---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/09/09: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:06 AM - Z12 questions (Bob Barrow) 2. 06:45 AM - Re: xponder ant mounting (Chris Stone) 3. 08:14 AM - Re: Z12 questions (rckol) 4. 08:24 AM - Ground planes (John F. Herminghaus) 5. 09:07 AM - RF interference (Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com) 6. 01:19 PM - Re: Re: Z12 questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 01:21 PM - Re: Z12 questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 02:25 PM - Canopy Switch () 9. 02:53 PM - Re: Canopy Switch (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 10. 03:39 PM - Re: Ground planes (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 03:49 PM - Re: RF interference (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 03:51 PM - Re: xponder ant mounting (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 05:51 PM - problem in Bob's Wigwag.pdf circuit? (Dave Gribble) 14. 06:51 PM - Re: Canopy Switch () 15. 07:53 PM - Re: Canopy Switch (Tim Andres) 16. 08:18 PM - Re: Canopy Switch (Ian) 17. 08:25 PM - Burning up Van's Engine Instruments because? (JakeTheBosun) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:33 AM PST US From: Bob Barrow Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z12 questions I already have a B&C 40 amp alternator and a B&C SD20 aux alternator instal led on my Lycoming. I also have 2 B&C LR3 regulators. Now I'm contemplatin g swapping one of the LR3 regs for a SB-1 and using architecture Z12. I'm p lanning on an IFR ship for long distance international flights. These are my questions: 1. Is the battery contactor on Z12 a single point of failure that will take out both of my alternators and leave me with only battery power. If so is there a mod to Z12 that gets around this. 2. Under certain extreme power use configurations I may marginally exceed t he capacity of the 40 amp main alternator. If the capacity of the 40 amp al ternator is exceeded and the bus voltage sags will the 20 amp aux alternato r switch on automatically (when regulated by the SB-1 regulator) and run co ncurrently with the 40 amp main alternator to effectively provide 60 amps o f useable current. Regards Bob Barrow RV7A _________________________________________________________________ View photos of singles in your area Click Here http://dating.ninemsn.com.au/search/search.aspx?exec=go&tp=q&gc=2&tr =1&lage=18&uage=55&cl=14&sl=0&dist=50&po=1&do=2&trackingid =1046138&r2s=1&_t=773166090&_r=WLM_EndText ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:23 AM PST US From: Chris Stone Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: xponder ant mounting Bob et al... While on the subject of xponder antennae... I am helping with wiring of a Kitfox (rag & tube) and we need to mount a xponder antenna. IIRC the antenna requires a ground plane 12 inches in diameter. Is this correct? The xponder frequencys are 1030 and 1090Mhz which is a wavelength of about 291mm and 275mm or about 12 and 11 inches. I would think I would tune for the lower freq as the higher would be inclusive. A 12 inch diameter aluminum plate with the antenna monted in the center is my plan... please feel free to educate me further! Thanks... Chris Stone Newberg, OR Rv's 'n' Kitfox's -----Original Message----- >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >Sent: Jun 8, 2009 10:26 AM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: xponder ant mounting > > >At 01:55 PM 6/6/2009, you wrote: >> >>Since I already installed a reinforcement plate into the floor of my >>tailcone to mount my ground power receptacle, is there any reason >>that I can't mount my transponder antenna into the same plate an >>inch or two from the piper plug receptacle? >> >>Thanks in advance. I am loathe to drill holes into my skin without >>checking first. > > I see no structural problems with it . . . > > One usually mounts the xponder antenna > on the belly centerline. I presume your > ground power jack structure is off to one > side. I doubt that an off-center antenna > location is any big deal. > > > Bob . . . > > --------------------------------------- > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > --------------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:25 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z12 questions From: "rckol" I would consider keeping the LR3 and use Z-14. It would address both of your concerns. You would need another battery though. -------- rck Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247431#247431 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:14 AM PST US From: "John F. Herminghaus" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ground planes What is the acceptable/recommended resistance from a transponder antenna to its ground plane. Have built your low ohm meter, so can measure in milliohms. Regards, John Herminghaus ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:07:20 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: RF interference From: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com In my last post I said: "This all seems strange to me as there are man y RVs with similar equipment(SL-40 comm, GRT EFIS/EIS)and wiring(Z-13/8)t hat have my problem." Meant to say "....that DONT have my problem". Makes more sense that way eh? Got a private email from a List follower inquiring about the 'device' referenced in my earlier post - it allows use of a handheld comm on the main ships antenna for emergency use. Bob reviewed this product some t ime ago and seemed to think it was satisfactory. Here is a link to it http://www.edmo.com/index.php?module=products&func=display&prod_id= 19280&cat_id You will likely want to also get a patch cord to allow you to hook up y our headset to the handheld to make it easier to hear/transmit erich ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:19:50 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z12 questions At 10:11 AM 6/9/2009, you wrote: > >I would consider keeping the LR3 and use Z-14. It would address >both of your concerns. You would need another battery though. > >-------- >rck Good answer. Z12 is a dual alternator enhancement of Z12 that emulates the SD20 standby alternator offered as STC on LOTS of TC aircraft. I'll suggest that Z-13/8 is the elegant solution for cost/weight/performance/reliability/simplicity. If you're going to hang an SD20 on a fresh design, then Z-14 is the better if not a bit heavier choice. You can go to the smallest of engine cranking batteries because of Z-14's ability to parallel them during cranking. Alternatively, battery contactor failure is pretty rare . . . and you have the e-bus alternate feed to back it up. You could consider a premium low-power contactor and probably be just fine with Z-12 and and SD-20/LR3 combination. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:21:23 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z12 questions At 08:00 AM 6/9/2009, you wrote: >I already have a B&C 40 amp alternator and a B&C SD20 aux alternator >installed on my Lycoming. I also have 2 B&C LR3 regulators. Now I'm >contemplating swapping one of the LR3 regs for a SB-1 and using >architecture Z12. I'm planning on an IFR ship for long distance >international flights. > >These are my questions: > >1. Is the battery contactor on Z12 a single point of failure that >will take out both of my alternators and leave me with only battery >power. If so is there a mod to Z12 that gets around this. > >2. Under certain extreme power use configurations I may marginally >exceed the capacity of the 40 amp main alternator. If the capacity >of the 40 amp alternator is exceeded and the bus voltage sags will >the 20 amp aux alternator switch on automatically (when regulated by >the SB-1 regulator) and run concurrently with the 40 amp main >alternator to effectively provide 60 amps of useable current. Yes, you can run both alternators together but getting them to share proportionately is difficult without special paralleling regulators. What situation demands more than 40A? Alternatively, consider Z-14 and split the loads between the two alternators. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:25:08 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Canopy Switch From: I want to add a canopy (open) warning switch to my Lanciar Legacy. I've got a Dynon 180 which handles all the high tech stuff but I need the appropriate switch and vendor information from which to source it. Naturally the switch should be low profile or recessed and perhaps be adjustable in depth such that it could be adjusted to the canopy tightness. The premise of the Dynon is to alert via a contact light of a normally closed or normally open item. Basically if it's grounded, it closes the switch and allows the turns the light green. If you have completed such an installation I'd be glad to hear of what switch you used and related frustrations if any. Thanks in advance, Glenn ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:53:32 PM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Canopy Switch Personally I would use a buzzer from Radio shack instead of a light so it works in bright sunlight. Don't know if the Dynon will drive a buzzer or not but you might just avoid the Dynon altogether and run the buzzer through the switch. I'm assuming here you want a warning that you left your master on?...if so you could wire the switch such the ground path goes thru the master switch. If you just want a canopy open switch (not sure what value it really has?) then you can just wire a simple circuit thru the buzzer or light your choice. Either way there is not much point in going through the Dynon. Frank RV7a D100 and Ems10 I want to add a canopy (open) warning switch to my Lanciar Legacy. I've got a Dynon 180 which handles all the high tech stuff but I need the appropriate switch and vendor information from which to source it. Naturally the switch should be low profile or recessed and perhaps be adjustable in depth such that it could be adjusted to the canopy tightness. The premise of the Dynon is to alert via a contact light of a normally closed or normally open item. Basically if it's grounded, it closes the switch and allows the turns the light green. If you have completed such an installation I'd be glad to hear of what switch you used and related frustrations if any. Thanks in advance, Glenn ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:39:37 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground planes At 10:23 AM 6/9/2009, you wrote: > > >What is the acceptable/recommended resistance from a transponder >antenna to its ground plane. Have built your low ohm meter, so can >measure in milliohms. If you pay attention to cleanliness and pressure on the mounting hardware surfaces that make contact . . . see: http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/Comm_Antenna_Installation.gif This shows a comm antenna with a base attached with screws. If you're mounting a blade transponder antenna the same rules apply. If you're mounting one of these things . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/Transponder_1.jpg then all of the "grounding" happens under the nut (not the best place but the outside flange holds the gasket). The internal tooth lockwasher under the nut "bites" into the ship's inner skin for ground. In any case, it's unlikely that you'll measure anything significant with the low-resistance ohmmeter. A bonding meter measures in fractions of micro-ohms. Bottom line is that 99.999% of all antennas installed with reasonable care for cleanliness and pressure at the critical joints are going to be just fine. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:49:54 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RF interference At 10:57 AM 6/9/2009, you wrote: >In my last post I said: "This all seems strange to me as there are >many RVs with similar equipment(SL-40 comm, GRT EFIS/EIS)and wiring(Z-13/8)that >have my problem." Meant to say "....that DONT have my >problem". Makes more sense that way eh? > >Got a private email from a List follower inquiring about the >'device' referenced in my earlier post - it allows use of a handheld >comm on the main ships antenna for emergency use. Bob reviewed this >product some time ago and seemed to think it was satisfactory. Here >is a link to it > >http://www.edmo.com/index.php?module=products&func=display&prod_id=19280&cat_id > >You will likely want to also get a patch cord to allow you to hook >up your headset to the handheld to make it easier to hear/transmit I really don't like those things . . . they use a miniature phone jack that looks like #2 in the view below. Emacs! It features a normally closed switch strut to provide "feed through" of antenna connection to the panel mounted comm. This "switch" is low pressure, exposed to atmosphere and not terribly reliable. If the thing gives you problems, the intermittent will be with the panel mounted radio. I would prefer/recommend breaking into a coil bit of slack in your regular comm antenna coax. You shouldn't have to do this very often which offsets the inconvenience. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:58 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: xponder ant mounting At 08:40 AM 6/9/2009, you wrote: Bob et al... While on the subject of xponder antennae... I am helping with wiring of a Kitfox (rag & tube) and we need to mount a xponder antenna. IIRC the antenna requires a ground plane 12 inches in diameter. Is this correct? The xponder frequencys are 1030 and 1090Mhz which is a wavelength of about 291mm and 275mm or about 12 and 11 inches. I would think I would tune for the lower freq as the higher would be inclusive. A 12 inch diameter aluminum plate with the antenna monted in the center is my plan... please feel free to educate me further! The "ideal" ground plane has a radius equal to the height of the antenna. I.e., about 2.6" for a transponder. Anything bigger, such as the 12" diameter is not a "tuned" ground plane in which case make it any size you wish. Anything bigger than the 2.6" radius is not going to significantly alter performance. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:51:54 PM PST US From: "Dave Gribble" Subject: AeroElectric-List: problem in Bob's Wigwag.pdf circuit? Hello - I am new to the list so please don't flame me for posting this. I am designing my landing lights around the circuit on page 4 of Bob's Wigwg.pdf. This is the circuit that uses the 4PDT switch, marked "4TL1-10 or equal" I just ordered my switch today. My design goal of this circuit is to have the switch function as OFF-WIGWAG-ON, with OFF in the bottom position. In completing my design, I noticed in the Honeywell datasheet for the 4TL1-10 switch (available at this link: http://www.datasheetarchive.com/4TL1-10-datasheet.html ) does not match the one in Bob's schematic. The problem is that for the -10 switch in the datasheet, there are two poles (pins 8 & 11) that are open in the center condition. The switch in Bob's circuit requires all poles to be active in all positions. After careful datasheet reading, I think that Bob's design will work with a 4TL1-12 switch. It is supposedly the same circuitry as a -50 (which looks right) and has no momentary positions. Can anyone confirm that I need to cancel my order for the -10 and get a -12 instead? I'm hoping to find out quickly to avoid buying the wrong switch. I did search the archive and found a single poster mentioning that the circuit didn't work... maybe this was why? Thanks for any info, dave ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:49 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Canopy Switch From: Frank, Thanks for your ideas. No, actually I want what I asked for, a canopy alert light, not a "I forgot the master" warning light. The Dynon has some great contact display features that allow one to connect gear down, canopy open type things. When I'm ready to launch I'm looking strait at the EFIS and should see a big red light. You are correct, the sun can be a factor, but in PA where I live, rarely so. The probability of forgetting the canopy on a sunny day in PA is probably much less than forgetting it on an overcast day. The buzzer is a great idea, but does one really want the buzzer in your ears anytime the master is on and you are running around in sweat with the canopy in tilt position? I will stick to trying to find the right switch for mounting on the canopy jam. Glenn ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Sent: Tue 6/9/2009 5:47 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Canopy Switch (Corvallis)" Personally I would use a buzzer from Radio shack instead of a light so it works in bright sunlight. Don't know if the Dynon will drive a buzzer or not but you might just avoid the Dynon altogether and run the buzzer through the switch. I'm assuming here you want a warning that you left your master on?...if so you could wire the switch such the ground path goes thru the master switch. If you just want a canopy open switch (not sure what value it really has?) then you can just wire a simple circuit thru the buzzer or light your choice. Either way there is not much point in going through the Dynon. Frank RV7a D100 and Ems10 I want to add a canopy (open) warning switch to my Lanciar Legacy. I've got a Dynon 180 which handles all the high tech stuff but I need the appropriate switch and vendor information from which to source it. Naturally the switch should be low profile or recessed and perhaps be adjustable in depth such that it could be adjusted to the canopy tightness. The premise of the Dynon is to alert via a contact light of a normally closed or normally open item. Basically if it's grounded, it closes the switch and allows the turns the light green. If you have completed such an installation I'd be glad to hear of what switch you used and related frustrations if any. Thanks in advance, Glenn ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:30 PM PST US From: "Tim Andres" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Canopy Switch Glenn, if you think the buzzer is a good idea but have the concern you mentioned, just install a second switch on the throttle. If the canopy is open and the throttle is opened more than enough for taxi..you get the idea. Tim Andres _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of longg@pjm.com Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 6:50 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Canopy Switch Frank, Thanks for your ideas. No, actually I want what I asked for, a canopy alert light, not a "I forgot the master" warning light. The Dynon has some great contact display features that allow one to connect gear down, canopy open type things. When I'm ready to launch I'm looking strait at the EFIS and should see a big red light. You are correct, the sun can be a factor, but in PA where I live, rarely so. The probability of forgetting the canopy on a sunny day in PA is probably much less than forgetting it on an overcast day. The buzzer is a great idea, but does one really want the buzzer in your ears anytime the master is on and you are running around in sweat with the canopy in tilt position? I will stick to trying to find the right switch for mounting on the canopy jam. Glenn _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Sent: Tue 6/9/2009 5:47 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Canopy Switch Personally I would use a buzzer from Radio shack instead of a light so it works in bright sunlight. Don't know if the Dynon will drive a buzzer or not but you might just avoid the Dynon altogether and run the buzzer through the switch. I'm assuming here you want a warning that you left your master on?...if so you could wire the switch such the ground path goes thru the master switch. If you just want a canopy open switch (not sure what value it really has?) then you can just wire a simple circuit thru the buzzer or light your choice. Either way there is not much point in going through the Dynon. Frank RV7a D100 and Ems10 I want to add a canopy (open) warning switch to my Lanciar Legacy. I've got a Dynon 180 which handles all the high tech stuff but I need the appropriate switch and vendor information from which to source it. Naturally the switch should be low profile or recessed and perhaps be adjustable in depth such that it could be adjusted to the canopy tightness. The premise of the Dynon is to alert via a contact light of a normally closed or normally open item. Basically if it's grounded, it closes the switch and allows the turns the light green. If you have completed such an installation I'd be glad to hear of what switch you used and related frustrations if any. Thanks in ====================== href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.Same great content also available via the Web href="https://exc03wwp.corp.ds.pjm.com/f5-w-687474703a2f2f666f72756d732p; - List Contribution Web bsp; -Matt Dralle, List href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c==== =========== 05:53:00 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:08 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Canopy Switch From: Ian Simple switches that can be either normally open or normally closed are those that are used on housing security systems. GE makes a line of pressure operated switches like that, that fit into window frames. An appropriate choice might depend on the area where you intend to mount the switch, and the how small it needs to be. Ian Brown Bromont Quebec On Tue, 2009-06-09 at 21:50 -0400, longg@pjm.com wrote: > Frank, > > Thanks for your ideas. No, actually I want what I asked for, a canopy > alert light, not a "I forgot the master" warning light. The Dynon has > some great contact display features that allow one to connect gear > down, canopy open type things. When I'm ready to launch I'm looking > strait at the EFIS and should see a big red light. You are correct, > the sun can be a factor, but in PA where I live, rarely so. The > probability of forgetting the canopy on a sunny day in PA is probably > much less than forgetting it on an overcast day. > > The buzzer is a great idea, but does one really want the buzzer in > your ears anytime the master is on and you are running around > in sweat with the canopy in tilt position? > > I will stick to trying to find the right switch for mounting on the > canopy jam. > > > Glenn > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Hinde, > Frank George (Corvallis) > Sent: Tue 6/9/2009 5:47 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Canopy Switch > > > (Corvallis)" > > Personally I would use a buzzer from Radio shack instead of a light so > it works in bright sunlight. > > Don't know if the Dynon will drive a buzzer or not but you might just > avoid the Dynon altogether and run the buzzer through the switch. > > I'm assuming here you want a warning that you left your master > on?...if so you could wire the switch such the ground path goes thru > the master switch. > > If you just want a canopy open switch (not sure what value it really > has?) then you can just wire a simple circuit thru the buzzer or light > your choice. > > Either way there is not much point in going through the Dynon. > > Frank > RV7a D100 and Ems10 > > I want to add a canopy (open) warning switch to my Lanciar Legacy. > I've got a Dynon 180 which handles all the high tech stuff but I need > the appropriate switch and vendor information from which to source it. > Naturally the switch should be low profile or recessed and perhaps be > adjustable in depth such that it could be adjusted to the canopy > tightness. > > The premise of the Dynon is to alert via a contact light of a normally > closed or normally open item. Basically if it's grounded, it closes > the switch and allows the turns the light green. > > If you have completed such an installation I'd be glad to hear of what > switch you used and related frustrations if any. > > > Thanks in ====================== > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.Same great content also available via the Web href="https://exc03wwp.corp.ds.pjm.com/f5-w-687474703a2f2f666f72756d732p; - List Contribution Web bsp; -Matt Dralle, List href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c================ > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:34 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Burning up Van's Engine Instruments because? From: "JakeTheBosun" Saturday was hot and busy flying kids for COPA fun event. After 3 hours I started to taxi back and smelled smoke. On examination my Van's voltmeter melted inside the electronics, on the circuit board, between the power and the ground stud, had burned up melting the case. Today checked the voltage and found 12 volts (not running) and 14.2 volts (running) at the main bus that feeds instruments. Then found that the Oil Temp gauge was hot at same place and melting, and Manifold Pressure is very warm to touch. I searched and found no obvious loose grounds. Any suggestions about what would cause this? Where to look next? Sure appreciate any advice, expertice is distant here in Yukon. -------- Jake Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247505#247505 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.