AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sat 08/08/09


Total Messages Posted: 16



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:10 AM - Coil & ECM (rer51)
     2. 05:18 AM - Re: Radio noises (Rodney Dunham)
     3. 07:08 AM - Re: Radio noises (James H Nelson)
     4. 07:56 AM - Wisdom from Military Manuals, etc. (Joe Ronco)
     5. 07:59 AM - Re: Magneto Wiring with 2-50 switches and toggle switch starting (messydeer)
     6. 08:21 AM - Re: Radio noises (z747pilot)
     7. 12:48 PM - Re: Check this out (Ernest Christley)
     8. 01:44 PM - Re: Check this out (Terry Watson)
     9. 02:40 PM - Re: Check this out (Richard Girard)
    10. 04:01 PM - Re: Check this out (Ray)
    11. 05:05 PM - Re: Radio noises (James Robinson)
    12. 05:08 PM - Re: Check this out (S. Ramirez)
    13. 05:37 PM - Re: Check this out (Chuck Jensen)
    14. 06:10 PM - ANL Current limiters (Bob Collins)
    15. 06:40 PM - Castaways! (Rodney Dunham)
    16. 06:51 PM - Check this out (jaybannist@cs.com)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:10:30 AM PST US
    From: "rer51" <rer51@netscape.ca>
    Subject: Coil & ECM
    Is there a method to test an ignition coil and ECM? I thought the answer might lie with the electric gurus. Randy R.


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:18:41 AM PST US
    From: Rodney Dunham <rdunhamtn@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Radio noises
    Jeff=2C Just my $0.02 worth but... I think your friend suffers from what I consider to be the most common caus e of dissatisfaction with VHF COMM performance in OBAM aircraft... unrealis tic expectations! With all due respect=2C gentlemen... If the AM background noise is the same during flight as it is on the ground with the engine off=2C that's as good as it gets. If=2C while on the ground with the belly mounted antenna inches from the gr ound and upward radiation blocked by the aircraft itself=2C you can clearly understand ATC=2C ATIS and another plane 12 miles away=2C that's as good a s it gets. The directionality of the "static" and the transmit is not curious at all. All antennae=2C except "ideal" antennae of urban legend=2C produce a signal strength pattern that is lobular. That is=2C the radio "reaches out" more (or less) in certain directions than others. With the antenna on the belly =2C there are numerous metallic objects nearby=2C like gear legs=2C that se rve to produce sometimes dramatic and unpredictable signal strength lobes. So=2C once again=2C that's as good as it gets. Not sure on this one but... The fact that you can hear ATIS without an ante nna just serves to underscore how good your radio is(!) and how close you a re to the ATIS antenna. Bob has mentioned on this forum that we should not obsess over dimensions of marker beacon antennae because the MB signal is s o strong and we're flying just dozens of yards over the thing that we'll ge t the info anyway. This is a similar situation I suspect. Again=2C if you guys can communicate "very clearly" from 20 miles apart=2C that's as good as it gets. "Ideas what should be done next?" Bolt it down=2C adjust the squelch and st art punching holes in the sky! Enjoy. Rodney in Tennessee Unabashed Nuckollhead Standard Disclaimer: I'm no avionics engineer. But=2C I plan on staying in a Holiday Inn Express next month at the American Sonex Association Fly-in i n Crossville=2C TN. _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail=AE . http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=PID233 91::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_express:082009


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:08:18 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Radio noises
    From: James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com>
    Rodney, Well put. I held a Ham ticket for years and all you have said is "right on". Of course, Jeff could put an antenna on top (ugly but better transmitting patterns). Jim ____________________________________________________________ Explore Africa with a luxurious safari vacation. Click now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTMxow2h7zFqMlJCZffBM55kmWlfoRr0VbOHlIaGCAWWhX6g1pQlUk/


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:56:48 AM PST US
    From: "Joe Ronco" <joe@halzel.com>
    Subject: Wisdom from Military Manuals, etc.
    A little humor since laughter is the best medicine!!! Wit and Wisdom from Military Manuals, etc. "A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of your unit." - Army's magazine of preventive maintenance. --------------------------------------------------- "Aim towards the Enemy" - Instructions printed on U.S. Rocket Launcher --------------------------------------------------- "When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend." - U.S. Marine Corps --------------------------------------------------- "Cluster bombing from B-52s is very, very accurate. The bombs are guaranteed always to hit the ground." - USAF Ammo Troop --------------------------------------------------- "If the Enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal --------------------------------------------------- "It is generally inadvisable to eject over the area you just bombed" - U.S. Air Force Manual --------------------------------------------------- "Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons." - General MacArthur --------------------------------------------------- "Try to look unimportant; they may be low on ammo." - Infantry Journal --------------------------------------------------- "You, you, and you. Panic. The rest of you come with me." - U.S. Marine Gunnery Sgt. (Mgysgt5) ---------------------------------------------------- "Tracers work both ways." - U.S. Army Ordnance ---------------------------------------------------- "Five second fuses only last three seconds" - Infantry Journal ---------------------------------------------------- "Don't ever be the first, don't ever be the last, and don't ever volunteer to do anything.." - U.S. Navy Swabbie ---------------------------------------------------- "Bravery is being the only one who knows you're afraid." - David Hackworth ----------------------------------------------------- "If your attack is going too well, you're walking into an ambush." - Infantry Journal ----------------------------------------------------- "No combat-ready unit has ever passed inspection." - Joe Gay ------------------------------------------------------ "Any ship can be a minesweeper. Once." - unknown ------------------------------------------------------ "Never tell the Platoon Sergeant you have nothing to do." - Unknown Marine Recruit ------------------------------------------------------- "Don't draw fire; it irritates the people around you." ------------------------------------------------------- "If you see a bomb technician running, follow him and try to keep up." - USAF Ammo Troop ------------------------------------------------------- "You've never been lost until you've been lost at Mach 3." - Paul F. Crickmore (test pilot) ------------------------------------------------------- "The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire." ------------------------------------------------------- "Blue water Navy truism: There are more planes in the ocean than submarines in the sky." - From an old carrier sailor ------------------------------------------------------ "If the wings are traveling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter -- and therefore, unsafe." ------------------------------------------------------- "When one engine fails on a twin-engine airplane, you always have enough power left to get you to the scene of the crash." ------------------------------------------------------- "Without munitions, the USAF would be just another expensive flying club." ------------------------------------------------------- "What is the similarity between air traffic controllers and pilots? If a pilot screws up, the pilot dies; If ATC screws up....The pilot dies." ------------------------------------------------------- "Never trade luck for skill." ------------------------------------------------------- The three most common expressions (or famous last words) in aviation are: "Why is it doing that?", "Where are we?" And "Oh S...!" ------------------------------------------------------ "Weather forecasts are horoscopes with numbers." ------------------------------------------------------- "Airspeed, altitude and brains. Two are always needed to complete the flight successfully." ------------------------------------------------------- "Mankind has a perfect record in aviation; we've never left one up there!" ------------------------------------------------------- "Flashlights are tubular metal containers kept in a flight bag to store dead batteries." ------------------------------------------------------- "Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your flight to a person on the ground who is incapable of understanding or doing anything about it." -------------------------------------------------------- "The Piper Cub is the safest airplane in the world; it can just barely kill you." - Attributed to Max Stanley (Northrop test pilot) -------------------------------------------------------- "A pilot who doesn't have any fear probably isn't flying his plane to its maximum." - Jon McBride, astronaut -------------------------------------------------------- "If you're faced with a forced landing, fly the thing as far into the crash as possible. " - Bob Hoover (renowned aerobatic and test pilot) -------------------------------------------------------- "Never fly in the same cockpit with someone braver than you." ------------------------------------------------------- "There is no reason to fly through a thunderstorm in peacetime." - Sign over squadron ops desk at Davis-Monthan AFB, AZ, 1970 --------------------------------------------------------- "If something hasn't broken on your helicopter, it's about to." -------------------------------------------------------- Basic Flying Rules: "Try to stay in the middle of the air. Do not go near the edges of it. The edges of the air can be recognized by the appearance of ground, buildings, sea, trees and interstellar space. It is much more difficult to fly there." ------------------------------------------------------- "You know that your landing gear is up and locked when it takes full power to taxi to the terminal." -------------------------------------------------------------- As the test pilot climbs out of the experimental aircraft, having torn off the wings and tail in the crash landing, the crash truck arrives, the rescuer sees a bloodied pilot and asks, "What happened?". The pilot's reply, "I don't know, I just got here myself!"


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:59:46 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Magneto Wiring with 2-50 switches and toggle switch
    starting
    From: "messydeer" <messydeer@yahoo.com>
    > I do have one big question that came up while I was copying the mag drawings from Z-20. The right mag is shown wired to the switch differently than the left. I don't know why it is shown like that. Mystery solved. Ian sent me a version "L" of Z-20, which shows the mag switch wires being identical. I looked through both the rev. 12 and PPS on Bob's site and it showed "K" as the current version of the PDF. But then I went to the .dwg files and sure enough, there was version "L". -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256646#256646


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:21:31 AM PST US
    From: "z747pilot" <z747pilot@verizon.net>
    Subject: Radio noises
    Hey Flyers, A small formula here that may help you out: take the Square root of the antennea hight (aircraft hight) and multiply it by 2.23 and this should give you a rough idea of your VHF range. Regards, z747pilot _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rodney Dunham Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:12 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Radio noises Jeff, Just my $0.02 worth but... I think your friend suffers from what I consider to be the most common cause of dissatisfaction with VHF COMM performance in OBAM aircraft... unrealistic expectations! With all due respect, gentlemen... If the AM background noise is the same during flight as it is on the ground with the engine off, that's as good as it gets. If, while on the ground with the belly mounted antenna inches from the ground and upward radiation blocked by the aircraft itself, you can clearly understand ATC, ATIS and another plane 12 miles away, that's as good as it gets. The directionality of the "static" and the transmit is not curious at all. All antennae, except "ideal" antennae of urban legend, produce a signal strength pattern that is lobular. That is, the radio "reaches out" more (or less) in certain directions than others. With the antenna on the belly, there are numerous metallic objects nearby, like gear legs, that serve to produce sometimes dramatic and unpredictable signal strength lobes. So, once again, that's as good as it gets. Not sure on this one but... The fact that you can hear ATIS without an antenna just serves to underscore how good your radio is(!) and how close you are to the ATIS antenna. Bob has mentioned on this forum that we should not obsess over dimensions of marker beacon antennae because the MB signal is so strong and we're flying just dozens of yards over the thing that we'll get the info anyway. This is a similar situation I suspect. Again, if you guys can communicate "very clearly" from 20 miles apart, that's as good as it gets. "Ideas what should be done next?" Bolt it down, adjust the squelch and start punching holes in the sky! Enjoy. Rodney in Tennessee Unabashed Nuckollhead Standard Disclaimer: I'm no avionics engineer. But, I plan on staying in a Holiday Inn Express next month at the American Sonex Association Fly-in in Crossville, TN. _____ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for HotmailR. Try it now. <http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=PID23391 ::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_express:082009>


    Message 7


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    Time: 12:48:44 PM PST US
    From: Ernest Christley <echristley@nc.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Check this out
    Terry Watson wrote: > > My suggestion about a very large contributing factor to this problem is that > so few of us are raised on a farm or ranch anymore. Any farm kid learns that > if something needs doing, you need to be able to do it; when something > breaks, you need to be able to fix it. To eat, you need to plant seeds and > assure their growth, or to be willing to slaughter an animal you have known > all its life. I don't know how you translate this into an urban lifestyle > where we may be many layers away from the source of what we want or need, > but it's a great loss if we can't do it. Maybe it's just teaching kids the > joy of working with their head AND their hands at the same time, or the > satisfaction of playing with or living in or riding in or flying in > something they built with their own hands. > Nawh, living on a farm is orthogonal. A child just has to grow up without being handed everything he wants. He has to learn to WANT things. Then he has to learn that things can be had from one's own hands. I grew up poor. Not Ethiopian starvation poor, but if I wanted a bicycle I had to learn to build it from spare parts that I got from castaways. I learned to build a bicycle from castaways. I'm no longer poor by any reasonable definition, but I still can't afford a certified airplane. If I want one, I have to learn to build it myself. We'll see in a year or so what sort of student I am. -- Ernest Christley, President Ernest@TechnicalTakedown.com TechnicalTakedown, LLC www.TechnicalTakedown.com 101 Steep Bank Dr. Cary, NC 27518 (919) 741-9397


    Message 8


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    Time: 01:44:50 PM PST US
    From: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
    Subject: Check this out
    I will confess to a strong possibility of prejudice based on my own experience growing up on a farm, but I don't understand the use of the word "orthogonal" in this context. I understand and agree that growing up poor is a strong motivation to do things for ones self. I did run across an interesting book that I think is on the very subject Bob was talking about. I downloaded and read the free sample on my Kindle and will probably buy and read the book. As an aside, I have discovered the book reviews on Amazon.com to be a fascinating source of discovery. It's a little like wandering through a library and sampling books, but all from your own computer and with in many cases dozens of thoughtful reviews of the book. This particular book is SHOP CLASS AS SOULCRAFT by Matthew B. Crawford. I think Bob in particular would find it pertinent to his ideas. The link to the book is: http://tinyurl.com/nrybq5 Terry -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Christley Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 12:47 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check this out <echristley@nc.rr.com> Terry Watson wrote: <terry@tcwatson.com> > > My suggestion about a very large contributing factor to this problem is that > so few of us are raised on a farm or ranch anymore. Any farm kid learns that > if something needs doing, you need to be able to do it; when something > breaks, you need to be able to fix it. To eat, you need to plant seeds and > assure their growth, or to be willing to slaughter an animal you have known > all its life. I don't know how you translate this into an urban lifestyle > where we may be many layers away from the source of what we want or need, > but it's a great loss if we can't do it. Maybe it's just teaching kids the > joy of working with their head AND their hands at the same time, or the > satisfaction of playing with or living in or riding in or flying in > something they built with their own hands. > Nawh, living on a farm is orthogonal. A child just has to grow up without being handed everything he wants. He has to learn to WANT things. Then he has to learn that things can be had from one's own hands. I grew up poor. Not Ethiopian starvation poor, but if I wanted a bicycle I had to learn to build it from spare parts that I got from castaways. I learned to build a bicycle from castaways. I'm no longer poor by any reasonable definition, but I still can't afford a certified airplane. If I want one, I have to learn to build it myself. We'll see in a year or so what sort of student I am. -- Ernest Christley, President Ernest@TechnicalTakedown.com TechnicalTakedown, LLC www.TechnicalTakedown.com 101 Steep Bank Dr. Cary, NC 27518 (919) 741-9397


    Message 9


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    Time: 02:40:12 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Check this out
    From: Richard Girard <jindoguy@gmail.com>
    When my son was in his high school in the suburbs of Seattle, Washington was busy getting rid of all it's shop classes. When we complained, the school principal replied that all kids would be educated to go to college and if they wanted to get into trades they could go to an industrial arts school afterward. This was when all the "experts" said we were going to be an "information economy". Funny thing though, no one could ever answer my question as to what that information would be? The latest "star"? The latest trivia? We certainly wouldn't have any information about making things. And now we don't make so much anymore. Maybe we can sell information about how to ruin an economy by surrendering it to bankers and financiers.MHO. Rick Girard do not archive On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Terry Watson <terry@tcwatson.com> wrote: > terry@tcwatson.com> > > I will confess to a strong possibility of prejudice based on my own > experience growing up on a farm, but I don't understand the use of the word > "orthogonal" in this context. I understand and agree that growing up poor > is > a strong motivation to do things for ones self. I did run across an > interesting book that I think is on the very subject Bob was talking about. > I downloaded and read the free sample on my Kindle and will probably buy > and > read the book. As an aside, I have discovered the book reviews on > Amazon.com > to be a fascinating source of discovery. It's a little like wandering > through a library and sampling books, but all from your own computer and > with in many cases dozens of thoughtful reviews of the book. This > particular > book is SHOP CLASS AS SOULCRAFT by Matthew B. Crawford. I think Bob in > particular would find it pertinent to his ideas. The link to the book is: > http://tinyurl.com/nrybq5 > > Terry > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest > Christley > Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 12:47 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check this out > > <echristley@nc.rr.com> > > Terry Watson wrote: > <terry@tcwatson.com> > > > > My suggestion about a very large contributing factor to this problem is > that > > so few of us are raised on a farm or ranch anymore. Any farm kid learns > that > > if something needs doing, you need to be able to do it; when something > > breaks, you need to be able to fix it. To eat, you need to plant seeds > and > > assure their growth, or to be willing to slaughter an animal you have > known > > all its life. I don't know how you translate this into an urban lifestyle > > where we may be many layers away from the source of what we want or need, > > but it's a great loss if we can't do it. Maybe it's just teaching kids > the > > joy of working with their head AND their hands at the same time, or the > > satisfaction of playing with or living in or riding in or flying in > > something they built with their own hands. > > > Nawh, living on a farm is orthogonal. A child just has to grow up > without being handed everything he wants. He has to learn to WANT > things. Then he has to learn that things can be had from one's own hands. > > I grew up poor. Not Ethiopian starvation poor, but if I wanted a > bicycle I had to learn to build it from spare parts that I got from > castaways. I learned to build a bicycle from castaways. I'm no longer > poor by any reasonable definition, but I still can't afford a certified > airplane. If I want one, I have to learn to build it myself. We'll see > in a year or so what sort of student I am. > > -- > Ernest Christley, President > Ernest@TechnicalTakedown.com > > TechnicalTakedown, LLC > www.TechnicalTakedown.com > 101 Steep Bank Dr. > Cary, NC 27518 > (919) 741-9397 > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 04:01:40 PM PST US
    From: Ray <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: Check this out
    I think a part of it is the curiosity about how things work. I know for me it was the driving force. Starting at 10 or 11 living in the suburbs I kept an eye on everyone's trash on pickup day and grabbed anything I could take apart. (Mom always worried about the electrical things) Another great source was things at garage sales. Many times I bought things that were broken so I could disassemble them to see how they worked. The next thing was tinkering. I don't know how to instill this kind of curiosity in kids, I don't know where I got it. I have always tried to provide opportunities for the youth I have come in contact with take things apart, whether on not they could put them together again later. Just my experience. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN Richard Girard wrote: > When my son was in his high school in the suburbs of Seattle, Washington > was busy getting rid of all it's shop classes. When we complained, the > school principal replied that all kids would be educated to go to > college and if they wanted to get into trades they could go to an > industrial arts school afterward. This was when all the "experts" said > we were going to be an "information economy". Funny thing though, no one > could ever answer my question as to what that information would be? The > latest "star"? The latest trivia? We certainly wouldn't have any > information about making things. And now we don't make so much anymore. > Maybe we can sell information about how to ruin an economy by > surrendering it to bankers and financiers. > MHO. > > Rick Girard > do not archive > > On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Terry Watson <terry@tcwatson.com > <mailto:terry@tcwatson.com>> wrote: > > <terry@tcwatson.com <mailto:terry@tcwatson.com>> > > I will confess to a strong possibility of prejudice based on my own > experience growing up on a farm, but I don't understand the use of > the word > "orthogonal" in this context. I understand and agree that growing up > poor is > a strong motivation to do things for ones self. I did run across an > interesting book that I think is on the very subject Bob was talking > about. > I downloaded and read the free sample on my Kindle and will probably > buy and > read the book. As an aside, I have discovered the book reviews on > Amazon.com > to be a fascinating source of discovery. It's a little like wandering > through a library and sampling books, but all from your own computer and > with in many cases dozens of thoughtful reviews of the book. This > particular > book is SHOP CLASS AS SOULCRAFT by Matthew B. Crawford. I think Bob in > particular would find it pertinent to his ideas. The link to the > book is: > http://tinyurl.com/nrybq5 > > Terry > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of > Ernest > Christley > Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 12:47 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check this out > > <echristley@nc.rr.com <mailto:echristley@nc.rr.com>> > > Terry Watson wrote: > <terry@tcwatson.com <mailto:terry@tcwatson.com>> > > > > My suggestion about a very large contributing factor to this > problem is > that > > so few of us are raised on a farm or ranch anymore. Any farm kid > learns > that > > if something needs doing, you need to be able to do it; when > something > > breaks, you need to be able to fix it. To eat, you need to plant > seeds and > > assure their growth, or to be willing to slaughter an animal you have > known > > all its life. I don't know how you translate this into an urban > lifestyle > > where we may be many layers away from the source of what we want > or need, > > but it's a great loss if we can't do it. Maybe it's just teaching > kids the > > joy of working with their head AND their hands at the same time, > or the > > satisfaction of playing with or living in or riding in or flying in > > something they built with their own hands. > > > Nawh, living on a farm is orthogonal. A child just has to grow up > without being handed everything he wants. He has to learn to WANT > things. Then he has to learn that things can be had from one's own > hands. > > I grew up poor. Not Ethiopian starvation poor, but if I wanted a > bicycle I had to learn to build it from spare parts that I got from > castaways. I learned to build a bicycle from castaways. I'm no longer > poor by any reasonable definition, but I still can't afford a certified > airplane. If I want one, I have to learn to build it myself. We'll see > in a year or so what sort of student I am. > > -- > Ernest Christley, President > Ernest@TechnicalTakedown.com > > TechnicalTakedown, LLC > www.TechnicalTakedown.com <http://www.TechnicalTakedown.com> > 101 Steep Bank Dr. > Cary, NC 27518 > (919) 741-9397 > > > > > > > > > ========== > -List" > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > > > * > > > *


    Message 11


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    Time: 05:05:38 PM PST US
    From: James Robinson <jbr79r@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Radio noises
    I'm a little confused with the formula you proposed for simplicity lets say the antenna height is at 9 feet above ground sq root of 9=3x2.23 = 6.69? ( feet , meters inches miles???)=0A=0A James Robinson=0AGlasair lll N79R=0ASpanish Fork UT U77=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________ =0AFrom: z747pilot <z747pilot@verizon.net>=0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matronic s.com=0ASent: Saturday, August 8, 2009 8:19:11 AM=0ASubject: RE: AeroElectr ic-List: Radio noises=0A=0A =0AHey Flyers,=0A =0AA small formula here that may help you out: take the Square root of =0Athe antennea hight (aircraft h ight) and multiply it by 2.23 and this should give =0Ayou a rough idea of y our VHF range.=0A =0ARegards,=0A =0Az747pilot=0A=0A=0A_____________________ ___________=0A From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com =0A[mailt o:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rodney =0ADunh am=0ASent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:12 AM=0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matron ics.com=0ASubject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Radio =0Anoises=0A=0AJeff,=0A=0AJ ust my $0.02 worth but...=0A=0AI think your friend =0Asuffers from what I c onsider to be the most common cause of dissatisfaction with =0AVHF COMM per formance in OBAM aircraft... unrealistic expectations!=0A=0AWith =0Aall due respect, gentlemen...=0A=0AIf the AM background noise is the same =0Adurin g flight as it is on the ground with the engine off, that's as good as it =0Agets.=0A=0AIf, while on the ground with the belly mounted antenna inches from =0Athe ground and upward radiation blocked by the aircraft itself, yo u can clearly =0Aunderstand ATC, ATIS and another plane 12 miles away, that 's as good as it =0Agets.=0A=0AThe directionality of the "static" and the t ransmit is not curious =0Aat all. All antennae, except "ideal" antennae of urban legend, produce a signal =0Astrength pattern that is lobular. That is , the radio "reaches out" more (or =0Aless) in certain directions than othe rs. With the antenna on the belly, there =0Aare numerous metallic objects n earby, like gear legs, that serve to produce =0Asometimes dramatic and unpr edictable signal strength lobes. So, once again, =0Athat's as good as it ge ts.=0A=0ANot sure on this one but... The fact that you =0Acan hear ATIS wit hout an antenna just serves to underscore how good your radio =0Ais(!) and how close you are to the ATIS antenna. Bob has mentioned on this forum =0At hat we should not obsess over dimensions of marker beacon antennae because the =0AMB signal is so strong and we're flying just dozens of yards over th e thing that =0Awe'll get the info anyway. This is a similar situation I su spect.=0A=0AAgain, =0Aif you guys can communicate "very clearly" from 20 mi les apart, that's as good =0Aas it gets.=0A=0A"Ideas what should be done ne xt?" Bolt it down, adjust the =0Asquelch and start punching holes in the sk y!=0A=0AEnjoy.=0A=0ARodney in =0ATennessee=0AUnabashed Nuckollhead=0A=0ASta ndard Disclaimer: I'm no avionics =0Aengineer. But, I plan on staying in a Holiday Inn Express next month at the =0AAmerican Sonex Association Fly-in in Crossville, TN.=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A Express y our personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail=AE. Try it now. =0A=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List" >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-Listhref="http://forums. matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.c ===========


    Message 12


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    Time: 05:08:31 PM PST US
    From: "S. Ramirez" <simon@synchdes.com>
    Subject: Check this out
    What this says, Rick, is that once our business experts and leaders realize that a great country cannot be great without manufacturing, they will attempt to restart manufacturing, but we won't have qualified machinists and other similar craftsman/tradesmen to do it. We will have to import this technology and expertise, thus creating a whole new problem. It's too bad that our present leaders were and are trained in MBA schools to maximize this quarter's bottom line and not tomorrow's. Simon Ramirez Copyright 2009 From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Girard Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 5:34 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check this out When my son was in his high school in the suburbs of Seattle, Washington was busy getting rid of all it's shop classes. When we complained, the school principal replied that all kids would be educated to go to college and if they wanted to get into trades they could go to an industrial arts school afterward. This was when all the "experts" said we were going to be an "information economy". Funny thing though, no one could ever answer my question as to what that information would be? The latest "star"? The latest trivia? We certainly wouldn't have any information about making things. And now we don't make so much anymore. Maybe we can sell information about how to ruin an economy by surrendering it to bankers and financiers. MHO. Rick Girard do not archive On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Terry Watson <terry@tcwatson.com> wrote: I will confess to a strong possibility of prejudice based on my own experience growing up on a farm, but I don't understand the use of the word "orthogonal" in this context. I understand and agree that growing up poor is a strong motivation to do things for ones self. I did run across an interesting book that I think is on the very subject Bob was talking about. I downloaded and read the free sample on my Kindle and will probably buy and read the book. As an aside, I have discovered the book reviews on Amazon.com to be a fascinating source of discovery. It's a little like wandering through a library and sampling books, but all from your own computer and with in many cases dozens of thoughtful reviews of the book. This particular book is SHOP CLASS AS SOULCRAFT by Matthew B. Crawford. I think Bob in particular would find it pertinent to his ideas. The link to the book is: http://tinyurl.com/nrybq5 Terry -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Christley Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 12:47 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check this out <echristley@nc.rr.com> Terry Watson wrote: <terry@tcwatson.com> > > My suggestion about a very large contributing factor to this problem is that > so few of us are raised on a farm or ranch anymore. Any farm kid learns that > if something needs doing, you need to be able to do it; when something > breaks, you need to be able to fix it. To eat, you need to plant seeds and > assure their growth, or to be willing to slaughter an animal you have known > all its life. I don't know how you translate this into an urban lifestyle > where we may be many layers away from the source of what we want or need, > but it's a great loss if we can't do it. Maybe it's just teaching kids the > joy of working with their head AND their hands at the same time, or the > satisfaction of playing with or living in or riding in or flying in > something they built with their own hands. > Nawh, living on a farm is orthogonal. A child just has to grow up without being handed everything he wants. He has to learn to WANT things. Then he has to learn that things can be had from one's own hands. I grew up poor. Not Ethiopian starvation poor, but if I wanted a bicycle I had to learn to build it from spare parts that I got from castaways. I learned to build a bicycle from castaways. I'm no longer poor by any reasonable definition, but I still can't afford a certified airplane. If I want one, I have to learn to build it myself. We'll see in a year or so what sort of student I am. -- Ernest Christley, President Ernest@TechnicalTakedown.com TechnicalTakedown, LLC www.TechnicalTakedown.com 101 Steep Bank Dr. Cary, NC 27518 (919) 741-9397 ========== -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ==========


    Message 13


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    Time: 05:37:55 PM PST US
    Subject: Check this out
    From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
    A concrete example of the impact of lost skills is building of nuclear power plants. At one point, there were 40-50 new plants, on paper, to be built over the next 15 years---which was laughable; impossible. TVA recently was refurbishing one plant and finishing building another (started 20+ years ago), and they nearly exhausted the supply of qualified welders, electricians, pipe fitters, engineers and designers....in the whole country. This feel good phrase about our becoming an 'information economy' is voodoo of the first order. It's not that information doesn't exist, or that it doesn't have value, it's just that to truly create, rather than just add value, manufacturing or extraction industries are needed. Manufacturing is well understood, with Boeing being an example. While mining and fishing are considered extraction industries, so is farming, and lumber growing. Wall Street, the ultimate information merchant, is broke and we are relying on what little manufacturing and extraction industries we have left to haul us out of the hole. Chuck Jensen -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of S. Ramirez Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:08 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Check this out What this says, Rick, is that once our business experts and leaders realize that a great country cannot be great without manufacturing, they will attempt to restart manufacturing, but we won't have qualified machinists and other similar craftsman/tradesmen to do it. We will have to import this technology and expertise, thus creating a whole new problem. It's too bad that our present leaders were and are trained in MBA schools to maximize this quarter's bottom line and not tomorrow's. Simon Ramirez Copyright 2009 From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Girard Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 5:34 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check this out When my son was in his high school in the suburbs of Seattle, Washington was busy getting rid of all it's shop classes. When we complained, the school principal replied that all kids would be educated to go to college and if they wanted to get into trades they could go to an industrial arts school afterward. This was when all the "experts" said we were going to be an "information economy". Funny thing though, no one could ever answer my question as to what that information would be? The latest "star"? The latest trivia? We certainly wouldn't have any information about making things. And now we don't make so much anymore. Maybe we can sell information about how to ruin an economy by surrendering it to bankers and financiers. MHO. Rick Girard do not archive On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Terry Watson < terry@tcwatson.com> wrote: terry@tcwatson.com> I will confess to a strong possibility of prejudice based on my own experience growing up on a farm, but I don't understand the use of the word "orthogonal" in this context. I understand and agree that growing up poor is a strong motivation to do things for ones self. I did run across an interesting book that I think is on the very subject Bob was talking about. I downloaded and read the free sample on my Kindle and will probably buy and read the book. As an aside, I have discovered the book reviews on Amazon.com to be a fascinating source of discovery. It's a little like wandering through a library and sampling books, but all from your own computer and with in many cases dozens of thoughtful reviews of the book. This particular book is SHOP CLASS AS SOULCRAFT by Matthew B. Crawford. I think Bob in particular would find it pertinent to his ideas. The link to the book is: http://tinyurl.com/nrybq5 Terry -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Christley Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 12:47 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check this out < echristley@nc.rr.com> Terry Watson wrote: < terry@tcwatson.com> > > My suggestion about a very large contributing factor to this problem is that > so few of us are raised on a farm or ranch anymore. Any farm kid learns that > if something needs doing, you need to be able to do it; when something > breaks, you need to be able to fix it. To eat, you need to plant seeds and > assure their growth, or to be willing to slaughter an animal you have known > all its life. I don't know how you translate this into an urban lifestyle > where we may be many layers away from the source of what we want or need, > but it's a great loss if we can't do it. Maybe it's just teaching kids the > joy of working with their head AND their hands at the same time, or the > satisfaction of playing with or living in or riding in or flying in > something they built with their own hands. > Nawh, living on a farm is orthogonal. A child just has to grow up without being handed everything he wants. He has to learn to WANT things. Then he has to learn that things can be had from one's own hands. I grew up poor. Not Ethiopian starvation poor, but if I wanted a bicycle I had to learn to build it from spare parts that I got from castaways. I learned to build a bicycle from castaways. I'm no longer poor by any reasonable definition, but I still can't afford a certified airplane. If I want one, I have to learn to build it myself. We'll see in a year or so what sort of student I am. -- Ernest Christley, President Ernest@TechnicalTakedown.com TechnicalTakedown, LLC www.TechnicalTakedown.com 101 Steep Bank Dr. Cary, NC 27518 (919) 741-9397 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List http://forums.matronics.com le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 14


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    Time: 06:10:08 PM PST US
    From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
    Subject: ANL Current limiters
    Bob: Is there a section in AeroElectric Connection where you discuss the role of ANL current limiters? I've got revision 11 and I can't seem to find it, although i've read the book three times. I'm sure it's escaped me. Many thanks for your continued guidance. Bob Collins St. Paul, MN RV-7A


    Message 15


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    Time: 06:40:01 PM PST US
    From: Rodney Dunham <rdunhamtn@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Castaways!
    Ernest=2C Loved your post! When I was about 13=2C one of six kids of a US Navy enlisted man=2C and "po or" by my kids standards=2C I was being given a tour of the spoiled kid up the street's garage. He wanted to show off his 10 speed bike. That was in a bout 1966=2C so 10 speeds were the neatest newest bike thing. In the corner lay an assortment of bike parts. Castaways! I asked him what it was and he told me it was a 3 speed bike. I asked if it was all there. H e replied in the affirmative. I asked how much he wanted for it. He said $3 .50. I said I'll take it! Now=2C when you're an enlisted man and you're feeding=2C clothing and housi ng a family of 8=2C the kids don't get allowances or any other form of cash . We never missed it. We didn't know any better. BUT... I didn't have a bik e and I really WANTED one. I mowed lawns for money. If I recall=2C I got about $2.50 a lawn. I used a hand powered mower and hand edger. I gave my customers a really good groomi ng for the money. So... I had some cash in my pocket that fateful day. And. .. I really WANTED that bike! I paid the money=2C gathered up the castaway bike and headed home feeling l ike I'd just cheated that "rich" kid out of something priceless! I took it home and assembled it and sure enough it was all there=2C except for a few ball bearings which I was able to purchase from a local bike store for penn ies apiece. I was in hog heaven. I drove that bike all over San Diego. Never once was I ashamed of its appearance or the fact that everyone else seemed to have 7 gears more than I did. That castaway bike was my magic carpet and I exercis ed it=2C and myself=2C every chance I got. Now=2C I'm an MD=2C my kids always had a nice bike and I have not broken a sweat providing college educations to them both. I live in a nice suburb of Knoxville and life is good. I'm the most successful of my siblings. I've c ome to believe it's because I had Polio in my infancy and grew up "crippled ". Hah! I had the most to overcome and my parents didn't baby me. They allo wed my entrepreneurial endeavors and encouraged me to exercise my body with that bike. I'm choking up right now as I write this. What great memories! I've worked for everything I've ever had including OBAM aircraft and that m akes them even sweeter to me. You'll be a great student! My instructor told me one day that I was the mos t prepared student he'd ever had. You see=2C I really WANTED to fly that ai rplane! Rodney in Tennessee Unabashed Nuckollhead DO NOT ARCHIVE <snip> > Nawh=2C living on a farm is orthogonal. A child just has to grow up > without being handed everything he wants. He has to learn to WANT > things. Then he has to learn that things can be had from one's own hands . > > I grew up poor. Not Ethiopian starvation poor=2C but if I wanted a > bicycle I had to learn to build it from spare parts that I got from > castaways. I learned to build a bicycle from castaways. I'm no longer > poor by any reasonable definition=2C but I still can't afford a certified > airplane. If I want one=2C I have to learn to build it myself. We'll se e > in a year or so what sort of student I am. > > -- > Ernest Christley=2C President > Ernest@TechnicalTakedown.com > > TechnicalTakedown=2C LLC > www.TechnicalTakedown.com > 101 Steep Bank Dr. > Cary=2C NC 27518 > (919) 741-9397 <snip> _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=PID23384::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:NF_BR _sync:082009


    Message 16


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    Time: 06:51:59 PM PST US
    Subject: Check this out
    From: jaybannist@cs.com
    It happened sometime during my generation (born 1935).=C2- Up until and during WWII, it was =9Chonorable=9D to be in the trades, work ing with your hands.=C2- Sometime after WWII, and before the =9Cin formation age=9D, in my world, it became imperative to go to college and earn a degree so that one didn=99t have to work with ones hands .=C2- Somehow, using brainpower instead of muscle power became =9C noble=9D. There are those among us that choose to use both.=C2- We are the =9Ctinkerers=9D.=C2- We are driven to learn, experi ment and to create.=C2- But we are the dinosaurs, a dying breed.=C2- Beyond the time when it was a given that a college education was all that was necessary to succeed, along came the computer. Today=99s youth (and some ancients) think that you can do anything if you can conquer the computer.=C2- Never mind what makes it work.=C2- You only need to mas ter the keyboard, the display and a host of programming tricks.=C2- This mentality leads one to believe that =9Cstuff=9D happens witho ut human intervention, except through the computer=99s omnipotent po wer. Thus the decline in people that really make =9Cstuff=9D happen - the carpenters, millwrights, farmers, machinist, plumbers, mecha nics - all those that work with their hands.=C2- Of course, they are sti ll out there, doing the everyday jobs that must be done, but their numbers are rapidly declining; =98cause it=99s just not =9Ccool =9D to work with your hands=2 0these days.=C2- By all means, allow and encourage the kids to master th e computer.=C2- Just don=99t let it get in the way of learning abo ut and doing things manually, creating and above all - =9CTINKERING =9D. Jay Bannister ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com




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