Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:11 AM - Ground Power Receptacle? ()
2. 05:33 AM - Re: Ground Power Receptacle? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:20 AM - Re: 28V Contactors and Crowbar (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:28 AM - Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 06:30 AM - Re: Modifying the Piper plug (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 06:34 AM - Re: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 07:16 AM - Re: Re: Battery Charger as Ground Power (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 10:50 AM - Re: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system (BobsV35B@aol.com)
9. 10:50 AM - Re: Modifying the Piper plug (woxofswa)
10. 11:35 AM - Re: Re: Modifying the Piper plug (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 02:29 PM - Re: Modifying the Piper plug (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
12. 04:20 PM - Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment? (Ralph Finch)
13. 05:28 PM - Re: Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment? (Matt Prather)
14. 05:57 PM - RV-9 Wing Wire Routing (Russ)
15. 08:27 PM - Re: RV-9 Wing Wire Routing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 08:27 PM - Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 09:46 PM - Re: Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment? (Ralph Finch)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Ground Power Receptacle? |
5/13/2009
Hello Ian, You wrote: ".......and make sure to put some good "12V ONLY"
labeling next to the connector."
That should work until you encounter the same line boy, or his cousin, that
recently refueled a recip powered twin engine airplane with jet fuel which
caused a crash shortly after take off.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
====================================================
Time: 06:15:59 AM PST US
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground Power Receptacle?
From: Ian <ixb@videotron.ca>
Thanks. Of course my main effort here is to fix the reason for my lack
of charging, which you would have seen in another post.
I like "B" since it can serve both purposes, and RV's are a bit
inaccessible when buttoned up. I do actually have "A" already. I have
a little trickle charger/conditioner that came with a connector that is
mounted permanently and accessible through my engine oil check hatch.
Bob Nuckolls suggested that the Piper connector is relatively common -
there are LOTS of Piper aircraft around so I'll probably go with the
significantly less expensive Piper connectors, and make sure to put some
good "12V ONLY" labeling next to the connector.
Thanks to all who responded.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Ground Power Receptacle? |
At 03:38 PM 5/12/2009, you wrote:
>This is available from just about any auto parts store.
>
>Cole Hersey is the manufacturer.
>
>Socket is 11041. Plug is 11042. Durable, lightweight and
>inexpensive. I have one on my beast.
>
Yes, the ground power connection article I published
goes to modifications of the 11041 socket to turn
the rear wire connection into a threaded stud as opposed
to a mash-n-squash termination.
Piper bought their parts from Cole-Hersee but I've
never seen how Piper (or others) have treated
the wire attachment.
Emacs!
A few years ago, I saw this style connector with a
threaded stud already supplied. Don't know who made
it and I've not been able to locate it in any
C-H literature . . .
But agreed . . . don't buy these parts from a Piper dealer.
By the way, C-H has a new catalog you can download
from:
http://tinyurl.com/opdey3
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 28V Contactors and Crowbar |
>
>Thanks for letting me know you have the 28V crowbar. What about a
>28V contactor? All I see are 12V at B&C.
>
>Thanks,
The 24v version of that contactor is available from
various sources, here's one:
http://tinyurl.com/oudonu
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
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| Subject: | Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system |
>Bob, that was exactly the kind of thing I was looking for - at the
>right price.
>
>I'm thinking that hooking a single smart charger to 2 batteries is a
>no-no. A 'dumb' trickle charger perhaps.
You can hook as many batteries in parallel as you
wish for charging from any source. The battery
charger doesn't know if you have one 34 a.h. battery
or two 17 a.h. batteries and doesn't care.
See: http://tinyurl.com/q6klx7
Smart chargers are ALWAYS the device of choice
for walk-away-and-forget-it maintenance of
rechargeable batteries.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Modifying the Piper plug |
At 01:08 PM 5/12/2009, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>In one of your links you posted here, there is a diagram for
>modifying the plug. It has several numerical references on the
>various steps and parts, but I can't find the text or reference
>guide to those numerical references.
>Could you please link or post?
>
>Thanks for being such a valuable resource.
I presume you're talking about this article:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf
Can you be more specific as to what numbers
in text don't connect to numbers in figures?
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery |
system
At 08:45 AM 5/12/2009, you wrote:
>
>I'm also very interested in learning how to design / craft a method
>for connecting a GPU to a 2 battery (Z-14) a/c. Experience has
>taught me that notwithstanding my excellent memory and scrupulous
>use of checklists that some gremlin inevitably sneaks into the
>cockpit and turns the master on, while I'm out enjoying myself at a
>distant airfield. If this happens at home field its less of an
>issue, but when it happens away, =-O . Anyone done this, or have
>some suggestions?
Active notification of low voltage (nice flashing
light on panel) for each system is a good hedge against
leaving the master switch on. Also, oil pressure
switches can be used to control both an hour-meter
(oil pressure up) and and low pressure light (engine
stopped). Wiring a small buzzer in parallel with the
light helps too once the engine is stopped.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Charger as Ground Power |
At 06:08 AM 5/12/2009, you wrote:
>i have 6 or 8 of these little chargers on all my toys. i have
>noticed on some some that the voltage was too low. i tried once to
>adjust the voltage but couldn't get anything to turn.i guess i will
>go back and try again to adjust the voltage on a couple that are too
>low. on the one that was too high i soldered a diode in line and
>dropped the voltage.
> bob noffs
>
>On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 8:31 PM, David L.
><<mailto:skywagon@charter.net>skywagon@charter.net> wrote:
><<mailto:skywagon@charter.net>skywagon@charter.net>
>
>The little, cheap Harbor Freight "maintainers" work quite well. I
>have used several. One key point however, ...many of them come set
>a tad too high in their fixed "float" voltage, to my thinking. I
>have seen them as high as 13.9 v.
>
>The good news, is they can be adjusted to the float voltage that you
>want. The little controller box should have a back lid that is
>lightly glued in place. Carefully work a very narrow blade screw
>driver or other tough, but thin device into the glued seam and work
>it until the back pops off. Inside is a small circuit board and
>potentiometer. It may have a spot of RTV on it. Work this
>loose. Turning the pot CW lowers to float voltage. I like about
>13.2 v. Others may want a slightly different setting. I usually
>locate where the pot slotted screw adjust hole is located next to
>the little case and drill a 3/16 hole. That way, it can be adjusted
>from the outside. The little unit is quite stable after you get the
>setting where you want it. David
David's suggestions are worthy of consideration but
he doesn't mention specific model numbers from
H.F. I've tested several battery charger products
from H.F. and found some that were not suited to our tasks.
What we're looking for are devices that first
"top off" a battery and then "drop to maintenance".
This kind of behavior is illustrated in . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_3.jpg
This curve is from the Schumacher 1562 series chargers available
from WalMart for about $20. There are dozens of other
products that produce similar charge/maintenance profiles.
This one . . .
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42292
. . . does not.
I found a pot inside to adjust the output voltage . . .
but only ONE pot. It's a device suitable for maintaining
an already charged battery (adjust it for 13.1 volts) but
will not charge a battery.
Based on its description and price, this device
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=99857
shows more promise. Haven't had time to go get one and
check it out but in the mean time, the Schumacher
1562 is a sure bet
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery_Chargers/Schumacher_Chargers/1562.jpg
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery |
system
Good Afternoon Deems.
Bob Nuckolls Suggested:
"Active notification of low voltage (nice flashing
light on panel) for each system is a good hedge against
leaving the master switch on. Also, oil pressure
switches can be used to control both an hour-meter
(oil pressure up) and a low pressure light (engine
stopped). Wiring a small buzzer in parallel with the
light helps too once the engine is stopped."
We have such an arrangement on our Piper Pawnee glider tow plane.
Works great.
I have also seen a strobe light hooked up in the same manner. Most of us
tend to make a loving last glance at our pride and joy before we abandon the
scene. It is hard to walk away with the strobes firing!
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Modifying the Piper plug |
Thanks Bob,
That is exactly what I needed.
The link you posted in the "24 V system crowbar needed" thread had the diagram,
but not the text.
Thanks again.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243897#243897
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Modifying the Piper plug |
At 12:48 PM 5/13/2009, you wrote:
>
>Thanks Bob,
>
>That is exactly what I needed.
>
>The link you posted in the "24 V system crowbar needed" thread had
>the diagram, but not the text.
>
>Thanks again.
Okay, very good. Be advised that AEC is offering
stand-alone crowbar ov modules. We've sorted through
some fabrication enhancements and will put them
in the catalog soon. In the mean time, you can
order them by emailing me directly.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Modifying the Piper plug |
Okay, very good. Be advised that AEC is offering
stand-alone crowbar ov modules. We've sorted through
some fabrication enhancements and will put them
in the catalog soon. In the mean time, you can
order them by emailing me directly.
Bob . . .
Bob,
I will be needing 2 OV modules, one for my alternator circuit and one for
ground power. Do you have pricing for your modules? Are they available
both in kit and assembled form?
Roger
Message 12
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| Subject: | Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment? |
I am grounding a gizmotron (Dynon pitot heater controller) to a wing rib
with a Fast-On Tab. I used a pop rivet to attach the Tab to the rib, but
then it occurred to me this might not be acceptable. The Tab can rotate
around the rivet, though not freely or loosely. I'm not concerned about the
mechanical properties as much as the electrical. Maybe a tighter connection
is required?
Having been wrong about almost everything electrical in the past, I thought
I'd post here and get a definitive answer.
Ralph Finch
Davis, CA
RV-9A QB-SA
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment? |
It will work for a while, though I could imagine it might get hot, and
then maybe intermittent. It doesn't sound like it's a "gas tight"
connection, so it's not the best we know how to do.. A machine screw and
nut would be better I think. I'm sure someone with more direct experience
will chime in.
Matt-
> <rgf@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>
> I am grounding a gizmotron (Dynon pitot heater controller) to a wing rib
> with a Fast-On Tab. I used a pop rivet to attach the Tab to the rib, but
> then it occurred to me this might not be acceptable. The Tab can rotate
> around the rivet, though not freely or loosely. I'm not concerned about
> the
> mechanical properties as much as the electrical. Maybe a tighter
> connection
> is required?
>
> Having been wrong about almost everything electrical in the past, I
> thought
> I'd post here and get a definitive answer.
>
> Ralph Finch
> Davis, CA
> RV-9A QB-SA
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | RV-9 Wing Wire Routing |
I am wrapping up my RV-9 wings and am ready to route the wiring with
the following components (right wing). Anyone have any advice on
routing "pairing"? I have three wire runs available two adjacent to
each other just rear of the wing spar and then a third in the wing
trailing edge.
1- Dynon autopilot roll servo wiring set
2- Archer VOR/ILS co-ax cable (2 cables)
Whiskey Victor
3 - strobe light
4 - LED position light
5 - HID landing light (wig-wag)
thanks
Russ Airey
RV-9A
Wrapping up Fuselage and Wing Construction
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: RV-9 Wing Wire Routing |
At 07:54 PM 5/13/2009, you wrote:
> I am wrapping up my RV-9 wings and am ready to route the wiring
> with the following components (right wing). Anyone have any advice
> on routing "pairing"? I have three wire runs available two
> adjacent to each other just rear of the wing spar and then a third
> in the wing trailing edge.
>
>1- Dynon autopilot roll servo wiring set
>2- Archer VOR/ILS co-ax cable (2 cables)
>Whiskey Victor
> 3 - strobe light
> 4 - LED position light
> 5 - HID landing light (wig-wag)
Run them all together if you wish.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 16
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| Subject: | Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment? |
At 06:18 PM 5/13/2009, you wrote:
>
>I am grounding a gizmotron (Dynon pitot heater controller) to a wing rib
>with a Fast-On Tab. I used a pop rivet to attach the Tab to the rib, but
>then it occurred to me this might not be acceptable. The Tab can rotate
>around the rivet, though not freely or loosely. I'm not concerned about the
>mechanical properties as much as the electrical. Maybe a tighter connection
>is required?
>
>Having been wrong about almost everything electrical in the past, I thought
>I'd post here and get a definitive answer.\
What you're looking for in bringing terminal and airplane
together is a GAS TIGHT joint. This is between the terminal
face that comes into contact with the aircraft's metallic
surface.
This usually means that you've applied enough force
to DEFORM irregularities in the two surfaces and literally
squash the materials together. This is the same
process described in:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf
If you want a local grounding joint that outlasts
the rest of the airplane use 10-32 hardware to bring
terminal and airplane together. Brighten up the terminal
surface that touches the airplane. Brighten up
the airplane that touches the terminal. SMOOTH! and
SHINY! don't scuff it up with coarse abrasives.
Make up the joint with the a washer between
screw head (or nut) and the opposite side of
the terminal. Use metal locknut (MS21042-L3)
on the screw.
"Icing on the cake" is to coat one of the mating
electrical conduction surfaces with thin layer
of silicone grease before mating. Torque to
20 in-lbs.
THAT joint will not spin on the screw . . in
fact, you should tear the wire grip off the
terminal before the rest of it moves. If you
pop-riveted a nav light ground, it would probably
be okay but the higher you go in current through
the joint the more important it is to get it
gas tight. Short of soldering/welding the joint,
what I've described is the best we know how to
do.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 17
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| Subject: | Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment? |
Thanks Matt and Bob. Once again you guys confirmed my suspicions that I
have much to learn.
RF
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