Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:10 AM - Duracell (Fergus Kyle)
2. 05:14 AM - Re: Calibrating fuel qty gauges (Johnson, Phillip (EXP))
3. 08:17 AM - Re: Duracell (jerb)
4. 08:17 AM - Re: Re: Calibrating fuel qty gauges (jerb)
5. 08:24 AM - Re: Radio noises (Jim Streit)
6. 08:34 AM - Re: Duracell (BobsV35B@aol.com)
7. 08:46 AM - Re: Radio noises (thomas sargent)
8. 09:07 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 08/18/09 (John Markey)
9. 09:12 AM - Re: Duracell (David LLoyd)
10. 09:42 AM - Re: Radio noises (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
11. 11:24 AM - Re: Radio noises (thomas sargent)
12. 11:38 AM - Re: Radio noises (Tony Babb)
13. 12:29 PM - Re: Duracell (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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Just yesterday morning, I reached for my Frequency Counter, which I hadn't
used for about a year, and found it dead. ....opened it up and pulled out a
Duracell 9Vdc battery - clean and dry - with the sticker (I put on every
battery) reading 09OCT2003.
Cheers, Ferg
PS: Maybe they were good then....?
Message 2
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Subject: | RE: Calibrating fuel qty gauges |
My sensors are not Princeton but the principle is the same. I seem to
remember drilling about a 1/16" or 3/32" hole at the top of the tube.
Phillip Johnson
________________________________
From: Speedy11@aol.com [mailto:Speedy11@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 9:07 PM
Cc: Johnson, Phillip (EXP)
Subject: Re: Calibrating fuel qty gauges
Phillip,
Thanks for your response.
Your idea may be correct. Not having the vent hole would cause a
problem. As I recall, the Princeton senders did have a small (maybe a
#40) hole drilled in the side to allow flow. But, I will check photos
to see if that is correct.
Thanks for the idea.
Stan Sutterfield
Do not archive
Was Said>
The Princeton Capacitance Sensors I bought and connected to the
AF-3400
EM do not work. I've calibrated them 7 times and they still
fluctuate
between full and 8 gallons when the tanks are full and fluctuate
wildly
when less than full. Perhaps I've done something wrong in the
calibration - I know most errors are installation or operator
errors -
but, I tried to follow the AF-3400 instructions accurately.<end
When I installed my capacitance senders I seem to remember
having to
drill a small hole at the highest point so that the fuel could
drain
back down the tube as necessary. It is possible that you have
entrapped
fuel in the tube that is being held there and needs to be
released by a
small vent.
Regards,
Phillip Johnson
________________________________
Message 3
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That was my point, didn't used to have to worry about Duracells
leaking unless you left them for years and years which made them
worth more. Now they almost leak coming out of the package. I was
just trying to confirm if anyone else is experiencing this new
leaking symptom.
They have changed them in some way that is causing the recent
produced batteries to leak, (last 2-4 years). Previously I never had
a problem with them. Rayovacs used to have leaking problem,
Energizers were better in that regard but still would leak after a
longer period of time. Duracells seldom ever leak ever leak which
made them good choice for use in more expensive things like camera,
test equipment. etc. You paid a little more for them but you had
peace of mind that they wouldn't leak, not so any more.
I had a package of Duracell AAA that I was using for my PDA. They
normally last about 3 weeks to a month. The package I had were well
in shelf date, if they were even close to being run down you wanted
them out of the device. Once you had them out you better have them
in some container cause they would leak with a few weeks, Note I am
experiencing the same problem with other sizes as well.
Well, a couple of you have confirmed similar characteristics. I
know this topic was off from the normal list content but since
batteries have been a topic in the past by Bob I thought I would poll
the members to see if their recent experience has been similar to
mine. Guess I need to approach the company and see what they have to
say. At this point I've lost my confidence in their product.
jerb
At 01:09 AM 8/19/2009, you wrote:
>Just yesterday morning, I reached for my Frequency Counter, which I hadn't
>used for about a year, and found it dead. ....opened it up and pulled out a
>Duracell 9Vdc battery - clean and dry - with the sticker (I put on every
>battery) reading 09OCT2003.
>Cheers, Ferg
>PS: Maybe they were good then....?
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: RE: Calibrating fuel qty gauges |
Are you using 100LL or ethanol blend car gas.
jerb
At 05:12 AM 8/19/2009, you wrote:
>My sensors are not Princeton but the principle is the same. I seem
>to remember drilling about a 1/16" or 3/32" hole at the top of the tube.
>
>Phillip Johnson
>
>
>----------
>From: Speedy11@aol.com [mailto:Speedy11@aol.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 9:07 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Cc: Johnson, Phillip (EXP)
>Subject: Re: Calibrating fuel qty gauges
>
>Phillip,
>Thanks for your response.
>Your idea may be correct. Not having the vent hole would cause a
>problem. As I recall, the Princeton senders did have a small (maybe
>a #40) hole drilled in the side to allow flow. But, I will check
>photos to see if that is correct.
>Thanks for the idea.
>Stan Sutterfield
>Do not archive
>
>Was Said>
>The Princeton Capacitance Sensors I bought and connected to the AF-3400
>EM do not work. I've calibrated them 7 times and they still fluctuate
>between full and 8 gallons when the tanks are full and fluctuate wildly
>when less than full. Perhaps I've done something wrong in the
>calibration - I know most errors are installation or operator errors -
>but, I tried to follow the AF-3400 instructions accurately.<end
>
>When I installed my capacitance senders I seem to remember having to
>drill a small hole at the highest point so that the fuel could drain
>back down the tube as necessary. It is possible that you have entrapped
>fuel in the tube that is being held there and needs to be released by a
>small vent.
>
>Regards,
>
>Phillip Johnson
>
>
>----------
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Radio noises |
is that answer in miles?
z747pilot wrote:
> Hey Flyers,
>
> A small formula here that may help you out: take the Square root of
> the antennea hight (aircraft hight) and multiply it by 2.23 and this
> should give you a rough idea of your VHF range.
>
> Regards,
>
> z747pilot
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Rodney Dunham
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:12 AM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: Radio noises
>
> Jeff,
>
> Just my $0.02 worth but...
>
> I think your friend suffers from what I consider to be the most common
> cause of dissatisfaction with VHF COMM performance in OBAM aircraft...
> unrealistic expectations!
>
> With all due respect, gentlemen...
>
> If the AM background noise is the same during flight as it is on the
> ground with the engine off, that's as good as it gets.
>
> If, while on the ground with the belly mounted antenna inches from the
> ground and upward radiation blocked by the aircraft itself, you can
> clearly understand ATC, ATIS and another plane 12 miles away, that's
> as good as it gets.
>
> The directionality of the "static" and the transmit is not curious at
> all. All antennae, except "ideal" antennae of urban legend, produce a
> signal strength pattern that is lobular. That is, the radio "reaches
> out" more (or less) in certain directions than others. With the
> antenna on the belly, there are numerous metallic objects nearby, like
> gear legs, that serve to produce sometimes dramatic and unpredictable
> signal strength lobes. So, once again, that's as good as it gets.
>
> Not sure on this one but... The fact that you can hear ATIS without an
> antenna just serves to underscore how good your radio is(!) and how
> close you are to the ATIS antenna. Bob has mentioned on this forum
> that we should not obsess over dimensions of marker beacon antennae
> because the MB signal is so strong and we're flying just dozens of
> yards over the thing that we'll get the info anyway. This is a similar
> situation I suspect.
>
> Again, if you guys can communicate "very clearly" from 20 miles apart,
> that's as good as it gets.
>
> "Ideas what should be done next?" Bolt it down, adjust the squelch and
> start punching holes in the sky!
>
> Enjoy.
>
> Rodney in Tennessee
> Unabashed Nuckollhead
>
> Standard Disclaimer: I'm no avionics engineer. But, I plan on staying
> in a Holiday Inn Express next month at the American Sonex Association
> Fly-in in Crossville, TN.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Hotmail. Try it now.
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>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
> *
>
>
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>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 6
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Good Morning Jerb,
I have found the same problem.
All these years of trusting the Duracell now destroyed! <G>
I had one leak in a four D cell Maglite. Could not get the offending cell
out. I contacted Duracell via their website and sent them the messed up
Maglite. It took a couple of months, but they did send me a check which almost
covered the cost of a new Maglite and the nine bucks I spent to send the
bad one to them.
I appreciate the customer service response, but I would like it better if I
could get back the confidence that I previously had in the Duracell!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 8/19/2009 10:18:07 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
ulflyer@verizon.net writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
That was my point, didn't used to have to worry about Duracells
leaking unless you left them for years and years which made them
worth more. Now they almost leak coming out of the package. I was
just trying to confirm if anyone else is experiencing this new
leaking symptom.
They have changed them in some way that is causing the recent
produced batteries to leak, (last 2-4 years). Previously I never had
a problem with them. Rayovacs used to have leaking problem,
Energizers were better in that regard but still would leak after a
longer period of time. Duracells seldom ever leak ever leak which
made them good choice for use in more expensive things like camera,
test equipment. etc. You paid a little more for them but you had
peace of mind that they wouldn't leak, not so any more.
I had a package of Duracell AAA that I was using for my PDA. They
normally last about 3 weeks to a month. The package I had were well
in shelf date, if they were even close to being run down you wanted
them out of the device. Once you had them out you better have them
in some container cause they would leak with a few weeks, Note I am
experiencing the same problem with other sizes as well.
Well, a couple of you have confirmed similar characteristics. I
know this topic was off from the normal list content but since
batteries have been a topic in the past by Bob I thought I would poll
the members to see if their recent experience has been similar to
mine. Guess I need to approach the company and see what they have to
say. At this point I've lost my confidence in their product.
jerb
At 01:09 AM 8/19/2009, you wrote:
>Just yesterday morning, I reached for my Frequency Counter, which I hadn't
>used for about a year, and found it dead. ....opened it up and pulled out
a
>Duracell 9Vdc battery - clean and dry - with the sticker (I put on every
>battery) reading 09OCT2003.
>Cheers, Ferg
>PS: Maybe they were good then....?
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Radio noises |
Jim:
In what units do you measure the antenna? Inches?
What if you have bent whip antenna? Is it the total length of the antenna or
the perpendicular distance from the fuselage?
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 8:18 AM, Jim Streit <wooody04@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> is that answer in miles?
>
> z747pilot wrote:
>
> Hey Flyers,
>
> A small formula here that may help you out: take the Square root of the
> antennea hight (aircraft hight) and multiply it by 2.23 and this should give
> you a rough idea of your VHF range.
>
> Regards,
>
> z747pilot
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
--
Tom Sargent
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 08/18/09 |
Bob,
In the last two years, I have lost 3 led flashlights and my ELT - all to Du
racell batteries. The new elt was upgraded to the 406 Mhz, so it cost me $6
50. Duracell guarantees $25 !!!
The led flashlights were more than this limit.
Several of my hanger mates have seen similar results with this brand batter
y. I heard that productin was moved to China - not confirmed.
No more Duracells - ever!
Glasair John III
Deep peace of the Light of the World to you. --------
-------------------------
---------------- --A Gaelic Blessing
>Hey Guys,
>Can't say about the batteries you have but the Duracells are not the
>battery they used to be.- You used to be able to put them into a
>piece of equipment and not have to worry about them leaking . . .
- - I've not experienced a leaking incident with
- - flashlight cells in years. I did loose a digital
- - caliper last month because an alkaline button cell
- - leaked . . . but it was a case where the tool was
- - stored for a long time with a discharged cell. Our
- - battery powered devices are working tools that generally
- - don't get stored for long periods of time with dead
- - cells.
. . . they were great for meters and cameras, not so any more.
- - I've not detected any 'changes' in these products
- - tendencies to leak in our regular change-out working
- - environment. Has anyone else on the list experienced
- - a messy event with their alkaline cells of any brand?
- - - - Bob . . .
- --
=0A=0A=0A
Message 9
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Ol' Bob,
Always glad to see your comments. I too had a 4 D cell Maglite go bad
with leaky Duracell's. I saved the flashlight using penetrating oil
down through the corrosion areas and the cells finally let go.
Interestingly, the Maglite cleaned up very well inside. I must be make
of or coated with a pretty good plating inside. I do not use the light
much as it is the auto light when needed to thump someone on the head or
search the trunk at night, etc. I also now open it every month or so
and roll out the D cells to check for any leaky critters.....
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: BobsV35B@aol.com
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Duracell
Good Morning Jerb,
I have found the same problem.
All these years of trusting the Duracell now destroyed! <G>
I had one leak in a four D cell Maglite. Could not get the offending
cell out. I contacted Duracell via their website and sent them the
messed up Maglite. It took a couple of months, but they did send me a
check which almost covered the cost of a new Maglite and the nine bucks
I spent to send the bad one to them.
I appreciate the customer service response, but I would like it better
if I could get back the confidence that I previously had in the
Duracell!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 8/19/2009 10:18:07 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
ulflyer@verizon.net writes:
That was my point, didn't used to have to worry about Duracells
leaking unless you left them for years and years which made them
worth more. Now they almost leak coming out of the package. I was
just trying to confirm if anyone else is experiencing this new
leaking symptom.
They have changed them in some way that is causing the recent
produced batteries to leak, (last 2-4 years). Previously I never
had
a problem with them. Rayovacs used to have leaking problem,
Energizers were better in that regard but still would leak after a
longer period of time. Duracells seldom ever leak ever leak which
made them good choice for use in more expensive things like camera,
test equipment. etc. You paid a little more for them but you had
peace of mind that they wouldn't leak, not so any more.
I had a package of Duracell AAA that I was using for my PDA. They
normally last about 3 weeks to a month. The package I had were well
in shelf date, if they were even close to being run down you wanted
them out of the device. Once you had them out you better have them
in some container cause they would leak with a few weeks, Note I am
experiencing the same problem with other sizes as well.
Well, a couple of you have confirmed similar characteristics. I
know this topic was off from the normal list content but since
batteries have been a topic in the past by Bob I thought I would
poll
the members to see if their recent experience has been similar to
mine. Guess I need to approach the company and see what they have
to
say. At this point I've lost my confidence in their product.
jerb
At 01:09 AM 8/19/2009, you wrote:
>Just yesterday morning, I reached for my Frequency Counter, which I
hadn't
>used for about a year, and found it dead. ....opened it up and
pulled out a
>Duracell 9Vdc battery - clean and dry - with the sticker (I put on
every
>battery) reading 09OCT2003.
>Cheers, Ferg
>PS: Maybe they were good
======================
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message 10
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Tom,
I believe what Jim is saying has NOTHING to do with antenna length. It
is
the ALTITUDE of the aircraft! So, the range is the square root of the
altitude times 2.23.
Maybe Tom can clarify this and give us units of measure.
Roger
Jim:
In what units do you measure the antenna? Inches?
What if you have bent whip antenna? Is it the total length of the
antenna or
the perpendicular distance from the fuselage?
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 8:18 AM, Jim Streit <wooody04@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
is that answer in miles?
z747pilot wrote:
Hey Flyers,
A small formula here that may help you out: take the Square root of the
antennea hight (aircraft hight) and multiply it by 2.23 and this should
give
you a rough idea of your VHF range.
Regards,
z747pilot
_____
--
Tom Sargent
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Radio noises |
Yes, of course! You should never read the RV-list while at work - it's too
distracting. Just stop work and focus on the list.
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 9:29 AM, ROGER & JEAN CURTIS <
mrspudandcompany@verizon.net> wrote:
> Tom,
>
>
> I believe what Jim is saying has NOTHING to do with antenna length. It is
> the ALTITUDE of the aircraft! So, the range is the square root of the
> altitude times 2.23.
>
>
> Roger
>
>
--
Tom Sargent
Message 12
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Altitude is in feet, range is in miles. - I think.
Tony
Velocity SEFG 62% done, 78% to go
www.alejandra.net/velocity
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ROGER
&
JEAN CURTIS
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 9:29 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Radio noises
Tom,
I believe what Jim is saying has NOTHING to do with antenna length. It
is
the ALTITUDE of the aircraft! So, the range is the square root of the
altitude times 2.23.
Maybe Tom can clarify this and give us units of measure.
Roger
Jim:
In what units do you measure the antenna? Inches?
What if you have bent whip antenna? Is it the total length of the
antenna or
the perpendicular distance from the fuselage?
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 8:18 AM, Jim Streit <wooody04@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
is that answer in miles?
z747pilot wrote:
Hey Flyers,
A small formula here that may help you out: take the Square root of the
antennea hight (aircraft hight) and multiply it by 2.23 and this should
give
you a rough idea of your VHF range.
Regards,
z747pilot
_____
--
Tom Sargent
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 13
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At 11:08 AM 8/19/2009, you wrote:
>Ol' Bob,
>Always glad to see your comments. I too had a 4 D cell Maglite go
>bad with leaky Duracell's. I saved the flashlight using penetrating
>oil down through the corrosion areas and the cells finally let
>go. Interestingly, the Maglite cleaned up very well inside. I must
>be make of or coated with a pretty good plating inside. I do not
>use the light much as it is the auto light when needed to thump
>someone on the head or search the trunk at night, etc. I also now
>open it every month or so and roll out the D cells to check for any
>leaky critters.....
Hmmmm . . . did a Goggle search on
Energizer battery leak 40,000 hits
Duracell battery leak 28,000 hits
Ray-o-Vac battery leak 19,000 hits
Read a few hits on each. Seems that somebody, somewhere,
has had some leaking experiences with about every kind
of cell.
No doubt there is a high probability of process
change or even root-source manufacturing for
any brand of alkaline cell. We've heard of many
instances where big brand manufacturers do
re-branded products on the same production line . . .
that retail for less because the off-brand is not burdened
with advertising costs.
Another increasing trend is the use of off-shore
manufacturing facilities for about ANY brand. It's
the free market way.
My personal experience with leaking cells has been
very limited . . . and I attribute that to the fact
that we cycle through fresh cells at a reasonably
fast pace . . . I'm more likely to replace a cell
because it fails to energize a tool I'm using right
now than to pick up a tool that has not been used
for a long time and discovered dead cells.
Certainly, applications that expose any cell to
extremes of temperature and long periods between
replacement are more likely to be leakers. This is
especially true of ELTs, flashlights and other
accessories that sit in a parked airplane.
It would be interesting to craft a study on consumer
flashlight cells on a par with the one in which I
participated that looked at aircraft batteries some years
back. It seems that our unusually burdensome failure
rate for batteries was attributable to how we
were handling batteries and not on variability in
quality.
I'm not suggesting that the same cause/effect applies
here . . . but I can suggest that seeking out and
finding root cause is a more rigorous activity
than anyone who frequents this List can fund. This
leaves us with anecdotal reports . . . of which there
are tens of thousands on the 'net to consider.
It may be true that Duracell's tendencies to
leak have increased over the years . . . but equally
probable that other brands are getting worse for
similar reasons. I seldom purchase name brand batteries
for reasons cited in . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/AA_Bat_Test.pdf
Of course, that study was limited to exploration
of contained energy. Each discharged cell was
discarded when the tests were over. Maybe I ought
to do it again but keep the dead cells laying around
(or boxed up on my patio) to see if I can encourage
them to leak.
Bob . . .
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