Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:38 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 05/09/09 (Martin & Chris)
2. 04:41 AM - Ground Power ()
3. 09:32 AM - Re: Ground Power (woxofswa)
4. 12:24 PM - Ground Power Receptacle? (Ian)
5. 06:17 PM - GPU - 24V System - Crowbar Needed (Craig Winkelmann)
6. 08:01 PM - Re: Ground Power Receptacle? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 10:12 PM - Re: GPU - 24V System - Crowbar Needed (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 05/09/09 |
Thanks Dave and Kevin, I will try your suggestions first, but if
anyone can advise me on what is required to test the ignition coils it
would also be appreciated,
Martin
AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote:
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> AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 05/09/09: 9
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>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 12:41 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/08/09 (Martin
& Chris)
> 2. 05:47 AM - Re: What can GPS and XM antennas see through? (cskelt@earthlink.net)
> 3. 07:06 AM - Re: Re: What can GPS and XM antennas see through? (Steve
Thomas)
> 4. 08:55 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/08/09 (David
LLoyd)
> 5. 12:54 PM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/08/09 (Cori
Hayth)
> 6. 03:29 PM - Re: Tunnel grounding (woxofswa)
> 7. 05:51 PM - Re: Ground Power (woxofswa)
> 8. 06:29 PM - Re: Re: Ground Power (Matt Dralle)
> 9. 07:18 PM - Re: Re: Ground Power (Richard Dudley)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:41:52 AM PST US
> From: Martin & Chris <aerobiz@optusnet.com.au>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/08/09
>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> We are getting an engine miss in a Rotax 912-powered a/c. It is fine
> until about 20 minutes into the flight, then you can detect the miss.
> Strange given that it has dual ignition,. We tried fiddling with the
> carb and leaning the mixture off seemed to solve the problem for a few
> hours, but it back worse than ever. The ignition parts are quite
> expensive so would like to isolate the problem before replacing
> everything.
>
> So what I am looking at is advice on testing the ignition coils. How you
> should go about it and what equipment is needed. If they check out,
> then the modules will be next, but one thing at a time.
>
> Any advice appreciated.
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:47:26 AM PST US
> From: "cskelt@earthlink.net" <cskelt@earthlink.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: What can GPS and XM antennas see through?
>
> Folks,
> This is to thank all of you who replied to the list and to me personally.
>
> The consensus on the Internet is that GPS signals run around 1.5 GHz and XM Weather
> at about 2.3 GHz with corresponding wavelengths of about 20 cm and 13 cm
> respectively. This is more than an order of magnitude higher than the frequencies
> we use for COM and NAV, and so, all other things being equal, we shouldn't
> expect them to penetrate so much of the same solid material -- which was my
> original concern, particularly as I have no data on the relative transmissivity
> of perspex (that we understand is OK) and fiberglass (that's probably OK, but
> I don't know). Even if I can get a good GPS or XM reading while stationary
> in the driveway, that doesn't necessarily translate into good navigation at cruise
> speed, and that is why positive and negative experiences from a large user
> community are worth much more than guidelines from the installation manual.
> It seems there are many good functional ways of doing the installation, and some
> useful considerations to take into account. Thank
> s again.
>
> Regards, Chris.
>
>
> __________________
> cskelt@earthlink.net
> Chris Skelt
>
> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:06:22 AM PST US
> From: Steve Thomas <lists@stevet.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: What can GPS and XM antennas see through?
>
> Chris,
>
> I am not flying yet, and my experience is anecdotal so take this for
> what it's worth. I am building a Glasair Super II RG, all fiberglass
> fuselage. The construction is glass over foam sandwich. I have my XM
> and GPS antennae on a shelf at the inside-top of the aft fuselage and
> the airplane is inside my garage. When I fire up my panel, I can
> successfully pick up both the XM and GPS signal. It does take a while
> to lock on, and the signal is weak, but it is there. So, both signals
> are able to penetrate the garage roof, the ceiling, and the fiberglass
> body. Now I suppose I cannot tell how much is coming through the
> windows and open garage door, but that is my experience.
>
>
> Steve
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
> On May 9, 2009, at 5:44 AM, cskelt@earthlink.net wrote:
>
>
>> Folks,
>> This is to thank all of you who replied to the list and to me
>> personally.
>>
>> The consensus on the Internet is that GPS signals run around 1.5 GHz
>> and XM Weather at about 2.3 GHz with corresponding wavelengths of
>> about 20 cm and 13 cm respectively. This is more than an order of
>> magnitude higher than the frequencies we use for COM and NAV, and
>> so, all other things being equal, we shouldn't expect them to
>> penetrate so much of the same solid material -- which was my
>> original concern, particularly as I have no data on the relative
>> transmissivity of perspex (that we understand is OK) and fiberglass
>> (that's probably OK, but I don't know). Even if I can get a good
>> GPS or XM reading while stationary in the driveway, that doesn't
>> necessarily translate into good navigation at cruise speed, and that
>> is why positive and negative experiences from a large user community
>> are worth much more than guidelines from the installation manual.
>> It seems there are many good functional ways of doing the
>> installation, and some useful considerations to take into account.
>> Thanks again.
>>
>> Regards, Chris.
>>
>>
>> __________________
>> cskelt@earthlink.net
>> Chris Skelt
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:55:52 AM PST US
> From: "David LLoyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/08/09
>
>
> Any chance you have a misplaced gas line that is vapor locking after the
> heat gets to it.....!!
> After "....20 min's", it is usually a heat related problem.
> D
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martin & Chris" <aerobiz@optusnet.com.au>
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 12:37 AM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/08/09
>
>
>
>> <aerobiz@optusnet.com.au>
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> We are getting an engine miss in a Rotax 912-powered a/c. It is fine until
>> about 20 minutes into the flight, then you can detect the miss. Strange
>> given that it has dual ignition,. We tried fiddling with the carb and
>> leaning the mixture off seemed to solve the problem for a few hours, but
>> it back worse than ever. The ignition parts are quite expensive so would
>> like to isolate the problem before replacing everything.
>> So what I am looking at is advice on testing the ignition coils. How you
>> should go about it and what equipment is needed. If they check out, then
>> the modules will be next, but one thing at a time.
>>
>> Any advice appreciated.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:54:08 PM PST US
> From: Cori Hayth <kevann@gotsky.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/08/09
>
>
> Suspect carburation first, ignition is less likely.
>
> With the engine warmed up try pulling the choke on. This will enrichen
> the mixture, so if it runs better the carbs are probably set too lean.
>
> Check the small diameter hoses to both carbs for cracks.
>
> How long has it been since the carbs were serviced, the diaphrams,
> o-rings and such replaced?
>
> Kevin
>
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 11:37 PM , Martin & Chris wrote:
>
>
>> <aerobiz@optusnet.com.au>
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> We are getting an engine miss in a Rotax 912-powered a/c. It is fine
>> until about 20 minutes into the flight, then you can detect the miss.
>> Strange given that it has dual ignition,. We tried fiddling with the
>> carb and leaning the mixture off seemed to solve the problem for a few
>> hours, but it back worse than ever. The ignition parts are quite
>> expensive so would like to isolate the problem before replacing
>> everything. So what I am looking at is advice on testing the ignition
>> coils. How you should go about it and what equipment is needed. If
>> they check out, then the modules will be next, but one thing at a
>> time.
>>
>> Any advice appreciated.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:29:22 PM PST US
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Tunnel grounding
> From: "woxofswa" <woxof@aol.com>
>
>
> Thanks Bob.
>
> I like super clean.
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243312#243312
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:51:00 PM PST US
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ground Power
> From: "woxofswa" <woxof@aol.com>
>
>
> I am bumping this after a search.
>
> I am in the process of putting together a ground power receptacle for my RV10.
>
> I have ordered a piper receptacle from A. Spruce, and the crowbar and contactor
> from BandC.
>
> My primary goals are:
>
> 1. To be able to come up to a dead airplane, start it from ground power, and
go
> fly.
>
> 2. To be able to charge a dead or weak battery without having to remove access
> panels.
>
> 3. to be able to provide power during construction/testing with a cheapo spare
> battery. I don't want to buy my ship's battery until the day before my first
> start.
>
> I don't necessarily need to be able to switch the ground power on or off. I'm
> okay with the act of putting the plug in as switching it on. However, I would
> like the circuit to die once I pulled the plug out if that makes sense.
>
> Does the Aero'lectric diagram meet my needs or do I need changes?
>
> Anyone have pictures of an installation, preferably in an RV10?
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243327#243327
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:29:45 PM PST US
> From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ground Power
>
> At 05:42 PM 5/9/2009 Saturday, you wrote:
>
>> I am bumping this after a search.
>>
>> I am in the process of putting together a ground power receptacle for my RV10.
>>
>> I have ordered a piper receptacle from A. Spruce, and the crowbar and contactor
>>
> from BandC.
>
>> My primary goals are:
>>
>> 1. To be able to come up to a dead airplane, start it from ground power, and
>>
> go fly.
>
>> 2. To be able to charge a dead or weak battery without having to remove access
>>
> panels.
>
>> 3. to be able to provide power during construction/testing with a cheapo spare
>>
> battery. I don't want to buy my ship's battery until the day before my first
> start.
>
>> I don't necessarily need to be able to switch the ground power on or off.
I'm
>>
> okay with the act of putting the plug in as switching it on. However, I would
> like the circuit to die once I pulled the plug out if that makes sense.
>
>> Does the Aero'lectric diagram meet my needs or do I need changes?
>>
>> Anyone have pictures of an installation, preferably in an RV10?
>>
>> --------
>> Myron Nelson
>> Mesa, AZ
>> Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>>
>
>
> Hi Myron,
>
> Attached are some pictures of my GPU power installation in the RV-8. Works great
> and allows me to charge the battery, run the avionics, or start the engine.
> I also included the backbone wiring schematic. I'm using the Vertical Power
> VP-200 electrical system, but the GPU wiring should be fairly common. The GPU
> wiring is shown in the lower right hand side of the diagram. I haven't updated
> the diagram yet, but you might need to add a connection between the Sense
> input on the GPU plug through a Normally Open push button to the EBus (and through
> a small fuse or polyfuse). What I found was that the late-model chargers
> won't turn on their output unless they see about 4-5 volts. So, they won't pull
> the GPU relay down when you plug the GPU plug in. The button allows you to
> pull the relay in and make the charger think there is voltage. The only catch
> is that your aircraft battery has to have enough juice to pull the relay down.
>
> Let me know if you've have any questions.
>
> Matt Dralle
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV
> Laying Carpet Out in CAD...
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:18:05 PM PST US
> From: "Richard Dudley" <rhdudley1@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ground Power
>
>
> Hi Myron,
>
> I installed the ground power circuit per Bob Nucolls including the breaker
> switch in my RV-6A. I used it pretty much as you describe except that I
> never had occasion to start the engine using ground power. All through the
> early testing and any time I wished to run electronics on the ground, I used
> a battery charger conneccted to the ground power receptacle. I also did an
> endurance test on the battery to determine how long it would maintain
> avionics in the event of an alternator loss when the battery was one year
> old. Then, I re-charged the battery via the receptacle. It was a great
> convenience an did all the things I intended.
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Dudley
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "woxofswa" <woxof@aol.com>
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 8:42 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ground Power
>
>
>
>> I am bumping this after a search.
>>
>> I am in the process of putting together a ground power receptacle for my
>> RV10.
>>
>> I have ordered a piper receptacle from A. Spruce, and the crowbar and
>> contactor from BandC.
>>
>> My primary goals are:
>>
>> 1. To be able to come up to a dead airplane, start it from ground power,
>> and go fly.
>>
>> 2. To be able to charge a dead or weak battery without having to remove
>> access panels.
>>
>> 3. to be able to provide power during construction/testing with a cheapo
>> spare battery. I don't want to buy my ship's battery until the day before
>> my first start.
>>
>> I don't necessarily need to be able to switch the ground power on or off.
>> I'm okay with the act of putting the plug in as switching it on. However,
>> I would like the circuit to die once I pulled the plug out if that makes
>> sense.
>>
>> Does the Aero'lectric diagram meet my needs or do I need changes?
>>
>> Anyone have pictures of an installation, preferably in an RV10?
>>
>> --------
>> Myron Nelson
>> Mesa, AZ
>> Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243327#243327
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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5/10/2009
Hello Myron, You wrote: "1. To be able to come up to a dead airplane, start
it from ground power, and go fly."
NOT a good idea -- (especially if the weather is woxof).
If the alternator quits before it has time to recharge the batterey (that
could take quite a while) then you have an airborne electrically dead
airplane.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
===========================================================
Time: 05:51:00 PM PST US
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ground Power
From: "woxofswa" <woxof@aol.com>
I am bumping this after a search.
I am in the process of putting together a ground power receptacle for my
RV10.
I have ordered a piper receptacle from A. Spruce, and the crowbar and
contactor
from BandC.
My primary goals are:
1. To be able to come up to a dead airplane, start it from ground power,
and go
fly.
2. To be able to charge a dead or weak battery without having to remove
access
panels.
3. to be able to provide power during construction/testing with a cheapo
spare
battery. I don't want to buy my ship's battery until the day before my
first
start.
I don't necessarily need to be able to switch the ground power on or off.
I'm
okay with the act of putting the plug in as switching it on. However, I
would
like the circuit to die once I pulled the plug out if that makes sense.
Does the Aero'lectric diagram meet my needs or do I need changes?
Anyone have pictures of an installation, preferably in an RV10?
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Ground Power |
>>not a good idea
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243398#243398
Message 4
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| Subject: | Ground Power Receptacle? |
Having spent the last couple of weeks needing to repeatedly recharge my
RV-9A battery, I can say that an external charging receptacle would have
made my life a lot easier.
Can anyone tell me the best receptacle to use, that would be the most
standard? Can you also suggest a good source?
While not planning to fly away on an almost dead battery, I do envisage
moments when it would be useful to start from ground power, and then do
some charging direct from the alternator. I'd imagine that flying
locally would be fairly safe while the battery is being topped up, as
long as your whole panel doesn't shut down if you lose battery.
Ian Brown
Bromont
Quebec
Message 5
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| Subject: | GPU - 24V System - Crowbar Needed |
Bob:
The B&C OVM-14 is a 14 volt corwbar isn't it? For a 24 VDC system, what crowbar
would I use for a GPU? Also, wouldn't an inline fuse be helpful as the crowbar
basically provides a low resistance path to ground to bypass the contactor.
Don't you need something to a fuse or breaker to protect the crowbar from excessive
current?
Craig
PS - I'm working on a GPU for a 24V aircraft application.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243465#243465
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Ground Power Receptacle? |
At 02:16 PM 5/10/2009, you wrote:
>
>Having spent the last couple of weeks needing to repeatedly recharge my
>RV-9A battery, I can say that an external charging receptacle would have
>made my life a lot easier.
>
>Can anyone tell me the best receptacle to use, that would be the most
>standard? Can you also suggest a good source?
The "military style" 3-prong race-track shaped connector
is common to all bizjets and cabin class aircraft. It's
the connector we used at Cessna on all single engine aircraft
too. I think Piper was the first to adapt the single
terminal high current truck connector to aircraft. It
was lighter, smaller, MUCH less expensive. The "Piper"
style connector found its way onto a number of smaller
Beech airplanes.
Either connector will be found on the FBO ramps.
Having said that, YOU are the one most likely to use
jumpers on your airplane so carrying a set of automotive
jumpers (4AWG) fitted with the Piper plug on one end and
big battery clips on the other is probably the most
practical for weight and cost.
>While not planning to fly away on an almost dead battery, I do envisage
>moments when it would be useful to start from ground power, and then do
>some charging direct from the alternator. I'd imagine that flying
>locally would be fairly safe while the battery is being topped up, as
>long as your whole panel doesn't shut down if you lose battery.
Lycoming alternator installations with small pulleys
will generally recharge a 17 a.h. battery in about
30 minutes or less. If the anticipated flight is
day vfr then by the time you get off the ground after
jump-starting the airplane, the battery should be
carrying a substantial charge . . . besides, you always
fly with these guys too . . . no?
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Vacination_for_Dark_Panel_Syndrom.pdf
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: GPU - 24V System - Crowbar Needed |
At 08:16 PM 5/10/2009, you wrote:
><capav8r@gmail.com>
>
>Bob:
>
>The B&C OVM-14 is a 14 volt corwbar isn't it? For a 24 VDC system,
>what crowbar would I use for a GPU? Also, wouldn't an inline fuse
>be helpful as the crowbar basically provides a low resistance path
>to ground to bypass the contactor. Don't you need something to a
>fuse or breaker to protect the crowbar from excessive current?
Yes. See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Ground_Power/Ground_Power_1.pdf
and . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Ground_Power/Ground_Power_D.pdf
The OVM-14 and our CbOVM-14 can be supplied in a
OVM-28 and/or CbOVM-28 versions.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
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