---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/08/09: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:41 AM - Re: Inspection camera (Harley) 2. 07:15 AM - Re: Spike catcher diode (Eric M. Jones) 3. 08:09 AM - Re: Spike catcher diode (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 08:20 AM - Re: Icom A-210 intercom (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 08:56 AM - Altitude Encoder Readout (LARRY SHARRATT) 6. 09:18 AM - Re: Spike catcher diode () 7. 09:18 AM - Grounding question (Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr) 8. 09:59 AM - Re: Spike catcher diode (Matt Prather) 9. 10:05 AM - Re: Altitude Encoder Readout (Ken) 10. 10:09 AM - Re: Altitude Encoder Readout (Matt Prather) 11. 12:54 PM - Re: Icom A-210 intercom (Ken) 12. 03:13 PM - Re: Spike catcher diode (Wade Roe) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:41:21 AM PST US From: Harley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Inspection camera >>About the closest it seemed to focus was ~4 inches...<< I think I did mention that in one of the emails I sent. In response to other concerns over the camera's diameter being too large to fit in a spark plug hole, I also mentioned that there is a 9 mm camera and extension available for the Ridgid unit, that might fit the HF one. I believe that smaller camera version was listed as having a shorter focal length. So, if we can find out if the smaller, 9mm camera works with this unit, we can kill two birds...fitting in small holes, and focal distance. >>Were any planning on using this for any form of detailed inspection,or just a "what's in there" look-see?<< I originally got it so that I could find dropped washers, nuts, sockets, etc. (done that many times!) inside the wing spar on my Long EZ, instead of fishing around with a mirror in one hand, a flashlight in another, and the grabbing device in my third... I was happy to see that this camera came with a magnet and a fishing hook. Will also be handy for inspecting fuel tanks when I get the filler holes cut, the hell hole, inside the cowling when attached, checking for insects and chipmunk and mouse storage locations (I recently found a whole walnut shoved into the wingtip light mounting hole on one wing...probably a squirrel, but I didn't need the camera to see it). I really wasn't concerned with viewing anything much closer than a few inches. Already used it at a friends house to locate some small parts that were dropped behind her entertainment center. We used to have to move that behemoth to retrieve anything! Also used it to see behind my desk here (it's a huge oak desk that has the computer side mounted at a right angle to the rest of the desk, so it fits in the corner against TWO walls...almost impossible to move and difficult to see behind without laying down on top of the desk..after taking the time to clear it off. I feel I've received my money's worth already! Harley ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ronburnett@charter.net wrote: > > In my hangar we fight mud dobbers and I will look through the wing inspection holes and be able to tell them at 4" or greater. It'll be worth it for me for just that use. > Ron Burnett > N1131B-8A Moscow Mills, MO > -- > > > ---- Ron Quillin wrote: > > ============ > Apologies; found more of the thread. > Looks like others too are also finding close work not great. > > Any further opinions? > > >> Huge long thread here and perhaps I missed some of the discussion... >> HF had them on sale plus I had a 20% off coupon; had to bite. >> Finally got around to playing with it. >> Pretty cute, but... >> The manual has no mention of focal distances. >> For some reason I expected some form of adjustment; nada. >> About the closest it seemed to focus was ~4 inches. >> Tried to read some text and stamped serial numbers; nearly impossible. >> >> Were any planning on using this for any form of detailed inspection, >> or just a "what's in there" look-see? >> >> As cute as it is, I'm finding it difficult to find an application >> where any detail at all is required. >> Others having different results? >> >> Ron Q. >> > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:39 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Spike catcher diode From: "Eric M. Jones" This issue has been argued here for years, so spare me your flames Bob. Today, no electronic engineer recommends diodes for contactor coil suppression. They are not the best, nor the second, nor the third, nor even fourth best way to do the job. Mechanical relays and contactors depend upon magnetism generated by an electric current running through a wire coil. When the current stops, the magnetic field collapses. But the relay does not know the difference between a wire coil moving in a magnetic field (as in a generator) or a magnetic field moving in a wire coil (as in a collapsing magnetic field). Thus a large voltage1000V to 1500V typicallyis induced in the coil. This current goes the same direction the original current didso it slows the contact openingallowing arcing, chatter, bouncing, contact welding and even re-closure! Perihelion Design sells 18V 600W Bi-Directional Zener Transient Voltage Suppressors P6KE18CA (for 14.5V systems) that provide the most modern technical solution to relay coil suppression. See my website or buy your own. The Gigavac GX11 contactor already has bidirectional zeners for coil suppression. Gee, I wonder why!? This issue has been argued here for years, so ignore me Bob. "When I look up at the night sky and think about the billions of stars out there, I think to myself: I'm amazing." - Peter Serafinowicz -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252099#252099 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:10 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Spike catcher diode At 10:53 AM 7/7/2009, you wrote: >On the stock Van=92s battery contactor, there is >only three terminals (two 5 1/6 and one 3/16 >front and center). I am unsure where to install >the IN5400 diode. Can anyone comment on proper >placement? Also, what about the diode placement >on the Van=92s stock starter contactor? Please >excuse my very =93green=94 hands regarding electronics=85learning! One of the battery contactor's large terminals should be marked "BAT". The diode's banded end connects to this terminal. The other end goes to the 3/16" terminal. This was the image of Van's starter contactor from his website. Emacs! The right small terminal is marked "I" and is not used. The left small terminal is power from the starter push button on the panel. The banded end of the diode connects to this terminal also. The other end connects to one of the contactor's mouning bolts which is also airframe ground. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:13 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Icom A-210 intercom At 01:41 PM 7/6/2009, you wrote: >Kevin - funny you should mention that. Yesterday I was running the >engine with the intercom turned on, for the first time. I couldn't >adjust the VOX squelch enough to prevent it coming on, anywhere >above 1,500 RPM. They don't seem to have enough range in the >adjustment. Let me know if you hear anything from their Tech Support. Keep in mind that adjustable VOX systems are WATCHING for an increase in signal from the microphone which it ASSUMES is YOU TALKING. Depending on microphone's signal to noise radio (ability to cancel background noise), increases in cabin noise will cause the VOX system to open up and requires resetting the threshold level. I've never encountered a microphone/intercom combination that did not require readjustment for engine off versus climb versus level flight conditions. If the microphone noise canceling abilities are poor, then some VOX systems will be unable to make the distinction between your voice and other noises in the cabin. Cabin noise varies greatly from one airplane to another. I worked with a customer some years ago to add a combination of active frequency filters and a software driven threshold detector that could make a distinction between syllabic voice signals and the relatively constant characteristics of cabin noise. But even this system could be undone if you didn't use a pretty good noise cancelling microphone with it. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:22 AM PST US From: LARRY SHARRATT Subject: AeroElectric-List: Altitude Encoder Readout Don't know if this is the proper forum for this, but here goes: Some years ago, maybe 15 or so, there was an article in Sport Aviation regarding a kit for a panel-mounted device which would give a constant display of what the encoder was sending. Since then, I haven't heard of any such instrument, except what's incorporated in the newer transponders. Does anyone on this forum know of any such self-contained instrument that could be used with the older transponders/encoders? Thanks Larry Sharratt ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:18:10 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Spike catcher diode From: Wade, Which approach (Zeners, Diodes or nothing) you choose is up to you. On my website link below you can see where I employed Van's "blue" starter diode (I have an extra contactor 'cause it's IR) which uses the same approach. As Bob indicated I snaked the other end around the contactor to the mounting bolt. Van's little direction sheet is quite clear - don't deviate from it. In my case the solenoids are mounted on carbon fiber so I use a ground back to the FG. I haven't decided if I'm going to use zeeners, diodes or just replace the solenoid on some scheduled basis. I've yet to see anything from anyone which shows how much longer (days, weeks or years) a solenoid lasts by adding these gadgets. The problem is real, but actual life expectancy needs to be measured to satisfy my interest. If you are the typical pilot which flies 35 hours / year it will fail from sitting around before it fails from arching. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hkAHk0Xu6wo/SdymLdP-KbI/AAAAAAAAA1A/rF4p8Xvi2U U/s1600-h/IMG_1312.JPG Glenn From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wade Roe Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 11:54 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Spike catcher diode On the stock Van's battery contactor, there is only three terminals (two 5 1/6 and one 3/16 front and center). I am unsure where to install the IN5400 diode. Can anyone comment on proper placement? Also, what about the diode placement on the Van's stock starter contactor? Please excuse my very "green" hands regarding electronics...learning! Thanks! Wade Roe EAA 557 Aeronca 7AC flying RV-7 nearing completion -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 1:33 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Spike catcher diode At 11:09 AM 7/3/2009, you wrote: I have the stock Van's master and starter contactors. Does anyone know if either of these items have internal diodes? Also, what size diode should be used on the starter contactor assuming an external is needed? I'm referencing AEC Z-13/8. Thanks! The master certainly would not. The starter MIGHT and would say so stamped on the under side of the mounting flange. In any case, two suppressors are better than no suppressors. There are no rectifier diodes you can pick that will be at-risk for electrical overload. My personal favorites are the electrical over-kill (but mechanically robust) 1N540x series. These are really inexpensive and available from Radio Shack and others . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/RS_Diodes.jpg The 1A, 1N400x series are electrically quite adequate but more fragile. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) --------------------------------------- - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web Site - Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:18:27 AM PST US From: Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr Subject: AeroElectric-List: Grounding question Hi Bob and all, A buddy asked for help in adapting the wiring of his factory built Rotax 912 S aircraft. He wishes something more similar to fig Z16 His battery, contactor, regulator and capacitor are under the seats, whereas the ground bus is on the firewall. The factory originally grounded the regulator and battery contactor direct at the minus post of the battery. Is it advisable to retain this configuration, or would it be better to ground those at the ground bus on the firewall, and retain only one fat ground wire running from the fwl to the minus pole of the battery. Thanks in advance for your help, Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:59:44 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Spike catcher diode From: "Matt Prather" My thinking is that going without spike protection will cause the controlling switch to have a shorter service life. The high voltage is across the coil... ANY of the spike protection methods will provide the controlling switch with a relatively easy life. The question of WHICH protection method is about RELAY performance and life. Then too I would expect many of the relays in the airplane to not particularly care about which protection method is employed. Many of them aren't switching very high current, at least not very often. The alternator relay should last "forever" as it should rarely if ever be asked to switch the alternator when it's making much current. The starter relay is the one that regularly gets hit hard - switching hundreds of amps in many aircraft each flight. Setting that relay up to open and close as succinctly as possible should help its service life. I would think electrically operated landing gear controlling relays would be the next one in terms of severity of duty. Regards, Matt- > Wade, > > > Which approach (Zeners, Diodes or nothing) you choose is up to you. On > my website link below you can see where I employed Van's "blue" starter > diode (I have an extra contactor 'cause it's IR) which uses the same > approach. As Bob indicated I snaked the other end around the contactor > to the mounting bolt. Van's little direction sheet is quite clear - > don't deviate from it. In my case the solenoids are mounted on carbon > fiber so I use a ground back to the FG. I haven't decided if I'm going > to use zeeners, diodes or just replace the solenoid on some scheduled > basis. I've yet to see anything from anyone which shows how much longer > (days, weeks or years) a solenoid lasts by adding these gadgets. The > problem is real, but actual life expectancy needs to be measured to > satisfy my interest. If you are the typical pilot which flies 35 hours / > year it will fail from sitting around before it fails from arching. > > > http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hkAHk0Xu6wo/SdymLdP-KbI/AAAAAAAAA1A/rF4p8Xvi2U > U/s1600-h/IMG_1312.JPG > > > Glenn > > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wade > Roe > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 11:54 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Spike catcher diode > > > On the stock Van's battery contactor, there is only three terminals (two > 5 1/6 and one 3/16 front and center). I am unsure where to install the > IN5400 diode. Can anyone comment on proper placement? Also, what about > the diode placement on the Van's stock starter contactor? Please excuse > my very "green" hands regarding electronics...learning! > > > Thanks! > > > Wade Roe > > > EAA 557 > > Aeronca 7AC flying > > RV-7 nearing completion > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Robert L. Nuckolls, III > Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 1:33 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Spike catcher diode > > > At 11:09 AM 7/3/2009, you wrote: > > > I have the stock Van's master and starter contactors. Does anyone know > if either of these items have internal diodes? Also, what size diode > should be used on the starter contactor assuming an external is needed? > I'm referencing AEC Z-13/8. Thanks! > > > The master certainly would not. The starter MIGHT > and would say so stamped on the under side of > the mounting flange. In any case, two suppressors > are better than no suppressors. > > There are no rectifier diodes you can pick that > will be at-risk for electrical overload. My personal > favorites are the electrical over-kill (but > mechanically robust) 1N540x series. These > are really inexpensive and available from > Radio Shack and others . . . > > http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/RS_Diodes.jpg > > The 1A, 1N400x series are electrically quite > adequate but more fragile. > > > Bob . . . > > --------------------------------------- > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > --------------------------------------- > > > - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum - > --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > --> http://forums.matronics.com > > - List Contribution Web Site - > Thank you for your generous support! > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:05:01 AM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Altitude Encoder Readout Any chance you need an excuse to acquire an MRX traffic detector ;) The MRX will display transponder code and the altitude you are transmitting but it's around $500. A MRX plus a new bottom end transponder made more sense to me than spending the same or more for a more expensive transponder though. There are enough units around that you could likely borrow one if the need is short term. Ken LARRY SHARRATT wrote: > Don't know if this is the proper forum for this, but here goes: > Some years ago, maybe 15 or so, there was an article in Sport Aviation > regarding a kit for a panel-mounted device which would give a constant > display of what the encoder was sending. Since then, I haven't heard of > any such instrument, except what's incorporated in the newer > transponders. Does anyone on this forum know of any such self-contained > instrument that could be used with the older transponders/encoders? > > Thanks > > Larry Sharratt > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:51 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Altitude Encoder Readout From: "Matt Prather" I believe the article in question starts on page 66 of the Feb 1992 issue of Sport Aviation.. I don't know if the plans/kits are still available. If you are an EAA member, the article can be downloaded from the Sport Aviation website. Regards, Matt- > Don't know if this is the proper forum for this, but here goes: > Some years ago, maybe 15 or so, there was an article in Sport Aviation > regarding a kit for a panel-mounted device which would give a constant > display of what the encoder was sending. Since then, I haven't heard of > any such instrument, except what's incorporated in the newer transponders. > Does anyone on this forum know of any such self-contained instrument that > could be used with the older transponders/encoders? > > Thanks > > Larry Sharratt > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:07 PM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Icom A-210 intercom This seems to have been solved in the Flighttech intercom although in a different manner. I believe he uses a telephone noise cancelling chip on the mic. Anyway I find that it works perfectly for me with no detectable background noise on the ground or in the air, and no delays or clipped speech. Unlike VOX systems, no cabin noise comes through when talking either! It does not affect my VHF icom A200 transmissions as those don't route through the intercom chip. Ken > > I worked with a customer some years ago to add a > combination of active frequency filters and a software > driven threshold detector that could make a distinction > between syllabic voice signals and the relatively > constant characteristics of cabin noise. But even this > system could be undone if you didn't use a pretty good > noise cancelling microphone with it. > > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:13:57 PM PST US From: "Wade Roe" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Spike catcher diode Thanks for everyone's comments. Wade Roe -----Original Message---- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 10:07 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Spike catcher diode At 10:53 AM 7/7/2009, you wrote: On the stock Van's battery contactor, there is only three terminals (two 5 1/6 and one 3/16 front and center). I am unsure where to install the IN5400 diode. Can anyone comment on proper placement? Also, what about the diode placement on the Van's stock starter contactor? Please excuse my very "green" hands regarding electronics.learning! One of the battery contactor's large terminals should be marked "BAT". The diode's banded end connects to this terminal. The other end goes to the 3/16" terminal. This was the image of Van's starter contactor from his website. Emacs! The right small terminal is marked "I" and is not used. The left small terminal is power from the starter push button on the panel. The banded end of the diode connects to this terminal also. The other end connects to one of the contactor's mouning bolts which is also airframe ground. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) --------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.