AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sun 06/28/09


Total Messages Posted: 33



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:08 AM - Re: Battery Proximity and mounting ()
     2. 05:15 AM - Splicing at D-subs. (Sam Hoskins)
     3. 05:23 AM - Splicing at D-subs. (Sam Hoskins)
     4. 05:39 AM - Splicing at D-subs. (Sam Hoskins)
     5. 06:32 AM - Re: Splicing of 2 or 3 conductor shielded cable (Angier M. Ames)
     6. 06:45 AM - Re: Splicing at D-subs. (Charlie England)
     7. 06:46 AM - Re: Splicing at D-subs. (Bill Bradburry)
     8. 07:15 AM - Complex aircraft NTSB report  ()
     9. 07:15 AM - Re: Splicing at D-subs. (Sam Hoskins)
    10. 08:05 AM - Re: Complex aircraft NTSB report  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    11. 08:19 AM - Re: Splicing at D-subs. (Bob McCallum)
    12. 08:28 AM - Re: Splicing at D-subs. (Bill Bradburry)
    13. 08:28 AM - Re: Splicing at D-subs. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    14. 08:33 AM - Re: Splicing at D-subs. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    15. 08:35 AM - Re: Complex aircraft NTSB report  (Bob Collins)
    16. 08:35 AM - Re: Battery Proximity and mounting (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    17. 09:00 AM - Re: Splicing at D-subs. (Ron Quillin)
    18. 09:00 AM - Re: Re: Splicing of 2 or 3 conductor shielded cable (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    19. 09:10 AM - Re: Splicing at D-subs. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    20. 09:47 AM - NASA docs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    21. 09:52 AM - Re: Splicing at D-subs. (Sam Hoskins)
    22. 10:12 AM - First Flight (Speedy11@aol.com)
    23. 10:20 AM - Re: Battery Proximity and mounting (Speedy11@aol.com)
    24. 10:51 AM - Re: First Flight (Franz Fux)
    25. 10:51 AM - Re: NASA docs (Ron Quillin)
    26. 11:27 AM - Re: First Flight (Bret Smith)
    27. 11:50 AM - TCW product update: SmartStart (Bob-tcw)
    28. 12:57 PM - Re: NASA docs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    29. 01:01 PM - Re: First Flight (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    30. 01:41 PM - Internally Regulated Alternator Control (Gordon Smith)
    31. 02:27 PM - Re: First Flight (Brooke Wolf)
    32. 04:40 PM - Re: Internally Regulated Alternator Control (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    33. 04:40 PM - Re: First Flight (MLWynn@aol.com)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:08:49 AM PST US
    From: <Flagstone@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Battery Proximity and mounting
    To All: I recently made statements in a post under this subject that was critical of Bob's responsiveness to an issue. The statements were based on my recollections of posts over the past two years. Bob was kind enought to continue the discussion with me off-group. In preparation for that discussion, I reveiwed my posts on the issue and could not find support for the statements I made. I would like to retract those statements and make an appology to Bob and the group for making them. Mark


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:15:42 AM PST US
    Subject: Splicing at D-subs.
    From: Sam Hoskins <shoskins@mchsi.com>
    I didn't hear back on this one, so here it is again: Bob - do you have a comic book about splicing a second 20 AWG wire into the wire(s) heading into a D-sub connector? I looked through the articles at http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html, but didn't find exactly what I was trying to accomplish. I have a 37 pin connector which is plugged into a device. I want to tap into 5 of those wires to connect to another gizmo, and figured you already have a razzle-dazzle way to accomplish it. Thanks. Sam Hoskins Murphysboro, IL www.samhoskins.blogspot.com


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:23:26 AM PST US
    Subject: Splicing at D-subs.
    From: Sam Hoskins <shoskins@mchsi.com>
    I didn't hear back on this one, so here it is again: Bob - do you have a comic book about splicing a second 20 AWG wire into the wire(s) heading into a D-sub connector? I looked through the articles at http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html, but didn't find exactly what I was trying to accomplish. I have a 37 pin connector which is plugged into a device. I want to tap into 5 of those wires to connect to another gizmo, and figured you already have a razzle-dazzle way to accomplish it. Thanks. Sam Hoskins Murphysboro, IL www.samhoskins.blogspot.com


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:39:28 AM PST US
    Subject: Splicing at D-subs.
    From: Sam Hoskins <shoskins@mchsi.com>
    I didn't hear back on this one, so here it is again: Bob - do you have a comic book about splicing a second 20 AWG wire into the wire(s) heading into a D-sub connector? I looked through the articles at http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html, but didn't find exactly what I was trying to accomplish. I have a 37 pin connector which is plugged into a device. I want to tap into 5 of those wires to connect to another gizmo, and figured you already have a razzle-dazzle way to accomplish it. Thanks. Sam Hoskins Murphysboro, IL www.samhoskins.blogspot.com


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:32:17 AM PST US
    From: "Angier M. Ames" <N4ZQ@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Splicing of 2 or 3 conductor shielded cable
    I am relocating the comm and mic jacks in my Lancair to a position behind the pilot/co-pilot seatback and so the comm and mic cables need to be lengthened. Any suggestions here for what would be the best method for splicing additional length to these cables and also maintaining the integrity of the shields? Thanks


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:45:17 AM PST US
    From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Splicing at D-subs.
    Sam Hoskins wrote: > I didn't hear back on this one, so here it is again: > > Bob - do you have a comic book about splicing a second 20 AWG wire > into the > wire(s) heading into a D-sub connector? I looked through the articles at > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html, but didn't find exactly what I > was trying to accomplish. > > I have a 37 pin connector which is plugged into a device. I want to tap > into 5 of those wires to connect to another gizmo, and figured you already > have a razzle-dazzle way to accomplish it. > > Thanks. > > Sam Hoskins > Murphysboro, IL > > www.samhoskins.blogspot.com <http://www.samhoskins.blogspot.com> Hi Sam, There's a comic book somewhere on the aeroelectric site showing how to feed power *in* to multiple pins on a subD connector. You can just reverse the technique to feed multiple outs. Bring one lead out of the subD for a few inches. At that point, use an in-line (butt) splice with your subD lead in one end and your 2 destination leads in the other. Of course, this assumes that you have researched the signal quality implications of splitting the signals. Charlie


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:46:02 AM PST US
    From: "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Splicing at D-subs.
    Sam, Is this what you were looking for? http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/pigtail/pigtail.html Bill B _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Hoskins Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 8:11 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Splicing at D-subs. I didn't hear back on this one, so here it is again: Bob - do you have a comic book about splicing a second 20 AWG wire into the wire(s) heading into a D-sub connector? I looked through the articles at http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html, but didn't find exactly what I was trying to accomplish. I have a 37 pin connector which is plugged into a device. I want to tap into 5 of those wires to connect to another gizmo, and figured you already have a razzle-dazzle way to accomplish it. Thanks. Sam Hoskins Murphysboro, IL <http://www.samhoskins.blogspot.com> www.samhoskins.blogspot.com


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:15:14 AM PST US
    From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: Complex aircraft NTSB report
    6/28/2009 The NTSB Report NYC08FA023 contains the following statement: "14 CFR Part 21.93 requires that any major changes that are made to an airplane require inspection by the FAA prior to further flight." This statement does not apply to the amateur built experimental airplane being reported upon in this accident report. Instead it applies to aircraft with changes in type design. Actions required when changes are made to an amateur built experimental aircraft are described in the Operating Limitations for that specific aircraft. 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge."


    Message 9


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    Time: 07:15:14 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Splicing at D-subs.
    From: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@gmail.com>
    No - I saw that one and it's for shields. I was looking for something similar for single conductor wire. It's no big deal. I was just looking for one of Bob's elegant soultions. Thanks. Sam On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>wrote: > Sam, > > Is this what you were looking for? > > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/pigtail/pigtail.html > > > Bill B > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam Hoskins > *Sent:* Sunday, June 28, 2009 8:11 AM > *To:* AeroElectric-List@matronics.com > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Splicing at D-subs. > > I didn't hear back on this one, so here it is again: > > Bob - do you have a comic book about splicing a second 20 AWG wire into the > wire(s) heading into a D-sub connector? I looked through the articles at > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html, but didn't find exactly what I > was trying to accomplish. > > I have a 37 pin connector which is plugged into a device. I want to tap > into 5 of those wires to connect to another gizmo, and figured you already > have a razzle-dazzle way to accomplish it. > > Thanks. > > Sam Hoskins > Murphysboro, IL > > www.samhoskins.blogspot.com > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > * > > * > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 08:05:19 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Complex aircraft NTSB report
    At 09:07 AM 6/28/2009, you wrote: 6/28/2009 The NTSB Report NYC08FA023 contains the following statement: "14 CFR Part 21.93 requires that any major changes that are made to an airplane require inspection by the FAA prior to further flight." This statement does not apply to the amateur built experimental airplane being reported upon in this accident report. Instead it applies to aircraft with changes in type design. Actions required when changes are made to an amateur built experimental aircraft are described in the Operating Limitations for that specific aircraft. Thanks for responding to this Bob. It rang some alarm bells when I first read it but had not yet taken time to research it. I would offer to add the following: Just because some legacy or regulatory mandate "does not apply" to the OBAM aircraft endeavor does not automatically tag it useless or unworthy of consideration. I have many moons of experience working inside the rubber padded room that is bounded by lots of rules . . . some of which were crafted and later administered by folks who didn't understand the discipline in which we work. At the same time, MOST of the rules stand on foundations crafted of simple-ideas of physics, logic and/or historical experience. In the case of 21.93, when one takes hammer and saw to the airplane, it doesn't hurt and may be very helpful to seek the advice of any who can offer mentorship. Clearly, the subject of this unhappy thread did not avail himself of the volumes of data and guidance freely offered from hundred of sources. It was his choice, decision and risk. Fortunately, the other seats were un occupied when the risks tagged him on the shoulder. If the community of OBAM aircraft builders can claim any common fraternal goal, it should go much deeper than the sharing goggles, helmet and white scarf experiences of flying. It includes the task of RISK REDUCTION. Our machines are beautiful, exciting, and offer a potential for great utility. But they are exceedingly unforgiving of those who do not embrace a necessity of responsible conduct supported by skill and understanding. Fly comfortably my friends . . . Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------


    Message 11


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    Time: 08:19:35 AM PST US
    From: "Bob McCallum" <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
    Subject: Splicing at D-subs.
    Sam; Same process works. Just bring an inch or so of the wire from the pin out of the connector, splice on your two leads, heat shrink the assembly, just as shown in this "comic book" for shields and carry on. The second wire instead of looping back into the connector as shown here, simply goes to your second device. Either the solder technique or the solder sleeve method are neat and compact. Bob McC _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Hoskins Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 10:03 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Splicing at D-subs. No - I saw that one and it's for shields. I was looking for something similar for single conductor wire. It's no big deal. I was just looking for one of Bob's elegant soultions. Thanks. Sam On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote: Sam, Is this what you were looking for? http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/pigtail/pigtail.html Bill B _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Hoskins Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 8:11 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Splicing at D-subs. I didn't hear back on this one, so here it is again: Bob - do you have a comic book about splicing a second 20 AWG wire into the wire(s) heading into a D-sub connector? I looked through the articles at http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html, but didn't find exactly what I was trying to accomplish. I have a 37 pin connector which is plugged into a device. I want to tap into 5 of those wires to connect to another gizmo, and figured you already have a razzle-dazzle way to accomplish it. Thanks. Sam Hoskins Murphysboro, IL <http://www.samhoskins.blogspot.com> www.samhoskins.blogspot.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List a>http://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 12


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    Time: 08:28:19 AM PST US
    From: "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Splicing at D-subs.
    Sam, While I was looking I also found the one that Charlie is talking about here. You just use 6" pigtails and crimp them together as Charlie describes. Bill B -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:38 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Splicing at D-subs. --> <ceengland@bellsouth.net> Sam Hoskins wrote: > I didn't hear back on this one, so here it is again: > > Bob - do you have a comic book about splicing a second 20 AWG wire > into the > wire(s) heading into a D-sub connector? I looked through the articles > at http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html, but didn't find exactly > what I was trying to accomplish. > > I have a 37 pin connector which is plugged into a device. I want to > tap into 5 of those wires to connect to another gizmo, and figured you > already have a razzle-dazzle way to accomplish it. > > Thanks. > > Sam Hoskins > Murphysboro, IL > > www.samhoskins.blogspot.com <http://www.samhoskins.blogspot.com> Hi Sam, There's a comic book somewhere on the aeroelectric site showing how to feed power *in* to multiple pins on a subD connector. You can just reverse the technique to feed multiple outs. Bring one lead out of the subD for a few inches. At that point, use an in-line (butt) splice with your subD lead in one end and your 2 destination leads in the other. Of course, this assumes that you have researched the signal quality implications of splitting the signals. Charlie


    Message 13


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    Time: 08:28:25 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Splicing at D-subs.
    At 09:03 AM 6/28/2009, you wrote: >No - I saw that one and it's for shields. I was looking for >something similar for single conductor wire. > >It's no big deal. I was just looking for one of Bob's elegant soultions. Sorry for the long delay in responding . . . I wish there were an "elegant" solution. Obviously the D-Sub pin is limited to the insertion of but a single 20AWG wire. The task is to tap into a few conductors in a manner that does not result in the wire bundle taking on that "rabbit satisfied snake" appearance. The lowest volume approach I can deduce is to bare a short segment (1/4 to 3/8 inch) of strands on wire to be tapped a couple of inches from the end . . . Emacs! Wrap the branch strands around the open gap, solder and heat shrink. Then install the d-sub pin. Emacs! You probably want to have the spice occur outside the back-shell of the connector. Stagger their positions so that they don't "bulk up" a lump in one place on the harness. Are you committed to 20AWG wire throughout? 22AWG does this hat-dance a little better. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------


    Message 14


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    Time: 08:33:35 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Splicing at D-subs.
    There's a comic book somewhere on the aeroelectric site showing how to feed power *in* to multiple pins on a subD connector. You can just reverse the technique to feed multiple outs. Bring one lead out of the subD for a few inches. At that point, use an in-line (butt) splice with your subD lead in one end and your 2 destination leads in the other. Of course, this assumes that you have researched the signal quality implications of splitting the signals. Charlie --------------------- I think you're referring to the suggestion for paralleling pins in a d-sub to achieve higher current ratings for conductors in the connector. This technique was used on a super-sonic target project I worked on some years ago and is illustrated here: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/Paralleled_DSub_Pins.pdf Sam is looking for a way to add a "wye-intersection" into one of the connectors for carrying the same current of to another location in the system. I've illustrated a suggestion to this task in another posting. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------


    Message 15


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    Time: 08:35:38 AM PST US
    From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
    Subject: Complex aircraft NTSB report
    I'm building an RV. I leave my hangar door open (I don't understand why people don't want visitors, really.) When expert builders stop by -- as they often do -- I encourage them to look at the project and holler if they see something that doesn't look right or could be improved (although I do joke that my hangar rules or "no looking closer than from 1 foot!"(g)). I've been building since 2001 and, yes, I'm a slow builder, but when I was growing up, my family called me the "Scotch tape kid," because I took the shortest route to fix any problem -- tape. If the airplane project has taught me anything at all, "take your time, do it right, and kick the people who make fun of how long it's taking out of the hangar" are the most important. I fear we're preaching to the choir here, however. People who read AeroElectric Connection or hang out here on the list, already have a preference for quality and good workmanship. Bob Collins St. Paul, MN. Letters From Flyover Country http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 10:01 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Complex aircraft NTSB report --> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> At 09:07 AM 6/28/2009, you wrote: 6/28/2009 The NTSB Report NYC08FA023 contains the following statement: "14 CFR Part 21.93 requires that any major changes that are made to an airplane require inspection by the FAA prior to further flight." This statement does not apply to the amateur built experimental airplane being reported upon in this accident report. Instead it applies to aircraft with changes in type design. Actions required when changes are made to an amateur built experimental aircraft are described in the Operating Limitations for that specific aircraft. Thanks for responding to this Bob. It rang some alarm bells when I first read it but had not yet taken time to research it.


    Message 16


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    Time: 08:35:39 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Battery Proximity and mounting
    At 02:03 AM 6/28/2009, you wrote: >To All: > >I recently made statements in a post under this subject that was >critical of Bob's responsiveness to an issue. The statements were >based on my recollections of posts over the past two years. Bob was >kind enought to continue the discussion with me off-group. In >preparation for that discussion, I reveiwed my posts on the issue >and could not find support for the statements I made. I would like >to retract those statements and make an appology to Bob and the >group for making them. > >Mark Thank you sir. No problem . . . and let's not dwell on it. We are all friends here. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------


    Message 17


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    Time: 09:00:05 AM PST US
    From: Ron Quillin <rjquillin@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Splicing at D-subs.
    As an additional data point, Garmin has a D-sub crimp and poke contact P/N 336-00023-00 for standard density connectors that accommodated an 18AWG wire. Ron Q. At 08:25 6/28/2009, you wrote: > Sorry for the long delay in responding . . . I > wish there were an "elegant" solution. Obviously > the D-Sub pin is limited to the insertion of but > a single 20AWG wire. The task is to tap > into a few conductors in a manner that does not > result in the wire bundle taking on that > "rabbit satisfied snake" appearance.


    Message 18


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    Time: 09:00:05 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Splicing of 2 or 3 conductor shielded cable
    At 08:19 AM 6/28/2009, you wrote: > >I am relocating the comm and mic jacks in my Lancair to a position >behind the pilot/co-pilot seatback and so the comm and mic cables need >to be lengthened. Any suggestions here for what would be the best >method for splicing additional length to these cables and also >maintaining the integrity of the shields? Strip back 3 inches or so of outer insulation on cables to be spliced. Pull conductors out of the shield as shown in , , , http://aeroelectric.com/articles/shldwire/shldwire.html Lap splice the individual strands as shown here . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Solder_Lap_Splicing/Solder_Lap_Splices.html Actually, you don't even need to "bulk up" the joint by wrapping the strands, you can simply lay them parallel and solder as shown on page 84 of . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/NASA/NASA-STD-8739p4c4.pdf Once the individual strands are joined and insulated, overlap the braid pigtails a half inch or so and lap solder them too. No individual insulation is called for on this final joint. Put a piece of heat-shrink over the finished splice. Shielding of these wires has a vanishingly small benefit for noise mitigation on these wires. Don't worry about loss of shielding integrity at the joint. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------


    Message 19


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    Time: 09:10:57 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Splicing at D-subs.
    At 10:56 AM 6/28/2009, you wrote: >As an additional data point, Garmin has a D-sub crimp and poke >contact P/N 336-00023-00 for standard density connectors that >accommodated an 18AWG wire. I've heard of those but never had an opportunity to use them. I'm sure there are other "nifty" solutions out there. I'll try to get my hands on some and look 'em over. I think I've heard of similar products from yesteryear. A larger diameter crimp/solder cup adapter would be quite elegant. Unfortunately, these devices seldom find their way into the Digikey or Radio Shack catalogs at attractive prices. Shade tree technicians are oft obliged to resort to processes adapted from the materials at hand. An as one can see from a study of the NASA handbook cited earlier, even the Big Guys have adopted some techniques we Poor Guys can duplicate. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------


    Message 20


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    Time: 09:47:55 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: NASA docs
    While searching the reference documents archives I'm reminded of this collection of NASA documents found on the 'net. I've compiled a library of useful publications and posted them to my website at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/NASA/ I'll invite any with an interest in the processes cited to add these documents to their library. In particular, check out the 1963 NASA wiring handbook that one of your fellow readers forwarded to me some months ago. This book was published two years after I got out of high school! It's an interesting adventure back in time but still rich in solid, simple-ideas. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------


    Message 21


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    Time: 09:52:43 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Splicing at D-subs.
    From: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@gmail.com>
    Thanks all - got it!. Now, off to the airport... Sam On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 10:25 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 09:03 AM 6/28/2009, you wrote: > > No - I saw that one and it's for shields. I was looking for something > similar for single conductor wire. > > It's no big deal. I was just looking for one of Bob's elegant soultions. > > > Sorry for the long delay in responding . . . I > wish there were an "elegant" solution. Obviously > the D-Sub pin is limited to the insertion of but > a single 20AWG wire. The task is to tap > into a few conductors in a manner that does not > result in the wire bundle taking on that > "rabbit satisfied snake" appearance. > > The lowest volume approach I can deduce is > to bare a short segment (1/4 to 3/8 inch) > of strands on wire to be tapped a couple > of inches from the end . . . > > > [image: Emacs!] > > Wrap the branch strands around the open gap, solder > and heat shrink. Then install the d-sub pin. > > [image: Emacs!] > > You probably want to have the spice occur outside > the back-shell of the connector. Stagger their > positions so that they don't "bulk up" a lump > in one place on the harness. > > Are you committed to 20AWG wire throughout? > 22AWG does this hat-dance a little better. > > > Bob . . . > > --------------------------------------- > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > --------------------------------------- > >


    Message 22


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    Time: 10:12:03 AM PST US
    From: Speedy11@aol.com
    Subject: First Flight
    My Appreciation to Bob and others on this list who helped me better understand electricity and its application to aircraft systems. The invaluable information I obtained on this forum was implemented into my RV-8A and my airplane flew for the first time today. The electrical system performed as expected and will continue to do so far into the future. Most of the info I got on this forum was not available elsewhere - or, at least, not without great difficulty. Thanks! Stan Sutterfield RV-8A N884P - Flying **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000006)


    Message 23


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    Time: 10:20:03 AM PST US
    From: Speedy11@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Battery Proximity and mounting
    Ha - I thought I was being gentle. My apology. Actually, I got an off forum email from him (his name is Mark) and we apologized to one another. Stan >Looks like we have another a**hole that refuses to include his >name. Could he be ashamed of it? >I got a nasty note from him off the forum for my comments on the forum. >Wonder what up with him? Gently my friend. This is after all a classroom with a broad spectrum of attendee needs and skill sets. The value of what we do here is not increased by prejudicial words. Let us strive to be teachers with a goal of working to everyone's satisfaction. Bob . . . **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000006)


    Message 24


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    Time: 10:51:15 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: First Flight
    From: Franz Fux <franz@lastfrontierheli.com>
    Congratulations Franz On 28/06/09 10:07 AM, "Speedy11@aol.com" <Speedy11@aol.com> wrote: > My Appreciation to Bob and others on this list who helped me better understand > electricity and its application to aircraft systems. The invaluable > information I obtained on this forum was implemented into my RV-8A and my > airplane flew for the first time today. The electrical system performed as > expected and will continue to do so far into the future. > Most of the info I got on this forum was not available elsewhere - or, at > least, not without great difficulty. > Thanks! > Stan Sutterfield > RV-8A N884P - Flying > > > Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes > <http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000006> for the grill. > > > >


    Message 25


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    Time: 10:51:25 AM PST US
    From: Ron Quillin <rjquillin@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: NASA docs
    Bob, The current editions I teach from... http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/codeq/doctree/87391.htm http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/codeq/doctree/87392.htm http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/codeq/doctree/87393.htm http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/codeq/doctree/87394.htm Ron Q. At 09:44 6/28/2009, you wrote: >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > ><nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > >While searching the reference documents archives I'm >reminded of this collection of NASA documents found on >the 'net. I've compiled a library of useful publications >and posted them to my website at: > >http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/NASA/ > > >I'll invite any with an interest in the processes >cited to add these documents to their library. In >particular, check out the 1963 NASA wiring handbook >that one of your fellow readers forwarded to me >some months ago. This book was published two years >after I got out of high school! It's an interesting >adventure back in time but still rich in solid, >simple-ideas. > > > Bob . . .


    Message 26


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    Time: 11:27:04 AM PST US
    From: "Bret Smith" <smithhb@tds.net>
    Subject: First Flight
    Congrats Stan! Now comes the fun part! Be careful during Phase 1. Bret Smith RV-9A N16BL Blue Ridge, Ga www.FlightInnovations.com <http://www.flightinnovations.com/> _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Speedy11@aol.com Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:08 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: First Flight My Appreciation to Bob and others on this list who helped me better understand electricity and its application to aircraft systems. The invaluable information I obtained on this forum was implemented into my RV-8A and my airplane flew for the first time today. The electrical system performed as expected and will continue to do so far into the future. Most of the info I got on this forum was not available elsewhere - or, at least, not without great difficulty. Thanks! Stan Sutterfield RV-8A N884P - Flying _____ Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy <http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000006> recipes for the grill.


    Message 27


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    Time: 11:50:41 AM PST US
    From: "Bob-tcw" <rnewman@tcwtech.com>
    Subject: TCW product update: SmartStart
    Fellow RV builders, Just a quick update regarding our SmartStart product. We have added a new option for use with our SmartStart anti-theft and safety starting module. We now are offering SmartStart with an optional airspeed switch that allows for in-flight restarting without having to re-arm the system. The airspeed switch (ASW-2) is available as an add-on for those who have already installed a SmartStart module. We are also making the system available as package which includes the SmartStart module, wiring harness and an airspeed switch. All the details are available on our web site: www.tcwtech.com The product instruction sheet has been updated and is avialable for downloading from our web site. Thanks, Bob Newman TCW Technologies, LLC.


    Message 28


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    Time: 12:57:32 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: NASA docs
    At 12:48 PM 6/28/2009, you wrote: >Bob, > >The current editions I teach from... > >http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/codeq/doctree/87391.htm >http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/codeq/doctree/87392.htm >http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/codeq/doctree/87393.htm >http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/codeq/doctree/87394.htm > >Ron Q. Thanks! I'll update my library as well as the website posting. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------


    Message 29


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    Time: 01:01:37 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: First Flight
    At 12:07 PM 6/28/2009, you wrote: >My Appreciation to Bob and others on this list who helped me better >understand electricity and its application to aircraft systems. The >invaluable information I obtained on this forum was implemented into >my RV-8A and my airplane flew for the first time today. The >electrical system performed as expected and will continue to do so >far into the future. >Most of the info I got on this forum was not available elsewhere - >or, at least, not without great difficulty. >Thanks! >Stan Sutterfield >RV-8A N884P - Flying Outstanding! Post some pictures! Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------


    Message 30


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    Time: 01:41:12 PM PST US
    From: "Gordon Smith" <gordonrsmith921@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Internally Regulated Alternator Control
    I have followed posts to the list regarding internally regulated alternators and it appears to me that all are not the same regarding regulator functions and connections. I am considering the use of an Eggenfellner E6.0 Subaru Auto conversion. The electrical system architecture will basically be Z-19. The Egg is supplied with an internally regulated alternator and their installation manual shows the following: ALTERNATOR CONNECTIONS - 4 1. B+ Lead Out - Large connection to Starter & Main Battery Contactor. 2. Fault - Goes to ground in case of alternator failure. For use of "idiot light". I suppose this could be used as a low voltage warning but I would opt for an active and separate warning system that could also control my aux battery contactor. 3. Sense - This is a short jumper to the B+ output terminal; I assume for voltage info to the internal regulator. (I also assume that sense and enable connections could be jumpered together and fed from the panel alternator master switch through the 5A CB controlled by the OV module.) 4. Enable - Clip From manual below: "5A Alternator Enable. To enable your alternator to produce charging current, this wire must be connected to a power source. This power source can be switched by the Master Switch or a subservient "Alternator" switch. People have come to know this function as an "alternator field", however that is a term that has lingered on from years ago. It is actually just an enable signal going to a solid-state voltage regulator inside the alternator. It knows only ON or OFF, not specific voltages in between. If you wish to have the ability to manually turn on and off the alternator, a switch should be provided. However, beware that turning an alternator on and off under heavy load can dramatically shorten the life of the alternator and cause substantial spikes and surges. If used, this switch should be left in the ON position, except when the alternator actually needs to be taken offline for some reason. For simplicity, this wire can simply be switched by the Master Switch or the Ignition Switch." End clip from manual. I would take this to indicate that the alternator can be shut down using this enable circuit, by switching off the 12V+ that goes to it. And therefore the Z-24 (&/or Z-24A) circuitry including the Alternator OV Disconnect Contactor would not have to be used. However, I believe that I have read on this list that these enable circuits will cause the alternator to power up when power is applied, but won't necessarily shut the alternator down when power is removed. Now I am confused. Is it possible/likely that the internally regulated alternator that Egg supplies will operate off and on through this "Enable" terminal; and all that one would need for OV protection (the manual does not say that the internal alternator regulator contains any circuitry for OV protection) is to add an OV module and 5A resettable CB in this circuit? Gordon Smith


    Message 31


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    Time: 02:27:17 PM PST US
    From: Brooke Wolf <bwolf1@tds.net>
    Subject: Re: First Flight
    Gongrats Stan! Which is more fun, T-38 or RV-8A? In my mind's eye.....a tough choice! Congratulations again! Brooke On Jun 28, 2009, at 1:07 PM, Speedy11@aol.com wrote: > My Appreciation to Bob and others on this list who helped me better > understand electricity and its application to aircraft systems. The > invaluable information I obtained on this forum was implemented into > my RV-8A and my airplane flew for the first time today. The > electrical system performed as expected and will continue to do so > far into the future. > Most of the info I got on this forum was not available elsewhere - > or, at least, not without great difficulty. > Thanks! > Stan Sutterfield > RV-8A N884P - Flying > > Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. > >


    Message 32


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    Time: 04:40:52 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Internally Regulated Alternator Control
    At 03:28 PM 6/28/2009, you wrote: I have followed posts to the list regarding internally regulated alternators and it appears to me that all are not the same regarding regulator functions and connections. I am considering the use of an Eggenfellner E6.0 Subaru Auto conversion. The electrical system architecture will basically be Z-19. The Egg is supplied with an internally regulated alternator and their installation manual shows the following: ALTERNATOR CONNECTIONS - 4 1. B+ Lead Out Large connection to Starter & Main Battery Contactor. Yes . . . 2. Fault Goes to ground in case of alternator failure. For use of idiot light. I suppose this could be used as a low voltage warning but I would opt for an active and separate warning system that could also control my aux battery contactor. This was discussed earlier this week. The built-in alternator failure light does not comport with legacy design goals for separate and independent monitoring and warning of low voltage. The AEC9005 is discontinued but Eric Jones has a clone. We'll have a new replacement in the form of the AEC9011 later this year. Either approach will satisfy the legacy design goals for low voltage monitor and control. 3. Sense This is a short jumper to the B+ output terminal; I assume for voltage info to the internal regulator. (I also assume that sense and enable connections could be jumpered together and fed from the panel alternator master switch through the 5A CB controlled by the OV module.) Don't know. Does the alternator have a brand and part number on it? 4. Enable Clip From manual below: 5A Alternator Enable. To enable your alternator to produce charging current, this wire must be connected to a power source. This power source can be switched by the Master Switch or a subservient Alternator switch. People have come to know this function as an alternator field, however that is a term that has lingered on from years ago. It is actually just an enable signal going to a solid-state voltage regulator inside the alternator. It knows only ON or OFF, not specific voltages in between. This is characteristic of ALL internally regulated alternators. I.e. there are no stock provisions for absolute control over the field supply source. This is why both B&C and Plane Power opt for their own modifications of stock alternators to provide this functionality. If you wish to have the ability to manually turn on and off the alternator, a switch should be provided. However, beware that turning an alternator on and off under heavy load can dramatically shorten the life of the alternator and cause substantial spikes and surges. If used, this switch should be left in the ON position, except when the alternator actually needs to be taken off line for some reason. For simplicity, this wire can simply be switched by the Master Switch or the Ignition Switch. Almost . . . Under the legacy design goals for alternator control, turning the field supply line on and off while a battery is on line offers no particular risk to the alternator or the ship's electro-whizzies. Further, it's a design goal of any quality supplier of alternators that their product be able to withstand b-lead disconnects (load dumps) under hot, full load, high rpm conditions. So adding Z-24 style OV protection to the internally regulated alternator presents no operational hazard for two reasons . . . (1) there is no normal operating condition where turning an alternator OFF under heavy load using Z-24 is called for . . . but a quality alternator would not be at risk anyhow. (2) Z-24 style protection can be depended upon to do it's intended job should the admittedly rare OV event occur. I would take this to indicate that the alternator can be shut down using this enable circuit, by switching off the 12V+ that goes to it. And therefore the Z-24 (&/or Z-24A) circuitry including the Alternator OV Disconnect Contactor would not have to be used. Assuming the electronics of the internal regulator is functioning as designed, then external control by means of the little wire at the back is possible and predictable. But if the electronics fails (which is the definition of an OV event) then all bets are off. Legacy design goals call for separate and independent control over the alternator during an OV event . . . this is what drove the design philosophy for Z-24. Alternatively, you can modify your alternator to adopt the control philosophy adopted by Plane Power. However, I believe that I have read on this list that these enable circuits will cause the alternator to power up when power is applied, but wont necessarily shut the alternator down when power is removed. As far as anyone KNOWS, the control lead will always exert any time, ON/OFF control . . . as long as the internal electronics are intact. Further, exercising this control at any time under any conditions is not a risky thing to do as long as the battery is on line. This design goal is satisfied when you utilize the progressive transfer DC PWR MASTER switch architecture described in the Z-figures. Now I am confused. Is it possible/likely that the internally regulated alternator that Egg supplies will operate off and on through this Enable terminal; and all that one would need for OV protection (the manual does not say that the internal alternator regulator contains any circuitry for OV protection) is to add an OV module and 5A resettable CB in this circuit? If it were my airplane, I would add OV protection in the form of either Plane Power style modification or Z-24 interim to be replaced by the Z-24 final solution at a later time. Bob . . .


    Message 33


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    Time: 04:40:53 PM PST US
    From: MLWynn@aol.com
    Subject: Re: First Flight
    Congratulations, Stan! All the work come to fruition. Regards, Michael Wynn RV 8 FWF San Ramon, CA In a message dated 6/28/2009 10:14:31 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Speedy11@aol.com writes: My Appreciation to Bob and others on this list who helped me better understand electricity and its application to aircraft systems. The invaluable information I obtained on this forum was implemented into my RV-8A and my airplane flew for the first time today. The electrical system performed as expected and will continue to do so far into the future. Most of the info I got on this forum was not available elsewhere - or, at least, not without great difficulty. Thanks! Stan Sutterfield RV-8A N884P - Flying ____________________________________ Make your summer sizzle with _fast and easy recipes_ (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000006) for the grill. (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! eExcfooterNO62)




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