Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:53 AM - Re: Re: Transponder Re-Check? ()
2. 05:12 AM - Re: Sensor wires with ignition leads (nuckollsr)
3. 05:19 AM - Re: Re: CHT probes (Harley)
4. 08:42 AM - D10-A can't see compass module (thomas sargent)
5. 08:56 AM - Re: D10-A can't see compass module (Sam Hoskins)
6. 09:07 AM - Shielded wire for wingtip strobe (dalemed)
7. 09:53 AM - Protecting the compass from interference ()
8. 10:24 AM - Re: Protecting the compass from interference (Sam Hoskins)
9. 12:06 PM - Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe (nuckollsr)
10. 12:17 PM - Re: Protecting the compass from interference ()
11. 12:19 PM - Re: Protecting the compass from interference (Kevin Horton)
12. 01:55 PM - Re: D10-A can't see compass module (Rodney Dunham)
13. 02:24 PM - Re: Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe (Doug Ilg)
14. 02:50 PM - Re: D10-A can't see compass module (thomas sargent)
15. 03:48 PM - Re: Protecting the compass from interference (Ivan Carlson)
16. 05:48 PM - Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe (dalemed)
17. 05:48 PM - Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe (dalemed)
18. 06:06 PM - Why Brass Bolt for ground terminal? (dave.gribble@mchsi.com)
19. 07:25 PM - Re: Why Brass Bolt for ground terminal? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 07:32 PM - Re: Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 07:43 PM - Re: Protecting the compass from interference (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Transponder Re-Check? |
Sounds to me like you have already made your mind up to have the recheck done.
Personnally I would see if the original people who did the check just before the
failure will recheck it again for free since they probably want to have good
customer feedback. They should be concerned about what kind of reputation they
will get.
You should at least ask them about it.
Rodney Hall
---- Don Curry <don.curry@inbox.com> wrote:
>
> I'm fighting that very temptation. However, all too often if a person will compromise
once, s/he'll do it again. And I don't want to be that person. As
near as I can tell, it's best just to play by the rules. After all, it's a hobby,
right? Don
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: alfranken@msn.com
> > Sent: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:31:05 -0700
> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Transponder Re-Check?
> >
> >
> > Here's a realistic idea.
> >
> > When your transponder comes back, put it in and forget about the
> > paperwork.
> >
> > Al
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260540#260540
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Sensor wires with ignition leads |
Bundling the wires of different and potentially antagonistic systems is quite practical
and in fact a foregone conclusion in the TC aircraft world. There's a
suite of tests conducted for all electro-whizzies that quantifies potential victimization/antagonism
factors when installed per the manufacturer's instructions.
While building wire bundles for biz jets consisting of a hundred miles of wire
and very limited options for wire routing, the LAST challenge anyone wants to
address is a requirement for keeping the wires of one system separated from the
wires of another system.
The general rule is that unless the manufacturer demands that such separations
be established, don't worry about it. It they DO make such demands, you may wish
to consider an alternative system. Separation requirements arise from lack
of due diligence in crafting an installer and user friendly system. Lack of diligence
in issues of environmental co-existence aboard airplanes should make one
wonder if other qualities you seek are likewise lacking.
Bob . . .
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260592#260592
Message 3
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Doug Baleshta wrote:
>
> I don't think I've seen this anywhere on the list, but is there a difference
between a type K thermocouple ring style (sits under the sparkplug between the
sparkplug and the head) vs the straight style that screws into the head? And,
I believe Bob (or someone) mentioned that standard aircraft wire can connect
to the thermocouple wires if they are not long enough, provided the lengths
are identical, is that correct?
>
> thanks
> Doug
Morning, Doug...
I'll let someone else answer the difference between mounting a TC under
the plug and in the head...obviously, the temperatures will read
differently, but as far as I know, once you get used to what your
readings are, either method is acceptable.
As for connecting thermocouples, for the most accurate reading, the
wires AND connectors along the entire length, right up to and including
the instrument reading the signal itself, should all be of the same two
dissimilar materials. This includes any terminal or plug connections as
well. These are available at any supply house that deals in
thermocouples and are not expensive. Omega Engineering is a great source
of information and components and is online. It was one source of TC
and RTD supplies in my other life when I was involved in automating a
pharmaceutical company's manufacturing.
A TC is simply two wires of dissimilar material connected at one end.
The different types of TC (J,K,T, etc.) have different sets of materials
in them for different ranges of temperature.
Thermocouples don't work by having a voltage or signal supplied to
them, but are generators of a very small voltage themselves, which
changes slightly as the temperature changes. Monitoring this voltage
change is what the readout instrument does, then massages the reading
and converts it to numbers that relate to a temperature scale that you
have selected.
Connecting ANY two dissimilar metals, not just the ones used in TCs,
will produce voltages. So, connecting the specific wire in a
thermocouple (iron, constantin, etc.) to another type of wire or
connector (copper, steel, brass, aluminum, etc.)along the route to the
instrument will (not "might") generate additional voltages that may add
to or degrade the signal you are trying to read.
For accurate readings, all the wire and connectors should be the same
material as used in the TC itself. So, since the two wires in a TC are
DIFFERENT materials, even when using TC extension wire or thermocouple
couplers or plugs, be sure to connect the wires to the terminal or
extension wire that is the same material (they are color coded) or you
could seriously degrade or even cancel your signal. Remember, even
solder (which is lead or tin) will generate it's own voltages in
contract with the TC wire, and will degrade the signal between the two
wires, so use compatible mechanical connections wherever possible. Many
TC materials don't solder well anyway.
For a clearer description, read this: www.omega.com/thermocouples.html
and this:
www.omega.com/techref/themointro.html
Harley Dixon
Message 4
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Subject: | D10-A can't see compass module |
I have hooked up my remote compass module to my D10-A for the first time and
the D10-A complains it can't find the compass module. I ohmed out the cable
and it seems to be correct. Has any one had this problem? The thing has
sat on the shelf for 2 or 3 years so the internal battery is completely
dead, if that makes any difference.
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A final assembly
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: D10-A can't see compass module |
Tom - you might want to post this message on the Dynon company's direct
support forum.
http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl
Sam
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:32 AM, thomas sargent <sarg314@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have hooked up my remote compass module to my D10-A for the first time
> and the D10-A complains it can't find the compass module. I ohmed out the
> cable and it seems to be correct. Has any one had this problem? The thing
> has sat on the shelf for 2 or 3 years so the internal battery is completely
> dead, if that makes any difference.
>
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A final assembly
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Shielded wire for wingtip strobe |
I'm getting ready to install an Aveo wingtip LED stobe on my all-aluminum wing.
I ran some bench tests and found quite a bit of switching noise on the stobe
wire. I'm assuming I should use shielded wire for this line and I'm assuming
I should ground the shield on only one end.
Which end of the shield should I ground or does it matter?
I'm new to this list so I apologize if this question has been asked and answered
a lot of times. I did a search of the list but nothing jumped out at me.
Thanks!
--------
Dale
Flying Cessna 170B
Building Zenith CH650
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260638#260638
Message 7
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Subject: | Protecting the compass from interference |
Is there anything I use as a shield to protect my compass (panel
mounted) from interference with surrounding neighbors? I was thinking
about dipping it in lead. Perhaps I could wrap it in tin foil?
Thanks,
Glenn
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Protecting the compass from interference |
So, you want to prevent the compass from receiving magnetic influences? If
you do that, it may not work so well.
You are going to have to eliminate the outside influences or move the
compass. You might possibly gain something by wrapping the sources with a
ferrous material, but that sounds like a loser too.
Sam
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 11:46 AM, <longg@pjm.com> wrote:
>
> Is there anything I use as a shield to protect my compass (panel
> mounted) from interference with surrounding neighbors? I was thinking
> about dipping it in lead. Perhaps I could wrap it in tin foil?
>
> Thanks,
> Glenn
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe |
Shielding has a VERY limited, VERY specific effect on the propagation of noise
from one wire to another. How did you 'measure' switching noise? Just holding
your hand-held transceiver close to the product or its leadwires is not a very
telling experiment. Your handheld can and will detect close proximity noises
that have little or nothing to do with operational aspects of making your 'noisy'
device co-exist with potential 'victims' of that noise.
What does the manufacturer say about noise issues? Email them and ASK if they're
aware of any customers that have encountered noise issues and what they did
about them. It's a 99% bet that an inline filter would be necessary to take care
of noise that is CONDUCTED on the power wires. These are not the kinds of noises
that will couple from one wire to the next because there is no shielding.
Bob . . .
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260660#260660
Message 10
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Subject: | Protecting the compass from interference |
Correct, thanks Sam. Looks like there may be a move scheduled for the
compass.
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam
Hoskins
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Protecting the compass from interference
So, you want to prevent the compass from receiving magnetic influences?
If you do that, it may not work so well.
You are going to have to eliminate the outside influences or move the
compass. You might possibly gain something by wrapping the sources with
a ferrous material, but that sounds like a loser too.
Sam
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 11:46 AM, <longg@pjm.com> wrote:
Is there anything I use as a shield to protect my compass (panel
mounted) from interference with surrounding neighbors? I was thinking
about dipping it in lead. Perhaps I could wrap it in tin foil?
Thanks,
Glenn
-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Protecting the compass from interference |
Supposedly, some magnetic interference issues can be solved by
wrapping the source of the interfering magnetism in mu-metal, a nickel-
iron alloy with very high magnetic permeability.
Kevin Horton
On 31-Aug-09, at 13:18 , Sam Hoskins wrote:
> So, you want to prevent the compass from receiving magnetic
> influences? If you do that, it may not work so well.
>
> You are going to have to eliminate the outside influences or move
> the compass. You might possibly gain something by wrapping the
> sources with a ferrous material, but that sounds like a loser too.
>
> Sam
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 11:46 AM, <longg@pjm.com> wrote:
>
> Is there anything I use as a shield to protect my compass (panel
> mounted) from interference with surrounding neighbors? I was thinking
> about dipping it in lead. Perhaps I could wrap it in tin foil?
>
> Thanks,
> Glenn
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | D10-A can't see compass module |
Tom=2C
I had the same problem with my D10A. It was a bad OAT probe.
Check the resistance across the 3 wires. You do have the one with 3 wires
=2C don't you?
You can call Dynon for the actual numbers=2C I've slept since then.
Before you call them=2C update the firmware to the latest edition on all yo
ur Dynon products and attempt to reinstall.
Rodney in Tennessee
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: D10-A can't see compass module
From: sam.hoskins@gmail.com
Tom - you might want to post this message on the Dynon company's direct sup
port forum.
http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl
Sam
On Mon=2C Aug 31=2C 2009 at 10:32 AM=2C thomas sargent <sarg314@gmail.com>
wrote:
I have hooked up my remote compass module to my D10-A for the first time an
d the D10-A complains it can't find the compass module. I ohmed out the ca
ble and it seems to be correct. Has any one had this problem? The thing h
as sat on the shelf for 2 or 3 years so the internal battery is completely
dead=2C if that makes any difference.
--
Tom Sargent=2C RV-6A final assembly
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on
Facebook.
http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL
:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe |
I also have a set of these lights. Iam not to the point of installing and I have
not conducted any experiments, but the manufacturer says that no shielding is
needed. It's one of their selling points. All the flashy bits for the LEDs are
inside the idividual light heads, so all you need to supply is 7-32 VDC. I
guess that doesn't guarantee that no noise can leak out onto the powerleads, but
they claim it's a"noise free" installation.
FWIW
Doug Ilg
Grumman Tiger N74818, College ParkAirport (KCGS), Maryland
Challenger II LSS (N641LGreserved)- kit underway at Laurel Suburban (W18)
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: D10-A can't see compass module |
Rodney:
I didn't order the OAT option. I have a separate OAT gauge.
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Rodney Dunham <rdunhamtn@hotmail.com>wrote:
> Tom,
>
> I had the same problem with my D10A. It was a bad OAT probe.
>
> Check the resistance across the 3 wires. You do have the one with 3 wires,
> don't you?
>
> You can call Dynon for the actual numbers, I've slept since then.
>
> Before you call them, update the firmware to the latest edition on all your
> Dynon products and attempt to reinstall.
>
> Rodney in Tennessee
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
--
Tom Sargent
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Protecting the compass from interference |
There is something called mu metal available a Aircraft Spruce. I know
of some who used it that had a similar problem and it worked.
No guarantees.
Ivan Carlson
From: longg@pjm.com
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:53 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Protecting the compass from interference
Correct, thanks Sam. Looks like there may be a move scheduled for the
compass.
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam
Hoskins
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Protecting the compass from interference
So, you want to prevent the compass from receiving magnetic influences?
If you do that, it may not work so well.
You are going to have to eliminate the outside influences or move the
compass. You might possibly gain something by wrapping the sources with
a ferrous material, but that sounds like a loser too.
Sam
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 11:46 AM, <longg@pjm.com> wrote:
Is there anything I use as a shield to protect my compass (panel
mounted) from interference with surrounding neighbors? I was thinking
about dipping it in lead. Perhaps I could wrap it in tin foil?
Thanks,
Glenn
-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-Listhttp://forums.matroni
cs.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe |
I ran about 15 feet of wire from a battery to the strobe. When an AM weather Band
radio was anywhere within 10 feet of the circuit, there was considerable noise
in the radio.
I didn't get any information with my lights. Any info I got was from their website.
Where did you read that they are "noise free"? The spikes I see on the
power lines using an oscilloscope would indicate otherwise.
In any event, I don't see where the use of shielded wire would hurt. I'd like
to know the best way/place to ground the shield.
Thanks for your feedback!
--------
Dale
Flying Cessna 170B
Building Zenith CH650
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260732#260732
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe |
I ran about 15 feet of wire from a battery to the strobe. When an AM weather Band
radio was anywhere within 10 feet of the circuit, there was considerable noise
in the radio.
I didn't get any information with my lights. Any info I got was from their website.
Where did you read that they are "noise free"? The spikes I see on the
power lines using an oscilloscope would indicate otherwise.
In any event, I don't see where the use of shielded wire would hurt. I'd like
to know the best way/place to ground the shield.
Thanks for your feedback!
--------
Dale
Flying Cessna 170B
Building Zenith CH650
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260733#260733
Message 18
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Subject: | Why Brass Bolt for ground terminal? |
I'm building a firewall ground terminal system consisting of faston tabs soldered
to sheets of brass stock. I'll sandwich these around the RV firewall (thin
stainless steel) and use a big bolt on one side to attach the battery and engine
ground straps to.
I see that the B&C version of this calls for a brass bolt - what is the reason
for this, and also what size of bolt to use? I assume it is a dissimilar metals
corrosion problem... I have designed for a few smaller #8 bolts to hold the
brass sheets together.. do these have to be brass too?
Thanks for any info,
Dave Gribble
Cedar Rapids IA
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Why Brass Bolt for ground terminal? |
At 08:00 PM 8/31/2009, you wrote:
>
>I'm building a firewall ground terminal system consisting of faston
>tabs soldered to sheets of brass stock. I'll sandwich these around
>the RV firewall (thin stainless steel) and use a big bolt on one
>side to attach the battery and engine ground straps to.
>
>I see that the B&C version of this calls for a brass bolt - what is
>the reason for this, and also what size of bolt to use? I assume it
>is a dissimilar metals corrosion problem... I have designed for a
>few smaller #8 bolts to hold the brass sheets together.. do these
>have to be brass too?
If the Big bolt is long (like through a composite
firewall) the brass bolt is preferred for electrical
conductivity. But for a thin firewall, regular AN
hardware is fine. The #8 hardware is mechanical only,
plain vanilla AN hardware there too.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe |
At 07:48 PM 8/31/2009, you wrote:
>
>I ran about 15 feet of wire from a battery to the strobe. When an
>AM weather Band radio was anywhere within 10 feet of the circuit,
>there was considerable noise in the radio.
>
>I didn't get any information with my lights. Any info I got was
>from their website. Where did you read that they are "noise
>free"? The spikes I see on the power lines using an oscilloscope
>would indicate otherwise.
>
>In any event, I don't see where the use of shielded wire would
>hurt. I'd like to know the best way/place to ground the shield.
Shielded wire may not hurt . . . but it most certainly
won't help. Shielding is NOT a radio frequency interference
fix. If there is CONDUCTED noise on your strobe supply
leads then adding a shielded wire only insures that any
noise present is carried with better efficiency to the
bus an on to the rest of the airplane. Conducted noise
must be filtered at the antagonist. This and similar
products are called for if the devices prove to be troublesome.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9006/9006-700A.pdf
Here's a noisy LED driver that has been upgraded with
an appropriate RF noise filter.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9051/9051-700A.pdf
Shielding is more weight, more installed complexity
and essentially ineffectual on anything except electro-
statically coupled noises in wire bundles.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: Protecting the compass from interference |
At 11:46 AM 8/31/2009, you wrote:
>
>Is there anything I use as a shield to protect my compass (panel
>mounted) from interference with surrounding neighbors? I was thinking
>about dipping it in lead. Perhaps I could wrap it in tin foil?
>
>Thanks,
>Glenn
The magnetic compass is intended to deduce alignment of
the earth's magnetic field (on the order of 500 milliGauss)
and produce a useful navigation display based thereon.
Your query doesn't give us a good sense of any problems
you may be having. ALL compasses installed on ALL vehicles
are subject to external influences that tend to distort
the field of interest. This is why the compass is "swung" or
calibrated at the compass rose after installation. Further,
swinging the compass is done with a known condition for
certain electrical system components being ON or OFF.
There is no value in attempting to isolate surrounding
effects with special shielding. If there is some accessory
that causes a major swing in compass reading, then you
increase the separation between compass and antagonist.
The last compass issue I worked was on the Bonanza after
the B&C standby alternator was installed. Magnetic leakage
from the alternator on the back of the engine produced
an unacceptable deviation to the compass reading when mounted
on the glare shield. Moving the compass to a previously
qualified location higher on the windshield fixed the problem.
The BEST compasses are remotely sensed with the transducer
in the tailcone or out on wing.
But your panel mounted GPS should be backed up with
a hand held GPS . . . the compass has become a historical
curiosity of limited usefulness.
Bob . . .
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( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
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