Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:37 AM - Re: Engine mount as starter ground path (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 06:37 AM - KX-125 Installation Manual? (jf3sb)
3. 07:15 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 05/26/09 (Johnson, Phillip (EXP))
4. 07:21 AM - SEC-1223 Power Supply --Question re isolating diode and charge limiting resistor (DCS317@aol.com)
5. 07:46 AM - Re: KX-125 Installation Manual? (Werner Schneider)
6. 09:21 AM - Grounding philosophy (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 09:29 AM - SEC-1223 Power Supply (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 10:03 AM - Re: Grounding philosophy (Matt Prather)
9. 11:03 AM - Re: Engine mount as starter ground path (Lincoln Keill)
10. 11:13 AM - Re: Engine mount as starter ground path (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
11. 12:11 PM - DynaFocal engine mount ring (Bill Bradburry)
12. 12:25 PM - Re: Engine mount as starter ground path (David LLoyd)
13. 01:06 PM - Alternator with built-in regulator (Wade Roe)
14. 01:43 PM - Re: Alternator with built-in regulator (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
15. 02:23 PM - State of the art - then and now (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 02:23 PM - Re: Alternator with built-in regulator (Wade Roe)
17. 02:30 PM - Re: Alternator with built-in regulator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 02:37 PM - Re: Re: Engine mount as starter ground path (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 02:52 PM - Re: Alternator with built-in regulator (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
20. 08:40 PM - Re: Alternator with built-in regulator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 08:41 PM - Military_Humor_Miss_America_1.jpg (JPEG Image, 490x442 pixels) (RScott)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Engine mount as starter ground path |
At 11:35 PM 5/26/2009, you wrote:
><nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
>t 08:47 PM 5/26/2009, you wrote:
><MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>
>The Z-14 I've put into my RV10 follows the best practices as
>described in the Connection with one oversight.... I have the 2
>sided forest of tabs on the firewall but I only have an AWG 8
>cable running to it from the rear batteries instead of an AWG2 fat
>wire. And it's too late to swap it out without significant re-work.
Bill, re-reading my posting from last night I'm not
sure I conveyed a clear image of my recommendations.
In a nutshell:
Add local grounds to airframe for the batteries if
you don't already have them.
Add crankcase to firewall ground stud for engine.
Leave jumpers across the engine mount biscuits.
You can cut the 8AWG wire out if you wish and
if it is practical. It adds only weight and
offers no significant electrical function.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 2
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Subject: | KX-125 Installation Manual? |
Ladies/Gents:
I'm in the process of wiring up a KX-125 Nav/Com into my Zenith 701 panel. Would
anyone happen to have an installation manual for this radio? I've got the
connector pinouts, but still more questions than answers about what gets connected
where.
Thanks...
John Flavin
Olathe, KS
Zenith CH701 still 80% and holding...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245534#245534
Message 3
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Subject: | RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 05/26/09 |
Bob,
I read your message and went to your web link indicated below and I
can't accept that it is a good design. The problem that I see is that
your design does not create a single ground reference. Ideally you want
the engine block to be the ground reference with all currents flowing
through it. To this end you need to connect the battery -ve to the
crankcase and then make all grounds connect, either directly or
indirectly, to the crankcase as well. In doing this there will be no
ground potential differences to upset the instrumentation. If we look
at schematic given in http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grnding.pdf
there is no alternator shown but we all know that the alternator ground
is connected to the crankcase so all the current that the alternator
generates must pass through the engine block and then on to the battery
through the interconnections given in your circuit. If I now connect an
instrument such as an engine monitor to the instrument panel and ground
it as indicated in the diagram the ground voltage that the engine
monitor uses will be different to the ground reference seen by the
sensor located on the engine in particular when high currents are being
sourced from the alternator. Such a configuration will cause erroneous
readings unless a differential arrangement is utilised.
In addition to the grounding issues related to the instrumentation it is
likely that, at some point, someone will make some ground connections to
the engine block and some to the instrumentation ground. Somewhere , we
are all human, the two will interconnect (yes you could/should check for
all of these but people don't in particular when the owner is not the
builder). All will be well when the system is new but as the aircraft
ages and maybe the aircraft is sold to a new owner the ground between
the engine and instrumentation/firewall ground will be left off (maybe
after an annual inspection or maintenance session) or degraded through
loose connection. The pilot now tries to start the engine and all of
the current tries to flow through this instrumentation ground. This
causes a melt down of the wiring and a potential ground fire and risk to
those expensive electronics.
It is my opinion, and I believe that the automotive industry also adopts
this philosophy, that you connect the battery ground to the crankcase
and then strap the engine to the airframe/car body and system ground so
that the high current grounds pass only through the engine. Charging
ground currents, which can be extremely high, also only pass through the
engine block thereby preventing erroneous instrumentation and potential
fire risk.
OK I've now started to run and get my flame suit on.
Regards to all
Phillip Johnson
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 01:56:29 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Engine mount as starter ground path
At 10:14 AM 5/26/2009, you wrote:
>
>Does anyone have some scientific information (beyond the practical
>description in the Connection) that I can use to convince someone that
>running the engine ground strap to the engine mount is a poor choice ?
>
>Thanks !
The shortest, lowest resistance and minimum parts count path
in any high current conduction path is the road to Ground
System Nirvana. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grnding.pdf
Engine mounts are steel assembled with steel
hardware. The joints between mounts and other
components of the airframe are not treated for
the purpose of electrical "bonding". The engine
mount is intended to hold the engine on the
airplane and was not designed or installed to
be a part of the electrical system.
Note that Figure Z-15 and Chapter 5 of the
'Connection speak to and illustrate a notion
that engines are best tied to the single point
fire-wall ground block with a single-flexible-
fatwire. To avoid having the firewall sheet
participate in a PARALLEL ground path (read
ground loop) any bonding jumpers across the
engine mounts are best removed.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 4
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Subject: | SEC-1223 Power Supply --Question re isolating diode |
and charge limiting resistor
Bob,
On reading a recent thread on Aerolectrics, I ordered the SEC-1223 Power
Supply from Universal Radio to power my avionics on the ground with direct
connection to my aircraft battery as a battery backup.
Question: The supplied manual gives a warning: "These units are power
supplies and not battery chargers. Do not connect these units directly to a
battery. Battery charging and battery charging may be undertaken only when
the battery is connected through suitable external isolating diodes and
charge limiting resistor. The isolating diode will ensure that the battery
does not back power the power supply.. When the battery is deeply
discharged, it will initially draw a very large charging current and thus, will
force
the power supply into current limit mode for prolonged periods. This is
harmful for the power supply. The charge limiting resistor will limit the
charging current, thereby, ensuring that the maximum charging current is
well below the current limit value of the power supply. It is recommended
that optional battery backup module BBM-1225 may be used to convert SEC-1223
for battery backup application."
Looks simple enough to make my own module? Could you recommend a circuit
with diagram and give your two cents regarding the warning?
Don Schmiesing
**************Dinner Made Easy Newsletter - Simple Meal Ideas for Your
Family. Sign Up Now!
3Fhttp:%2F%2Frecipes.dinnermadeeasy.com%2F%3FESRC%3D622)
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: KX-125 Installation Manual? |
Sent by PM
br Werner
jf3sb wrote:
>
> Ladies/Gents:
>
> I'm in the process of wiring up a KX-125 Nav/Com into my Zenith 701 panel.
Would anyone happen to have an installation manual for this radio? I've got the
connector pinouts, but still more questions than answers about what gets connected
where.
>
> Thanks...
>
> John Flavin
> Olathe, KS
> Zenith CH701 still 80% and holding...
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245534#245534
>
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Grounding philosophy |
At 09:05 AM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
<phillip.johnson@lmco.com>
Bob,
I read your message and went to your web link indicated below and I
can't accept that it is a good design. The problem that I see is that
your design does not create a single ground reference.
Yes it does. The architectures discussed in Figure Z-15 and
other writings suggeste the stud at the forest of tabs on the
firewall is the central point ground for the aircraft.
Ideally you want
the engine block to be the ground reference with all currents flowing
through it. To this end you need to connect the battery -ve to the
crankcase and then make all grounds connect, either directly or
indirectly, to the crankcase as well. In doing this there will be no
ground potential differences to upset the instrumentation.
Instrumentation is a special case where grounded automotive
sensors are at risk for suffering ground loop interference.
This has been discussed at length in various writings. If the
problem presents itself (usually manifest by a shift in
instrumentation readings in response to alternator loads),
then the "ground" leads for panel mounted instruments need
to be extended to the crankcase. However, if one has a very
low resistance net between he crankcase and the firewall
ground stud . . . then the "problem" may be reduced to
insignificant if not completely unobservable.
<snip>
The pilot now tries to start the engine and all of
the current tries to flow through this instrumentation ground. This
causes a melt down of the wiring and a potential ground fire and risk to
those expensive electronics.
Again, discussed in past publications and postings . . .
"Smoking ground returns" is easily avoided by not closing
the returns. Common occurrences include the risk of
instrumentation grounds for instruments not designed
to live in the real world of aircraft. Another common
risk happens when builders attached p-lead shields to
crankcase at one end and airframe at the other end.
All of my drawings illustrate technique for avoiding
that loop as well.
It is my opinion, and I believe that the automotive industry also adopts
this philosophy, that you connect the battery ground to the crankcase
and then strap the engine to the airframe/car body and system ground so
that the high current grounds pass only through the engine. Charging
ground currents, which can be extremely high, also only pass through the
engine block thereby preventing erroneous instrumentation and potential
fire risk.
Batteries go to crankcases in cars because the battery
always sits right next to the engine. The automotive
industry has adopted the same philosophy as every other
industry for minimizing the numbers of joints, fasteners
and pieces of wire in the fat-wire conduction paths.
Now, if one had a battery on the forward side of
the firewall then there is no electrical reason
NOT to ground the battery right to the crankcase.
There are mechanical reasons not to . . . we've
already established the value of a 2AWG equivalent
jumper from crankcase to ground stud. This same stud
becomes a practical spot to ground a battery as
well . . . and the 2AWG bonding strap makes sure
that voltage differences between the crankcase
and the ground stud are insignificantly small.
If the battery is aft of the firewall, then the
most practical battery ground is the firewall
ground stud . . . or to the airframe on an all
metal airplane.
OK I've now started to run and get my flame suit on.
Zero risk from me sir . . .
Bob . . .
Message 7
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Subject: | SEC-1223 Power Supply |
At 09:18 AM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
Bob,
On reading a recent thread on Aerolectrics, I ordered the SEC-1223
Power Supply from Universal Radio to power my avionics on the ground
with direct connection to my aircraft battery as a battery backup.
Question: The supplied manual gives a warning: "These units are
power supplies and not battery chargers. Do not connect these units
directly to a battery. Battery charging and battery charging may be
undertaken only when the battery is connected through suitable
external isolating diodes and charge limiting resistor. The
isolating diode will ensure that the battery does not back power the
power supply.. When the battery is deeply discharged, it will
initially draw a very large charging current and thus, will force the
power supply into current limit mode for prolonged periods. This is
harmful for the power supply. The charge limiting resistor will
limit the charging current, thereby, ensuring that the maximum
charging current is well below the current limit value of the power
supply. It is recommended that optional battery backup module
BBM-1225 may be used to convert SEC-1223 for battery backup application."
Looks simple enough to make my own module? Could you recommend a
circuit with diagram and give your two cents regarding the warning?
Yes. I have a drawing in the pile of things
to do that shows how to convert the SEC-1223 (or
a similar power supply) to an "alternator
emulator". The warnings from Samlex about using
the stand-alone power supply as a battery charger
are well taken. Any time I've used these supplies
to power up the airplane in the shop, the power
supply was used as a battery emulator.
I'll see if I can dig out those drawings and
publish them along with the explanatory text.
In the mean time, just use the power supply to
energize the system (tied to the alternator
b-lead?) but leaving the battery master switch
OFF.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Grounding philosophy |
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
snip
>
> Batteries go to crankcases in cars because the battery
> always sits right next to the engine. The automotive
> industry has adopted the same philosophy as every other
snip
Just to be contrarian, our family has owned two different cars with the
battery in the trunk (rear) and the engine in the front - both foreign
jobs.. :) The manufacturer claims they did it for better weight
distribution. I can't recall whether the batteries were locally
grounded, or if they had a dedicated ground wire running to the front.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Matt-
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Engine mount as starter ground path |
The discussion about engine mounts as ground points has generated a questio
n. -The "When is a Good Ground Not?" article shows 2AWG wire for the high
current paths as do the Z-15 diagrams demonstrating various grounding arch
itectures. -
The Z-13/8 diagram I was planning my electrical system around shows 4AWG wi
res for these same high current paths. -All my "fat wires" will be under
3 feet since my RG battery, starter and battery contactors, 40A alternator,
and firewall ground block will all be on or close to the firewall. -I th
ought I had read somewhere in the "AeroElectric Connection" that 4AWG was f
ine as long as all the fat wires were 3 feet or less, but now I can't find
it.
Could someone confirm that 4AWG welding cable is acceptable for the high cu
rrent wires when these wires are all located on the hot side of the firewal
l, wired per Z-13/8 and each under three feet in length?
Lincoln KeillRV-7A
Do not archive
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Engine mount as starter ground path |
It's crystal clear now! Thanks
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 11:35 PM 5/26/2009, you wrote:
>> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>>
>> t 08:47 PM 5/26/2009, you wrote:
>> <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>>
>> The Z-14 I've put into my RV10 follows the best practices as
>> described in the Connection with one oversight.... I have the 2 sided
>> forest of tabs on the firewall but I only have an AWG 8 cable
>> running to it from the rear batteries instead of an AWG2 fat wire.
>> And it's too late to swap it out without significant re-work.
>
> Bill, re-reading my posting from last night I'm not
> sure I conveyed a clear image of my recommendations.
> In a nutshell:
>
> Add local grounds to airframe for the batteries if
> you don't already have them.
>
> Add crankcase to firewall ground stud for engine.
>
> Leave jumpers across the engine mount biscuits.
>
> You can cut the 8AWG wire out if you wish and
> if it is practical. It adds only weight and
> offers no significant electrical function.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------)
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | DynaFocal engine mount ring |
Not exactly electric, but airplane related...
I have an engine mount ring for sale..
I am using an alternative engine, so I don't need this ring. AC Spruce sells
it for $180 plus shipping. I will sell mine for $125 plus shipping. It is a
Type 1 Dynafocal with 2.75 cups.
Bill B
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Engine mount as starter ground path |
Static is usually described as high voltage and little to no current.
That means those nasty electrons are really juiced up...like a 2 year
old loaded with chocolate cake, etc. They can jump tall buildings, and
wide gaps, etc.
A hopped up electron does not need a good conductor to move and be a
nuisance. Rusty or otherwise not well connected pipes, etc. work just
fine. So connecting a static grounding line to an exhaust pipe should
work just fine to dump most, if not all, of the electrons to ground.
Most of my Cessna wing is bare aluminum. As an extra precaution, I
lightly touch the fuel nozzle to the wing surface before I even take the
fuel caps off. That also relieves any final electrons off the table
before fueling. Also, as the fuel flows, I make sure the nozzle is
touching the metal filler neck. In dry climates especially, flowing
fuel will also generate some static. With the nozzle grounded against
the filler metal that takes care of those speedy critters also.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: Kelly McMullen
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Engine mount as starter ground path
Given such a ground path, how does one get lineboys trained that the
engine exhaust pipe is a terrible place for ground wire, that the fuel
tanks are in the wings, and something like a bare spot on wing tiedown
has a much shorter ground path? I always wonder how static charge is
supposed to make it from the fuel tank through the airframe to the
engine and down the rusty, carboned up exhaust pipe, usually with a
swivel or slip joint or two to that ground wire, without significant
resistance.
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 10:14 AM 5/26/2009, you wrote:
<jpx@Qenesis.com>
Does anyone have some scientific information (beyond the practical
description in the Connection) that I can use to convince someone
that
running the engine ground strap to the engine mount is a poor
choice ?
Thanks !
The shortest, lowest resistance and minimum parts count path
in any high current conduction path is the road to Ground
System Nirvana. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grnding.pdf
Engine mounts are steel assembled with steel
hardware. The joints between mounts and other
components of the airframe are not treated for
the purpose of electrical "bonding". The engine
mount is intended to hold the engine on the
airplane and was not designed or installed to
be a part of the electrical system.
Note that Figure Z-15 and Chapter 5 of the
'Connection speak to and illustrate a notion
that engines are best tied to the single point
fire-wall ground block with a single-flexible-
fatwire. To avoid having the firewall sheet
participate in a PARALLEL ground path (read
ground loop) any bonding jumpers across the
engine mounts are best removed.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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Subject: | Alternator with built-in regulator |
I am building an RV-7 and have purchased a stock alternator from Vans
(in firewall forward kit). I understand this unit to have a built-in
regulator. I hope to use the B&C LR3C-14. Being new to aircraft
electronics...will this create an issue or is there something that I'm
missing?
Wade Roe
SOUTHERN CARBIDE TECHNOLOGIES, INC.
7739 Unity Road M&D Industrial Park
Tuscaloosa, AL 35401
205-248-6700
205-248-6372 fax
Message 14
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Subject: | Alternator with built-in regulator |
If the regulator is built in it means exactly that..No external regulator will
be required or indeed desired... Did you get the Plane Power 60A alternator or
the rebuilt Honda unit I think it is.
The Plane Power is the finest internally regulated alternator there is and Van's
has the best prices on them.
If you are building an electrically dependant airplane or an IFR bird then this
is the unit you should have.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wade Roe
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 1:00 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator with built-in regulator
I am building an RV-7 and have purchased a stock alternator from Vans (in firewall
forward kit). I understand this unit to have a built-in regulator. I hope
to use the B&C LR3C-14. Being new to aircraft electronics...will this create
an issue or is there something that I'm missing?
Wade Roe
SOUTHERN CARBIDE TECHNOLOGIES, INC.
7739 Unity Road M&D Industrial Park
Tuscaloosa, AL 35401
205-248-6700
205-248-6372 fax
Message 15
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Subject: | State of the art - then and now |
I'm in possession of several issues of the Electrical
Experimenter circa 1916. This hobbyist/amateur/semi-
professional publication offered a newsstand source
for both understanding and state of the art news in
a range of technologies.
I'm using one of these magazines as reference for a
science history presentation I'm doing. I've scanned it
for sharing and thought I would post it for those
having an interest in such things. See:
http://tinyurl.com/ofbj3c
It's interesting to see the depth and scope of interests
illustrated on these pages. It's also interesting to
see a level of hucksterism and quackery not unlike
that which pours forth in today's video and print media!
See pdf pages 7, 25, 62 (violet rays), 65 (Pandiculator).
But the casually discriminating eye can easily identify
and appreciate the good stuff of which there is plenty.
Hope you enjoy browsing this piece of technological history.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 16
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Subject: | Alternator with built-in regulator |
The alternator from Vans is a reconditioned Japanese automobile unit
(Honda?) that came with the firewall forward kit. I figured the B&C
linear regulator to be a superior/cleaner product than that on the
alternator.
The plane will be IFR and all electric.
Wade Roe
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 3:37 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Alternator with built-in regulator
(Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
If the regulator is built in it means exactly that..No external
regulator will be required or indeed desired... Did you get the Plane
Power 60A alternator or the rebuilt Honda unit I think it is.
The Plane Power is the finest internally regulated alternator there is
and Van's has the best prices on them.
If you are building an electrically dependant airplane or an IFR bird
then this is the unit you should have.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wade
Roe
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 1:00 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator with built-in regulator
I am building an RV-7 and have purchased a stock alternator from Vans
(in firewall forward kit). I understand this unit to have a built-in
regulator. I hope to use the B&C LR3C-14. Being new to aircraft
electronics...will this create an issue or is there something that I'm
missing?
Wade Roe
SOUTHERN CARBIDE TECHNOLOGIES, INC.
7739 Unity Road M&D Industrial Park
Tuscaloosa, AL 35401
205-248-6700
205-248-6372 fax
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Alternator with built-in regulator |
At 02:59 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>
>I am building an RV-7 and have purchased a stock alternator from Vans
>(in firewall forward kit). I understand this unit to have a built-in
>regulator. I hope to use the B&C LR3C-14. Being new to aircraft
>electronics...will this create an issue or is there something that I'm
>missing?
Do you have a copy of the 'Connection? It speaks to
the various configurations for internally/externally
regulated alternators. The updated chapter on alternators
is posted at:
http://aeroelectric.com/R12A/03_Alternator_12A1.pdf
Most single engine airplanes fly with externally
regulated alternators for reasons offered in the
chapter cited above. But either configuration can
be adapted to aircraft.
If you have a Plane Power unit from Van's, know
that it has been successfully integrated into
aircraft while meeting design goals for ON/OFF,
any time, any conditions control. Further, it's
fitted with over-voltage management.
You won't need an LR-3 for this alternator.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
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Subject: | Re: Engine mount as starter ground path |
At 01:00 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>The discussion about engine mounts as ground points has generated a
>question. The "When is a Good Ground Not?" article shows 2AWG wire
>for the high current paths as do the Z-15 diagrams demonstrating
>various grounding architectures.
>
>The Z-13/8 diagram I was planning my electrical system around shows
>4AWG wires for these same high current paths. All my "fat wires"
>will be under 3 feet since my RG battery, starter and battery
>contactors, 40A alternator, and firewall ground block will all be on
>or close to the firewall. I thought I had read somewhere in the
>"AeroElectric Connection" that 4AWG was fine as long as all the fat
>wires were 3 feet or less, but now I can't find it.
>
>Could someone confirm that 4AWG welding cable is acceptable for the
>high current wires when these wires are all located on the hot side
>of the firewall, wired per Z-13/8 and each under three feet in length?
The drawings published on our website and publications
are intended to illustrate architectures. Exact sizing
of circuit protection, wires, batteries, alternators, etc.
are up to the builder based on a host of considerations.
Your recollection is accurate in that if the battery,
starter and alternator are all within short distances
of each other (3' or so) then 4AWG is adequate to the
task of managing fat-wire duties.
When engine and batteries are remotely located from each
other (rear mounted batteries in RV-8, canard pushers) will
benefit from something bigger like 2AWG battery cables.
Really extreme cases like some some winged watercraft,
parallel 2AWG or 0AWG is often used.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
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Subject: | Alternator with built-in regulator |
In that case send that alternator back to Vans and exchange it for the plane power
unit...Trying to use the B&C regulator (which it was not designed for) is
a bit like putting lipstick on a pig..Its still a pig!
I futzed with a rebuilt alternator for a while and had a couple of scary moments
in IMC..then I changed to the Plane power and its been faultless ever since.
They come with a wonderful reputation. No electrical noise, just fit (with the
supplied brackets) and forget it.
On An all electric IFR airplane the alternator is not the place to be making shortcuts!!!..The
extra couple of hundred bucks is WELL spent.
Frank
RV7a..all electric IFR including 2* EI's and the fuel pumps!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wade Roe
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:20 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Alternator with built-in regulator
The alternator from Vans is a reconditioned Japanese automobile unit
(Honda?) that came with the firewall forward kit. I figured the B&C linear regulator
to be a superior/cleaner product than that on the alternator.
The plane will be IFR and all electric.
Wade Roe
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Subject: | Alternator with built-in regulator |
>
>
>The plane will be IFR and all electric.
>
>Wade Roe
>
Wade, would it be a fair assumption then that
a second alternator will go onto the vacuum
pump pad?
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
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