
Would the caps and coils used to filter the Buck Puck work for the Luxeon?
Maybe use telephone wire (unshielded twisted pair)?
Thanks,
Ralph Finch
Davis, CA, USA
RV-9A QB SA
Message 2
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| Subject: | Reducing RF noise for a Luxeon PowerPuck |
> It seems that your #4 option is just re-inventing the wheel.
Yes.
> Why don't you just use the filtered unit that Bob K. has
designed?
Part Irish and all stubborn. I probably will end up using
Nuckolls' filtered Buck Puck...but am curious why using
the capacitor as suggested by the manufacturer didn't seem
to have any effect on RF noise.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Solar chargers (was System Off Current Requirements...) |
I'd suggest you read the specs on the solar panel. My local store sells
a variety of them and they seem to come with over-voltage and
under-voltage protection, even for the cheapest.
The Powersports 1W (80mA) charger is sometimes on sale here for as
little as $15, and it includes protection against both over charging,
and draining the battery.
You don't really need a lot of Power if you're just trying to top up the
battery during extended periods of inactivity. The alternator would do
a much better job if you're flying often.
Ian Brown
On Mon, 2009-05-04 at 13:08 -0700, David LLoyd wrote:
> Carlos,
>
> If you are using a solar panel for example that puts out 1/4 amp. max
> current, then I would use a zener diode that is rated for 1/2 amp or
> more. I don't know the cost of zeners these days. The higher current
> types maybe nearly as cheap as the lower current models. Also, you
> need to buy one that the breakdown step, Vz, occurs at or near 13.2 v.
> If you can't find one at 13.2 then, get the next larger voltage.
>
> If the next available is too high but is the only available type,
> then, buy it, and some cheap 1 amp plain diodes as they can be used to
> bring the zener break voltage back down to the desired 13.2. Each
> diode connected in series with the zener, will drop the voltage
> approx. 0.5 to 0.6 volt. Thus, if you have a 14.2 v. zener and put 2
> diodes in series with it, the final result will be a zener looking
> like it is regulating to about 13 to 13.2 v. which is what you are
> looking for.
>
> You also need a series resister to limit the shunted current in case a
> short occurs somewhere, At this point, you need to find a buddy that
> knows electronics and mention the idea to him and he will know how to
> wire it up or even find a one piece device that is better than a zener
> that is still cheap. You might wait until Bob returns and ask him the
> same question as he is super current on all the devices available
> today. I am a bit of a dinosaur being a retired EE engineer.
> Dave
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Carlos Trigo
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 11:11 AM
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Solar chargers (was System Off
> Current Requirements...)
>
>
> David
>
>
>
> For an electronically ignorant guy, which is the zener diode I
> should buy to regulate the current from a solar panel?
>
> How should it be installed?
>
>
>
> Carlos
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
>
> > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David LLoyd
>
> > Sent: segunda-feira, 4 de Maio de 2009 18:07
>
> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: System Off Current
> Requirements...
>
> >
>
> <skywagon@charter.net>
>
> >
>
> > Tom is completely correct.... most so called 12 v. solar
> panels can go up as
>
> > high as 18 v. Even though the current is small from a small
> wattage panel
>
> > it can still gas out a 12 v. battery after time. Low power
> panels can be
>
> > easily regulated with a simple zener diode or other similar
> solid state
>
> > device. Just don't exceed the current that it can shunt. A
> panel with 0.25
>
> > amp of current should be capable of maintaining healthy
> batteries, but, it
>
> > must be regulated to not go over about 13.2 v while
> charging.
>
> > Dave
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
>
> > From: "The Kuffels" <kuffel@cyberport.net>
>
> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>
> > Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 7:22 AM
>
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: System Off Current
> Requirements...
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
> > > <kuffel@cyberport.net>
>
> > >
>
> > > Matt,
>
> > >
>
> > > << I built my access panel out of one of those solar
> trickle chargers.>>
>
> > >
>
> > > << Solar chargers should be applied with understanding
>
> > > and some caution. These are rudimentary "trickle"
>
> > > chargers without regulation. Some readers of this
>
> > > forum many moons ago fitted solar chargers to their
>
> > > hangar roofs and left them attached to the battery
>
> > > for the duration of winter storage. They came back
>
> > > to find the battery trashed. >>
>
> > >
>
> > > You might wish to consult the article by Jim Weir in
> January 2007
>
> > > Kitplanes about building a smart solar charger.
>
> > >
>
> > > Tom Kuffel
>
> > > Whitefish, MT
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ==========
>
> > AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
>
> > browse
>
> > Un/Subscription,
>
> > FAQ,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>
> >
>
> > ==========
>
> > bsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>
> > Forums!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ==========
>
> > bsp; - List Contribution Web Site -
>
> >
>
> > bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
> > http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> > ==========
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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>
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>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Soldering Micro Switches |
Dick & Bob,
Thanks for the sound advice. I'm eager to make good on the small stuff.
Glenn
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Richard E. Tasker
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Soldering Micro Switches
longg@pjm.com wrote:
I suppose if you have the luxury of throwing your airplane on the
workbench and putting the panel in a vice it may not be a problem.
Trying to do this in the field holding 3 wires up with one hand and the
soldering gun in another is a real pain.
If you are using a soldering "gun" that is part of your problem. Get a
good, low wattage soldering iron. It will have a small,
high-temperature tip and will make soldering of small connections much
easier.
Use 60/40 or 63/37 solder. This is (at least the 63/37) eutectic solder
- which means that it is either liquid or solid - no mushy intermediate
state. Makes getting good solder joints much easier. Also, get solder
that is thin enough. Unless the joint is very large, 0.025 or 0.032
diameter is plenty. I even have some 0.015 that I use once in a while
for really small joints.
Also, if you are getting up there in age (as I am) get a magnifier so
you can see what you are doing. You would be surprised how much it
helps when you can really see the little parts up close ;-) .
Dick
--
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Reducing RF noise for a Luxeon PowerPuck |
Ralph Finch wrote:
> but am curious why using
> the capacitor as suggested by the manufacturer didn't seem
> to have any effect on RF noise.
Ralph,
I don't have any specific knowledge of your parts but hey, this is the
Internet :-) And you said you are curious.
In spite of the manufacturer's recommendation, a 220 uF capacitor is
totally ineffective at reducing RF noise at VHF. And even if it was
effective, installing it with long leads would negate that. (The 220 uF
capacitor is recommended by the manufacturer is for another purpose).
My recommendation would be to solder a .001 uF (1000 pF) capacitor with
the shortest leads possible across the input and output of the module.
And keep all wiring as short as practical. Twisting the Vin positive
and negative leads would be good too.
--
Joe
Independence, OR
Aircraft Position: http://www.mail2600.com/position
Aircraft Track: http://www.mail2600.com/track
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Reducing RF noise for a Luxeon PowerPuck |
I too, experimented with the PowerPuck to see what I could do about the noise.
The big capacitor was a waste of time. I finally dissolved off the potting to
study the problem and decided that it was just a poor design (Hey, even PCB designers
have to start someplace). I was thus surprised when Bob N. decided to
try to quiet it. I have not seen Aeroelectric feedback to see how successful
the filter design was, but I personally doubt it was worthwhile.
There are better approached than to try to fix someone else's bad designs:
Try: www.Astrodyne.com for good designs for short money. Alternatively if you was a really quiet solution, build yourself a Linear current regulator using an LM317 or similar: www.periheliondesign.com/downloads/currentregulators.pdf
but you won't get the low current of the switcher design.
If you want to build LED position lights, see my article on the subject.
www.periheliondesign.com/downloads/redandgreenledpositionlights.pdf
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242807#242807
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Reducing RF noise for a Luxeon PowerPuck |
Ralph Finch wrote:
>
>
>> It seems that your #4 option is just re-inventing the wheel.
>>
>
> Yes.
>
>
>> Why don't you just use the filtered unit that Bob K. has
>>
> designed?
>
> Part Irish and all stubborn. I probably will end up using
> Nuckolls' filtered Buck Puck...but am curious why using
> the capacitor as suggested by the manufacturer didn't seem
> to have any effect on RF noise.
>
It's very possible that your "stick the leads to the contacts" was a
very high resistance joint. The long leads could also act as antennae.
It doesn't take much radiated noise for it to be picked up only a few
feet away. RF can be nasty stuff to work with sometimes. It will often
do what it wants, before what you want.
--
http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Reducing RF noise for a Luxeon PowerPuck |
I too, experimented with the PowerPuck to see what I could do about the noise.
The big capacitor was a waste of time. I finally dissolved off the potting to
study the problem and decided that it was just a poor design (Hey, even PCB designers
have to start someplace). I was thus surprised when Bob N. decided to
try to quiet it. I have not seen Aeroelectric feedback to see how successful the
filter design was, but I personally doubt it was worthwhile.
There are better approached than to try to fix someone else's bad designs:
Still out in California working a client's problem but thought I'd offer a response.
I decided to try to "quiet it" because that was the task. Lots of folks
had already purchased this product . . . it seemed a bit obtuse to say
"you bought a piece of junk . . . here buy my gizmo instead."
Further, one would be hard pressed to say that the PowerPuck did not perform as
advertised . . . no place in the ads did I find a suggestion that they were recommended
or declared suitable for use in aircraft.
We've sold several dozen of both the fully assembled power supplies and the -99
add-on filter for individuals who already had BuckPucks in hand.
Everyone who reported noise problems before adding the AEC filter reported a satisfactory
reduction in noise afterward. I've got a DO-160 emissions test coming
up in the lab for another customer in the next few weeks . . . I try to piggy-back
the AEC product onto the testing effort and put real numbers to the observed
successes. If anyone discovers that the products offered by AEC do not
perform as advertised, it's my sincere expectation that they'll be returned for
a refund . . . no such events have taken place at the time of this writing.
For those interested in a DIY version of our efforts, I'll suggest you download
https://matronics.com/aeroelectric/Catalog/AEC/9051/9051-700A.pdf and get the
component values off of page 4.
Bob . . . [/b]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242882#242882
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