---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/19/09: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:10 AM - Duracell (Fergus Kyle) 2. 05:14 AM - Re: Calibrating fuel qty gauges (Johnson, Phillip (EXP)) 3. 08:17 AM - Re: Duracell (jerb) 4. 08:17 AM - Re: Re: Calibrating fuel qty gauges (jerb) 5. 08:24 AM - Re: Radio noises (Jim Streit) 6. 08:34 AM - Re: Duracell (BobsV35B@aol.com) 7. 08:46 AM - Re: Radio noises (thomas sargent) 8. 09:07 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 08/18/09 (John Markey) 9. 09:12 AM - Re: Duracell (David LLoyd) 10. 09:42 AM - Re: Radio noises (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS) 11. 11:24 AM - Re: Radio noises (thomas sargent) 12. 11:38 AM - Re: Radio noises (Tony Babb) 13. 12:29 PM - Re: Duracell (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:10:25 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Duracell Just yesterday morning, I reached for my Frequency Counter, which I hadn't used for about a year, and found it dead. ....opened it up and pulled out a Duracell 9Vdc battery - clean and dry - with the sticker (I put on every battery) reading 09OCT2003. Cheers, Ferg PS: Maybe they were good then....? ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:05 AM PST US From: "Johnson, Phillip (EXP)" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Calibrating fuel qty gauges My sensors are not Princeton but the principle is the same. I seem to remember drilling about a 1/16" or 3/32" hole at the top of the tube. Phillip Johnson ________________________________ From: Speedy11@aol.com [mailto:Speedy11@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 9:07 PM Cc: Johnson, Phillip (EXP) Subject: Re: Calibrating fuel qty gauges Phillip, Thanks for your response. Your idea may be correct. Not having the vent hole would cause a problem. As I recall, the Princeton senders did have a small (maybe a #40) hole drilled in the side to allow flow. But, I will check photos to see if that is correct. Thanks for the idea. Stan Sutterfield Do not archive Was Said> The Princeton Capacitance Sensors I bought and connected to the AF-3400 EM do not work. I've calibrated them 7 times and they still fluctuate between full and 8 gallons when the tanks are full and fluctuate wildly when less than full. Perhaps I've done something wrong in the calibration - I know most errors are installation or operator errors - but, I tried to follow the AF-3400 instructions accurately. Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Duracell That was my point, didn't used to have to worry about Duracells leaking unless you left them for years and years which made them worth more. Now they almost leak coming out of the package. I was just trying to confirm if anyone else is experiencing this new leaking symptom. They have changed them in some way that is causing the recent produced batteries to leak, (last 2-4 years). Previously I never had a problem with them. Rayovacs used to have leaking problem, Energizers were better in that regard but still would leak after a longer period of time. Duracells seldom ever leak ever leak which made them good choice for use in more expensive things like camera, test equipment. etc. You paid a little more for them but you had peace of mind that they wouldn't leak, not so any more. I had a package of Duracell AAA that I was using for my PDA. They normally last about 3 weeks to a month. The package I had were well in shelf date, if they were even close to being run down you wanted them out of the device. Once you had them out you better have them in some container cause they would leak with a few weeks, Note I am experiencing the same problem with other sizes as well. Well, a couple of you have confirmed similar characteristics. I know this topic was off from the normal list content but since batteries have been a topic in the past by Bob I thought I would poll the members to see if their recent experience has been similar to mine. Guess I need to approach the company and see what they have to say. At this point I've lost my confidence in their product. jerb At 01:09 AM 8/19/2009, you wrote: >Just yesterday morning, I reached for my Frequency Counter, which I hadn't >used for about a year, and found it dead. ....opened it up and pulled out a >Duracell 9Vdc battery - clean and dry - with the sticker (I put on every >battery) reading 09OCT2003. >Cheers, Ferg >PS: Maybe they were good then....? > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:05 AM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Calibrating fuel qty gauges Are you using 100LL or ethanol blend car gas. jerb At 05:12 AM 8/19/2009, you wrote: >My sensors are not Princeton but the principle is the same. I seem >to remember drilling about a 1/16" or 3/32" hole at the top of the tube. > >Phillip Johnson > > >---------- >From: Speedy11@aol.com [mailto:Speedy11@aol.com] >Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 9:07 PM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Cc: Johnson, Phillip (EXP) >Subject: Re: Calibrating fuel qty gauges > >Phillip, >Thanks for your response. >Your idea may be correct. Not having the vent hole would cause a >problem. As I recall, the Princeton senders did have a small (maybe >a #40) hole drilled in the side to allow flow. But, I will check >photos to see if that is correct. >Thanks for the idea. >Stan Sutterfield >Do not archive > >Was Said> >The Princeton Capacitance Sensors I bought and connected to the AF-3400 >EM do not work. I've calibrated them 7 times and they still fluctuate >between full and 8 gallons when the tanks are full and fluctuate wildly >when less than full. Perhaps I've done something wrong in the >calibration - I know most errors are installation or operator errors - >but, I tried to follow the AF-3400 instructions accurately. >When I installed my capacitance senders I seem to remember having to >drill a small hole at the highest point so that the fuel could drain >back down the tube as necessary. It is possible that you have entrapped >fuel in the tube that is being held there and needs to be released by a >small vent. > >Regards, > >Phillip Johnson > > >---------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:19 AM PST US From: Jim Streit Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio noises is that answer in miles? z747pilot wrote: > Hey Flyers, > > A small formula here that may help you out: take the Square root of > the antennea hight (aircraft hight) and multiply it by 2.23 and this > should give you a rough idea of your VHF range. > > Regards, > > z747pilot > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *Rodney Dunham > *Sent:* Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:12 AM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: Radio noises > > Jeff, > > Just my $0.02 worth but... > > I think your friend suffers from what I consider to be the most common > cause of dissatisfaction with VHF COMM performance in OBAM aircraft... > unrealistic expectations! > > With all due respect, gentlemen... > > If the AM background noise is the same during flight as it is on the > ground with the engine off, that's as good as it gets. > > If, while on the ground with the belly mounted antenna inches from the > ground and upward radiation blocked by the aircraft itself, you can > clearly understand ATC, ATIS and another plane 12 miles away, that's > as good as it gets. > > The directionality of the "static" and the transmit is not curious at > all. All antennae, except "ideal" antennae of urban legend, produce a > signal strength pattern that is lobular. That is, the radio "reaches > out" more (or less) in certain directions than others. With the > antenna on the belly, there are numerous metallic objects nearby, like > gear legs, that serve to produce sometimes dramatic and unpredictable > signal strength lobes. So, once again, that's as good as it gets. > > Not sure on this one but... The fact that you can hear ATIS without an > antenna just serves to underscore how good your radio is(!) and how > close you are to the ATIS antenna. Bob has mentioned on this forum > that we should not obsess over dimensions of marker beacon antennae > because the MB signal is so strong and we're flying just dozens of > yards over the thing that we'll get the info anyway. This is a similar > situation I suspect. > > Again, if you guys can communicate "very clearly" from 20 miles apart, > that's as good as it gets. > > "Ideas what should be done next?" Bolt it down, adjust the squelch and > start punching holes in the sky! > > Enjoy. > > Rodney in Tennessee > Unabashed Nuckollhead > > Standard Disclaimer: I'm no avionics engineer. But, I plan on staying > in a Holiday Inn Express next month at the American Sonex Association > Fly-in in Crossville, TN. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for > Hotmail. Try it now. > > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > * > * > > > * > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:49 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Duracell Good Morning Jerb, I have found the same problem. All these years of trusting the Duracell now destroyed! I had one leak in a four D cell Maglite. Could not get the offending cell out. I contacted Duracell via their website and sent them the messed up Maglite. It took a couple of months, but they did send me a check which almost covered the cost of a new Maglite and the nine bucks I spent to send the bad one to them. I appreciate the customer service response, but I would like it better if I could get back the confidence that I previously had in the Duracell! Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 8/19/2009 10:18:07 A.M. Central Daylight Time, ulflyer@verizon.net writes: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jerb That was my point, didn't used to have to worry about Duracells leaking unless you left them for years and years which made them worth more. Now they almost leak coming out of the package. I was just trying to confirm if anyone else is experiencing this new leaking symptom. They have changed them in some way that is causing the recent produced batteries to leak, (last 2-4 years). Previously I never had a problem with them. Rayovacs used to have leaking problem, Energizers were better in that regard but still would leak after a longer period of time. Duracells seldom ever leak ever leak which made them good choice for use in more expensive things like camera, test equipment. etc. You paid a little more for them but you had peace of mind that they wouldn't leak, not so any more. I had a package of Duracell AAA that I was using for my PDA. They normally last about 3 weeks to a month. The package I had were well in shelf date, if they were even close to being run down you wanted them out of the device. Once you had them out you better have them in some container cause they would leak with a few weeks, Note I am experiencing the same problem with other sizes as well. Well, a couple of you have confirmed similar characteristics. I know this topic was off from the normal list content but since batteries have been a topic in the past by Bob I thought I would poll the members to see if their recent experience has been similar to mine. Guess I need to approach the company and see what they have to say. At this point I've lost my confidence in their product. jerb At 01:09 AM 8/19/2009, you wrote: >Just yesterday morning, I reached for my Frequency Counter, which I hadn't >used for about a year, and found it dead. ....opened it up and pulled out a >Duracell 9Vdc battery - clean and dry - with the sticker (I put on every >battery) reading 09OCT2003. >Cheers, Ferg >PS: Maybe they were good then....? > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:46:43 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio noises From: thomas sargent Jim: In what units do you measure the antenna? Inches? What if you have bent whip antenna? Is it the total length of the antenna or the perpendicular distance from the fuselage? On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 8:18 AM, Jim Streit wrote: > is that answer in miles? > > z747pilot wrote: > > Hey Flyers, > > A small formula here that may help you out: take the Square root of the > antennea hight (aircraft hight) and multiply it by 2.23 and this should give > you a rough idea of your VHF range. > > Regards, > > z747pilot > > ------------------------------ > > -- Tom Sargent ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:07:35 AM PST US From: John Markey Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 08/18/09 Bob, In the last two years, I have lost 3 led flashlights and my ELT - all to Du racell batteries. The new elt was upgraded to the 406 Mhz, so it cost me $6 50. Duracell guarantees $25 !!! The led flashlights were more than this limit. Several of my hanger mates have seen similar results with this brand batter y. I heard that productin was moved to China - not confirmed. No more Duracells - ever! Glasair John III Deep peace of the Light of the World to you. -------- ------------------------- ---------------- --A Gaelic Blessing >Hey Guys, >Can't say about the batteries you have but the Duracells are not the >battery they used to be.- You used to be able to put them into a >piece of equipment and not have to worry about them leaking . . . - - I've not experienced a leaking incident with - - flashlight cells in years. I did loose a digital - - caliper last month because an alkaline button cell - - leaked . . . but it was a case where the tool was - - stored for a long time with a discharged cell. Our - - battery powered devices are working tools that generally - - don't get stored for long periods of time with dead - - cells. . . . they were great for meters and cameras, not so any more. - - I've not detected any 'changes' in these products - - tendencies to leak in our regular change-out working - - environment. Has anyone else on the list experienced - - a messy event with their alkaline cells of any brand? - - - - Bob . . . - -- =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:06 AM PST US From: "David LLoyd" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Duracell Ol' Bob, Always glad to see your comments. I too had a 4 D cell Maglite go bad with leaky Duracell's. I saved the flashlight using penetrating oil down through the corrosion areas and the cells finally let go. Interestingly, the Maglite cleaned up very well inside. I must be make of or coated with a pretty good plating inside. I do not use the light much as it is the auto light when needed to thump someone on the head or search the trunk at night, etc. I also now open it every month or so and roll out the D cells to check for any leaky critters..... Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: BobsV35B@aol.com To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 8:28 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Duracell Good Morning Jerb, I have found the same problem. All these years of trusting the Duracell now destroyed! I had one leak in a four D cell Maglite. Could not get the offending cell out. I contacted Duracell via their website and sent them the messed up Maglite. It took a couple of months, but they did send me a check which almost covered the cost of a new Maglite and the nine bucks I spent to send the bad one to them. I appreciate the customer service response, but I would like it better if I could get back the confidence that I previously had in the Duracell! Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 8/19/2009 10:18:07 A.M. Central Daylight Time, ulflyer@verizon.net writes: That was my point, didn't used to have to worry about Duracells leaking unless you left them for years and years which made them worth more. Now they almost leak coming out of the package. I was just trying to confirm if anyone else is experiencing this new leaking symptom. They have changed them in some way that is causing the recent produced batteries to leak, (last 2-4 years). Previously I never had a problem with them. Rayovacs used to have leaking problem, Energizers were better in that regard but still would leak after a longer period of time. Duracells seldom ever leak ever leak which made them good choice for use in more expensive things like camera, test equipment. etc. You paid a little more for them but you had peace of mind that they wouldn't leak, not so any more. I had a package of Duracell AAA that I was using for my PDA. They normally last about 3 weeks to a month. The package I had were well in shelf date, if they were even close to being run down you wanted them out of the device. Once you had them out you better have them in some container cause they would leak with a few weeks, Note I am experiencing the same problem with other sizes as well. Well, a couple of you have confirmed similar characteristics. I know this topic was off from the normal list content but since batteries have been a topic in the past by Bob I thought I would poll the members to see if their recent experience has been similar to mine. Guess I need to approach the company and see what they have to say. At this point I've lost my confidence in their product. jerb At 01:09 AM 8/19/2009, you wrote: >Just yesterday morning, I reached for my Frequency Counter, which I hadn't >used for about a year, and found it dead. ....opened it up and pulled out a >Duracell 9Vdc battery - clean and dry - with the sticker (I put on every >battery) reading 09OCT2003. >Cheers, Ferg >PS: Maybe they were good ====================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:10 AM PST US From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Radio noises Tom, I believe what Jim is saying has NOTHING to do with antenna length. It is the ALTITUDE of the aircraft! So, the range is the square root of the altitude times 2.23. Maybe Tom can clarify this and give us units of measure. Roger Jim: In what units do you measure the antenna? Inches? What if you have bent whip antenna? Is it the total length of the antenna or the perpendicular distance from the fuselage? On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 8:18 AM, Jim Streit wrote: is that answer in miles? z747pilot wrote: Hey Flyers, A small formula here that may help you out: take the Square root of the antennea hight (aircraft hight) and multiply it by 2.23 and this should give you a rough idea of your VHF range. Regards, z747pilot _____ -- Tom Sargent ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:24:18 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio noises From: thomas sargent Yes, of course! You should never read the RV-list while at work - it's too distracting. Just stop work and focus on the list. On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 9:29 AM, ROGER & JEAN CURTIS < mrspudandcompany@verizon.net> wrote: > Tom, > > > I believe what Jim is saying has NOTHING to do with antenna length. It is > the ALTITUDE of the aircraft! So, the range is the square root of the > altitude times 2.23. > > > Roger > > -- Tom Sargent ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:49 AM PST US From: "Tony Babb" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Radio noises Altitude is in feet, range is in miles. - I think. Tony Velocity SEFG 62% done, 78% to go www.alejandra.net/velocity -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ROGER & JEAN CURTIS Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 9:29 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Radio noises Tom, I believe what Jim is saying has NOTHING to do with antenna length. It is the ALTITUDE of the aircraft! So, the range is the square root of the altitude times 2.23. Maybe Tom can clarify this and give us units of measure. Roger Jim: In what units do you measure the antenna? Inches? What if you have bent whip antenna? Is it the total length of the antenna or the perpendicular distance from the fuselage? On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 8:18 AM, Jim Streit wrote: is that answer in miles? z747pilot wrote: Hey Flyers, A small formula here that may help you out: take the Square root of the antennea hight (aircraft hight) and multiply it by 2.23 and this should give you a rough idea of your VHF range. Regards, z747pilot _____ -- Tom Sargent http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:29:39 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Duracell At 11:08 AM 8/19/2009, you wrote: >Ol' Bob, >Always glad to see your comments. I too had a 4 D cell Maglite go >bad with leaky Duracell's. I saved the flashlight using penetrating >oil down through the corrosion areas and the cells finally let >go. Interestingly, the Maglite cleaned up very well inside. I must >be make of or coated with a pretty good plating inside. I do not >use the light much as it is the auto light when needed to thump >someone on the head or search the trunk at night, etc. I also now >open it every month or so and roll out the D cells to check for any >leaky critters..... Hmmmm . . . did a Goggle search on Energizer battery leak 40,000 hits Duracell battery leak 28,000 hits Ray-o-Vac battery leak 19,000 hits Read a few hits on each. Seems that somebody, somewhere, has had some leaking experiences with about every kind of cell. No doubt there is a high probability of process change or even root-source manufacturing for any brand of alkaline cell. We've heard of many instances where big brand manufacturers do re-branded products on the same production line . . . that retail for less because the off-brand is not burdened with advertising costs. Another increasing trend is the use of off-shore manufacturing facilities for about ANY brand. It's the free market way. My personal experience with leaking cells has been very limited . . . and I attribute that to the fact that we cycle through fresh cells at a reasonably fast pace . . . I'm more likely to replace a cell because it fails to energize a tool I'm using right now than to pick up a tool that has not been used for a long time and discovered dead cells. Certainly, applications that expose any cell to extremes of temperature and long periods between replacement are more likely to be leakers. This is especially true of ELTs, flashlights and other accessories that sit in a parked airplane. It would be interesting to craft a study on consumer flashlight cells on a par with the one in which I participated that looked at aircraft batteries some years back. It seems that our unusually burdensome failure rate for batteries was attributable to how we were handling batteries and not on variability in quality. I'm not suggesting that the same cause/effect applies here . . . but I can suggest that seeking out and finding root cause is a more rigorous activity than anyone who frequents this List can fund. This leaves us with anecdotal reports . . . of which there are tens of thousands on the 'net to consider. It may be true that Duracell's tendencies to leak have increased over the years . . . but equally probable that other brands are getting worse for similar reasons. I seldom purchase name brand batteries for reasons cited in . . . http://aeroelectric.com/articles/AA_Bat_Test.pdf Of course, that study was limited to exploration of contained energy. Each discharged cell was discarded when the tests were over. Maybe I ought to do it again but keep the dead cells laying around (or boxed up on my patio) to see if I can encourage them to leak. 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