---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/19/09: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:38 AM - Re: Re: Contactor and Crowbar Ratings (James Quinn) 2. 03:36 AM - Re: 12 Volt .vs. 24 Volt (Brooke Wolf) 3. 04:34 AM - Re: Modifying the Piper plug (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS) 4. 05:41 AM - Re: Re: Contactor and Crowbar Ratings (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 06:37 AM - Re: 12 Volt vs. 24 Volt (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 07:08 AM - Re: 12 Volt vs. 24 Volt (Valin & Allyson Thorn) 7. 08:45 AM - Re: Insulation on Welding Wire (D Fritz) 8. 08:59 AM - Insulation on Welding Wire (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 09:00 AM - EV200 noise (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 09:15 AM - Re: Re: Insulation on Welding Wire (LarryMcFarland) 11. 09:21 AM - Re: Insulation on Welding Wire (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 12. 09:27 AM - Re: Marking Wires? (Scott R. Shook) 13. 10:18 AM - Re: Marking Wires? (Ian) 14. 10:34 AM - Re: Marking Wires? (BobsV35B@aol.com) 15. 10:34 AM - Re: Marking Wires? (Joe Ronco) 16. 10:47 AM - Re: Marking Wires? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 17. 03:34 PM - Re: Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment? (Bill Mauledriver Watson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:38:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Contactor and Crowbar Ratings From: James Quinn Bob,Why would the Tyco EV200 create noise in some applications and how could this problem be mitigated? On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 16:42, Craig Winkelmann wrote: > capav8r@gmail.com> > > Bob: > > These urls > > Even the $high$ contactors have bad days > > http://tinyurl.com/qmk6gm > > If you're loosing sleep over it, consider the > these EV200 series contactors. They feature > automatic coil current reduction after pull-in > to reduce continuous power to keep the contactor > energized. However, they're about 6X the price > of the 70 series device and do generate some > noise that has been a problem for a few builders. > See: > > http://tinyurl.com/qazl8t > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244422#244422 > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:36:18 AM PST US From: Brooke Wolf Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 12 Volt .vs. 24 Volt Thanks to everybody for their comments. It is much easier to make informed decisions when armed with the insight that this group provides. Thanks to Bob and everybody else for making this possible! Brooke ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:09 AM PST US From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Modifying the Piper plug Okay, very good. Be advised that AEC is offering stand-alone crowbar ov modules. We've sorted through some fabrication enhancements and will put them in the catalog soon. In the mean time, you can order them by emailing me directly. Bob . . . Bob, I will be needing 2 OV modules, one for my alternator circuit and one for ground power. Do you have pricing for your modules? Are they available both in kit and assembled form? Roger ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:18 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Contactor and Crowbar Ratings At 03:33 AM 5/19/2009, you wrote: >Bob, >Why would the Tyco EV200 create noise in some applications and how >could this problem be mitigated? "Noise" by definition is the artifact of rapidly changing current flow that propagates from some antagonist to some victim. This is described in more detail in the book. Sometimes the 'noise' is an intentional byproduct of a useful radiation. For example, you radiate strong signals from your comm and transponder antennas to achieve a useful purpose. In some cases, the stronger the radiation, the better. However, this radio frequency energy can become a nuisance too. Its sorta like being pleased that your wheat fields are benefiting from a good rain shower but the holes in your roof are a source of concern. The EV200 (and similar devices) use an transistor that's turned on with varying duty cycle to reduce current in the contactor coil after pull-in is achieved. The speed of the switching device, the amount of current it carries, the area of its "antennas", the frequency of operation and the artifacts of current modulation flowing out on the wires are all ingredients that go into a recipe for problems. The stuff that gets outside the product needs to be evaluated for potential nuisance if not hazard. This is part of what DO-160/Mil-STD-704 is about. In the case of the EV200, the occasional OBAM aircraft builder has heard the duty cycle switching of the EV200's control electronics as a "buzz" in their audio system. I've not been able to put my hands on one of these problems to deduce the magnitude of potential noise or track down the specific propagation path. However, it's a pretty fair bet that poor grounding techniques are the probable cause. I wouldn't shy away from an EV200 installation based on a reported noise issue. I've never found a noise problem I couldn't fix. I've found problems that the customer decided not to fix because it involved $millions$ of design changes to an airframe. But in our airplanes, the risk of noise is low, the cost of the solution is not great. In response to our List discussion late last week on the ratings for the lowly el-cheeso contactors, I've begun a design for a contactor power management module. This device will be assembled much like the over voltage modules . . . quasi-potted in double walled heat shrink. It's easy to add this device to an el-cheeso contactor and achieve improved electrical performance that emulates the EV200. At the same time, it separates control electronics from the contactor. If the contactor ever requires replacing, then you don't need to buy new electronics. Similarly, if the electronics craps, you don't toss out a perfectly good contactor. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9024/9024-700-1P1.pdf I have an upcoming opportunity to get into the EMC lab with a customer's product for DO-160 conducted emissions testing. I'm planning to piggy-back a couple of my projects into the same testing session. If my software guru can get me some exemplar chips for the 9024, I can do an EMC look-see to confirm my confidence in its OBAM aircraft friendly demeanor. This module will drastically reduce the temperature rise on the RBM/W-R/Stancore contactors. This not only reduces energy required to keep the critter closed, it honors the manufacturer's ratings limits for use in systems with bus voltages high enough to charge batteries. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:41 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 12 Volt vs. 24 Volt At 10:32 PM 5/18/2009, you wrote: > >As more and varied low current draw devices become available, do you >see PV in the equation? Photovoltaic? Not soon. The power/weight ratio for PV generators is not attractive, yet. Yeah, there are some demonstration projects out there. http://www.greenjobs.com/Public/IndustryNews/inews04432.htm . . . but if you're anything like me, flying at night and on cloudy days is not an option I'd want to give up. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:06 AM PST US From: Valin & Allyson Thorn Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 12 Volt vs. 24 Volt Thanks, Allyson On May 18, 2009, at 9:23 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > > > > At 08:06 PM 5/18/2009, you wrote: > > > > If you're thinking heated prop, Elec air conditioning, Elec cabin > heat, > heated seals, or other high-energy goodies, then a 24V system/ > alternator > offers twice the "power" for roughly the same system weight as a 12v > alternator. It's not the (potential) smaller wire savings that is > significant/relevant, rather it's twice the available power from the > same > weight alternator, contactors, etc (i.e. the heavy items). > > Which reminds me of advice I've offered in > years past but worth repeating again: The > first task for crafting your electrical system > is to craft a load analysis. If your maximum > cruising load is expected to exceed 1000 watts, > then PERHAPS a 28v system is called for. > > In the past 20 years, I've been directly > involved in crafting only two 28v OBAM > aircraft. One was a LongEz where the owner > wanted to fly a lot in the northern climes. > A 100 amp, 28v alternator was included to > over about 200 watts of energy to run the > airplane . . . and 2,000 watts for toe > heaters! > > The other was a Lancair IV with electrically > driven air conditioning. But even this system > pretty low duty cycle. For all the weight, cost > and complexity of an air conditioner, it operates > an average of 30 minutes per flight cycle in > hot weather. The rest of the time, it was dead > weight. > > The 14/28 debate really isn't a debate if you > need the energy. But with continuing advances > in LED lighting, LCD under glass instruments, > etc the energy required to run the vast majority > of the OBAM fleet has been going down. It's a > rare airplane that needs more than 500 watts > (40A at 14v) continuous running loads. Up to > twice that load is easily carried by modern > automotive alternators. There are a lot of > cars coming off the line these days with 100+ > amp alternators on them. > > > Bob . . . > > ----------------------------------------) > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > ---------------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:45:43 AM PST US From: D Fritz Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Insulation on Welding Wire Thanks for the replies Larry and Jay.- Has anyone else got any input on t he material of the insulation?- Particularly, would I be buying into exce ssive risk using the "Thermoplastic Rubber" insulated welding wire that's r ated at 80C or do I need to consider going to the 105C or 125C rated materi als?- I don't intend to have an electrical fire, but I like to plan for t he worst and hope for the best... - Da =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:59:44 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Insulation on Welding Wire At 10:39 AM 5/19/2009, you wrote: >Thanks for the replies Larry and Jay. Has anyone else got any input >on the material of the insulation? Particularly, would I be buying >into excessive risk using the "Thermoplastic Rubber" insulated >welding wire that's rated at 80C or do I need to consider going to >the 105C or 125C rated materials? I don't intend to have an >electrical fire, but I like to plan for the worst and hope for the best... Don't loose any sleep over it. You're not going to start an electrical fire by heating a fat wire. Welding cable is just fine. It's inexpensive and a joy to work with. Wires that burn are the itty-bitty fellers that should have fuses and/or breakers protecting them. Now, the insulation on your wires might CONTRIBUTE to a fuel fed fire but this is exceedingly rare . . . and if you've got a gasoline or oil fed fire going, adding a few ounces of insulation is the least of your worries. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:04 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: EV200 noise At 03:33 AM 5/19/2009, you wrote: >Bob, >Why would the Tyco EV200 create noise in some applications and how >could this problem be mitigated? "Noise" by definition is the artifact of rapidly changing current flow that propagates from some antagonist to some victim. This is described in more detail in the book. Sometimes the 'noise' is an intentional byproduct of a useful radiation. For example, you radiate strong signals from your comm and transponder antennas to achieve a useful purpose. In some cases, the stronger the radiation, the better. However, this radio frequency energy can become a nuisance too. Its sorta like being pleased that your wheat fields are benefiting from a good rain shower but the holes in your roof are a source of concern. The EV200 (and similar devices) use an transistor that's turned on with varying duty cycle to reduce current in the contactor coil after pull-in is achieved. The speed of the switching device, the amount of current it carries, the area of its "antennas", the frequency of operation and the artifacts of current modulation flowing out on the wires are all ingredients that go into a recipe for problems. The stuff that gets outside the product needs to be evaluated for potential nuisance if not hazard. This is part of what DO-160/Mil-STD-704 is about. In the case of the EV200, the occasional OBAM aircraft builder has heard the duty cycle switching of the EV200's control electronics as a "buzz" in their audio system. I've not been able to put my hands on one of these problems to deduce the magnitude of potential noise or track down the specific propagation path. However, it's a pretty fair bet that poor grounding techniques are the probable cause. I wouldn't shy away from an EV200 installation based on a reported noise issue. I've never found a noise problem I couldn't fix. I've found problems that the customer decided not to fix because it involved $millions$ of design changes to an airframe. But in our airplanes, the risk of noise is low, the cost of the solution is not great. In response to our List discussion late last week on the ratings for the lowly el-cheeso contactors, I've begun a design for a contactor power management module. This device will be assembled much like the over voltage modules . . . quasi-potted in double walled heat shrink. It's easy to add this device to an el-cheeso contactor and achieve improved electrical performance that emulates the EV200. At the same time, it separates control electronics from the contactor. If the contactor ever requires replacing, then you don't need to buy new electronics. Similarly, if the electronics craps, you don't toss out a perfectly good contactor. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9024/9024-700-1P1.pdf I have an upcoming opportunity to get into the EMC lab with a customer's product for DO-160 conducted emissions testing. I'm planning to piggy-back a couple of my projects into the same testing session. If my software guru can get me some exemplar chips for the 9024, I can do an EMC look-see to confirm my confidence in its OBAM aircraft friendly demeanor. This module will drastically reduce the temperature rise on the RBM/W-R/Stancore contactors. This not only reduces energy required to keep the critter closed, it honors the manufacturer's ratings limits for use in systems with bus voltages high enough to charge batteries. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:28 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Insulation on Welding Wire Considering welding wire is subjected to temporary flame, molten hot metal and much abuse, I'd think it's an ideal product to carry the heavy currents you'll be running thru it. The insulation doesn't want to burn unless you've a really hot one going. By then, I doubt you'd want to be there either. I'd rate the risk as very low for welding cable insulation. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com D Fritz wrote: > Thanks for the replies Larry and Jay. Has anyone else got any input > on the material of the insulation? Particularly, would I be buying > into excessive risk using the "Thermoplastic Rubber" insulated welding > wire that's rated at 80C or do I need to consider going to the 105C or > 125C rated materials? I don't intend to have an electrical fire, but > I like to plan for the worst and hope for the best... > > Da > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:51 AM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Insulation on Welding Wire Yes and think of the abuse welding cable takes on the industrial job site or ship yard..I never seen a welding cable sparking to ground in 25 years of construction! Frank At 10:39 AM 5/19/2009, you wrote: >Thanks for the replies Larry and Jay. Has anyone else got any input on >the material of the insulation? Particularly, would I be buying into >excessive risk using the "Thermoplastic Rubber" insulated welding wire >that's rated at 80C or do I need to consider going to the 105C or 125C >rated materials? I don't intend to have an electrical fire, but I like >to plan for the worst and hope for the best... Don't loose any sleep over it. You're not going to start an electrical fire by heating a fat wire. Welding cable is just fine. It's inexpensive and a joy to work with. Wires that burn are the itty-bitty fellers that should have fuses and/or breakers protecting them. Now, the insulation on your wires might CONTRIBUTE to a fuel fed fire but this is exceedingly rare . . . and if you've got a gasoline or oil fed fire going, adding a few ounces of insulation is the least of your worries. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:33 AM PST US From: "Scott R. Shook" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Marking Wires? I did exactly what Jay described here. For some of the smaller wire runs (20-22AWG) I actually used 2 pieces of heat shrink. The first I would shrink on to give the wire some girth, then I would slip on my label and shrink on another piece to hold the label in place. It is working great so far. Scott R. Shook RV-7A (Building) N696JS (Reserved) _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jaybannist@cs.com Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 10:26 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Marking Wires? Don, I used a laser printer with Arial 7 point type, all caps to make labels. I would have 4 lines, aligned one below the other. I cut these labels out, rolled them around the wire, slipped clear tubing over the paper and heat shrunk it. I labeled both ends of each wire. I labeled the first end at the first terminal at my shop bench. The other end would wait until I knew the wire length to the second terminal. That was usually in the airplane, just before I installed the final terminal connector. Experience tells me that adequate labeling is an absolute necessity. Jay Bannister -----Original Message----- From: mosquito56 Sent: Fri, 15 May 2009 11:54 am Subject: AeroElectric-List: Marking Wires? I am looking for a way to mark my wires in my Zodiac 601XL. I am just finishing up the body and will begin engine installation soon. Can anyone suggest a method to print on shrink sleeving if possible? I have no idea what one would be called. I had heard there was a way to use a laser printer to do this in some way also. Any other ideas would be welcome. Don -------- Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx Apologies if I seem antagonistic. I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance in this thing we call life. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244167#244167 _____ size=2 width="100%" align=center> Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:37 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Marking Wires? From: Ian Having had very recent experience of this, just remember that the really neat, shrunk on labels can be fiendishly difficult to read when you're upside down, under the panel, on the tarmac. There is something to be said for larger labels, or even a coded system and a lookup table. Ian Brown Flight testing RV-9A On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 09:26 -0700, Scott R. Shook wrote: > I did exactly what Jay described here. For some of the smaller wire > runs (20-22AWG) I actually used 2 pieces of heat shrink. The first I > would shrink on to give the wire some girth, then I would slip on my > label and shrink on another piece to hold the label in place. It is > working great so far. > > > Scott R. Shook > RV-7A (Building) > N696JS (Reserved) > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > From:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > jaybannist@cs.com > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 10:26 > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Marking Wires? > > > > > Don, > > I used a laser printer with Arial 7 point type, all caps to make > labels. I would have 4 lines, aligned one below the other. I cut > these labels out, rolled them around the wire, slipped clear tubing > over the paper and heat shrunk it. I labeled both ends of each wire. I > labeled the first end at the first terminal at my shop bench. The > other end would wait until I knew the wire length to the second > terminal. That was usually in the airplane, just before I installed > the final terminal connector. Experience tells me that adequate > labeling is an absolute necessity. > > Jay Bannister > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mosquito56 > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Sent: Fri, 15 May 2009 11:54 am > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Marking Wires? > > > > > > > > > I am looking for a way to mark my wires in my Zodiac 601XL. I am just finishing > > > > up the body and will begin engine installation soon. > > > > > > > > Can anyone suggest a method to print on shrink sleeving if possible? I have no > > > > idea what one would be called. > > > > I had heard there was a way to use a laser printer to do this in some way also. > > > > > > > > > > > > Any other ideas would be welcome. > > > > > > > > Don > > > > > > > > -------- > > > > Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx > > > > Apologies if I seem antagonistic. > > > > I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for > > > > assistance in this thing we call life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244167#244167 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > size=2 width="100%" align=center> > Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at > http://www.cs.com > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:30 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Marking Wires? Good Afternoon Ian, I find that one of the advantages to marking directly on the wires such as the big boys do is that if I can't read the label in one spot, there is a good chance I will be able to read it within a foot or two of the termination point. Happy Skies Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator 628 West 86th Street Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 In a message dated 5/19/2009 12:20:34 P.M. Central Daylight Time, ixb@videotron.ca writes: Having had very recent experience of this, just remember that the really neat, shrunk on labels can be fiendishly difficult to read when you're upside down, under the panel, on the tarmac. There is something to be said for larger labels, or even a coded system and a lookup table. Ian Brown **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! Excfooter51609NO62) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:30 AM PST US From: "Joe Ronco" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Marking Wires? A simple and low cost way to mark wires is to use wire number markers (1/4=94 x 1 =BC=94) lengthwise on each end of the wire and then put heat shrink over it. The only down side is that you have to keep a chart showing what each wire number is for. See: http://cableorganizer.com/wire-marker/#features Joe R From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott R. Shook Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 10:27 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Marking Wires? I did exactly what Jay described here. For some of the smaller wire runs (20-22AWG) I actually used 2 pieces of heat shrink. The first I would shrink on to give the wire some girth, then I would slip on my label and shrink on another piece to hold the label in place. It is working great so far. Scott R. Shook RV-7A (Building) N696JS (Reserved) _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jaybannist@cs.com Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 10:26 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Marking Wires? Don, I used a laser printer with Arial 7 point type, all caps to make labels. I would have 4 lines, aligned one below the other. I cut these labels out, rolled them around the wire, slipped clear tubing over the paper and heat shrunk it. I labeled both ends of each wire. I labeled the first end at the first terminal at my shop bench. The other end would wait until I knew the wire length to the second terminal. That was usually in the airplane, just before I installed the final terminal connector. Experience tells me that adequate labeling is an absolute necessity. Jay Bannister -----Original Message----- From: mosquito56 Sent: Fri, 15 May 2009 11:54 am Subject: AeroElectric-List: Marking Wires? I am looking for a way to mark my wires in my Zodiac 601XL. I am just finishing up the body and will begin engine installation soon. Can anyone suggest a method to print on shrink sleeving if possible? I have no idea what one would be called. I had heard there was a way to use a laser printer to do this in some way also. Any other ideas would be welcome. Don -------- Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx Apologies if I seem antagonistic. I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance in this thing we call life. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244167#244167
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:59 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Marking Wires? At 12:29 PM 5/19/2009, you wrote: >A simple and low cost way to mark wires is to >use wire number markers (1/4 x 1 ) lengthwise >on each end of the wire and then put heat shrink >over it. The only down side is that you have to >keep a chart showing what each wire number is for. Before you spend a lot of $time$ putting numbers on individual wires, think through the expected return on investment. While the wires are waiting to be tied off, a masking tape flag with a sharpie notation of where it goes will get you done. Now, what is the likelihood that you'll benefit from the existence of ANY single wire marking at some time in the future? When you're working with 3" wire bundles of hundreds of wires, yeah . . . but the future maintenance value of individual wire marking is of limited value in a single engine airplane. But if you must . . . B&C still sells the clear heat-shrink kit I used to offer for marking wires like this: http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/Wire_Marking.jpg You can print columns of labels in 6pt type on full sheets of label material. Pull of the backing sheet, paste to a plastic cutting board. Use x-acto knife to cut out label of interest and attach to wire with clear shrink. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:34:39 PM PST US From: Bill Mauledriver Watson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment? Bob detailed out the acceptable practice documented in AC43.13-1b part 11-190. I kept a copy of that page handy as I wired up my first few grounds. (sorry if someone already said this, I'm catching up on email) Bill "back from some r&r" Watson RV10 Ralph Finch wrote: > > I am grounding a gizmotron (Dynon pitot heater controller) to a wing rib > with a Fast-On Tab. I used a pop rivet to attach the Tab to the rib, but > then it occurred to me this might not be acceptable. The Tab can rotate > around the rivet, though not freely or loosely. I'm not concerned about the > mechanical properties as much as the electrical. Maybe a tighter connection > is required? > > Having been wrong about almost everything electrical in the past, I thought > I'd post here and get a definitive answer. > > Ralph Finch > Davis, CA > RV-9A QB-SA > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.