Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:34 AM - self weighing our planes (David M.)
2. 05:41 AM - Audio panel for nav audio (Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr)
3. 06:41 AM - Re: self weighing our planes (BobsV35B@aol.com)
4. 06:42 AM - LED Headlamps (Eric M. Jones)
5. 07:19 AM - Re: self weighing our planes (Jared Yates)
6. 08:38 AM - Re: Help with LCD Circuit Design - Altitude & Heading (David E. Nelson)
7. 09:40 AM - Re: Re: Help with LCD Circuit Design - Altitude & Heading (Sean Stephens)
8. 11:40 AM - Re: self weighing our planes (Kevin Horton)
9. 01:00 PM - Re: Re: Help with LCD Circuit Design - Altitude & Heading (Mike Fontenot)
10. 01:16 PM - Re: Audio panel for nav audio (Buckaroo Banzai)
11. 01:49 PM - Re: Race timing help (Mike Humphrey)
12. 03:28 PM - Re: self weighing our planes (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 08:00 PM - Re: Race timing help (Sam Hoskins)
14. 11:03 PM - Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
15. 11:15 PM - Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | self weighing our planes |
Does anyone have experience with strain gauges? I envision strain
gauges somewhere on each of the 3 "legs" of the plane, calibrated
initially at the empty weight of the plane and then again at full fuel,
oil, and etc. What that would give us is a constant readout or our
plane's weight, esp on takeoff. One could argue that landing weight
could be inferred as well while still in the air. This should help
immensely with the (uncommon) problems of taking off too heavy or (gasp)
CG being out of range.
I want to try this on my plane but I have no experience with strain
gauges. I'm thinking of mounting them where the legs meet the fuselage
for the mains, and maybe at the movable joint on the front (mine is a
trike.)
Any ideas?
David M.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Audio panel for nav audio |
Hi Bob and all,
A buddy asked for help in installing his Garmin SL30.
I'll need some clarification about nav audio. Do we actually need an audio panel
in order to hear the nav audio input through the phones ?
Sorry if this has been asked before, but my home internet connection has been down
for weeks.
Thanks in advance,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: self weighing our planes |
Good Morning David,
Strain gauges do have a lot of capability. For some reason, every time a
proposal is made to use them for a control function, various calibration
issues arise. It will be interesting to see what the brainy guys on the list
come up with.
The idea of having an instantaneous check of weight has been toyed with for
many years. Not sure how long ago it started. However, my first exposure
was just after WWII when tricycle landing gear became common on air carrier
aircraft. Since everyone of the then popular tricycle landing geared
airliners used air/oil hydraulic struts on their landing gear, the obvious
answer was to measure the change in strut pressure as the aircraft was being
loaded.
The first objection came from those who mentioned air loads. We can't even
get a good static weighing of an airplane unless the weighing is being
conducted in a closed hangar. Even ceiling fans must be shut off because those
have been known to affect a precise weighing.
Once an engine is started, additional varying loads would be applied that
mess up the weight numbers.
If all those variables are considered, do we really want something that
will tell us we are ten pounds too heavy? Or maybe that our CG is two tenths
of an inch aft of where it should be?
For safety, I think we would all like to have that information, but only if
it was absolutely guaranteed to be accurate and repeatable information.
I wish you well in your endeavor and hope that the problems can be solved,
but the powers that be have elected to study the situation quite a bit more
before using it in commercial aviation.
Let us know how it works for you.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Downers Grove IL
LL22
Stearman N3977A
In a message dated 7/1/2009 6:37:05 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
ainut@hiwaay.net writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David M." <ainut@hiwaay.net>
Does anyone have experience with strain gauges? I envision strain
gauges somewhere on each of the 3 "legs" of the plane, calibrated
initially at the empty weight of the plane and then again at full fuel,
oil, and etc. What that would give us is a constant readout or our
plane's weight, esp on takeoff. One could argue that landing weight
could be inferred as well while still in the air. This should help
immensely with the (uncommon) problems of taking off too heavy or (gasp)
CG being out of range.
I want to try this on my plane but I have no experience with strain
gauges. I'm thinking of mounting them where the legs meet the fuselage
for the mains, and maybe at the movable joint on the front (mine is a
trike.)
Any ideas?
David M.
**************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the
grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005)
Message 4
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A customer of mine is buying LED Headlamps from Truck-Lite. They make these for
the military and come in 12V and 28V. Direct replacement for Par56, H6014 and
H6024 lamps. Expensive...$309.99 each.
See: http://www.levineautoparts.com/ledheadlights.html
I have no experience with them, but this is where the world will go when the price
drops. And other sizes and forms will dominate no doubt.
"Inventor: A person who makes an
ingenious arrangement of wheels,
levers and springs, and believes
it civilization."
--Ambrose Bierce
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250932#250932
Message 5
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| Subject: | self weighing our planes |
I think that some airliners have tried onboard systems, but the shortcoming
is that it is hard to build a system that is sensitive enough to keep the
accuracy where you would want it but yet strong enough to survive the
stresses of landings. Most big planes have instead moved in the direction
of math calculations with average weights instead. Those calculations have
a lot of room for error, and yet someone must have decided at some point
that they were still more accurate than strain gauges. Maybe with a small
plane and feather fingertips for the landings, you could make it work!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David M.
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 7:32 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: self weighing our planes
Does anyone have experience with strain gauges? I envision strain
gauges somewhere on each of the 3 "legs" of the plane, calibrated
initially at the empty weight of the plane and then again at full fuel,
oil, and etc. What that would give us is a constant readout or our
plane's weight, esp on takeoff. One could argue that landing weight
could be inferred as well while still in the air. This should help
immensely with the (uncommon) problems of taking off too heavy or (gasp)
CG being out of range.
I want to try this on my plane but I have no experience with strain
gauges. I'm thinking of mounting them where the legs meet the fuselage
for the mains, and maybe at the movable joint on the front (mine is a
trike.)
Any ideas?
David M.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Help with LCD Circuit Design - Altitude & Heading |
Hi Mike,
You might look into the "Arduino".
>From a learning perspective, this looks to be pretty easy to get started (ie
relatively low entry cost and easy access to h/w) and has lots of potential to
go crazy (in a good way, of course ;). The integrated development environment
(IDE) is open-source and works under Linux, Windows, and MacOS X.
Some links:
http://www.arduino.cc
http://www.arduino.cc/en/Guide/HomePage - Getting Started
http://www.arduino.cc/playground/
http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Code/LCD - LCD Specific writings...
I don't have experience in this area, but thought I'd pass it on in the spirit
of the original inquiry.
Good luck,
/\/elson
~~ Lately my memory seems to be like a steel trap .... without any spring. ~~
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Help with LCD Circuit Design - Altitude & Heading |
Or http://www.nerdkits.com/. Nice "noob starter" manual comes with
the kit.
On Jul 1, 2009, at 10:32 AM, David E. Nelson wrote:
> >
>
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> You might look into the "Arduino".
>
>> From a learning perspective, this looks to be pretty easy to get
>> started (ie
> relatively low entry cost and easy access to h/w) and has lots of
> potential to go crazy (in a good way, of course ;). The integrated
> development environment (IDE) is open-source and works under Linux,
> Windows, and MacOS X.
>
> Some links:
>
> http://www.arduino.cc
> http://www.arduino.cc/en/Guide/HomePage - Getting Started
> http://www.arduino.cc/playground/
> http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Code/LCD - LCD Specific writings...
>
> I don't have experience in this area, but thought I'd pass it on in
> the spirit of the original inquiry.
>
> Good luck,
> /\/elson
>
>
> ~~ Lately my memory seems to be like a steel trap .... without any
> spring. ~~
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: self weighing our planes |
On 1 Jul 2009, at 07:32, David M. wrote:
>
> Does anyone have experience with strain gauges? I envision strain
> gauges somewhere on each of the 3 "legs" of the plane, calibrated
> initially at the empty weight of the plane and then again at full
> fuel, oil, and etc. What that would give us is a constant readout
> or our plane's weight, esp on takeoff. One could argue that landing
> weight could be inferred as well while still in the air. This
> should help immensely with the (uncommon) problems of taking off too
> heavy or (gasp) CG being out of range.
> I want to try this on my plane but I have no experience with strain
> gauges. I'm thinking of mounting them where the legs meet the
> fuselage for the mains, and maybe at the movable joint on the front
> (mine is a trike.)
> Any ideas?
One big problem will be that as you add weight, and the gear flexes,
the bottom end of the gear legs need to move outwards. If you are
stopped, the friction between the tires and the ground prevent the
bottom ends of the gear legs from spreading apart. Once you start to
move, and the wheels roll, the wheels will spread apart a bit to allow
the gear legs to take up their new natural position. So, once the
aircraft is loaded, you won't get a repeatable measurement until the
aircraft rolls a few feet. If while the aircraft is rolling, a tire
comes upon a piece of ground that is not even from side to side, that
will tend to make the wheel roll a bit to the left or right of its
natural position, which will affect the strain on the upper end of the
gear leg, changing the strain gauge output.
There is no harm in conducting the experiment, but I'm not optimistic
that you would be able to get acceptable accuracy in the real world.
I'll be amazed if you get accuracy better than 100 lb.
Please keep up posted. This is an interesting project.
--
Kevin Horton (Grounded)
RV-8 (Flight Test Phase)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Help with LCD Circuit Design - Altitude & |
Heading
Thanks Guys,
I have so far gone with the simple Push Wheel switch that Bob K suggested. I
got the parts from Digikey for about $50 for 7 pushwheels, end caps, and a
simple black enclosure. I mounted it up in a four button/altitude and three
button/heading configuration. Simple and easy to mount.
I'll try to post a photo over the holiday weekend.
Thanks,
Mike
On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Sean Stephens <sean@stephensville.com>wrote:
> sean@stephensville.com>
>
> Or http://www.nerdkits.com/. Nice "noob starter" manual comes with the
> kit.
>
>
> On Jul 1, 2009, at 10:32 AM, David E. Nelson wrote:
>
>> david.nelson@pobox.com>
>>
>>
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> You might look into the "Arduino".
>>
>> From a learning perspective, this looks to be pretty easy to get started
>>> (ie
>>>
>> relatively low entry cost and easy access to h/w) and has lots of
>> potential to go crazy (in a good way, of course ;). The integrated
>> development environment (IDE) is open-source and works under Linux, Windows,
>> and MacOS X.
>>
>> Some links:
>>
>> http://www.arduino.cc
>> http://www.arduino.cc/en/Guide/HomePage - Getting Started
>> http://www.arduino.cc/playground/
>> http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Code/LCD - LCD Specific writings...
>>
>> I don't have experience in this area, but thought I'd pass it on in the
>> spirit of the original inquiry.
>>
>> Good luck,
>> /\/elson
>>
>>
>> ~~ Lately my memory seems to be like a steel trap .... without any
>> spring. ~~
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Mike
===============================
Mike Fontenot
Apex Consulting & Services LLC
Lakewood, Colorado
303 / 731-6645
mikef AT apexconsultingservices DOT com
===============================
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Audio panel for nav audio |
Gilles,
The nav audio is available from the SL-30 without an audio panel.- You ca
n also access the menus to adjust the volume of the nav audio relative to t
he volume of the com audio.- I have my nav volume set at 80 percent so th
at I always hear the com audio over the nav audio.- I've been flying the
airplane with this arrangement for 5 years.
Greg
--- On Wed, 7/1/09, Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble
.fr> wrote:
From: Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Audio panel for nav audio
Hi Bob and all,
A buddy asked for help in installing his Garmin SL30.
I'll need some clarification about nav audio. Do we actually need an audio
panel in order to hear the nav audio input through the phones ?
Sorry if this has been asked before, but my home internet connection has be
en down for weeks.
Thanks in advance,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Race timing help |
James,
Where can you buy one?
Thanks,
Mike H
----- Original Message -----
From: berkut13@berkut13.com
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 2:49 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Race timing help
Many of us in the SARL (www.sportairrace.org) purchased low cost GPS
data loggers to analyze our own performance. It records at 1sec
(programmable) resolution, Lat, Long, Speed, and Alt for about 5hrs,
more at lower res. The data can then be uploaded into Google Earth and
viewed. It is very easy to mark the crossing of start/finish lines,
turn points, etc. From that, you can derive your TRUE course timing -
much more accurately than a human centric process. Eventually, the
races will be timed off of these units instead of human timers and turn
point observers.
http://www.globalsat.com.tw/eng/product_detail_00000090.htm
This is the one I use, many others are out there. Be sure the one you
choose has the ability to output or export to .GPX format. This is the
"standard" GPS data format that is expected by most data formatting
sites and programs. I also use http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/ to
colorize my track by speed, add a semi-transparent wall connected to the
ground, and other things. Very neat stuff. It sure lets you know if
you blow a turn or wander in altitude/heading. My closest competitor
and I share our data and superimpose our tracks on GoogleEarth to see
how each others performance compared.
At less than $100...this things are golden in my book!
James Redmon
Berkut #013/Race 13
www.berkut13.com
2007 SARL Silver National Champion
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Young
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 9:54 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Race timing help
I just participated in a type club speed event (without lawyers we'd
call it a race) and the time keeping got unbelievably screwed up for
such a small group (18 planes). Even though there are classes and
staggered starts we got folks crossing the finish tip to tip at pattern
altitude. Suffice to say that human errors on both the pilots and timers
parts caused a lot of grief. Sooo... what kind of technology is out
there to assist? All we really need is start and finish times for each
plane. It could be plane based, ground based or a combo but it needs to
be affordable for 20-30 planes to use and able to deliver the results
quickly, e.g. a download and analysis of everyone's 396/496 bread crumb
trail probably won't do. I was kinda thinking of giant barcodes under
the wing and a 10 KW scanner at the finish point;-) Hopefully someone
knows of something simpler, cheaper and more elegant. What's available?
Thanks,
Greg Young
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: self weighing our planes |
>
>One big problem will be that as you add weight, and the gear flexes,
>the bottom end of the gear legs need to move outwards. If you are
>stopped, the friction between the tires and the ground prevent the
>bottom ends of the gear legs from spreading apart. Once you start to
>move, and the wheels roll, the wheels will spread apart a bit to allow
>the gear legs to take up their new natural position. So, once the
>aircraft is loaded, you won't get a repeatable measurement until the
>aircraft rolls a few feet. If while the aircraft is rolling, a tire
>comes upon a piece of ground that is not even from side to side, that
>will tend to make the wheel roll a bit to the left or right of its
>natural position, which will affect the strain on the upper end of the
>gear leg, changing the strain gauge output.
>
>There is no harm in conducting the experiment, but I'm not optimistic
>that you would be able to get acceptable accuracy in the real world.
>I'll be amazed if you get accuracy better than 100 lb.
Aha! I'd not thought of that one. Thanks Ken.
Got my feet wet in strain gages about 38 years
ago when we fiddled with adding a patient weighing
feature to the Mobilizer hospital patient transporter
for which I was developing the electrics.
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Mobilizer_3s.jpg
The task using electronics available at the time
was a challenge! The feature didn't get incorporated
until years after the project was sold off and
I note that the brochure doesn't mention it now.
http://tinyurl.com/mtt42o
Here's what we wrestled with back then . . . and
you have to look forward to today.
Strain gages measure stretching or compression
on the surface. It's expressed in MICROINCHES per
INCH of dimensional variation as the material
is stressed. There's an excellent historical
on perceptions and measurement of force at:
http://www.omega.com/Literature/Transactions/volume3/history.html
The full scale value of signal from a strain
gage is very small. Typically, a strain-gage
bridge stretched (or compressed) to near limits
and excited with 10 volt will give you an output
between 5 and 20 millivolts. The materials from
which your landing gear is constructed will
determine how much strain the gage sees . . .
but in landing gears (designed for robustness)
it's hard to get large values of strain on
robust articles! It's more likely that you
would get useful data if you could incorporate
off-the-shelf, ruggedized load cells into your
gear system.
http://www.daytronic.com/products/trans/t-loadcells.htm
Pretty ugly . . . no?
Hence the signal you need to slice up into
1000-2000 parts for accurately resolving
weights can get pretty small to begin with.
As Ken mentioned, getting the geometry right
for accurately sensing the true gravity
component of load on the gear is daunting.
Measuring pressure in an oleo strut seems
most promising.
We do this kind of thing in the lab all the
time . . . and on flight test aircraft. But I
can tell you that of ALL the measurements we
do on test airframes, strain gages are the
most problematic either for bonding, wiring,
amplifying signals to useful levels, etc.
Even if you whipped the instrumentation
design, then there's a matter of robustness in
the work-a-day environment.
Accurate resolution of weight-on-wheels in service
has been considered on a lot of projects big and small.
They may be doing it well on something like
the A380 or B787 . . . but if my boss handed
me a project like that today, I'd seriously
consider advancing my retirement date! It's
NOT easy or everyone would be doing it.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Race timing help |
Greg - Take a look here - "Timing the Race"
http://www.sportairrace.org/id141.html
Sam
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:54 PM, Greg Young <gyoung@cs-sol.com> wrote:
> I just participated in a type club speed event (without lawyers we'd call
> it a race) and the time keeping got unbelievably screwed up for such a small
> group (18 planes). Even though there are classes and staggered starts we got
> folks crossing the finish tip to tip at pattern altitude. Suffice to say
> that human errors on both the pilots and timers parts caused a lot of grief.
> Sooo... what kind of technology is out there to assist? All we really need
> is start and finish times for each plane. It could be plane based, ground
> based or a combo but it needs to be affordable for 20-30 planes to use and
> able to deliver the results quickly, e.g. a download and analysis of
> everyone's 396/496 bread crumb trail probably won't do. I was kinda thinking
> of giant barcodes under the wing and a 10 KW scanner at the finish point;-)
> Hopefully someone knows of something simpler, cheaper and more elegant.
> What's available?
>
> Thanks,
> Greg Young
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
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The
complete AeroElectric-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
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Thank you,
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Matronics Email List Administrator
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with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "aeroelectric-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the AeroElectric-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all AeroElectric-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the AeroElectric-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* AeroElectric-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?AeroElectric
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
AeroElectric-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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| Subject: | Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
AeroElectric-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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