AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Mon 06/01/09


Total Messages Posted: 13



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:07 AM - Re: Stereo to Mono (gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com)
     2. 04:51 AM - Bendix 10-357210-1 Ignition switch ()
     3. 05:04 AM - Re: Engine mount as starter ground path (Tom Hanaway)
     4. 05:42 AM - Re: sky-tec starter wiring (Tim Shankland)
     5. 06:32 AM - Re: sky-tec starter wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     6. 08:05 AM - Re: sky-tec starter wiring (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
     7. 09:38 AM - Re: sky-tec starter wiring (Tim Shankland)
     8. 11:29 AM - Re: Lightweight Aux Battery? (sonex293)
     9. 07:24 PM - Re: Bendix 10-357210-1 Ignition switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    10. 07:53 PM - Re: Bendix 10-357210-1 Ignition switch (Thruster87)
    11. 09:13 PM - Re: Rotax 912ULS voltage . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    12. 11:02 PM - Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
    13. 11:11 PM - Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:07:06 AM PST US
    From: gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com
    Subject: Re: Stereo to Mono
    I would not use a stereo to mono jack to go FROM stereo to MONO. It really is made for going from mono to drive a stereo headphone, split to drive both L & R channels. It is not designed to combine stereo to mono. - Whats the big deal? Shorting L & R of an amp can cause damage, even-an iP od. If the "Walkman" has a mono switch than its OK, but-iPods do not have mono switc hes. - If you don't have a MP3 player (iPod) get one. Walkman are last decades new s. If you don't have an iPod you can get 100's of hours of music on them with play ti me of 6 hours per charge. They are also small and light weight. - There are some threads on how to properly combine stereo and ground issues in this forum. Just use the search engine. The easy way is with capacitor and resis tor, which you can wire behind the panel. You would use a stereo 1/8" phone jack and t hen go from stereo to mono with the isolation Cap and Resistor. - Cheers George - - >From: <bakerocb@cox.net> >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Stereo to Mono > >5/30/2009 >Hello Don, You wrote: "I want to install a plug in my panel to plug my >stereo Walkman into but my intercom (PM1000 II) is mono." >Here is one way to solve that problem -- - >http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102669 - >This adapter will put the output of a mono jack on your panel into both >sides of your stereo Walkman. - >Also take a look at some of the other adapters available. You may want to >put a normal airplane earphone sized jack on your instrument panel so that >either your Walkman (with an adapter) or an airplane earphone set (without >adapter) may be plugged in. > >======================== === >> >>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Stereo to Mono >>From: "Don McIntosh" <don@contractorsnorthwest.com> >> >>I want to install a plug in my panel to plug my stereo Walkman into but m y >>intercom (PM1000 II) is mono. Can I just splice the Right and Left leads together >>to go into the intercom? Also the intercom pins are labeled "HI" and "LOW ". >>Is this just the pin identification numbers? >>-------- >>Don McIntosh >>Kitfox Series 7 under construction >>Jabiru 3300 =0A=0A=0A


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:51:46 AM PST US
    From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: Bendix 10-357210-1 Ignition switch
    6/1/2009 Hello Thruster87, You wrote: "Bought a rotary ignition switch and would like to know ......" Another one of the advantages of using two toggle switches for this purpose instead of the unreliable rotary switch is to avoid fumbling around with the confusing wiring required. 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." ============================================== Time: 09:50:01 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bendix 10-357210-1 Ignition switch From: "Thruster87" <alania@optusnet.com.au> Bought a rotary ignition switch and would like to know which terminal goes to what on a Jabiru 3300 engine.Terminals marked R,L LR,BO,Batt ,S and G. L= left mag,R= right mag G= ground.Don't know where to connect the rest [Bendix 10-357210-1 Ignition switch key OFF,L,R,Both and twist to start] Any help would be appreciated. Cheers T87


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:04:37 AM PST US
    From: "Tom Hanaway" <tomhanaway@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Engine mount as starter ground path
    Bob, The basis of my design is Z-14. Dual Odyssey 680 batteries aft with cross-feed contactor (using one for startup and one for avionics during starting-then switching avionics over to primary battery after running-both batteries available if necessary for starting)) but only one alternator (option to add second alternator later depending on upcoming plane power product). Diode inline allows alternator feed to one or both batteries. Batteries really both need to be aft due to engine weight considerations. So... is grounding both batteries at a common point aft in metal plane a viable solution? I note that you made reference to working on some info specific to the RV-10. That would be great. Thanks, Tom _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 9:02 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Engine mount as starter ground path At 07:34 PM 5/28/2009, you wrote: Thanks Bob. Sorry to beat a dead horse but I need one more clarification. Your response mentions =13if battery near firewall=14. The batteries are actually both in the aft area. Can the battery be locally grounded to airframe at site of battery (metal frame craft) with B&C tab forest on firewall for grounds and engine ground? Or is best solution still to run a 2awg ground wire up to firewall and proceed with grounding to tab forest as above? Thanks, Tom _____ You say "both batteries". Which Z-figure are you crafting? Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:42:47 AM PST US
    From: Tim Shankland <tshankland@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: sky-tec starter wiring
    I have been following this thread with some interest as in been there done that. My Stratus Suburu setup required an automotive type switch, ignition, close for run. After a search for a compact simple switch I turned to one of my trusted sources, John Deere. Yes they had a compact ignition switch with starter function for a good price. Flash ahead a year or so, during my 40 hour test phase I was getting intermittent failures to engage especially when the engine was hot, you know you fly to the airport and then go to leave and it does want to start. Well I tracked it down to an excessive voltage drop across the switch. So off to the John Deere dealer for a new one. Talking to the dealer about my problem I found that they had the same problem on many of their tractors and John Deere had a fix. A nice tab mount relay suitable to mount on the starter that reduced the current load such that even the old switch works. I was able to make the entire change under the cowling by the starter and didn't have to get in to the instrument panel at all. John Deere come through again, after all that is where I get my oil filters. Tim Shankland thomas sargent wrote: > <sarg314@gmail.com> > > William: > I followed the link back to sky-tec (yet again) and this time I > found what I was looking for. Thanks for making me look again. > Seems my current wiring set-up matches their "certified" diagram, tht > is, the diagram for planes with a starter contactor. > > On May 31, 2009, at 9:40 AM, William Gill wrote: > >> <wgill10@comcast.net > >> >> Try: http://www.skytecair.com/Wiring_Diag.htm >> > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:32:00 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: sky-tec starter wiring
    At 07:40 AM 6/1/2009, you wrote: <tshankland@sbcglobal.net> I have been following this thread with some interest as in been there done that. My Stratus Suburu setup required an automotive type switch, ignition, close for run. After a search for a compact simple switch I turned to one of my trusted sources, John Deere. Yes they had a compact ignition switch with starter function for a good price. Flash ahead a year or so, during my 40 hour test phase I was getting intermittent failures to engage especially when the engine was hot, you know you fly to the airport and then go to leave and it does want to start. Well I tracked it down to an excessive voltage drop across the switch. So off to the John Deere dealer for a new one. Talking to the dealer about my problem I found that they had the same problem on many of their tractors and John Deere had a fix. A nice tab mount relay suitable to mount on the starter that reduced the current load such that even the old switch works. <snip> My first encounter with the extra-ordinary demands of the modern two-step starter engagement solenoids was on one of my employees cars at Vidimation about 17 years ago. It was a Japanese car as I recall . . . it was experiencing intermittent responses to twisting the key switch to the START position. He pulled the switch in our shop and we discovered bare brass, sliding (read low pressure, slow moving) contacts for the start function were all burned up. The car had about 60K miles on it. A new switch fixed the problem . . . no doubt for perhaps another 60K miles? I'd didn't take time to dissect the physics behind the phenomenon then. But it looks like the "boost" relay fix has occurred to more than one individual seeking an alternative recipe for success. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:05:52 AM PST US
    From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
    Subject: sky-tec starter wiring
    This brings up an issue that has been beaten around a lot...Especially by myself in the past. On your Stratus you should have two ignition systems and I dearly hope you are not running the feed for both ignitions through that single key switch because the key switch is a single point of faiure. The two ignitions should be treated as totally separate entities, that means a separate fused circuit, separate swicthing and wiring..I.e no single component failing should stop the engine running. I know Cessna's use a separate two postion switch but the get away this because the switch is a fail safe device..i.e if continuity stops the engine continues to run...But even then I avoided this route on my current airplane. Cheers Frank Stratus 601 zenair RV7a -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 6:30 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: sky-tec starter wiring --> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> At 07:40 AM 6/1/2009, you wrote: <tshankland@sbcglobal.net> I have been following this thread with some interest as in been there


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:38:09 AM PST US
    From: Tim Shankland <tshankland@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: sky-tec starter wiring
    Frank, My electrical system consists of two batteries and two independent buses, A & B. All power connections are through center off single pole double throw switches. Thus I can run any part of my system on either bus of my choosing or all on one bus. The primary ignition circuit, which feeds the ignition switch goes through one of these switches, normally set to bus A. The secondary ignition, fuel pump and starter are all fed by single rocker switches. By the way I have a guard over the primary ignition rocker switch so as not to inadvertently turn if off during some switching. This allows me to start my plane like a car, turn on Bus A turn the key and your running. It also allows me to separate noisy devices like strobes on one bus and the radio on the other. I also have a relay that connects both batteries for starting. Tim Shankland Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: > >This brings up an issue that has been beaten around a lot...Especially by myself in the past. > >On your Stratus you should have two ignition systems and I dearly hope you are not running the feed for both ignitions through that single key switch because the key switch is a single point of faiure. > >The two ignitions should be treated as totally separate entities, that means a separate fused circuit, separate swicthing and wiring..I.e no single component failing should stop the engine running. > >I know Cessna's use a separate two postion switch but the get away this because the switch is a fail safe device..i.e if continuity stops the engine continues to run...But even then I avoided this route on my current airplane. > >Cheers > >Frank >Stratus 601 zenair >RV7a > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III >Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 6:30 AM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: sky-tec starter wiring > >--> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > >At 07:40 AM 6/1/2009, you wrote: ><tshankland@sbcglobal.net> > >I have been following this thread with some interest as in been there > > > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 11:29:44 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Lightweight Aux Battery?
    From: "sonex293" <sonex293@gmail.com>
    Bob, This will be on an existing Jabiru 3300 installation using the Z-20 wiring . -- Michael Crowder Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246319#246319


    Message 9


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    Time: 07:24:52 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Bendix 10-357210-1 Ignition switch
    At 11:47 PM 5/31/2009, you wrote: > >Bought a rotary ignition switch and would like to know which >terminal goes to what on a Jabiru 3300 engine.Terminals marked R,L >LR,BO,Batt ,S and G. L= left mag,R= right mag G= ground.Don't know >where to connect the rest [Bendix 10-357210-1 Ignition switch key >OFF,L,R,Both and twist to start] Any help would be appreciated. Cheers T87 Unless you have a shower-of-sparks ignition system, you don't need BO. If the engine doesn't require starting on one ignition only, you don't use the LR terminal either. See Figure Z-26 at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z26K_27K.pdf Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 10


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    Time: 07:53:07 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Bendix 10-357210-1 Ignition switch
    From: "Thruster87" <alania@optusnet.com.au>
    nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote: > At 11:47 PM 5/31/2009, you wrote: > > > > > > > Bought a rotary ignition switch and would like to know which > > terminal goes to what on a Jabiru 3300 engine.Terminals marked R,L > > LR,BO,Batt ,S and G. L= left mag,R= right mag G= ground.Don't know > > where to connect the rest [Bendix 10-357210-1 Ignition switch key > > OFF,L,R,Both and twist to start] Any help would be appreciated. Cheers T87 > > Unless you have a shower-of-sparks ignition system, > > > > you don't need BO. If the engine doesn't require > starting on one ignition only, you don't use the LR > terminal either. > > > See Figure Z-26 at: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z26K_27K.pdf > > > > Bob . . . > > ----------------------------------------) > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > ---------------------------------------- Much appreciated Cheers T87 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246407#246407


    Message 11


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    Time: 09:13:48 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Rotax 912ULS voltage . . .
    At 02:18 PM 5/31/2009, you wrote: ><lgold@quantum-associates.com> > >Bob, >Here is another twist in the strange continuing low voltage problem saga in >my Rotax 912 / Figure Z16-designed electrical system. >I purchased and installed a new Rotax voltage regulator (called a >regulator/rectifier by Rotax), which provided identical low voltage results. >Just as I was getting ready to return the "defective" regulator I accidently >switched on the endurance bus and, what do you know, the voltage shot up >from 12.9V to 13.8V (as measured through my Dynon glass cockpit and Lowrance >GPS instruments). While still a little low, I can certainly live with 13.8V >under normal working load since this should adequately charge my battery. >Ok, so now it looks like there is something wrong in the Z16 electrical >configuration. I'd rather not leave my endurance buss on all the time >(although I don't think this would hurt anything??) so I would like to fix >the issue. I suspect the problem is associated with the diode that attaches >the two busses shown under "Note 12" on your Z16 diagram. Do you concur? Do >you think I should change this diode, do further testing, or should I look >elsewhere for the problem? The my diode came with a heatsink from B&C. If I >need a new one, and you make them, I need one ASAP since I plan a 1000-mile >trip next weekend. Nothing needs "fixing". For the purposes of knowing your alternator's setpoint voltage, you're measuring the system voltage at the wrong place. Yes, the e-bus is KNOWN to run about 0.7 volts lower than the main bus and it doesn't matter. When a voltmeter is fed from the E-bus, it becomes something of an electrical fuel gage for battery-only operations. When you're down to 11.0 volts battery only, the battery is 95% used up. If you want to use this voltmeter to check the main bus . . . then you momentarily close the alternate feed switch as you've discovered. 13.8 is still pretty low for charging a battery but if you're going on a trip and will spend hours per flight cycle at cruise RPM then 13.8 will get you by. The system is working as designed. You can either mentally add the 0.7 volts of known diode-drop or do your low voltage and/or voltage display sensing from the main bus. Any LV Warning should ALWAYS be driven by the main bus when such systems are installed. I'd say you are good to go on your trip. Bob . . .


    Message 12


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    Time: 11:02:05 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
    Dear Listers, Please read over the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete AeroElectric-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains AeroElectric-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. 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The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the AeroElectric-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all AeroElectric-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the AeroElectric-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * AeroElectric-List.FAQ - Latest version of the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?AeroElectric ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. AeroElectric-List Policy Statement The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive


    Message 13


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    Time: 11:11:17 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
    Dear Listers, Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. AeroElectric-List Policy Statement The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive




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