Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:46 AM - Re: Time for a new PC 680 ? (DeWitt Whittington)
2. 08:50 AM - Re: Time for a new PC 680 ? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
3. 09:26 AM - Re: Time for a new PC 680 ? (Roger)
4. 10:12 AM - Two Alternators, one Ammeter? (Brooks Wolfe)
5. 10:19 AM - Re: Time for a new PC 680 ? (Byron Janzen)
6. 12:10 PM - Non WAAS GNS-430 Trades (SteinAir, Inc.)
7. 12:40 PM - Re: Two Alternators, one Ammeter? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 12:57 PM - Re: Time for a new PC 680 ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 01:17 PM - Battery Maintainer (Bruce Bell)
10. 07:22 PM - Re: Battery Maintainer (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Time for a new PC 680 ? |
Bob, I'm confused. Have you seen the August issue
of Kitplanes and the article titled, "Are All Battery Chargers Alike?"?
Bob Fritz, who wrote the article, says the following:
"Last month we went through battery basics and
saw that different requirements translate into
different hardware. We=92d been trying to find an
approach to this subject for a couple of months
when we were contacted by Bill Woods of VDC
Electronics with an offer to assist in a piece on
battery chargers and how they relate to aviation
batteries. He was enthusiastic about a new
charger the company had developed specifically
for aviation and wanted to tell us about it.
"Sensing an opportunity for some new information,
we continued the conversation. For the sake of
objectivity we also contacted representatives at
Concord and Odyssey, and then spent the day at a
Teledyne Battery 101 class. Teledyne is the maker
of Gill batteries. It soon became apparent that
this was really two stories, one about batteries
and another about battery chargers."
"Number six (a 12248-AA-S3, Dee) is a desulfating
charger designed specifically for Odyssey 12-volt batteries...."
"Given the results (see the chart), would I
recommend the units from VDC? I=92d have to say
yes, partly in light of the dismal results
displayed by those chargers obtained at the auto
parts store, and partly because of knowledge
gained from a broad range of sources....
"Another factor in my thumbs up to the
BatteryMINDer from VDC is that it=92s the only
charger I=92ve seen that included a third wire with
a ring lug. Said lug sends a temperature reading
back to the black box and adjusts the power going
to the battery according to the temperature of
the battery. The ideal output of 13.1 volts is
valid for a battery temperature of 77=B0 F (25=B0 C).
Let the battery temp go above 125=B0 F (52=B0 C), and
serious damage will be done. So when the battery
goes above that 25=B0 C, the sensor sends a signal
that throttles back the output 28 millivolts per degree C. "
And under a photo of the five chargers he tested is the following caption:
Five chargers and four levels of performance.
Note also that the two chargers on the upper
right are from BatteryMINDer. One is labeled is
the 12248-AA-S3 for =93Odyssey type=94 batteries, and
the other is the S2, for conventional
flooded-cell batteries. These chargers are
designed for specific applications and, although
they will work on, say, your car, for the best
battery life the charger should match.
After checking with Marc Cook, Editor of
Kitplanes, he made it clear we should only
consider the 12248-AA-S3 charger for our
Eggenfellner E6 3.6L, electrically dependent
engine. That costs $189.95 from BatteryMINDers or VDC. What are your
thoughts?
Also, we are not clear how we would attached this
charger to our dual Odyssey 680 batteries. Must
we charge each one separately since apparently
there is only one temperature sensing lead? And
if we charged them together, would this charger
handle them each correctly since one could be a
year older than the other if we follow your
suggestion of replacing one battery each year?
Dee
DeWitt (Dee) Whittington
406 N Mulberry St
Richmond, VA 23220-3320
(804) 358-4333 phone and fax
SKYPE: hilltopkid
dee.whittington@gmail.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Time for a new PC 680 ? |
OK I am coming up on 3 years with my original Odyssey 680, I am completely
electrically dependant..Electronic ignitions, Fuel pumps (I don't have a me
chanical fuel pump) and I fly in IMC..I have a single battery and a backup
SD8 alternator.
I will probably do a load test on the Odyssey this year but if it gives me
decent range on min power then its not getting changed.
it spends almost all of its life on a smart charger.
Frank RV7
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr
ic-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DeWitt Whittington
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Time for a new PC 680 ?
Bob, I'm confused. Have you seen the August issue of Kitplanes and the arti
cle titled, "Are All Battery Chargers Alike?"?
Bob Fritz, who wrote the article, says the following:
"Last month we went through battery basics and saw that different requireme
nts translate into different hardware. We'd been trying to find an approach
to this subject for a couple of months when we were contacted by Bill Wood
s of VDC Electronics with an offer to assist in a piece on battery chargers
and how they relate to aviation batteries. He was enthusiastic about a new
charger the company had developed specifically for aviation and wanted to
tell us about it.
"Sensing an opportunity for some new information, we continued the conversa
tion. For the sake of objectivity we also contacted representatives at Conc
ord and Odyssey, and then spent the day at a Teledyne Battery 101 class. Te
ledyne is the maker of Gill batteries. It soon became apparent that this wa
s really two stories, one about batteries and another about battery charger
s."
"Number six (a 12248-AA-S3, Dee) is a desulfating charger designed specific
ally for Odyssey 12-volt batteries...."
"Given the results (see the chart), would I recommend the units from VDC? I
'd have to say yes, partly in light of the dismal results displayed by thos
e chargers obtained at the auto parts store, and partly because of knowledg
e gained from a broad range of sources....
"Another factor in my thumbs up to the BatteryMINDer from VDC is that it's
the only charger I've seen that included a third wire with a ring lug. Said
lug sends a temperature reading back to the black box and adjusts the powe
r going to the battery according to the temperature of the battery. The ide
al output of 13.1 volts is valid for a battery temperature of 77=B0 F (25
=B0 C). Let the battery temp go above 125=B0 F (52=B0 C), and serious damag
e will be done. So when the battery goes above that 25=B0 C, the sensor sen
ds a signal that throttles back the output 28 millivolts per degree C. "
And under a photo of the five chargers he tested is the following caption:
Five chargers and four levels of performance. Note also that the two charge
rs on the upper right are from BatteryMINDer. One is labeled is the 12248-A
A-S3 for "Odyssey type" batteries, and the other is the S2, for conventiona
l flooded-cell batteries. These chargers are designed for specific applicat
ions and, although they will work on, say, your car, for the best battery l
ife the charger should match.
After checking with Marc Cook, Editor of Kitplanes, he made it clear we sho
uld only consider the 12248-AA-S3 charger for our Eggenfellner E6 3.6L, ele
ctrically dependent engine. That costs $189.95 from BatteryMINDers or VDC.
What are your thoughts?
Also, we are not clear how we would attached this charger to our dual Odyss
ey 680 batteries. Must we charge each one separately since apparently there
is only one temperature sensing lead? And if we charged them together, wou
ld this charger handle them each correctly since one could be a year older
than the other if we follow your suggestion of replacing one battery each y
ear?
Dee
DeWitt (Dee) Whittington
406 N Mulberry St
Richmond, VA 23220-3320
(804) 358-4333 phone and fax
SKYPE: hilltopkid
dee.whittington@gmail.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Time for a new PC 680 ? |
Bob, I'm confused. Have you seen the August issue of Kitplanes and the
article titled, "Are All Battery Chargers Alike?"?
Bob Fritz, who wrote the article, says the following:
"Last month we went through battery basics and saw that different
requirements translate into different hardware. We'd been trying to find
an approach to this subject for a couple of months when we were
contacted by Bill Woods of VDC Electronics with an offer to assist in a
piece on battery chargers and how they relate to aviation batteries. He
was enthusiastic about a new charger the company had developed
specifically for aviation and wanted to tell us about it.
"Sensing an opportunity for some new information, we continued the
conversation. For the sake of objectivity we also contacted
representatives at Concord and Odyssey, and then spent the day at a
Teledyne Battery 101 class. Teledyne is the maker of Gill batteries. It
soon became apparent that this was really two stories, one about
batteries and another about battery chargers."
"Number six (a 12248-AA-S3, Dee) is a desulfating charger designed
specifically for Odyssey 12-volt batteries...."
"Given the results (see the chart), would I recommend the units from
VDC? I'd have to say yes, partly in light of the dismal results
displayed by those chargers obtained at the auto parts store, and partly
because of knowledge gained from a broad range of sources....
"Another factor in my thumbs up to the BatteryMINDer from VDC is
that it's the only charger I've seen that included a third wire with a
ring lug. Said lug sends a temperature reading back to the black box and
adjusts the power going to the battery according to the temperature of
the battery. The ideal output of 13.1 volts is valid for a battery
temperature of 77=B0 F (25=B0 C). Let the battery temp go above 125=B0 F
(52=B0 C), and serious damage will be done. So when the battery goes
above that 25=B0 C, the sensor sends a signal that throttles back the
output 28 millivolts per degree C. "
And under a photo of the five chargers he tested is the following
caption:
Five chargers and four levels of performance. Note also that the two
chargers on the upper right are from BatteryMINDer. One is labeled is
the 12248-AA-S3 for "Odyssey type" batteries, and the other is the S2,
for conventional flooded-cell batteries. These chargers are designed for
specific applications and, although they will work on, say, your car,
for the best battery life the charger should match.
After checking with Marc Cook, Editor of Kitplanes, he made it clear
we should only consider the 12248-AA-S3 charger for our Eggenfellner E6
3.6L, electrically dependent engine. That costs $189.95 from
BatteryMINDers or VDC. What are your thoughts?
There may be some very minor advantage to this super intelligent
temperature monitoring charger but... Think of where your battery
resides most of the time. It is in your airplane, enduring wide
temperature swings, and tied to your electrical system. Do you suppose
that there is this much monitoring of the temp and the input and
output currents to your battery, while in your plane?? I think NOT, in
about 99% of the aircraft. The little Schumacher battery charger /
maintainer is much more gentle than any aircraft electrical
system when connected to your battery. If you are going to spend
$185 for a charger then maybe you want to look into better control and
monitoring of the battery in the aircraft. Proper battery
maintenance and regular interval load testing is always necessary,
especially in an all electric aircraft. You may get a slitely
longer interval between battery replacements, by investing in a "super
gee whizz whow" charger, but is it worth it? Roger
Message 4
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| Subject: | Two Alternators, one Ammeter? |
I found this in the archives, from December of 2002:
>Also, I'm thinking about using a DPDT
>switch for the aux alt and using the xtra set of terminals to switch the
>ammeter so I don't need two ammeters--what do you think?
>
> It would need to be a three pole switch. You need to switch
> ammeter leads as pairs . . . but what you propose would work.
Which switch would you recommend for this purpose?
Brooks
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Time for a new PC 680 ? |
This, about Batteryminder, is interesting too:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=41000
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:23 AM, Roger <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> Bob, I'm confused. Have you seen the August issue of Kitplanes and the
> article titled, "Are All Battery Chargers Alike?"?
>
> Bob Fritz, who wrote the article, says the following:
>
> "Last month we went through battery basics and saw that different
> requirements translate into different hardware. We=92d been trying to fin
d an
> approach to this subject for a couple of months when we were contacted by
> Bill Woods of VDC Electronics with an offer to assist in a piece on batte
ry
> chargers and how they relate to aviation batteries. He was enthusiastic
> about a new charger the company had developed specifically for aviation a
nd
> wanted to tell us about it.
> "Sensing an opportunity for some new information, we continued the
> conversation. For the sake of objectivity we also contacted representativ
es
> at Concord and Odyssey, and then spent the day at a Teledyne Battery 101
> class. Teledyne is the maker of Gill batteries. It soon became apparent t
hat
> this was really two stories, one about batteries and another about batter
y
> chargers."
>
> "Number six (a 12248-AA-S3, Dee) is a desulfating charger designed
> specifically for Odyssey 12-volt batteries...."
>
> "Given the results (see the chart), would I recommend the units from VDC?
> I=92d have to say yes, partly in light of the dismal results displayed by
> those chargers obtained at the auto parts store, and partly because of
> knowledge gained from a broad range of sources....
>
> "Another factor in my thumbs up to the BatteryMINDer from VDC is that it
=92s
> the only charger I=92ve seen that included a third wire with a ring lug.
Said
> lug sends a temperature reading back to the black box and adjusts the pow
er
> going to the battery according to the temperature of the battery. The ide
al
> output of 13.1 volts is valid for a battery temperature of 77=B0 F (25=B0
C).
> Let the battery temp go above 125=B0 F (52=B0 C), and serious damage will
be
> done. So when the battery goes above that 25=B0 C, the sensor sends a sig
nal
> that throttles back the output 28 millivolts per degree C. "
>
> And under a photo of the five chargers he tested is the following caption
:
>
> Five chargers and four levels of performance. Note also that the two
> chargers on the upper right are from BatteryMINDer. One is labeled is the
> *12248-AA-S3* for =93Odyssey type=94 batteries, and the other is the S2,
for
> conventional flooded-cell batteries. These chargers are designed for
> specific applications and, although they will work on, say, your car, for
> the best battery life the charger should match. After checking with Marc
> Cook, Editor of Kitplanes, he made it clear we should only consider the
> 12248-AA-S3 charger for our Eggenfellner E6 3.6L, electrically dependent
> engine. That costs $189.95 from BatteryMINDers or VDC. What are your
> thoughts?
>
> **
>
> There may be some very minor advantage to this super intelligent
temperature monitoring charger but... Think of where your battery resides
most of the time.
> It is in your airplane, enduring wide temperature swings, and tie
d to your electrical system. Do you suppose that there is this much monito
ring of the temp
> and the input and output currents to your battery, while in your
plane?? I think NOT, in about 99% of the aircraft. The little Schumacher
battery charger / maintainer
> is much more gentle than any aircraft electrical system when conn
ected to your battery.
>
> If you are going to spend $185 for a charger then maybe you want
to look into better control and monitoring of the battery in the aircraft.
>
> Proper battery maintenance and regular interval load testing is a
lways necessary, especially in an all electric aircraft.
> You may get a slitely longer interval between battery replacement
s, by investing in a "super gee whizz whow" charger, but is it worth it?
>
> Roger
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Non WAAS GNS-430 Trades |
Hi All,
One last note to see if there are any of you floating around out there with
Non WAAS GNS-430's that have zero flight time on them.... A number of you
had responded to my last note about a month or so ago, but my customer still
wants more so I'm checking again. Here's the deal:
I need GNS-430's that are either new in the box, or installed but NEVER
flown (zero flight time). If you have one, we'll trade you a brand spankin
new GNS-430W for your efforts. It sounds to good to be true, but it's not.
One of my customers is a major military contractor who got themselves into a
pickle with a certain project and ended up short on the 430's. The have to
be Non WAAS because they are in Europe, and they need to match the rest of
the fleet.
If you have one, please contact me off list ASAP. I'm sorry but we can't
use "almost new" or "as good as new" or "only one flight" units, they have
to be new never used.
Thanks and have a great week,
Stein
do not archive
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Two Alternators, one Ammeter? |
At 12:10 PM 8/5/2009, you wrote:
><slipstream@wavecable.com>
>
>I found this in the archives, from December of 2002:
>
> >Also, I'm thinking about using a DPDT
> >switch for the aux alt and using the xtra set of terminals to switch the
> >ammeter so I don't need two ammeters--what do you think?
> >
> > It would need to be a three pole switch. You need to switch
> > ammeter leads as pairs . . . but what you propose would work.
>
>Which switch would you recommend for this purpose?
See page 3 of
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9007/AEC9007-700.pdf
ANY two pole, double throw would work. Consider
a miniature toggle like
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=CKN1035-ND
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Time for a new PC 680 ? |
>
>
>Bob, I'm confused. Have you seen the August issue of Kitplanes and
>the article titled, "Are All Battery Chargers Alike?"?
>
>Bob Fritz, who wrote the article, says the following:
>
>"Last month we went through battery basics and saw that different
>requirements translate into different hardware.
<snip>
> There may be some very minor advantage to this super
> intelligent temperature monitoring charger but... Think of where
> your battery resides most of the time.
>
>
> It is in your airplane, enduring wide temperature swings,
> and tied to your electrical system. Do you suppose that there is
> this much monitoring of the temp
>
> and the input and output currents to your battery, while in
> your plane?? I think NOT, in about 99% of the aircraft. The
> little Schumacher battery charger / maintainer
>
>
> is much more gentle than any aircraft electrical system
> when connected to your battery.
>
>
> If you are going to spend $185 for a charger then maybe you
> want to look into better control and monitoring of the battery in the aircraft.
>
>
> Proper battery maintenance and regular interval load
> testing is always necessary, especially in an all electric aircraft.
>
>
> You may get a slitely longer interval between battery
> replacements, by investing in a "super gee whizz whow" charger, but
> is it worth it?
>
ABSOLUTELY! It's interesting to source the constellation of "requirements"
tossed about with so much allusion to practical significance. This
"Odyssey versus the charger world" battle has been raging for some years.
Arguments have bounced around like ping-pong balls in box rolling
down hill.
I have yet to see the results of any repeatable experiments
that demonstrate a positive return on investment for having
$purchased$ any "super-charger" combined with the $time$ needed
to apply it to practical management of a battery in an airplane
of any size but in particular, an RV8.
I'm working on a IR&D project for a new lead acid battery that
shows great promise for increased performance, lighter weight
and longer life. However, this isn't going to hit the market
as an inexpensive battery. Quite the contrary. This is why
we're mulling over ideas for optimized maintenance tools to
built right into the battery itself. The formula that evaluates
return on investment has a lot of variables that are themselves
somewhat ethereal. It's not easy.
In the mean time, the infomercials are in constant
competition for your attention, time and money.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Battery Maintainer |
Hi Bob,
What is your take on the Schumacher SEM-1562A battery Maintainer for gel
cell batteries. I have two 17 amp gel cells from B&C in my RV-4. Wired to
your spec's and NO electrical problems at all!
Best regards, Bruce Bell, RV-4 N23BB, 75 hours.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Maintainer |
At 03:14 PM 8/5/2009, you wrote:
><brucebell74@sbcglobal.net>
>
>Hi Bob,
>What is your take on the Schumacher SEM-1562A battery Maintainer for
>gel cell batteries. I have two 17 amp gel cells from B&C in my RV-4.
>Wired to your spec's and NO electrical problems at all!
>Best regards, Bruce Bell, RV-4 N23BB, 75 hours.
That series of maintainers are among those I've
tested for entirely adequate performance for both
charging (slow) and leaving hooked up forever
in the maintenance mode. At $20 or so at Walmart,
it's the best value out there right now.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
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