Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:53 AM - Re: 12V Power Socket (Andrew Butler)
2. 01:50 AM - Re: Bonding for Fueling (JOHN TIPTON)
3. 02:45 AM - Garmin GA 56 GPS Antenna Aerial (JOHN TIPTON)
4. 06:47 AM - Re: Bonding for Fueling (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
5. 07:39 AM - Lightweight Aux Battery? (sonex293)
6. 09:44 AM - Re: sky-tec starter wiring (William Gill)
7. 10:26 AM - Re: sky-tec starter wiring (thomas sargent)
8. 12:21 PM - Re: Rotax 912ULS voltage . . . (Les Goldner)
9. 07:47 PM - Re: sky-tec starter wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 07:47 PM - Re: Lightweight Aux Battery? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 09:50 PM - Bendix 10-357210-1 Ignition switch (Thruster87)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 12V Power Socket |
Thanks to all for the great replies. No worries now!
Andrew.
RV7 (firewall forward and wiring)
EI-EEO (just received!)
Galway, Ireland.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Sent: Thursday, 28 May, 2009 5:15:22 PM GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland, Portugal
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 12V Power Socket
It depends on what you want to accomplish. If you wire it to the buss side
of the master you can power your panel from it during the build. But if you
wire it to the battery side of the master you can power accessories or
trickle charge the battery without turning on the master. There are pluses &
minuses both ways. Think it through and decide what's best for you.
Regards,
Greg Young
> -----Original Message-----
> ground. You should wire the scocket to powerthe panel with
> out turning the master on.
> I have mine that way so I can play with the panel with out
> using the aircraft battery. I have a little cpmpressor /
> battery unit that I take to the hanger and keeps the tires
> up and lets me run my glass panel for setting up a trip etc.
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Bonding for Fueling |
Sorry I missed this thread: why is the exhaust pipe a bad place to connect
the bonding cable to
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Millner [OAK]" <paulmillner@compuserve.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 3:25 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bonding for Fueling
> <paulmillner@compuserve.com>
>
> >> how does one get lineboys trained that the engine exhaust pipe is a
> terrible place for ground wire
>
> Remember, it's not at all important to GROUND an aircraft for fueling.
> What *is* important is to BOND the aircraft to the fuel source, so that
> static charges created by the dielectric fluid called gasoline moving
> through the fueling equipment don't result in a spark at the nozzle.
>
> And... what Bob said about the size of the currents involved.
>
> Call it bonding, not grounding.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Garmin GA 56 GPS Antenna Aerial |
Hi
Is it OK to use the Garmin GA 56 GPS Antenna Aerial as a permament
fixture for the Garmin range of hand (although panel mounted-AirGizmo)
held Garmin GPS
Regards
John
Message 4
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| Subject: | Bonding for Fueling |
Sorry I missed this thread: why is the exhaust pipe a bad place to
connect
the bonding cable to
John
IT'S NOT! Some listers, who don't understand, seem to feel that you
need a
low resistance path all the way from the fuel tank to the bonding point.
In
reality, the static charge is of high voltage and low energy, thus it
will
bleed off very quickly through a high impedance path, i.e. Through rusty
exhaust connections etc. So, the exhaust pipe is a good bonding point.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Lightweight Aux Battery? |
Does anyone have a good alternative lightweight Aux Battery? I'm looking for something
12V 10Ah capacity for emergency EFI powering. I've already got a "fat"
airplane, so would like to keep the weight down if possible. Power requirements
are calculated @ 8 amps. NiMH and LiFePO offer significant weight reduction
at an increase in cost. I haven't found a good way to keep the battery's
charged or a simple fall-over incase of main power failure.
Any Ideas?
Michael
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246142#246142
Message 6
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| Subject: | sky-tec starter wiring |
Try: http://www.skytecair.com/Wiring_Diag.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
thomas sargent
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 10:46 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: sky-tec starter wiring
<sarg314@gmail.com>
Sky-Tec advises against the use of a starter relay, while Bob K.
advocates the use of one (for good reason, as I recall). I have a
separate starter relay in my plane. A couple years ago the Sky-Tec
website had an example schematic for hooking up one of their starters
with a separate starter relay. I had a copy of that, but now I can't
find it and they seem to have removed it from their website.
I believe it showed a jumper between the large +12v terminal and the
small terminal on the starter. Does any one have a copy of that
schematic?
Thanks,
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, final assembly.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: sky-tec starter wiring |
William:
I followed the link back to sky-tec (yet again) and this time I found
what I was looking for. Thanks for making me look again. Seems my
current wiring set-up matches their "certified" diagram, tht is, the
diagram for planes with a starter contactor.
On May 31, 2009, at 9:40 AM, William Gill wrote:
> >
>
> Try: http://www.skytecair.com/Wiring_Diag.htm
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Rotax 912ULS voltage . . . |
Bob,
Here is another twist in the strange continuing low voltage problem saga in
my Rotax 912 / Figure Z16-designed electrical system.
I purchased and installed a new Rotax voltage regulator (called a
regulator/rectifier by Rotax), which provided identical low voltage results.
Just as I was getting ready to return the "defective" regulator I accidently
switched on the endurance bus and, what do you know, the voltage shot up
from 12.9V to 13.8V (as measured through my Dynon glass cockpit and Lowrance
GPS instruments). While still a little low, I can certainly live with 13.8V
under normal working load since this should adequately charge my battery.
Ok, so now it looks like there is something wrong in the Z16 electrical
configuration. I'd rather not leave my endurance buss on all the time
(although I don't think this would hurt anything??) so I would like to fix
the issue. I suspect the problem is associated with the diode that attaches
the two busses shown under "Note 12" on your Z16 diagram. Do you concur? Do
you think I should change this diode, do further testing, or should I look
elsewhere for the problem? The my diode came with a heatsink from B&C. If I
need a new one, and you make them, I need one ASAP since I plan a 1000-mile
trip next weekend.
Thank you again for your help.
Les Goldner
510-549-1622
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 3:46 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Rotax 912ULS voltage . . .
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 12:38 AM 5/26/2009, you wrote:
Thank you for the information Bob.
I am trying to trouble shoot my low voltage problem to determine its
cause (i.e.; the regulator, wiring, or the internal engine
alternator) so I can take corrective action.
There is nothing in the Rotax 912 manuals to assist in doing this. I
checked the internal engine coil resistance reading and found it to
be .7-ohms. The DC voltage at the regulator is the same previously
reported (still under 13-volts). Finally I measured AC voltage coming
from the coils. The voltage varied as follows:
Idle (1900-RPM) was 12.8 volts
2500-RPM was 16.0 v
3000-RPM was 19.0 v
4000-RPM was 24.5 v
cruse(5000-RPM)was not measured.
Bob, Am I correct to think that the AC voltage looks adequate and the
problem is likely a faulty Rotax voltage regulator?
Thanks again for your help.
If you have ANY voltage from the alternator's output winding
at any speed, and the winding is not shorted to ground (very
unlikely) then the alternator is fine. Rotax PM alternators are
exceedingly simple, rugged and reliable. I'm not aware of any
failures.
The Ducati rectifier/regulator supplied with these engines
is another matter. They are of marginal thermal design and
sadly lacking in adjustability. Two conditions VERY
easy to fix if anyone with responsibility for the product
cared.
Unfortunately, replacing it with an identical OEM R/R has
a high probability of installing a similar problem right
out of the box. I've heard that John Deere has a single
phase, PM alternator regulator that is rated for up to
35 amps. Goto http://matronics.com/search
Search the AeroElectric List for AM101406 and you'll
get several hits by folks who discussed it some time
back.
Here are some after-market clones . . .
http://www.watercraftstarter.com/Lawn%20Garden/Regulator%20Rectifier/?nocach
e=1
http://www.amazon.com/Replacement-Voltage-Regulator-Deere-AM101406/dp/B00169
H3E0
I don't see a voltage adjustment mentioned or
shown . . . unfortunate but perhaps understandable.
Most of these regulators are used on small tractors
and most users are not skilled in the use of such
features.
Wish I had my alternator drive stand running. Building
a 'real' PM r/r for aircraft is not a big task . . .
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: sky-tec starter wiring |
At 10:46 PM 5/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>Sky-Tec advises against the use of a starter relay, while Bob K.
>advocates the use of one (for good reason, as I recall). I have a
>separate starter relay in my plane. A couple years ago the Sky-Tec
>website had an example schematic for hooking up one of their starters
>with a separate starter relay. I had a copy of that, but now I can't
>find it and they seem to have removed it from their website.
>
>I believe it showed a jumper between the large +12v terminal and the
>small terminal on the starter. Does any one have a copy of that
>schematic?
Not so long ago in a galaxy very close by,
the first made-for-aircraft light weight starters
were offered by B&C in Newton, KS. The crafters
of design goals and system integrators of those
products were cognizant of the extra-ordinary
performance of the electrical control contactor/
pinion engagement solenoid . . . but at a price.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf
The inductive, high engagement current of
these devices was higher than any contemporary
starter control switches were designed to handle.
Indeed, a number of automobile starter switch
contacts were ill-designed to stroke these
little beasts.
Further, part of the anticipated market for these
starters included type certificated machines that
were already fitted with intermittent duty,
starter contactors.
The marketing philosophy adopted for the B&C
starters was to tie the solenoid coil terminal
to the starter contactor's fat terminal as
depicted in Figure 6 of the paper cited above.
This philosophy mitigated the need for extra-
husky starter switches -AND- offer a drop-in
replacement for TC aircraft starters without
modification of ship's wiring.
Then came competing designs with permanent
magnet motors. Attempts to wire these starters
in the same manner produced a delayed retraction
of the starter pinion gear after the start
button was released. This was a byproduct
of voltage GENERATED by the PM motors as they
spun down. This "counter emf" held the pinion
gear engaged for several seconds.
The PM motor product designer's recommendation
was to wire it just like in cars . . . but they
either overlooked or ignored the inrush current
demands described in the article cited above.
The AEC work-around was to add a starter
control "boost relay" as depicted in Figure Z-22
which isolates the panel mounted start switch
from the extra-ordinary demands of the starter
solenoid/contactor combination.
See also Figures Z-22 notes on page Z-5
of
http://aeroelectric.com/R12A/AppZ_12A3.pdf
So. Your options are (1) wire per the manufacturer's
instructions and select a starter control push-button
or switch suited to the task (don't forget the arc-suppression
diode) or (2) wire per Z-22.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Lightweight Aux Battery? |
At 09:37 AM 5/31/2009, you wrote:
>
>Does anyone have a good alternative lightweight Aux Battery? I'm
>looking for something 12V 10Ah capacity for emergency EFI
>powering. I've already got a "fat" airplane, so would like to keep
>the weight down if possible. Power requirements are calculated @ 8
>amps. NiMH and LiFePO offer significant weight reduction at an
>increase in cost. I haven't found a good way to keep the battery's
>charged or a simple fall-over incase of main power failure.
What engine are you using . . . and which
(if any) Z-figure?
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 11
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| Subject: | Bendix 10-357210-1 Ignition switch |
Bought a rotary ignition switch and would like to know which terminal goes to what
on a Jabiru 3300 engine.Terminals marked R,L LR,BO,Batt ,S and G. L= left
mag,R= right mag G= ground.Don't know where to connect the rest [Bendix 10-357210-1
Ignition switch key OFF,L,R,Both and twist to start] Any help would be
appreciated. Cheers T87
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246250#246250
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