Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:38 AM - Re: Rotax-B & C over voltage protection (icrashrc)
2. 05:22 AM - Voltage drop puzzle (Andrew Butler)
3. 06:32 AM - Re: Check this out (Bob Collins)
4. 06:39 AM - Re: Radio Noise (sonex293)
5. 07:14 AM - Re: Voltage drop puzzle (Matt Prather)
6. 07:21 AM - Re: Voltage drop puzzle (Andrew Butler)
7. 07:27 AM - Re: Check this out (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
8. 07:46 AM - Re: Voltage drop puzzle (Jay Hyde)
9. 07:47 AM - Re: Voltage drop puzzle (Andrew Butler)
10. 07:48 AM - Re: Voltage drop puzzle (Bob Lee)
11. 08:21 AM - Re: Re: Rotax-B & C over voltage protection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 08:31 AM - Re: Check this out (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 08:49 AM - Re: Voltage drop puzzle (Andrew Butler)
14. 08:49 AM - Re: Voltage drop puzzle (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 09:01 AM - Re: Coil & ECM (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 09:05 AM - Re: Re: Magneto Wiring with 2-50 switches and toggle switch starting (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 09:49 AM - Re: Voltage drop puzzle (Jay Hyde)
18. 09:49 AM - Re: Re: Magneto Wiring with 2-50 switches and toggle switch starting (Jay Hyde)
19. 09:56 AM - Re: Check this out (Bob Collins)
20. 10:24 AM - Re: Check this out (Terry Watson)
21. 10:50 AM - Re: Check this out (Bob Collins)
22. 11:10 AM - Re: Re: Radio Noise (Jeff Page)
23. 12:12 PM - Re: Check this out (Michael Pereira)
24. 04:21 PM - Re: Re: Radio Noise (Kelly McMullen)
25. 09:44 PM - Re: Re: Rotax-B & C over voltage protection (rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Rotax-B & C over voltage protection |
Bob,
Thanks, I'll get one of your over voltage modules on order. Any idea if the Rotax
charging system output voltage is adjustable?
Scott
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257095#257095
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Subject: | Voltage drop puzzle |
Hello All,
I have more or less finished my wiring. I have impelemented Z13/8 on my project.
I have a switch to engage the relay that isolates the feed from the SD-8 during
normal operations. I have installed a bulb in this circuit to tell me that
the relay is engaged.
While I have 12V plus on my main bus, I am getting a much lower voltage (the order
of 4 volts) through the bulb (I was alerted to this by the bulb being very
dim). Why is this? Sure enough I should have a drop through 1N5400 diode that
is in the circuit, but surely not that much? Does the relay itself contribute
to the drop aswell? Attached is the diagram with a circle around the bulb in
question. The circuit is installed as shown.
Is this even a problem? The relay engages to the NO position as required when I
flip the switch (number 12) and stays there.
Best regards,
Andrew Butler,
RV7 EI-EEO
Firewall Forward
Galway Ireland.
Message 3
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You know, aviation is a way for me to escape politics and have fun. Can we
please get off this now. Nobody has ever had their mind changed by a
politics thread on the Internet.
Let's get back to electrical issues in our planes and leave this other stuff
for the talk shows.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Pereira
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check this out
--> <mjpereira68@gmail.com>
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 5:07 PM, S. Ramirez<simon@synchdes.com> wrote:
> What this says, Rick, is that once our business experts and leaders
> realize that a great country cannot be great without manufacturing,
> they will attempt to restart manufacturing, but we wont have
> qualified machinists and other similar craftsman/tradesmen to do it.
> We will have to import this technology and expertise, thus creating a
> whole new problem. Its too bad that our present leaders were and are
> trained in MBA schools to maximize this quarters bottom line and not
tomorrows.
How about instead of smacking around Joe CEO that we modify our country's
business environment ? You know, like reducing corporate taxation since our
country has the highest corporate tax rate in the western world. Or maybe
reining in the insane environmental regulations that allow non-involved 3rd
parties to sue to prevent the building of any kind of industrial
infrastructure (like nuke plants or oil refineries for example) for years to
decades.
Complain about corporate stupidity and bean counters all you want, but,
reality is that any company that behaves differently will be put out of
business by it's more efficiently operating competitors (or be put out of
business by a nationalized company that no longer needs to heed efficiency
at all; I still can't believe I have to say that in the United States).
If you want different results we need to change the underlying fundamentals
that are driving the corporate behaviors we all (including me) find
annoying.
Sorry for the political content. I do think being mechanically competent is
important.
But, with all the insanity going on in the US today I can't let certain
kinds of rhetoric pass uncommented. And, now that Obama himself is telling
me to shut up lest my neighbors report me, I'm super pissed on top of it (I
don't mean pissed or even annoyed at Simon, my opinion just differs from his
and Simon, as far as I know, isn't trying to oppress me *smirks*).
c'ya,
Sorry,
Michael
>
>
> Simon Ramirez
>
> Copyright 2009
>
>
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Richard Girard
> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 5:34 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check this out
>
>
> When my son was in his high school in the suburbs of Seattle,
> Washington was busy getting rid of all it's shop classes. When we
> complained, the school principal replied that all kids would be
> educated to go to college and if they wanted to get into trades they
> could go to an industrial arts school afterward. This was when all the
> "experts" said we were going to be an "information economy". Funny
> thing though, no one could ever answer my question as to what that
> information would be? The latest "star"? The latest trivia? We
> certainly wouldn't have any information about making things. And now
> we don't make so much anymore. Maybe we can sell information about how to
ruin an economy by surrendering it to bankers and financiers.
>
> MHO.
>
>
> Rick Girard
>
> do not archive
>
> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Terry Watson <terry@tcwatson.com> wrote:
>
> --> <terry@tcwatson.com>
>
> I will confess to a strong possibility of prejudice based on my own
>
> experience growing up on a farm, but I don't understand the use of the
> word "orthogonal" in this context. I understand and agree that growing
> up poor is a strong motivation to do things for ones self. I did run
> across an interesting book that I think is on the very subject Bob was
talking about.
> I downloaded and read the free sample on my Kindle and will probably
> buy and read the book. As an aside, I have discovered the book reviews
> on Amazon.com to be a fascinating source of discovery. It's a little
> like wandering through a library and sampling books, but all from your
> own computer and with in many cases dozens of thoughtful reviews of
> the book. This particular book is SHOP CLASS AS SOULCRAFT by Matthew
> B. Crawford. I think Bob in particular would find it pertinent to his
ideas. The link to the book is:
> http://tinyurl.com/nrybq5
>
> Terry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Ernest Christley
> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 12:47 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check this out
>
> <echristley@nc.rr.com>
>
> Terry Watson wrote:
> <terry@tcwatson.com>
>>
>> My suggestion about a very large contributing factor to this problem
>> is
> that
>> so few of us are raised on a farm or ranch anymore. Any farm kid
>> learns
> that
>> if something needs doing, you need to be able to do it; when
>> something breaks, you need to be able to fix it. To eat, you need to
>> plant seeds and assure their growth, or to be willing to slaughter an
>> animal you have
> known
>> all its life. I don't know how you translate this into an urban
>> lifestyle where we may be many layers away from the source of what we
>> want or need, but it's a great loss if we can't do it. Maybe it's
>> just teaching kids the joy of working with their head AND their hands
>> at the same time, or the satisfaction of playing with or living in or
>> riding in or flying in something they built with their own hands.
>>
> Nawh, living on a farm is orthogonal. A child just has to grow up
> without being handed everything he wants. He has to learn to WANT
> things. Then he has to learn that things can be had from one's own hands.
>
> I grew up poor. Not Ethiopian starvation poor, but if I wanted a
> bicycle I had to learn to build it from spare parts that I got from
> castaways. I learned to build a bicycle from castaways. I'm no
> longer poor by any reasonable definition, but I still can't afford a
> certified airplane. If I want one, I have to learn to build it
> myself. We'll see in a year or so what sort of student I am.
>
> --
> Ernest Christley, President
> Ernest@TechnicalTakedown.com
>
> TechnicalTakedown, LLC
> www.TechnicalTakedown.com
> 101 Steep Bank Dr.
> Cary, NC 27518
> (919) 741-9397
>
>
> ==========
> -List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
Message 4
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I think you are on the right track by using a second radio connected into the aircraft's
antenna cable to compare reception and transmission. And even better
with a handheld, since you are also isolating the power side of things. Hang
in there, you'll get the problem worked out!
jpx(at)Qenesis.com wrote:
>
> I haven't tried anything at the top end, but hopefully will get a chance
> to do so this week when I check the antenna cables and antenna by patching
> in a handheld.
>
> Thanks !
>
> Jeff Page
> Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
--------
Michael Crowder
Jabiru 3300A w/ Hyd Lifters
AeroCarb w/ #3 needle
Sonex N293SX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257118#257118
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Voltage drop puzzle |
> Hello All,
>
> I have more or less finished my wiring. I have impelemented Z13/8 on my
> project. I have a switch to engage the relay that isolates the feed from
> the SD-8 during normal operations. I have installed a bulb in this circuit
> to tell me that the relay is engaged.
>
> While I have 12V plus on my main bus, I am getting a much lower voltage
> (the order of 4 volts) through the bulb (I was alerted to this by the bulb
> being very dim). Why is this? Sure enough I should have a drop through
> 1N5400 diode that is in the circuit, but surely not that much? Does the
> relay itself contribute to the drop aswell? Attached is the diagram with a
> circle around the bulb in question. The circuit is installed as shown.
>
> Is this even a problem? The relay engages to the NO position as required
> when I flip the switch (number 12) and stays there.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Andrew Butler,
> RV7 EI-EEO
> Firewall Forward
> Galway Ireland.
As drawn, you have the bulb in series with the coil - a voltage divider.
This probably isn't a very good thing as the series resistance of the bulb
is reducing the current through the coil which will reduce the turn-on
margin on the relay. If the bus voltage drops, you might not be able to
get the relay to close. Once closed, it will probably stay there until
the controlling switch is opened - which is fine.
It seems like it's not a good idea to insert anything in the circuit to
the coil. If you wanted to monitor the position of the switch you could
select a double pole (DPST) switch to control the relay and wire the lamp
through the extra pole.
Matt-
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Voltage drop puzzle |
Having just stared at it a while, I realise that I need to take the unreliable
bulb out of the circuit. Any suggestions on how I could wire one in to tell me
whether or not the circuit is live?
Andrew.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Butler" <andrewbutler@ireland.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 1:16:11 PM GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland, Portugal
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Voltage drop puzzle
Hello All,
I have more or less finished my wiring. I have impelemented Z13/8 on my project.
I have a switch to engage the relay that isolates the feed from the SD-8 during
normal operations. I have installed a bulb in this circuit to tell me that
the relay is engaged.
While I have 12V plus on my main bus, I am getting a much lower voltage (the order
of 4 volts) through the bulb (I was alerted to this by the bulb being very
dim). Why is this? Sure enough I should have a drop through 1N5400 diode that
is in the circuit, but surely not that much? Does the relay itself contribute
to the drop aswell? Attached is the diagram with a circle around the bulb in
question. The circuit is installed as shown.
Is this even a problem? The relay engages to the NO position as required when I
flip the switch (number 12) and stays there.
Best regards,
Andrew Butler,
RV7 EI-EEO
Firewall Forward
Galway Ireland.
Message 7
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An RV of course..Not that I'm biased or anything..:)
Frank
RV7a...180mph at 7GPH in IMC!...More fuel efficient than the Zodiac..:)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryMcFarland
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check this out
--> <larry@macsmachine.com>
Attaboy Frank,
Message 8
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Subject: | Voltage drop puzzle |
Hi there,
I think that the voltage drop through the relay is the problem. Maybe
change the aux power switch to a 2 pole one (a 2-3) and then wire the second
pole with a 'clean' 12V from the 'upstream' side of the relay - say from the
same terminal as where the yellow wire of the OV crowbar goes to; then
through the switch and via the light to ground.
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
Butler
Sent: 11 August 2009 02:16 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Voltage drop puzzle
Hello All,
I have more or less finished my wiring. I have impelemented Z13/8 on my
project. I have a switch to engage the relay that isolates the feed from the
SD-8 during normal operations. I have installed a bulb in this circuit to
tell me that the relay is engaged.
While I have 12V plus on my main bus, I am getting a much lower voltage (the
order of 4 volts) through the bulb (I was alerted to this by the bulb being
very dim). Why is this? Sure enough I should have a drop through 1N5400
diode that is in the circuit, but surely not that much? Does the relay
itself contribute to the drop aswell? Attached is the diagram with a circle
around the bulb in question. The circuit is installed as shown.
Is this even a problem? The relay engages to the NO position as required
when I flip the switch (number 12) and stays there.
Best regards,
Andrew Butler,
RV7 EI-EEO
Firewall Forward
Galway Ireland.
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Voltage drop puzzle |
Thanks Matt. My own bulb went off in my head while thinking on it a bit more and
figured just that about the DPST switch.
Andrew.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 2:50:42 PM GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland, Portugal
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Voltage drop puzzle
> Hello All,
>
> I have more or less finished my wiring. I have impelemented Z13/8 on my
> project. I have a switch to engage the relay that isolates the feed from
> the SD-8 during normal operations. I have installed a bulb in this circuit
> to tell me that the relay is engaged.
>
> While I have 12V plus on my main bus, I am getting a much lower voltage
> (the order of 4 volts) through the bulb (I was alerted to this by the bulb
> being very dim). Why is this? Sure enough I should have a drop through
> 1N5400 diode that is in the circuit, but surely not that much? Does the
> relay itself contribute to the drop aswell? Attached is the diagram with a
> circle around the bulb in question. The circuit is installed as shown.
>
> Is this even a problem? The relay engages to the NO position as required
> when I flip the switch (number 12) and stays there.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Andrew Butler,
> RV7 EI-EEO
> Firewall Forward
> Galway Ireland.
As drawn, you have the bulb in series with the coil - a voltage divider.
This probably isn't a very good thing as the series resistance of the bulb
is reducing the current through the coil which will reduce the turn-on
margin on the relay. If the bus voltage drops, you might not be able to
get the relay to close. Once closed, it will probably stay there until
the controlling switch is opened - which is fine.
It seems like it's not a good idea to insert anything in the circuit to
the coil. If you wanted to monitor the position of the switch you could
select a double pole (DPST) switch to control the relay and wire the lamp
through the extra pole.
Matt-
Message 10
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Subject: | Voltage drop puzzle |
Matt wrote: << If you wanted to monitor the position of the switch you
could
select a double pole (DPST) switch to control the relay and wire the lamp
through the extra pole. >>
It would be a weak design goal to know the position of the switch. A better
goal would be to know the position of the relay. A still better goal would
be to know the function the relay controled was working. Lectric Bob has
presented an inexpensive and elegant solution to the best design goal here.
In a recent thread with the subject: Pitot heaters . . . warn or not, that
IS the question, bob posted his solution on the web at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Failure_Detection_and_Annunciation.pdf
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Bob Lee
N52BL KR2
Suwanee, GA USA
92% done only 67% to go!
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Rotax-B & C over voltage protection |
At 02:35 AM 8/11/2009, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>Thanks, I'll get one of your over voltage modules on order. Any idea
>if the Rotax charging system output voltage is adjustable?
I don't believe it is. I'd like to find the time
someday to craft a really modern rectifier/regulator
that contains built in OV protection and adjustable
regulation set point. I've got too many irons in
the fire . . .
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 12
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>
>
><bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
>
>You know, aviation is a way for me to escape politics and have fun. Can we
>please get off this now. Nobody has ever had their mind changed by a
>politics thread on the Internet.
>
>Let's get back to electrical issues in our planes and leave this other stuff
>for the talk shows.
There's a difference between "politics" and observation,
study, discussion and observation of conditions that have
a direct influence upon our ability to "escape politics
and have fun". This is a good example of why we should
be wary of "thread creep" in the subject line of our
discussions. I'm sure no one on the List wants you to
stumble into discussions that do not align with your personal
participation goals for the List.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Voltage drop puzzle |
Thanks Jay,
What about if using the 2-3 switch I connected the light to the live terminal on
the capacitor? That would allow me to test the relay in pre-flight by engaging
the switch (and checking for illumination) while also allowing me to monitor
that I have flipped the switch during flight........
Andrew.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Hyde" <jay@horriblehyde.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 3:25:39 PM GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland, Portugal
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Voltage drop puzzle
Hi there,
I think that the voltage drop through the relay is the problem. Maybe
change the aux power switch to a 2 pole one (a 2-3) and then wire the second
pole with a 'clean' 12V from the 'upstream' side of the relay - say from the
same terminal as where the yellow wire of the OV crowbar goes to; then
through the switch and via the light to ground.
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
Butler
Sent: 11 August 2009 02:16 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Voltage drop puzzle
Hello All,
I have more or less finished my wiring. I have impelemented Z13/8 on my
project. I have a switch to engage the relay that isolates the feed from the
SD-8 during normal operations. I have installed a bulb in this circuit to
tell me that the relay is engaged.
While I have 12V plus on my main bus, I am getting a much lower voltage (the
order of 4 volts) through the bulb (I was alerted to this by the bulb being
very dim). Why is this? Sure enough I should have a drop through 1N5400
diode that is in the circuit, but surely not that much? Does the relay
itself contribute to the drop aswell? Attached is the diagram with a circle
around the bulb in question. The circuit is installed as shown.
Is this even a problem? The relay engages to the NO position as required
when I flip the switch (number 12) and stays there.
Best regards,
Andrew Butler,
RV7 EI-EEO
Firewall Forward
Galway Ireland.
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Voltage drop puzzle |
At 07:16 AM 8/11/2009, you wrote:
>Hello All,
>
>I have more or less finished my wiring. I have impelemented Z13/8 on
>my project. I have a switch to engage the relay that isolates the
>feed from the SD-8 during normal operations. I have installed a bulb
>in this circuit to tell me that the relay is engaged.
>
>While I have 12V plus on my main bus, I am getting a much lower
>voltage (the order of 4 volts) through the bulb (I was alerted to
>this by the bulb being very dim). Why is this? Sure enough I should
>have a drop through 1N5400 diode that is in the circuit, but surely
>not that much? Does the relay itself contribute to the drop aswell?
>Attached is the diagram with a circle around the bulb in question.
>The circuit is installed as shown.
>
>Is this even a problem? The relay engages to the NO position as
>required when I flip the switch (number 12) and stays there.
I'm surprised that the relay still pulls in but
that's a function of bulb size. As others have noted
you have the bulb wired incorrectly for the purpose
of showing that the relay is "closed". Wired as shown,
it only says that the relay coil has some current flowing
through it . . . but does not speak to actual connection
(or functionality) of the alternator.
Further, for you lamp to function as a "relay energized"
notification, the bulb needs to be in PARALLEL with the
relay coil, not series.
May I suggest that your active notification of low voltage
is a much better way to report condition of the WHOLE alternator
system? The fact that you KNOW the relay is energized
is not very informative. There are lots of things that
could cause alternator output to be inadequate or
completely missing. The fact that bus voltage is too
low to avoid discharging the battery (13.0) is the
DEFINITIVE indicator of alternator performance.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 15
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At 06:59 AM 8/8/2009, you wrote:
>Is there a method to test an ignition coil and ECM? I thought the
>answer might lie with the electric gurus. Randy R.
Are there no instructions with the system? What
are the symptoms that lead you to believe that
testing is needed?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
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Subject: | Re: Magneto Wiring with 2-50 switches and toggle |
switch starting
At 09:58 AM 8/8/2009, you wrote:
>
>
> > I do have one big question that came up while I was copying the
> mag drawings from Z-20. The right mag is shown wired to the switch
> differently than the left. I don't know why it is shown like that.
>
>
>Mystery solved. Ian sent me a version "L" of Z-20, which shows the
>mag switch wires being identical. I looked through both the rev. 12
>and PPS on Bob's site and it showed "K" as the current version of
>the PDF. But then I went to the .dwg files and sure enough, there
>was version "L".
I don't have the older version on my laptop but
I would guess that while the two switches may have
be reversed in their connection, the system would
still have performed as advertised. The ignition
switch needs only to provide continuity to disable
the magneto when in the "IGNITION OFF" position.
Flipping the wires around on the switch wouldn't
make an operational difference.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 17
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Subject: | Voltage drop puzzle |
Hey there Andrew,
That would work fine- remember though that all you really are indicating is
that the pole on the switch is working :-) Hopefully the other pole is
working as well...
The LV monitoring that Bob describes is also a good idea- normally this is
part of the Z13/8 circuit and perhaps you plan to include it in any case.
On the Sling I used the MGL EFIS to monitor the voltage; you can set an
alarm that can also give you a digital output to switch something. If you
are using an EFIS perhaps it has similar features? If not I would use the
LV warning cct and light.
Another idea is to reverse the wiring for the S704-1 relay and use the
normally closed contact to illuminate a light when the relay is de-energised
(see the attached diagram); to my mind this also tells you that the dynamo
is producing a voltage when it's not in use.
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
Butler
Sent: 11 August 2009 05:46 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Voltage drop puzzle
<andrewbutler@ireland.com>
Thanks Jay,
What about if using the 2-3 switch I connected the light to the live
terminal on the capacitor? That would allow me to test the relay in
pre-flight by engaging the switch (and checking for illumination) while also
allowing me to monitor that I have flipped the switch during flight........
Andrew.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Hyde" <jay@horriblehyde.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 3:25:39 PM GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland,
Portugal
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Voltage drop puzzle
Hi there,
I think that the voltage drop through the relay is the problem. Maybe
change the aux power switch to a 2 pole one (a 2-3) and then wire the second
pole with a 'clean' 12V from the 'upstream' side of the relay - say from the
same terminal as where the yellow wire of the OV crowbar goes to; then
through the switch and via the light to ground.
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
Butler
Sent: 11 August 2009 02:16 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Voltage drop puzzle
Hello All,
I have more or less finished my wiring. I have impelemented Z13/8 on my
project. I have a switch to engage the relay that isolates the feed from the
SD-8 during normal operations. I have installed a bulb in this circuit to
tell me that the relay is engaged.
While I have 12V plus on my main bus, I am getting a much lower voltage (the
order of 4 volts) through the bulb (I was alerted to this by the bulb being
very dim). Why is this? Sure enough I should have a drop through 1N5400
diode that is in the circuit, but surely not that much? Does the relay
itself contribute to the drop aswell? Attached is the diagram with a circle
around the bulb in question. The circuit is installed as shown.
Is this even a problem? The relay engages to the NO position as required
when I flip the switch (number 12) and stays there.
Best regards,
Andrew Butler,
RV7 EI-EEO
Firewall Forward
Galway Ireland.
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Magneto Wiring with 2-50 switches and toggle |
switch starting
Bob, I think that you issued the newer version because in the older version
one switch earthed/ grounded the one magneto in the on position...
(in South Africa we tend to use the word 'earth' as opposed to 'ground'-
helps to explain why there is no electricity on the moon- 's because there's
no earth! :-) )
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: 11 August 2009 05:55 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Magneto Wiring with 2-50 switches and
toggle switch starting
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 09:58 AM 8/8/2009, you wrote:
>
>
> > I do have one big question that came up while I was copying the
> mag drawings from Z-20. The right mag is shown wired to the switch
> differently than the left. I don't know why it is shown like that.
>
>
>Mystery solved. Ian sent me a version "L" of Z-20, which shows the
>mag switch wires being identical. I looked through both the rev. 12
>and PPS on Bob's site and it showed "K" as the current version of
>the PDF. But then I went to the .dwg files and sure enough, there
>was version "L".
I don't have the older version on my laptop but
I would guess that while the two switches may have
be reversed in their connection, the system would
still have performed as advertised. The ignition
switch needs only to provide continuity to disable
the magneto when in the "IGNITION OFF" position.
Flipping the wires around on the switch wouldn't
make an operational difference.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 19
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|
Not criticizing your keen observation at all. Just lamenting where the
conversation went after that.
There are a million places to get people's opinions on Obama or the
government's tax policy. But there's only one place to get Bob Nuckholls'
excellent advice (and observations).
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:31 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Check this out
--> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
>
><bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
>
>You know, aviation is a way for me to escape politics and have fun. Can
>we please get off this now. Nobody has ever had their mind changed by a
>politics thread on the Internet.
>
>Let's get back to electrical issues in our planes and leave this other
>stuff for the talk shows.
There's a difference between "politics" and observation,
study, discussion and observation of conditions that have
a direct influence upon our ability to "escape politics
and have fun". This is a good example of why we should
be wary of "thread creep" in the subject line of our
discussions. I'm sure no one on the List wants you to
stumble into discussions that do not align with your personal
participation goals for the List.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 20
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Just tune it out with your delete key, Bob. We don't have to listen to every
tune or program on our favorite radio station and we don't have to follow
every thread on the AeroElectric List. It doesn't stop anyone from talking
about airplane electrics.
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Collins
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 6:11 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Check this out
<bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
You know, aviation is a way for me to escape politics and have fun. Can we
please get off this now. Nobody has ever had their mind changed by a
politics thread on the Internet.
Let's get back to electrical issues in our planes and leave this other stuff
for the talk shows.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Pereira
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check this out
--> <mjpereira68@gmail.com>
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 5:07 PM, S. Ramirez<simon@synchdes.com> wrote:
> What this says, Rick, is that once our business experts and leaders
> realize that a great country cannot be great without manufacturing,
> they will attempt to restart manufacturing, but we wont have
> qualified machinists and other similar craftsman/tradesmen to do it.
> We will have to import this technology and expertise, thus creating a
> whole new problem. Its too bad that our present leaders were and are
> trained in MBA schools to maximize this quarters bottom line and not
tomorrows.
How about instead of smacking around Joe CEO that we modify our country's
business environment ? You know, like reducing corporate taxation since our
country has the highest corporate tax rate in the western world. Or maybe
reining in the insane environmental regulations that allow non-involved 3rd
parties to sue to prevent the building of any kind of industrial
infrastructure (like nuke plants or oil refineries for example) for years to
decades.
Complain about corporate stupidity and bean counters all you want, but,
reality is that any company that behaves differently will be put out of
business by it's more efficiently operating competitors (or be put out of
business by a nationalized company that no longer needs to heed efficiency
at all; I still can't believe I have to say that in the United States).
If you want different results we need to change the underlying fundamentals
that are driving the corporate behaviors we all (including me) find
annoying.
Sorry for the political content. I do think being mechanically competent is
important.
But, with all the insanity going on in the US today I can't let certain
kinds of rhetoric pass uncommented. And, now that Obama himself is telling
me to shut up lest my neighbors report me, I'm super pissed on top of it (I
don't mean pissed or even annoyed at Simon, my opinion just differs from his
and Simon, as far as I know, isn't trying to oppress me *smirks*).
c'ya,
Sorry,
Michael
>
>
> Simon Ramirez
>
> Copyright 2009
>
>
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Richard Girard
> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 5:34 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check this out
>
>
> When my son was in his high school in the suburbs of Seattle,
> Washington was busy getting rid of all it's shop classes. When we
> complained, the school principal replied that all kids would be
> educated to go to college and if they wanted to get into trades they
> could go to an industrial arts school afterward. This was when all the
> "experts" said we were going to be an "information economy". Funny
> thing though, no one could ever answer my question as to what that
> information would be? The latest "star"? The latest trivia? We
> certainly wouldn't have any information about making things. And now
> we don't make so much anymore. Maybe we can sell information about how to
ruin an economy by surrendering it to bankers and financiers.
>
> MHO.
>
>
> Rick Girard
>
> do not archive
>
> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Terry Watson <terry@tcwatson.com> wrote:
>
> --> <terry@tcwatson.com>
>
> I will confess to a strong possibility of prejudice based on my own
>
> experience growing up on a farm, but I don't understand the use of the
> word "orthogonal" in this context. I understand and agree that growing
> up poor is a strong motivation to do things for ones self. I did run
> across an interesting book that I think is on the very subject Bob was
talking about.
> I downloaded and read the free sample on my Kindle and will probably
> buy and read the book. As an aside, I have discovered the book reviews
> on Amazon.com to be a fascinating source of discovery. It's a little
> like wandering through a library and sampling books, but all from your
> own computer and with in many cases dozens of thoughtful reviews of
> the book. This particular book is SHOP CLASS AS SOULCRAFT by Matthew
> B. Crawford. I think Bob in particular would find it pertinent to his
ideas. The link to the book is:
> http://tinyurl.com/nrybq5
>
> Terry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Ernest Christley
> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 12:47 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check this out
>
> <echristley@nc.rr.com>
>
> Terry Watson wrote:
> <terry@tcwatson.com>
>>
>> My suggestion about a very large contributing factor to this problem
>> is
> that
>> so few of us are raised on a farm or ranch anymore. Any farm kid
>> learns
> that
>> if something needs doing, you need to be able to do it; when
>> something breaks, you need to be able to fix it. To eat, you need to
>> plant seeds and assure their growth, or to be willing to slaughter an
>> animal you have
> known
>> all its life. I don't know how you translate this into an urban
>> lifestyle where we may be many layers away from the source of what we
>> want or need, but it's a great loss if we can't do it. Maybe it's
>> just teaching kids the joy of working with their head AND their hands
>> at the same time, or the satisfaction of playing with or living in or
>> riding in or flying in something they built with their own hands.
>>
> Nawh, living on a farm is orthogonal. A child just has to grow up
> without being handed everything he wants. He has to learn to WANT
> things. Then he has to learn that things can be had from one's own hands.
>
> I grew up poor. Not Ethiopian starvation poor, but if I wanted a
> bicycle I had to learn to build it from spare parts that I got from
> castaways. I learned to build a bicycle from castaways. I'm no
> longer poor by any reasonable definition, but I still can't afford a
> certified airplane. If I want one, I have to learn to build it
> myself. We'll see in a year or so what sort of student I am.
>
> --
> Ernest Christley, President
> Ernest@TechnicalTakedown.com
>
> TechnicalTakedown, LLC
> www.TechnicalTakedown.com
> 101 Steep Bank Dr.
> Cary, NC 27518
> (919) 741-9397
>
>
> ==========
> -List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
Message 21
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|
OK, skip it. Forget I said anything.
No sense opening up a whole new front.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry
Watson
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:22 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Check this out
--> <terry@tcwatson.com>
Just tune it out with your delete key, Bob. We don't have to listen to every
tune or program on our favorite radio station and we don't have to follow
every thread on the AeroElectric List. It doesn't stop anyone from talking
about airplane electrics.
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Collins
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 6:11 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Check this out
<bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
You know, aviation is a way for me to escape politics and have fun. Can we
please get off this now. Nobody has ever had their mind changed by a
politics thread on the Internet.
Let's get back to electrical issues in our planes and leave this other stuff
for the talk shows.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Pereira
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check this out
--> <mjpereira68@gmail.com>
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 5:07 PM, S. Ramirez<simon@synchdes.com> wrote:
> What this says, Rick, is that once our business experts and leaders
> realize that a great country cannot be great without manufacturing,
> they will attempt to restart manufacturing, but we wont have
> qualified machinists and other similar craftsman/tradesmen to do it.
> We will have to import this technology and expertise, thus creating a
> whole new problem. Its too bad that our present leaders were and are
> trained in MBA schools to maximize this quarters bottom line and not
tomorrows.
How about instead of smacking around Joe CEO that we modify our country's
business environment ? You know, like reducing corporate taxation since our
country has the highest corporate tax rate in the western world. Or maybe
reining in the insane environmental regulations that allow non-involved 3rd
parties to sue to prevent the building of any kind of industrial
infrastructure (like nuke plants or oil refineries for example) for years to
decades.
Complain about corporate stupidity and bean counters all you want, but,
reality is that any company that behaves differently will be put out of
business by it's more efficiently operating competitors (or be put out of
business by a nationalized company that no longer needs to heed efficiency
at all; I still can't believe I have to say that in the United States).
If you want different results we need to change the underlying fundamentals
that are driving the corporate behaviors we all (including me) find
annoying.
Sorry for the political content. I do think being mechanically competent is
important.
But, with all the insanity going on in the US today I can't let certain
kinds of rhetoric pass uncommented. And, now that Obama himself is telling
me to shut up lest my neighbors report me, I'm super pissed on top of it (I
don't mean pissed or even annoyed at Simon, my opinion just differs from his
and Simon, as far as I know, isn't trying to oppress me *smirks*).
c'ya,
Sorry,
Michael
>
>
> Simon Ramirez
>
> Copyright 2009
>
>
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Richard Girard
> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 5:34 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check this out
>
>
> When my son was in his high school in the suburbs of Seattle,
> Washington was busy getting rid of all it's shop classes. When we
> complained, the school principal replied that all kids would be
> educated to go to college and if they wanted to get into trades they
> could go to an industrial arts school afterward. This was when all the
> "experts" said we were going to be an "information economy". Funny
> thing though, no one could ever answer my question as to what that
> information would be? The latest "star"? The latest trivia? We
> certainly wouldn't have any information about making things. And now
> we don't make so much anymore. Maybe we can sell information about how
> to
ruin an economy by surrendering it to bankers and financiers.
>
> MHO.
>
>
> Rick Girard
>
> do not archive
>
> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Terry Watson <terry@tcwatson.com> wrote:
>
> --> <terry@tcwatson.com>
>
> I will confess to a strong possibility of prejudice based on my own
>
> experience growing up on a farm, but I don't understand the use of the
> word "orthogonal" in this context. I understand and agree that growing
> up poor is a strong motivation to do things for ones self. I did run
> across an interesting book that I think is on the very subject Bob was
talking about.
> I downloaded and read the free sample on my Kindle and will probably
> buy and read the book. As an aside, I have discovered the book reviews
> on Amazon.com to be a fascinating source of discovery. It's a little
> like wandering through a library and sampling books, but all from your
> own computer and with in many cases dozens of thoughtful reviews of
> the book. This particular book is SHOP CLASS AS SOULCRAFT by Matthew
> B. Crawford. I think Bob in particular would find it pertinent to his
ideas. The link to the book is:
> http://tinyurl.com/nrybq5
>
> Terry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Ernest Christley
> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 12:47 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check this out
>
> <echristley@nc.rr.com>
>
> Terry Watson wrote:
> <terry@tcwatson.com>
>>
>> My suggestion about a very large contributing factor to this problem
>> is
> that
>> so few of us are raised on a farm or ranch anymore. Any farm kid
>> learns
> that
>> if something needs doing, you need to be able to do it; when
>> something breaks, you need to be able to fix it. To eat, you need to
>> plant seeds and assure their growth, or to be willing to slaughter an
>> animal you have
> known
>> all its life. I don't know how you translate this into an urban
>> lifestyle where we may be many layers away from the source of what we
>> want or need, but it's a great loss if we can't do it. Maybe it's
>> just teaching kids the joy of working with their head AND their hands
>> at the same time, or the satisfaction of playing with or living in or
>> riding in or flying in something they built with their own hands.
>>
> Nawh, living on a farm is orthogonal. A child just has to grow up
> without being handed everything he wants. He has to learn to WANT
> things. Then he has to learn that things can be had from one's own hands.
>
> I grew up poor. Not Ethiopian starvation poor, but if I wanted a
> bicycle I had to learn to build it from spare parts that I got from
> castaways. I learned to build a bicycle from castaways. I'm no
> longer poor by any reasonable definition, but I still can't afford a
> certified airplane. If I want one, I have to learn to build it
> myself. We'll see in a year or so what sort of student I am.
>
> --
> Ernest Christley, President
> Ernest@TechnicalTakedown.com
>
> TechnicalTakedown, LLC
> www.TechnicalTakedown.com
> 101 Steep Bank Dr.
> Cary, NC 27518
> (919) 741-9397
>
>
> ==========
> -List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
Message 22
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|
> Two suggestions. If possible, find another aircraft with same model
> radio, that you can swap yours into, and see how it performs.
The owner of the aircraft is going to ask the avionics shop if they have
another we can test with. I am not hopeful.
> Check your antenna cable thoroughly, substitute another cable and
> antenna if possible.
The owner spent $1000 to have another antenna and cable installed on the
aircraft. All but the soldered on pigtail cable at the radio rack was
installed new. The pigtail was examined and a poor solder joint redone.
I plan to make a patch cable that we can use to connect a handheld right
to the jack in the radio rack to test all of it. Something is truly weird,
since connecting and disconnecting the antenna makes no difference at all
in the reception.
> turn coordinator or turn and bank are normally wired directly to main
> bus to be always powered.
Such as basic panel that there are no electrical devices like this in the
plane.
> I believe you said the radio was bench tested and found to be operational.
> If this is the case, then from your description of the problem, it appears
> that it is either the (1) antenna and/or cable, (2) power/ground wiring, or
> (3) mike/speaker wiring.
I am following up on the antenna cable first, since disconnecting it has no
effect at all, which seems very strange. We isolated the headset jacks at
the panel the other day without improvement. If we are unable to solve the
problem from the antenna side of it, it will probably be faster to just
rewire the plane than to try to follow all the old wires to see if they are
connected to the right place.
Thanks for everyone's suggestions.
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: Check this out |
Bob,
I would agree with you, but, i'm tired of small little things getting
introduced then people like me getting called on answering it.
Sorry, i'll be happy to shutup, but i'm not going to restrain myself
from civil responses now.
c'ya,
Michael
On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 6:11 AM, Bob Collins<bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> You know, aviation is a way for me to escape politics and have fun. Can we
> please get off this now. Nobody has ever had their mind changed by a
> politics thread on the Internet.
>
> Let's get back to electrical issues in our planes and leave this other stuff
> for the talk shows.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
> Pereira
> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:04 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check this out
>
> --> <mjpereira68@gmail.com>
>
> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 5:07 PM, S. Ramirez<simon@synchdes.com> wrote:
>> What this says, Rick, is that once our business experts and leaders
>> realize that a great country cannot be great without manufacturing,
>> they will attempt to restart manufacturing, but we wont have
>> qualified machinists and other similar craftsman/tradesmen to do it.
>> We will have to import this technology and expertise, thus creating a
>> whole new problem. Its too bad that our present leaders were and are
>> trained in MBA schools to maximize this quarters bottom line and not
> tomorrows.
>
> How about instead of smacking around Joe CEO that we modify our country's
> business environment ? You know, like reducing corporate taxation since our
> country has the highest corporate tax rate in the western world. Or maybe
> reining in the insane environmental regulations that allow non-involved 3rd
> parties to sue to prevent the building of any kind of industrial
> infrastructure (like nuke plants or oil refineries for example) for years to
> decades.
>
> Complain about corporate stupidity and bean counters all you want, but,
> reality is that any company that behaves differently will be put out of
> business by it's more efficiently operating competitors (or be put out of
> business by a nationalized company that no longer needs to heed efficiency
> at all; I still can't believe I have to say that in the United States).
>
> If you want different results we need to change the underlying fundamentals
> that are driving the corporate behaviors we all (including me) find
> annoying.
>
> Sorry for the political content. I do think being mechanically competent is
> important.
> But, with all the insanity going on in the US today I can't let certain
> kinds of rhetoric pass uncommented. And, now that Obama himself is telling
> me to shut up lest my neighbors report me, I'm super pissed on top of it (I
> don't mean pissed or even annoyed at Simon, my opinion just differs from his
> and Simon, as far as I know, isn't trying to oppress me *smirks*).
>
> c'ya,
> Sorry,
> Michael
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Simon Ramirez
>>
>> Copyright 2009
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Richard Girard
>> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 5:34 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check this out
>>
>>
>>
>> When my son was in his high school in the suburbs of Seattle,
>> Washington was busy getting rid of all it's shop classes. When we
>> complained, the school principal replied that all kids would be
>> educated to go to college and if they wanted to get into trades they
>> could go to an industrial arts school afterward. This was when all the
>> "experts" said we were going to be an "information economy". Funny
>> thing though, no one could ever answer my question as to what that
>> information would be? The latest "star"? The latest trivia? We
>> certainly wouldn't have any information about making things. And now
>> we don't make so much anymore. Maybe we can sell information about how to
> ruin an economy by surrendering it to bankers and financiers.
>>
>> MHO.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rick Girard
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Terry Watson <terry@tcwatson.com> wrote:
>>
>> --> <terry@tcwatson.com>
>>
>> I will confess to a strong possibility of prejudice based on my own
>>
>> experience growing up on a farm, but I don't understand the use of the
>> word "orthogonal" in this context. I understand and agree that growing
>> up poor is a strong motivation to do things for ones self. I did run
>> across an interesting book that I think is on the very subject Bob was
> talking about.
>> I downloaded and read the free sample on my Kindle and will probably
>> buy and read the book. As an aside, I have discovered the book reviews
>> on Amazon.com to be a fascinating source of discovery. It's a little
>> like wandering through a library and sampling books, but all from your
>> own computer and with in many cases dozens of thoughtful reviews of
>> the book. This particular book is SHOP CLASS AS SOULCRAFT by Matthew
>> B. Crawford. I think Bob in particular would find it pertinent to his
> ideas. The link to the book is:
>> http://tinyurl.com/nrybq5
>>
>> Terry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Ernest Christley
>> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 12:47 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check this out
>>
>> <echristley@nc.rr.com>
>>
>> Terry Watson wrote:
>> <terry@tcwatson.com>
>>>
>>> My suggestion about a very large contributing factor to this problem
>>> is
>> that
>>> so few of us are raised on a farm or ranch anymore. Any farm kid
>>> learns
>> that
>>> if something needs doing, you need to be able to do it; when
>>> something breaks, you need to be able to fix it. To eat, you need to
>>> plant seeds and assure their growth, or to be willing to slaughter an
>>> animal you have
>> known
>>> all its life. I don't know how you translate this into an urban
>>> lifestyle where we may be many layers away from the source of what we
>>> want or need, but it's a great loss if we can't do it. Maybe it's
>>> just teaching kids the joy of working with their head AND their hands
>>> at the same time, or the satisfaction of playing with or living in or
>>> riding in or flying in something they built with their own hands.
>>>
>> Nawh, living on a farm is orthogonal. A child just has to grow up
>> without being handed everything he wants. He has to learn to WANT
>> things. Then he has to learn that things can be had from one's own hands.
>>
>> I grew up poor. Not Ethiopian starvation poor, but if I wanted a
>> bicycle I had to learn to build it from spare parts that I got from
>> castaways. I learned to build a bicycle from castaways. I'm no
>> longer poor by any reasonable definition, but I still can't afford a
>> certified airplane. If I want one, I have to learn to build it
>> myself. We'll see in a year or so what sort of student I am.
>>
>> --
>> Ernest Christley, President
>> Ernest@TechnicalTakedown.com
>>
>> TechnicalTakedown, LLC
>> www.TechnicalTakedown.com
>> 101 Steep Bank Dr.
>> Cary, NC 27518
>> (919) 741-9397
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> -List"
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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You want another aircraft with the same model radio that works okay.
NOT to test his radio in your aircraft, but to test YOUR radio in his
airplane. Completely eliminates any install issues with your aircraft
and isolates on the radio itself. If behavior goes away in second
airplane, the problem is your install. If not, it is your radio.
Jeff Page wrote:
>
>> Two suggestions. If possible, find another aircraft with same model
>> radio, that you can swap yours into, and see how it performs.
>
> The owner of the aircraft is going to ask the avionics shop if they have
> another we can test with. I am not hopeful.
>
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Subject: | Re: Rotax-B & C over voltage protection |
Hi Bobs
"Any idea f the Rotax charging system output
voltage is adjustable?'
"I don't believe it is."
I mentioned this in the past (Bob I think you said it has a
good chance of doing as advertised),I read a post in the Europa
newsgroup how one can increase setpoint on Ducati regulator (others as
well). I plan to do this as Ducati factory setpoint is lower thanI
would like for PC545 Odyssey.
Below is the post from Europa
newsgroup, havn't tried it yet though.
Ron Parigoris
"I also have that Ducati-thing on the other
alternator. Guess I have to
put a diode in series with its sense lead to
crank up the voltage
somewhat."
Good idea to increase setpoint if you can. Where
exactly would you put
diode in circuit? What value diode?
Most regulators have multiple 12 Volt connection
points. So does the
Ducati regulator. One of these 12 Volt points (the one labeled 'C') has
the sole purpose of measuring the voltage. You can connect this directly
to the adjacent connector (B, or R, which carries the actual output) as
is often done, so it measures its own output, but a more correct way is
to connect it directly to the battery, so that any voltage drop over the
feeder cable is corrected. Suppose you want to have a voltage over the
battery of 13.7 Volts, and the cables have a loss of 0.5 Volt, then
connected in this way the regulator will crank up the voltage until it
sees 13.7 Volts at the battery, i.e. it will output 14.2 Volts to
correct the voltage drop over the main cable. Ok, I guess almost nobody
does this as most people don't know about it. BTW, The regulator for the
SD20S alternator has a similar option.
You can however do more with this if you are creative. A standard diode,
like a 1N400x, has a forward voltage drop of about 0.6 / 0.7 Volts. So,
if you put this diode in series with the wire connected to the C, the
regulator will see 0.7 Volts less than the actual voltage. It will
therefor output more to correct for this condition. With other words,
the output will increase with 0.7 Volts.
The diode will not carry any significant current, any rating will
suffice. You could put multiple diodes in series if you want to have a
multiple of 0.7 Volts. A Skottky diode has a forward drop of about 0.2
Volts. You can also use a resistor divider to increase the output with
any value, but keep in mind that a resistor also divides the voltage
fluctuations while a diode is absolute, so using a resistor divider is
somewhat less stable. Another trick is to use a temperature sensitive
resistor, so the regulator will adjust the voltage according to the
temperature, something that is highly appreciated by the battery.
--
Frans Veldman
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