AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Tue 05/12/09


Total Messages Posted: 15



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:02 AM - Re: GPU - 24V System - Crowbar Needed (woxofswa)
     2. 03:22 AM - Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
     3. 04:11 AM - Re: Re: Battery Charger as Ground Power (bob noffs)
     4. 04:42 AM - Re: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system (John Ciolino)
     5. 06:15 AM - Re: Ground Power Receptacle? (Ian)
     6. 06:39 AM - Re: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system (paul wilson)
     7. 06:54 AM - Re: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system (Deems Davis)
     8. 07:10 AM - Re: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system (bcondrey)
     9. 11:11 AM - Modifying the Piper plug (woxofswa)
    10. 11:24 AM - Re: Ground Power Receptacle? (bob noffs)
    11. 12:27 PM - Re: Re: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
    12. 01:27 PM - Re: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system (bcondrey)
    13. 01:44 PM - Re: Ground Power Receptacle? (n801bh@netzero.com)
    14. 02:44 PM - Re: Re: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
    15. 06:35 PM - 28V Contactors and Crowbar (Craig Winkelmann)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 01:02:15 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: GPU - 24V System - Crowbar Needed
    From: "woxofswa" <woxof@aol.com>
    Thanks for the info guys. I am going to do it the proper way and have already ordered the parts. I just like understanding the science as well -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243671#243671


    Message 2


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    Time: 03:22:15 AM PST US
    From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
    Subject: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system
    I have a 2 battery Z-14 system in an RV10. Rather than have a full ground power capability, I'm planning to have some sort of plugs available through the baggage compartment that would allow me to hook up a smart charger occassionally. Has anyone come up with a good set of plugs for this application? A good approach to hooking up 2 batteries - either 1 at a time or both?


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:11:38 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Battery Charger as Ground Power
    From: bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com>
    i have 6 or 8 of these little chargers on all my toys. i have noticed on some some that the voltage was too low. i tried once to adjust the voltage but couldn't get anything to turn.i guess i will go back and try again to adjust the voltage on a couple that are too low. on the one that was too high i soldered a diode in line and dropped the voltage. bob noffs On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 8:31 PM, David L. <skywagon@charter.net> wrote: > > The little, cheap Harbor Freight "maintainers" work quite well. I have > used several. One key point however, ...many of them come set a tad too > high in their fixed "float" voltage, to my thinking. I have seen them as > high as 13.9 v. > > The good news, is they can be adjusted to the float voltage that you want. > The little controller box should have a back lid that is lightly glued in > place. Carefully work a very narrow blade screw driver or other tough, but > thin device into the glued seam and work it until the back pops off. Inside > is a small circuit board and potentiometer. It may have a spot of RTV on > it. Work this loose. Turning the pot CW lowers to float voltage. I like > about 13.2 v. Others may want a slightly different setting. I usually > locate where the pot slotted screw adjust hole is located next to the little > case and drill a 3/16 hole. That way, it can be adjusted from the outside. > The little unit is quite stable after you get the setting where you want > it. David > > > ---- woxofswa <woxof@aol.com> wrote: > > ============ > > I'm no expert, but I think you are right. > > I think a 12.5 volt "maintainer" would make much more sense. They can be > had at Harbor Freight for $5 > > For ground tests and assembly, I plan on using a cheapo lawn tractor > battery with a maintainer hooked up to it. The battery would then serve as > a sink if there is a problem with the maintainer. > > -------- > Myron Nelson > Mesa, AZ > Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243569#243569 > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 04:42:57 AM PST US
    From: John Ciolino <johnciolino@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system
    Take a look at www.powerletproducts.com. They have a variety of outlets to install on motorcycles for heated clothing, GPS, etc. I installed an SAE connector (designed to be mounted on a saddlebag) in the panel covering my battery in the forward baggage compartment of my RV-8. The Battery Tender I use terminates in an SAE connector to switch between alligator clips or a pigtail with ring terminals to be mounted to the battery. John Ciolino . Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote: > <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com> > > I have a 2 battery Z-14 system in an RV10. Rather than have a full > ground power capability, I'm planning to have some sort of plugs > available through the baggage compartment that would allow me to hook > up a smart charger occassionally. > > Has anyone come up with a good set of plugs for this application? A > good approach to hooking up 2 batteries - either 1 at a time or both? > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:15:59 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Ground Power Receptacle?
    From: Ian <ixb@videotron.ca>
    Thanks. Of course my main effort here is to fix the reason for my lack of charging, which you would have seen in another post. I like "B" since it can serve both purposes, and RV's are a bit inaccessible when buttoned up. I do actually have "A" already. I have a little trickle charger/conditioner that came with a connector that is mounted permanently and accessible through my engine oil check hatch. Bob Nuckolls suggested that the Piper connector is relatively common - there are LOTS of Piper aircraft around so I'll probably go with the significantly less expensive Piper connectors, and make sure to put some good "12V ONLY" labeling next to the connector. Thanks to all who responded. On Mon, 2009-05-11 at 20:53 -0400, bakerocb@cox.net wrote: > > 5/11/2009 > > Hello Ian, You wrote: > > 1) "Having spent the last couple of weeks needing to repeatedly recharge my > RV-9A battery,........" > > What is abnormal about either your system or your mode of operation that > causes this repeat problem? If there is a fundamental fault in either of > those two areas maybe a fault correction approach rather than an external > charging receptacle band-aid should be considered. > > 2) "......I can say that an external charging receptacle would have made my > life a lot easier." > > Realize that external charging receptacles can come in two different > flavors: > > A) A simple low amperage connection system going directly to the battery > that is suitable for connecting a 120 volt input, low amperage output > battery charger / maintainer for just the purpose of recharging / > maintaining the battery. > > B) A more elaborate high amperage system that would facilitate cranking the > engine as well as recharging the battery with maybe some additional features > such as reverse voltage protection. > > 3) "Can anyone tell me the best receptacle to use, that would be the most > standard?" > > You would have to decide whether you wanted an A or a B solution in order to > answer the "best" question. > > If an A solution satisfies your needs then there are dozens of choices -- it > only requires two wires with some simplistic polarity protection. I have > operated for several years now with just two wires coming directly from my > battery up to the cockpit area. One wire is terminated with a female, fully > insulated, Faston type connector, the other wire is terminated with a male, > fully insulated, Faston type connector. The wires are just tucked out of the > way when not in use. See: > > http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page9.html > > My battery charger clip ons have been modified with the appropriate stub > wires and Faston type connectors added. One benefit of this system is that I > can connect it up and then attach a volt meter to the charger clips. It > tells me what the battery voltage is. Then I can plug in the charger and > monitor the charging voltage -- very handy. > > If only a B solution will satisfy you then look to Bob Nuckoll's published > material on this subject. The most commonly found receptacle and plug > arrangement found at FBO's is the three prong. See here: > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/extpowerrect.php > > The next most commonly found is the Piper receptacle and plug arrangement.** > See here: > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/piperplugsock.php > > BUT there is a major "gotcha" that you must be aware of if you have a 12 > volt aircraft electrical system and you install one of the above > receptacles -- some ground power carts with the above plugs will only put > out 24 volts. If you zap your 12 volt system with 24 volts you will suffer > damage. > > 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and > understand knowledge." > > **PS: There is also a single center post receptacle and plug system similar > in apprearance to the Piper system, but not compatible, that is found on > some Beechcraft airplanes. Very unlikely to find a ground power cart with a > plug compatible with this odd ball receptacle. > > ======================================================== > > Time: 12:24:10 PM PST US > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ground Power Receptacle? > From: Ian <ixb@videotron.ca> > > > Having spent the last couple of weeks needing to repeatedly recharge my > RV-9A battery, I can say that an external charging receptacle would have > made my life a lot easier. > > Can anyone tell me the best receptacle to use, that would be the most > standard? Can you also suggest a good source? > > While not planning to fly away on an almost dead battery, I do envisage > moments when it would be useful to start from ground power, and then do > some charging direct from the alternator. I'd imagine that flying > locally would be fairly safe while the battery is being topped up, as > long as your whole panel doesn't shut down if you lose battery. > > Ian Brown > Bromont > Quebec > > > > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:39:26 AM PST US
    From: paul wilson <pwmac@sisna.com>
    Subject: Re: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system
    Why not use the plug that comes with the Shumacher smart maintainer. It is intended to be attached to the batt. When not in use just let it lay in an inconspicuous place. No cost involved and it is insulated & polarized. Other smart maintainers come the same way. Paul ========= At 04:20 AM 5/12/2009, you wrote: ><MauleDriver@nc.rr.com> > >I have a 2 battery Z-14 system in an RV10. Rather than have a full >ground power capability, I'm planning to have some sort of plugs >available through the baggage compartment that would allow me to >hook up a smart charger occassionally. > >Has anyone come up with a good set of plugs for this application? A >good approach to hooking up 2 batteries - either 1 at a time or both? > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:54:15 AM PST US
    From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system
    I'm also very interested in learning how to design / craft a method for connecting a GPU to a 2 battery (Z-14) a/c. Experience has taught me that notwithstanding my excellent memory and scrupulous use of checklists that some gremlin inevitably sneaks into the cockpit and turns the master on, while I'm out enjoying myself at a distant airfield. If this happens at home field its less of an issue, but when it happens away, =-O . Anyone done this, or have some suggestions? Deems Davis N519PJ Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote: > <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com> > > I have a 2 battery Z-14 system in an RV10. Rather than have a full > ground power capability, I'm planning to have some sort of plugs > available through the baggage compartment that would allow me to hook > up a smart charger occassionally. > > Has anyone come up with a good set of plugs for this application? A > good approach to hooking up 2 batteries - either 1 at a time or both? > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:10:54 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system
    From: "bcondrey" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
    I've got a 3 pin XLR jack mounted in a lightening hole in the rear seat brace. Very easy to access from the baggage door. It's wired with 1 pin to ground and 1 to each battery through a fuse. I only use it for trickle charging. Bob RV-10 N442PM jack: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103444 plug: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104076 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243707#243707


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:11:01 AM PST US
    Subject: Modifying the Piper plug
    From: "woxofswa" <woxof@aol.com>
    Bob, In one of your links you posted here, there is a diagram for modifying the plug. It has several numerical references on the various steps and parts, but I can't find the text or reference guide to those numerical references. Could you please link or post? Thanks for being such a valuable resource. -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243753#243753


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:24:38 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Ground Power Receptacle?
    From: bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com>
    i used to own a piper and also worked for a moving company. soooooooooooooo i know the plug from piper and for a semi trailer are the same. but a trailer shop can probably supply it for 1/3 the cost. this if an aux. supply, not the trailer lights. bob noffs On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 7:50 AM, Ian <ixb@videotron.ca> wrote: > > Thanks. Of course my main effort here is to fix the reason for my lack > of charging, which you would have seen in another post. > > I like "B" since it can serve both purposes, and RV's are a bit > inaccessible when buttoned up. I do actually have "A" already. I have > a little trickle charger/conditioner that came with a connector that is > mounted permanently and accessible through my engine oil check hatch. > > Bob Nuckolls suggested that the Piper connector is relatively common - > there are LOTS of Piper aircraft around so I'll probably go with the > significantly less expensive Piper connectors, and make sure to put some > good "12V ONLY" labeling next to the connector. > > Thanks to all who responded. > > On Mon, 2009-05-11 at 20:53 -0400, bakerocb@cox.net wrote: > > > > 5/11/2009 > > > > Hello Ian, You wrote: > > > > 1) "Having spent the last couple of weeks needing to repeatedly recharge > my > > RV-9A battery,........" > > > > What is abnormal about either your system or your mode of operation that > > causes this repeat problem? If there is a fundamental fault in either of > > those two areas maybe a fault correction approach rather than an external > > charging receptacle band-aid should be considered. > > > > 2) "......I can say that an external charging receptacle would have made > my > > life a lot easier." > > > > Realize that external charging receptacles can come in two different > > flavors: > > > > A) A simple low amperage connection system going directly to the battery > > that is suitable for connecting a 120 volt input, low amperage output > > battery charger / maintainer for just the purpose of recharging / > > maintaining the battery. > > > > B) A more elaborate high amperage system that would facilitate cranking > the > > engine as well as recharging the battery with maybe some additional > features > > such as reverse voltage protection. > > > > 3) "Can anyone tell me the best receptacle to use, that would be the most > > standard?" > > > > You would have to decide whether you wanted an A or a B solution in order > to > > answer the "best" question. > > > > If an A solution satisfies your needs then there are dozens of choices -- > it > > only requires two wires with some simplistic polarity protection. I have > > operated for several years now with just two wires coming directly from > my > > battery up to the cockpit area. One wire is terminated with a female, > fully > > insulated, Faston type connector, the other wire is terminated with a > male, > > fully insulated, Faston type connector. The wires are just tucked out of > the > > way when not in use. See: > > > > http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page9.html > > > > My battery charger clip ons have been modified with the appropriate stub > > wires and Faston type connectors added. One benefit of this system is > that I > > can connect it up and then attach a volt meter to the charger clips. It > > tells me what the battery voltage is. Then I can plug in the charger and > > monitor the charging voltage -- very handy. > > > > If only a B solution will satisfy you then look to Bob Nuckoll's > published > > material on this subject. The most commonly found receptacle and plug > > arrangement found at FBO's is the three prong. See here: > > > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/extpowerrect.php > > > > The next most commonly found is the Piper receptacle and plug > arrangement.** > > See here: > > > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/piperplugsock.php > > > > BUT there is a major "gotcha" that you must be aware of if you have a 12 > > volt aircraft electrical system and you install one of the above > > receptacles -- some ground power carts with the above plugs will only put > > out 24 volts. If you zap your 12 volt system with 24 volts you will > suffer > > damage. > > > > 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and > > understand knowledge." > > > > **PS: There is also a single center post receptacle and plug system > similar > > in apprearance to the Piper system, but not compatible, that is found on > > some Beechcraft airplanes. Very unlikely to find a ground power cart with > a > > plug compatible with this odd ball receptacle. > > > > ======================================================== > > > > Time: 12:24:10 PM PST US > > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ground Power Receptacle? > > From: Ian <ixb@videotron.ca> > > > > > > Having spent the last couple of weeks needing to repeatedly recharge my > > RV-9A battery, I can say that an external charging receptacle would have > > made my life a lot easier. > > > > Can anyone tell me the best receptacle to use, that would be the most > > standard? Can you also suggest a good source? > > > > While not planning to fly away on an almost dead battery, I do envisage > > moments when it would be useful to start from ground power, and then do > > some charging direct from the alternator. I'd imagine that flying > > locally would be fairly safe while the battery is being topped up, as > > long as your whole panel doesn't shut down if you lose battery. > > > > Ian Brown > > Bromont > > Quebec > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 12:27:34 PM PST US
    From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery
    system bcondrey wrote: > > I've got a 3 pin XLR jack mounted in a lightening hole in the rear seat brace. Very easy to access from the baggage door. It's wired with 1 pin to ground and 1 to each battery through a fuse. I only use it for trickle charging. > > Bob > RV-10 N442PM > > jack: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103444 > plug: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104076 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243707#243707 > > > Bob, that was exactly the kind of thing I was looking for - at the right price. I'm thinking that hooking a single smart charger to 2 batteries is a no-no. A 'dumb' trickle charger perhaps. In any case, Thanks much! Bill


    Message 12


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    Time: 01:27:10 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system
    From: "bcondrey" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
    Bill, Just to be clear, I have each battery wired through a fuse to its own pin on the connector so I can get to either for charging through the connector. I picked up a couple of Battery Tender Jr.s on sale someplace and have those wired in. Works great! Bob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243773#243773


    Message 13


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    Time: 01:44:36 PM PST US
    From: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@NetZero.com>
    Subject: Re: Ground Power Receptacle?
    This is available from just about any auto parts store. Cole Hersey is the manufacturer. Socket is 11041. Plug is 11042. Durable, lightweight and inexpensive. I have one on my beast. Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ---------- Original Message ---------- From: bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground Power Receptacle? i used to own a piper and also worked for a moving company. sooooooooooo ooo i know the plug from piper and for a semi trailer are the same. but a trailer shop can probably supply it for 1/3 the cost. this if an aux. supply, not the trailer lights. bob noffs On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 7:50 AM, Ian <ixb@videotron.ca> wrote: Thanks. Of course my main effort here is to fix the reason for my lack of charging, which you would have seen in another post. I like "B" since it can serve both purposes, and RV's are a bit inaccessible when buttoned up. I do actually have "A" already. I have a little trickle charger/conditioner that came with a connector that is mounted permanently and accessible through my engine oil check hatch. Bob Nuckolls suggested that the Piper connector is relatively common - there are LOTS of Piper aircraft around so I'll probably go with the significantly less expensive Piper connectors, and make sure to put some good "12V ONLY" labeling next to the connector. Thanks to all who responded. On Mon, 2009-05-11 at 20:53 -0400, bakerocb@cox.net wrote: > > 5/11/2009 > > Hello Ian, You wrote: > > 1) "Having spent the last couple of weeks needing to repeatedly rechar ge my > RV-9A battery,........" > > What is abnormal about either your system or your mode of operation th at > causes this repeat problem? If there is a fundamental fault in either of > those two areas maybe a fault correction approach rather than an exter nal > charging receptacle band-aid should be considered. > > 2) "......I can say that an external charging receptacle would have ma de my > life a lot easier." > > Realize that external charging receptacles can come in two different > flavors: > > A) A simple low amperage connection system going directly to the batte ry > that is suitable for connecting a 120 volt input, low amperage output > battery charger / maintainer for just the purpose of recharging / > maintaining the battery. > > B) A more elaborate high amperage system that would facilitate crankin g the > engine as well as recharging the battery with maybe some additional fe atures > such as reverse voltage protection. > > 3) "Can anyone tell me the best receptacle to use, that would be the m ost > standard?" > > You would have to decide whether you wanted an A or a B solution in or der to > answer the "best" question. > > If an A solution satisfies your needs then there are dozens of choices -- it > only requires two wires with some simplistic polarity protection. I ha ve > operated for several years now with just two wires coming directly fro m my > battery up to the cockpit area. One wire is terminated with a female, fully > insulated, Faston type connector, the other wire is terminated with a male, > fully insulated, Faston type connector. The wires are just tucked out of the > way when not in use. See: > > http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page9.html > > My battery charger clip ons have been modified with the appropriate st ub > wires and Faston type connectors added. One benefit of this system is that I > can connect it up and then attach a volt meter to the charger clips. I t > tells me what the battery voltage is. Then I can plug in the charger a nd > monitor the charging voltage -- very handy. > > If only a B solution will satisfy you then look to Bob Nuckoll's publi shed > material on this subject. The most commonly found receptacle and plug > arrangement found at FBO's is the three prong. See here: > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/extpowerrect.php > > The next most commonly found is the Piper receptacle and plug arrangem ent.** > See here: > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/piperplugsock.php > > BUT there is a major "gotcha" that you must be aware of if you have a 12 > volt aircraft electrical system and you install one of the above > receptacles -- some ground power carts with the above plugs will only put > out 24 volts. If you zap your 12 volt system with 24 volts you will su ffer > damage. > > 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather an d > understand knowledge." > > **PS: There is also a single center post receptacle and plug system si milar > in apprearance to the Piper system, but not compatible, that is found on > some Beechcraft airplanes. Very unlikely to find a ground power cart w ith a > plug compatible with this odd ball receptacle. > > ====== > > Time: 12:24:10 PM PST US > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ground Power Receptacle? > From: Ian <ixb@videotron.ca> > > > Having spent the last couple of weeks needing to repeatedly recharge m y > RV-9A battery, I can say that an external charging receptacle would ha ve > made my life a lot easier. > > Can anyone tell me the best receptacle to use, that would be the most > standard? Can you also suggest a good source? > > While not planning to fly away on an almost dead battery, I do envisag e > moments when it would be useful to start from ground power, and then d o > some charging direct from the alternator. I'd imagine that flying > locally would be fairly safe while the battery is being topped up, as > long as your whole panel doesn't shut down if you lose battery. > > Ian Brown > Bromont > Quebec > > &==================== , 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List" target="_bla nk"======== http://forums.mle, List Admin. ==== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ============ ____________________________________________________________ Click here for great deals on vacation rentals, packages and resorts in Virginia Beach. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYUuWgZQCDngbzcVrgKh 5nQCcqV1mnEwzljnB7b1lluthvVG7dimpa/


    Message 14


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    Time: 02:44:07 PM PST US
    From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery
    system Yep, I get it. Thanks do not archive bcondrey wrote: > > Bill, > > Just to be clear, I have each battery wired through a fuse to its own pin on the connector so I can get to either for charging through the connector. I picked up a couple of Battery Tender Jr.s on sale someplace and have those wired in. > > Works great! > > Bob > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243773#243773 > > >


    Message 15


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    Time: 06:35:32 PM PST US
    Subject: 28V Contactors and Crowbar
    From: "Craig Winkelmann" <capav8r@gmail.com>
    Bob: Thanks for letting me know you have the 28V crowbar. What about a 28V contactor? All I see are 12V at B&C. Thanks, Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243806#243806




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