---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 05/13/09: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:11 AM - Ground Power Receptacle? () 2. 05:33 AM - Re: Ground Power Receptacle? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 06:20 AM - Re: 28V Contactors and Crowbar (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 06:28 AM - Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 06:30 AM - Re: Modifying the Piper plug (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 06:34 AM - Re: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 07:16 AM - Re: Re: Battery Charger as Ground Power (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 10:50 AM - Re: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system (BobsV35B@aol.com) 9. 10:50 AM - Re: Modifying the Piper plug (woxofswa) 10. 11:35 AM - Re: Re: Modifying the Piper plug (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 02:29 PM - Re: Modifying the Piper plug (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS) 12. 04:20 PM - Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment? (Ralph Finch) 13. 05:28 PM - Re: Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment? (Matt Prather) 14. 05:57 PM - RV-9 Wing Wire Routing (Russ) 15. 08:27 PM - Re: RV-9 Wing Wire Routing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 16. 08:27 PM - Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 17. 09:46 PM - Re: Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment? (Ralph Finch) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:27 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ground Power Receptacle? 5/13/2009 Hello Ian, You wrote: ".......and make sure to put some good "12V ONLY" labeling next to the connector." That should work until you encounter the same line boy, or his cousin, that recently refueled a recip powered twin engine airplane with jet fuel which caused a crash shortly after take off. 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." ==================================================== Time: 06:15:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground Power Receptacle? From: Ian Thanks. Of course my main effort here is to fix the reason for my lack of charging, which you would have seen in another post. I like "B" since it can serve both purposes, and RV's are a bit inaccessible when buttoned up. I do actually have "A" already. I have a little trickle charger/conditioner that came with a connector that is mounted permanently and accessible through my engine oil check hatch. Bob Nuckolls suggested that the Piper connector is relatively common - there are LOTS of Piper aircraft around so I'll probably go with the significantly less expensive Piper connectors, and make sure to put some good "12V ONLY" labeling next to the connector. Thanks to all who responded. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:35 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground Power Receptacle? At 03:38 PM 5/12/2009, you wrote: >This is available from just about any auto parts store. > >Cole Hersey is the manufacturer. > >Socket is 11041. Plug is 11042. Durable, lightweight and >inexpensive. I have one on my beast. > Yes, the ground power connection article I published goes to modifications of the 11041 socket to turn the rear wire connection into a threaded stud as opposed to a mash-n-squash termination. Piper bought their parts from Cole-Hersee but I've never seen how Piper (or others) have treated the wire attachment. Emacs! A few years ago, I saw this style connector with a threaded stud already supplied. Don't know who made it and I've not been able to locate it in any C-H literature . . . But agreed . . . don't buy these parts from a Piper dealer. By the way, C-H has a new catalog you can download from: http://tinyurl.com/opdey3 Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:45 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 28V Contactors and Crowbar > >Thanks for letting me know you have the 28V crowbar. What about a >28V contactor? All I see are 12V at B&C. > >Thanks, The 24v version of that contactor is available from various sources, here's one: http://tinyurl.com/oudonu Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:55 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system >Bob, that was exactly the kind of thing I was looking for - at the >right price. > >I'm thinking that hooking a single smart charger to 2 batteries is a >no-no. A 'dumb' trickle charger perhaps. You can hook as many batteries in parallel as you wish for charging from any source. The battery charger doesn't know if you have one 34 a.h. battery or two 17 a.h. batteries and doesn't care. See: http://tinyurl.com/q6klx7 Smart chargers are ALWAYS the device of choice for walk-away-and-forget-it maintenance of rechargeable batteries. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:34 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Modifying the Piper plug At 01:08 PM 5/12/2009, you wrote: > >Bob, > >In one of your links you posted here, there is a diagram for >modifying the plug. It has several numerical references on the >various steps and parts, but I can't find the text or reference >guide to those numerical references. >Could you please link or post? > >Thanks for being such a valuable resource. I presume you're talking about this article: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf Can you be more specific as to what numbers in text don't connect to numbers in figures? Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:38 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system At 08:45 AM 5/12/2009, you wrote: > >I'm also very interested in learning how to design / craft a method >for connecting a GPU to a 2 battery (Z-14) a/c. Experience has >taught me that notwithstanding my excellent memory and scrupulous >use of checklists that some gremlin inevitably sneaks into the >cockpit and turns the master on, while I'm out enjoying myself at a >distant airfield. If this happens at home field its less of an >issue, but when it happens away, =-O . Anyone done this, or have >some suggestions? Active notification of low voltage (nice flashing light on panel) for each system is a good hedge against leaving the master switch on. Also, oil pressure switches can be used to control both an hour-meter (oil pressure up) and and low pressure light (engine stopped). Wiring a small buzzer in parallel with the light helps too once the engine is stopped. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:31 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery Charger as Ground Power At 06:08 AM 5/12/2009, you wrote: >i have 6 or 8 of these little chargers on all my toys. i have >noticed on some some that the voltage was too low. i tried once to >adjust the voltage but couldn't get anything to turn.i guess i will >go back and try again to adjust the voltage on a couple that are too >low. on the one that was too high i soldered a diode in line and >dropped the voltage. > bob noffs > >On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 8:31 PM, David L. ><skywagon@charter.net> wrote: ><skywagon@charter.net> > >The little, cheap Harbor Freight "maintainers" work quite well. I >have used several. One key point however, ...many of them come set >a tad too high in their fixed "float" voltage, to my thinking. I >have seen them as high as 13.9 v. > >The good news, is they can be adjusted to the float voltage that you >want. The little controller box should have a back lid that is >lightly glued in place. Carefully work a very narrow blade screw >driver or other tough, but thin device into the glued seam and work >it until the back pops off. Inside is a small circuit board and >potentiometer. It may have a spot of RTV on it. Work this >loose. Turning the pot CW lowers to float voltage. I like about >13.2 v. Others may want a slightly different setting. I usually >locate where the pot slotted screw adjust hole is located next to >the little case and drill a 3/16 hole. That way, it can be adjusted >from the outside. The little unit is quite stable after you get the >setting where you want it. David David's suggestions are worthy of consideration but he doesn't mention specific model numbers from H.F. I've tested several battery charger products from H.F. and found some that were not suited to our tasks. What we're looking for are devices that first "top off" a battery and then "drop to maintenance". This kind of behavior is illustrated in . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_3.jpg This curve is from the Schumacher 1562 series chargers available from WalMart for about $20. There are dozens of other products that produce similar charge/maintenance profiles. This one . . . http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42292 . . . does not. I found a pot inside to adjust the output voltage . . . but only ONE pot. It's a device suitable for maintaining an already charged battery (adjust it for 13.1 volts) but will not charge a battery. Based on its description and price, this device http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=99857 shows more promise. Haven't had time to go get one and check it out but in the mean time, the Schumacher 1562 is a sure bet http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery_Chargers/Schumacher_Chargers/1562.jpg Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:50:06 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Connecting a battery charger to a 2 battery system Good Afternoon Deems. Bob Nuckolls Suggested: "Active notification of low voltage (nice flashing light on panel) for each system is a good hedge against leaving the master switch on. Also, oil pressure switches can be used to control both an hour-meter (oil pressure up) and a low pressure light (engine stopped). Wiring a small buzzer in parallel with the light helps too once the engine is stopped." We have such an arrangement on our Piper Pawnee glider tow plane. Works great. I have also seen a strobe light hooked up in the same manner. Most of us tend to make a loving last glance at our pride and joy before we abandon the scene. It is hard to walk away with the strobes firing! Happy Skies Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator 628 West 86th Street Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- **************Dell Mini Netbooks: Great deals starting at $299 after instant savings! ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:50:06 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Modifying the Piper plug From: "woxofswa" Thanks Bob, That is exactly what I needed. The link you posted in the "24 V system crowbar needed" thread had the diagram, but not the text. Thanks again. -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243897#243897 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:49 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Modifying the Piper plug At 12:48 PM 5/13/2009, you wrote: > >Thanks Bob, > >That is exactly what I needed. > >The link you posted in the "24 V system crowbar needed" thread had >the diagram, but not the text. > >Thanks again. Okay, very good. Be advised that AEC is offering stand-alone crowbar ov modules. We've sorted through some fabrication enhancements and will put them in the catalog soon. In the mean time, you can order them by emailing me directly. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:29:33 PM PST US From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Modifying the Piper plug Okay, very good. Be advised that AEC is offering stand-alone crowbar ov modules. We've sorted through some fabrication enhancements and will put them in the catalog soon. In the mean time, you can order them by emailing me directly. Bob . . . Bob, I will be needing 2 OV modules, one for my alternator circuit and one for ground power. Do you have pricing for your modules? Are they available both in kit and assembled form? Roger ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:54 PM PST US From: "Ralph Finch" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment? I am grounding a gizmotron (Dynon pitot heater controller) to a wing rib with a Fast-On Tab. I used a pop rivet to attach the Tab to the rib, but then it occurred to me this might not be acceptable. The Tab can rotate around the rivet, though not freely or loosely. I'm not concerned about the mechanical properties as much as the electrical. Maybe a tighter connection is required? Having been wrong about almost everything electrical in the past, I thought I'd post here and get a definitive answer. Ralph Finch Davis, CA RV-9A QB-SA ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:53 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment? From: "Matt Prather" It will work for a while, though I could imagine it might get hot, and then maybe intermittent. It doesn't sound like it's a "gas tight" connection, so it's not the best we know how to do.. A machine screw and nut would be better I think. I'm sure someone with more direct experience will chime in. Matt- > > > I am grounding a gizmotron (Dynon pitot heater controller) to a wing rib > with a Fast-On Tab. I used a pop rivet to attach the Tab to the rib, but > then it occurred to me this might not be acceptable. The Tab can rotate > around the rivet, though not freely or loosely. I'm not concerned about > the > mechanical properties as much as the electrical. Maybe a tighter > connection > is required? > > Having been wrong about almost everything electrical in the past, I > thought > I'd post here and get a definitive answer. > > Ralph Finch > Davis, CA > RV-9A QB-SA > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:57:24 PM PST US From: "Russ" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RV-9 Wing Wire Routing I am wrapping up my RV-9 wings and am ready to route the wiring with the following components (right wing). Anyone have any advice on routing "pairing"? I have three wire runs available two adjacent to each other just rear of the wing spar and then a third in the wing trailing edge. 1- Dynon autopilot roll servo wiring set 2- Archer VOR/ILS co-ax cable (2 cables) Whiskey Victor 3 - strobe light 4 - LED position light 5 - HID landing light (wig-wag) thanks Russ Airey RV-9A Wrapping up Fuselage and Wing Construction ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:06 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RV-9 Wing Wire Routing At 07:54 PM 5/13/2009, you wrote: > I am wrapping up my RV-9 wings and am ready to route the wiring > with the following components (right wing). Anyone have any advice > on routing "pairing"? I have three wire runs available two > adjacent to each other just rear of the wing spar and then a third > in the wing trailing edge. > >1- Dynon autopilot roll servo wiring set >2- Archer VOR/ILS co-ax cable (2 cables) >Whiskey Victor > 3 - strobe light > 4 - LED position light > 5 - HID landing light (wig-wag) Run them all together if you wish. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:06 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment? At 06:18 PM 5/13/2009, you wrote: > >I am grounding a gizmotron (Dynon pitot heater controller) to a wing rib >with a Fast-On Tab. I used a pop rivet to attach the Tab to the rib, but >then it occurred to me this might not be acceptable. The Tab can rotate >around the rivet, though not freely or loosely. I'm not concerned about the >mechanical properties as much as the electrical. Maybe a tighter connection >is required? > >Having been wrong about almost everything electrical in the past, I thought >I'd post here and get a definitive answer.\ What you're looking for in bringing terminal and airplane together is a GAS TIGHT joint. This is between the terminal face that comes into contact with the aircraft's metallic surface. This usually means that you've applied enough force to DEFORM irregularities in the two surfaces and literally squash the materials together. This is the same process described in: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf If you want a local grounding joint that outlasts the rest of the airplane use 10-32 hardware to bring terminal and airplane together. Brighten up the terminal surface that touches the airplane. Brighten up the airplane that touches the terminal. SMOOTH! and SHINY! don't scuff it up with coarse abrasives. Make up the joint with the a washer between screw head (or nut) and the opposite side of the terminal. Use metal locknut (MS21042-L3) on the screw. "Icing on the cake" is to coat one of the mating electrical conduction surfaces with thin layer of silicone grease before mating. Torque to 20 in-lbs. THAT joint will not spin on the screw . . in fact, you should tear the wire grip off the terminal before the rest of it moves. If you pop-riveted a nav light ground, it would probably be okay but the higher you go in current through the joint the more important it is to get it gas tight. Short of soldering/welding the joint, what I've described is the best we know how to do. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:48 PM PST US From: "Ralph Finch" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment? Thanks Matt and Bob. Once again you guys confirmed my suspicions that I have much to learn. 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