Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:22 AM - Shielded wire for wingtip strobe ()
2. 05:32 AM - Re: Fried Master switch wires (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 05:35 AM - Re: wiring diagram (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 05:41 AM - Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 05:43 AM - Re: Re: Sensor wires with ignition leads (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 06:01 AM - Re: Protecting the compass from interference (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 06:44 AM - Re: Why Brass Bolt for ground terminal? (Eric M. Jones)
8. 06:48 AM - Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe (Bob Collins)
9. 06:48 AM - King K76 pinout (Jay Hyde)
10. 06:48 AM - Alternator connections (Jay Hyde)
11. 06:49 AM - Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe (Bob Collins)
12. 06:54 AM - Re: Protecting the compass from interference (Johnson, Phillip (EXP))
13. 07:20 AM - Re: Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe (Chris Stone)
14. 07:44 AM - Re: King K76 pinout (b e)
15. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe (Matt Prather)
16. 07:52 AM - Re: Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 07:54 AM - Re: King K76 pinout (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 08:14 AM - Re: Alternator connections (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 08:16 AM - Re: Protecting the compass from interference ()
20. 08:29 AM - Re: Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe (Bob Collins)
21. 08:45 AM - Compass interference protection (CardinalNSB@aol.com)
22. 08:47 AM - Re: Protecting the compass from interference (Bruce Gray)
23. 08:50 AM - Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 09:05 AM - Re: Protecting the compass from interference (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
25. 09:11 AM - rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane (Bill Bradburry)
26. 09:12 AM - New Z-figure (Corvair) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
27. 09:28 AM - New Z-figure (Corvair) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
28. 09:43 AM - Re: Protecting the compass from interference (Bob Leffler)
29. 09:54 AM - Re: rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane (SteinAir, Inc.)
30. 10:11 AM - Re: rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane (Matt Prather)
31. 10:11 AM - Re: rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane (Matt Prather)
32. 10:20 AM - Re: rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
33. 11:21 AM - Re: New Z-figure (Corvair) (Roger)
34. 12:12 PM - How to convert Z12 to Z14 (DCS317@aol.com)
35. 12:12 PM - Re: ELT panel remote test (David LLoyd)
36. 12:23 PM - Re: rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane (David M)
37. 12:30 PM - Re: rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane (David M)
38. 12:39 PM - Re: rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
39. 12:48 PM - Re: How to convert Z12 to Z14 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
40. 01:05 PM - Re: New Z-figure (Corvair) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
41. 02:58 PM - Re: New Z-figure (Corvair) (ray)
42. 03:51 PM - Re: New Z-figure (Corvair) (Franz Fux)
43. 03:57 PM - Re: rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane (Kevin Horton)
44. 05:10 PM - Re: rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane (Kelly McMullen)
45. 05:15 PM - Re: rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane (Matt Prather)
46. 05:24 PM - Alternator choices (Colm O'Reilly)
47. 05:28 PM - Re: New Z-figure (Corvair) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
48. 05:43 PM - Changing Z12 to the Z14 electrical system (DCS317@aol.com)
49. 06:35 PM - Re: rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane (Charlie England)
50. 06:35 PM - Re: New Z-figure (Corvair) (ray)
51. 07:36 PM - Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe ()
52. 07:45 PM - Re: New Z-figure (Corvair) (Neal George)
53. 07:53 PM - Another power distribution scheme (Joel Jacobs)
54. 08:08 PM - Re: New Z-figure (Corvair) (Ernest Christley)
55. 08:14 PM - Re: New Z-figure (Corvair) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
56. 09:57 PM - What single failure of installed equipment prompts me to change to Z14... (DCS317@aol.com)
Message 1
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Shielded wire for wingtip strobe |
9/2/2009
Hello Bob, You wrote: "What should I do with the shield wire at that
location?"
Below is a copy of my 2/16/2005 posting from the archives addressing this
question.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
=============================================
2/16/2005
Hello Jay, Here is how I solved that problem.
1) I bought some additional connectors and pins of the type that plugs into
the Whelen power supply. They are available from Terminal Town and other
sources.
2) I ran a cut end of the Whelen provided cables in a continuous snake from
each wing tip light all the way to my single power supply in the fuselage
leaving a coil of excess cable in the fuselage near each wing root.
3) Then I installed the connectors on the cable cut end and plugged into the
power supply.
4) If I ever have to remove my one piece wing I will just unplug the two
cable connectors from the power supply, cut the connectors off the cable
ends, and pull the cables out of the fuselage.##
5) When I reinstall the wing I just go through the same process as when
originally installing the wing by snaking the cable ends dangling from the
wing root into the power supply, reinstalling the connectors, and plugging
back into the power supply.
Considering how seldom one pulls the wings off and how little effort and
cost is involved in cutting off and reinstalling the cable end connectors
this is the best solution for me. It also eliminates an additional cable
connection junction at the wing root.
OC
##PS: If one were a really fastidious and pecunious type one could not cut
off the connectors, but rather just extract the pins from the connectors for
wing removal, and then reinsert the pins upon wing reinstall.
End Msg: #136
============================================================
Time: 05:52:52 AM PST US
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe
Somewhat related question. I have the Whelen Comet system for my RV-7A, It
has shielded cable, of course, the power unit out to the wingtip strobe,
with the shield grounded at the power unit.
But, because there's a chance I won't be able to fly my project off the
field where it's now being built, I may hve to take the wings off and truck
it to anothre airport, so I want to use a terminal strip at the inboard wing
root, so that the wires can be disconnected. What should I do with the
shield wire at that location. Should I treat it like any other wire and
connect it at the terminal strip and continue it out to the wing tip? Or
should I just terminate it at the wing root?
Message 2
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Fried Master switch wires |
At 03:26 PM 9/1/2009, you wrote:
Here is a real puzzle.
I used Bob's Z-11 wiring plan to structure my wiring system in my RV.
All was well (3 years) until I inadvertently jumped a dead battery
and reversed polarity. The master switch wire that runs from the
switch to the master relay, that powers up the starter relay burned
(smoked actually). Nothing else burned, just ancillary damage to wire
insulation from the melted insulation on the master to ground and
master to relay and 7 burned fuses.
There was a diode on both relays. The yellow diode on the MR showed
discoloration (a small brown spot) but appeared intact. I replaced
all the master wiring and the Odyssey battery and tried to lite it.
Again it smoked the master wires to the MR and to ground.
"Appearing intact" doesn't mean it was not damaged.
In fact, the reversed polarity on this device caused
the coil of your contactor to appear shorted which is
why the control wire burned. The same current fused
the diode's junction causing it to become shorted
which caused your contactor to appear shorted after
the wire was replaced.
Then I replaced the MR, the Starter Relay, both diodes AND the master
switch along with the burned up wire. Seems fine now and I flew it
home. The problem is this. Except for the Yellow MR diode frying
during the second attempt, nothing in that circuit appears damaged.
We cut open the MR and it is as new inside. Same with the Master
Switch....contact are normal appearing. So what happened the second
time??? Why does everything appear OK on inspection?
The contactor itself would not have been damaged.
It's not a polarity sensitive device. Replacing
the diodes and damaged wire was all that was
necessary.
One side note....except for a loss of a battery, one microphone jack
and the Alternator now putting out only 13.9 volts, the rest of the
avionics and electrical system appear unharmed. Burned out 7 fuses on
the first incident, but no apparent damage to the expensive
equipment. That alone makes fuses superior to circuit breakers in my mind.
I DO favor them for their much faster response to
an overload condition. The first condition (initial
application of reverse polarity) was the only
one that put your system at risk. The second event
was because the diode was also shorted causing a
large fault current to flow in the replacement
wire. The contactors would have been okay to leave
in.
I appreciate any electrical Guru's thoughts on this event and what I
might still need to do to insure safety in flight. Not knowing what
caused the second event makes me a bit nervous that It might still be
lurking. Smoke in the cockpit is not good!
You're experience is not uncommon. I reversed a
set of jumper cables on a couple of cars last
winter when I was working in the dark and it
was snowing on me! In most automotive applications,
the diode array in the alternators is what
keeps the system from going negative by more
than a couple of volts. This may have figured
strongly in your experience too.
This is another example of how adding a ground
power jack (with ov and reverse polarity protection)
would have proved useful. I'm pleased that the
outcome of your experience was so benign . . . it
could have been much worse.
I'm mystified about the microphone jack. What
kind of voltage regulator does your airplane have?
If it's a built in regulator and it shifted in
regulation set point as a consequence of this
event, then it HAS been affected and is now suspect.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 3
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: wiring diagram |
At 08:00 PM 9/1/2009, you wrote:
>Bob
>Is there a link to your wiring diagrams? Particularly the 2 alts 2
>battery all electric airplane. I can't locate mine. I probably put
>it where I would be sure to find it HA HA ;-)
>
>James Robinson
Good morning Jim. Haven't talked with you in quite
some time.
All of my drawings are on the website. The whole
package is at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/
. . . the drawing you're asking about is probably
this one . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z14N1.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z14N2.pdf
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 4
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe |
At 06:20 AM 9/2/2009, you wrote:
>
>9/2/2009
>
>Hello Bob, You wrote: "What should I do with the shield wire at that
>location?"
>
>Below is a copy of my 2/16/2005 posting from the archives addressing
>this question.
<snip>
I think we're talking two different systems here. The
classic strobe systems are xenon flash tubes supplied
with high voltage (300v) to light up and triggered by still
higher voltage (10Kv) to flash. These systems come with
shielded wire in the installation kit.
The strobe that is the subject of this tread is an
LED device. We're not talking about the wires
between a hv power supply and strobe heads but the
14v ship's power wire to the device.
Unless the manufacture calls out shielded wire
(and this should NEVER happen on a 14v supply
wire) then potential victim/antagonist pairs
have been identified and shielding is not useful.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 5
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Sensor wires with ignition leads |
At 07:18 PM 9/1/2009, you wrote:
>Bob, I'm building an RV7A (not much guidance from the "manufacturer"
>on this issue). Am I to conclude from your comments below that I
>might be better off separating the EGT and CHT sensor wires from the
>ignition leads.
>
>If the sensor wires are run with the ignition leads what possible
>adversities might I be facing. Might I get radio noise. Might I get
>erroneous instrument readings from the EGT and CHT guages.
No . . . CHT/EGT sensors are thermocouples which
are exceedingly low impedance systems and are not
potential victims to the noises which do exist
within and around spark plug wires.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 6
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Protecting the compass from interference |
At 03:13 PM 9/1/2009, you wrote:
Hi guys,
The compass does seem an excess item until you've left the GPS home
or the replacement batteries don't seem to be working. I've been only
30-miles out when the snow and visibility had me "temporarily"
dependent on the GPS and it quit. I knew the last GPS heading and
followed it back via that "worthless compass" until the white on
white of the airport was back in view. I'd give the Compass more
respect, as it's probably the only thing that works when all else has
dumped out on you. I'm constantly comparing my compass heading with
what's on the GPS.
Don't think anyone is 'dissing' the compass . . .
only suggesting that there are alternatives for
navigation that are equally if not more useful.
But like preventative maintenance on your
ship's battery, the batteries in your "plan-b"
back-ups are worthy of still more attention.
This was the thrust of my article some years ago
that explored the value of el-cheapo alkaline
cells.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/AA_Bat_Test.pdf
The outcome of that study suggested that
my plan-b devices could get a brand new set of
cells before leaving home base of every trip.
The cost of such cells was insignificant compared
to other costs for making the trip. But the
availability of those plan-b devices was never
in doubt. This is why to this day I prefer
the lowly alkaline to any form of rechargeable
battery whether replaceable or built in.
This goes beyond a bureaucratic/regulatory
mandate to have any particular piece of equipment
aboard. According to a particularly lucid B/R type
who attended one of my seminars a few years ago, an
electronic compass with failure resistant power paths
(like an e-bus or second battery) was an acceptable
substitute for the liquid compass. In fact
preferable if the sensor was out in the wing.
These things provided much more stable and useable data
for navigation. But HE too carried a stand-alone,
hand-held GPS in his flight bag and never
expected to be dependant upon the liquid compass
in his airplane either.
Bob . . .
Message 7
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Why Brass Bolt for ground terminal? |
Since you want ground termination on both sides of the firewall, you can do approximately
the following:
Take a 2X long copper strap, fold it in the middle and insert it through a slot
in the firewall (or around the edge). Then drill a battery ground bolt hole through
both layers and the firewall too. The bolt hole is better if it is closer
to the fold, but this is a fine detail.
Teamwork: " A lot of people doing exactly what I say."
(Marketing exec., Citrix Corp.)
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260996#260996
Message 8
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | RE: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe |
Appreciate that but the question isn't whether I should or shouldn't have
connectors. The question is only on the fate of the shielded cable at the
connector.
-----Original Message-----
From: bakerocb@cox.net [mailto:bakerocb@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 6:21 AM
Subject: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe
9/2/2009
Hello Bob, You wrote: "What should I do with the shield wire at that
location?"
Below is a copy of my 2/16/2005 posting from the archives addressing this
question.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
=============================================
2/16/2005
Hello Jay, Here is how I solved that problem.
1) I bought some additional connectors and pins of the type that plugs into
the Whelen power supply. They are available from Terminal Town and other
sources.
2) I ran a cut end of the Whelen provided cables in a continuous snake from
each wing tip light all the way to my single power supply in the fuselage
leaving a coil of excess cable in the fuselage near each wing root.
3) Then I installed the connectors on the cable cut end and plugged into the
power supply.
4) If I ever have to remove my one piece wing I will just unplug the two
cable connectors from the power supply, cut the connectors off the cable
ends, and pull the cables out of the fuselage.##
5) When I reinstall the wing I just go through the same process as when
originally installing the wing by snaking the cable ends dangling from the
wing root into the power supply, reinstalling the connectors, and plugging
back into the power supply.
Considering how seldom one pulls the wings off and how little effort and
cost is involved in cutting off and reinstalling the cable end connectors
this is the best solution for me. It also eliminates an additional cable
connection junction at the wing root.
OC
##PS: If one were a really fastidious and pecunious type one could not cut
off the connectors, but rather just extract the pins from the connectors for
wing removal, and then reinsert the pins upon wing reinstall.
End Msg: #136
============================================================
Time: 05:52:52 AM PST US
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe
Somewhat related question. I have the Whelen Comet system for my RV-7A, It
has shielded cable, of course, the power unit out to the wingtip strobe,
with the shield grounded at the power unit.
But, because there's a chance I won't be able to fly my project off the
field where it's now being built, I may hve to take the wings off and truck
it to anothre airport, so I want to use a terminal strip at the inboard wing
root, so that the wires can be disconnected. What should I do with the
shield wire at that location. Should I treat it like any other wire and
connect it at the terminal strip and continue it out to the wing tip? Or
should I just terminate it at the wing root?
Message 9
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Does anyone have the pinout/ connection diagram for a King K76 transponder?
Thanks!
Jay
Message 10
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Alternator connections |
Hi there,
I am trying to connect a Nippon Denso alternator into a Z scheme and am
confused as to the connections. There are 4 small pins in a plastic housing
and it is these whose function/ connection I cannot deduce. To me there
should be only 1 or 2 pins for positive and negative of the field, or just
positive. The photo (although blurred) shows the pin arrangement of two
pairs of pins separated by a plastic shield. Can anyone cast any light on
how to connect these?
Thanks
Jay
Message 11
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Shielded wire for wingtip strobe |
Mine is the Xenon type.. The manufacturer instructions do not address the
question.http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/columns/news_c
ut/archive/the_unemployed_series/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe
--> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 06:20 AM 9/2/2009, you wrote:
>
>9/2/2009
>
>Hello Bob, You wrote: "What should I do with the shield wire at that
>location?"
>
>Below is a copy of my 2/16/2005 posting from the archives addressing
>this question.
<snip>
I think we're talking two different systems here. The
classic strobe systems are xenon flash tubes supplied
with high voltage (300v) to light up and triggered by still
higher voltage (10Kv) to flash. These systems come with
shielded wire in the installation kit.
The strobe that is the subject of this tread is an
LED device. We're not talking about the wires
between a hv power supply and strobe heads but the
14v ship's power wire to the device.
Unless the manufacture calls out shielded wire
(and this should NEVER happen on a 14v supply
wire) then potential victim/antagonist pairs
have been identified and shielding is not useful.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 12
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Protecting the compass from interference |
Interesting comment about the compass being mandatory in the USA. In
the Great White North and according to our inspection agency MDRA it is
permissible to have an electronic compass providing it is backed up by a
battery see item 2 under Cabin/cockpit, page 4 of 11 in
http://www.md-ra.com/pdfs/what_inspectors_ck.PDF. Notice it says
battery backup. Our regulations say :Magnetic compass and page 307 of
the Aeronautical Information Manual
http://www.tc.gc.ca/publications/en/tp14371/pdf/hr/tp14371e.pdf says:
Power-driven Aircraft - day VFR
605.14
No person shall conduct a takeoff in a power-driven aircraft for the
purpose of day VFR flight unless it is equipped with
(a) where the aircraft is operated in uncontrolled
airspace, an altimeter;
(b) where the aircraft is operated in controlled
airspace, a sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure;
(c) an airspeed indicator;
(d) a magnetic compass or a magnetic direction indicator
that operates independently of the aircraft electrical generating
system;
(e) a tachometer for each engine and
..........................................................
So I guess that since I have dual AHRS and it is also backed up by a
secondary battery I don't need a whisky compass. (My friend has one in
his RV and it swings 90 degrees when the landing lights go on but it is
legal.)
It may be prudent to search the US regulations and confirm the situation
down there as most of our regulations are based on the US regulations
with a few exceptions. Maybe this is one of those exceptions.
Phillip Johnson
Message 13
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: RE: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe |
Bob...
You can cut the shielded cable and use a two pin connector of your choosing (molex
style, amp mate n loc). It should be a polarized connector to prevent connection
reversal. The short distance that is unshielded at the connector will
have no negatve impact on performance nor will it create noise problems for other
devices.
The total unshielded length created by the connector is a fraction of the total
system length.
Chris Stone
RV-8
Newberg, OR
-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob Collins <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 9:21 AM
>To: bakerocb@cox.net, aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe
>
>
>Appreciate that but the question isn't whether I should or shouldn't have
>connectors. The question is only on the fate of the shielded cable at the
>connector.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: bakerocb@cox.net [mailto:bakerocb@cox.net]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 6:21 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com; bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net
>Subject: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe
>
>9/2/2009
>
>Hello Bob, You wrote: "What should I do with the shield wire at that
>location?"
>
>Below is a copy of my 2/16/2005 posting from the archives addressing this
>question.
>
>'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
>understand knowledge."
>
>=============================================
>
>2/16/2005
>
>Hello Jay, Here is how I solved that problem.
>
>1) I bought some additional connectors and pins of the type that plugs into
>the Whelen power supply. They are available from Terminal Town and other
>sources.
>
>2) I ran a cut end of the Whelen provided cables in a continuous snake from
>each wing tip light all the way to my single power supply in the fuselage
>leaving a coil of excess cable in the fuselage near each wing root.
>
>3) Then I installed the connectors on the cable cut end and plugged into the
>power supply.
>
>4) If I ever have to remove my one piece wing I will just unplug the two
>cable connectors from the power supply, cut the connectors off the cable
>ends, and pull the cables out of the fuselage.##
>
>5) When I reinstall the wing I just go through the same process as when
>originally installing the wing by snaking the cable ends dangling from the
>wing root into the power supply, reinstalling the connectors, and plugging
>back into the power supply.
>
>Considering how seldom one pulls the wings off and how little effort and
>cost is involved in cutting off and reinstalling the cable end connectors
>this is the best solution for me. It also eliminates an additional cable
>connection junction at the wing root.
>
>OC
>
>##PS: If one were a really fastidious and pecunious type one could not cut
>off the connectors, but rather just extract the pins from the connectors for
>wing removal, and then reinsert the pins upon wing reinstall.
>
>
>End Msg: #136
>
>
>============================================================
>
>Time: 05:52:52 AM PST US
>From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe
>
>Somewhat related question. I have the Whelen Comet system for my RV-7A, It
>has shielded cable, of course, the power unit out to the wingtip strobe,
>with the shield grounded at the power unit.
>But, because there's a chance I won't be able to fly my project off the
>field where it's now being built, I may hve to take the wings off and truck
>it to anothre airport, so I want to use a terminal strip at the inboard wing
>root, so that the wires can be disconnected. What should I do with the
>shield wire at that location. Should I treat it like any other wire and
>connect it at the terminal strip and continue it out to the wing tip? Or
>should I just terminate it at the wing root?
>
>
Message 14
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: King K76 pinout |
Check the aeroelectric website.- He has several pinouts there.- Bomar.b
iz used to be GREAT but they don't have their stuff up anymore.- Heard Ce
ssna, etc said it was copyright infringement or something like that.- I h
ave access to one in a round about way and could get it for you if you can'
t find what you need.- =0A=0ABarry Chapman=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________
________________=0AFrom: Jay Hyde <jay@horriblehyde.com>=0ATo: aeroelectric
-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 8:30:51 AM=0ASubje
ct: AeroElectric-List: King K76 pinout=0A=0A=0ADoes anyone have the pinout/
connection diagram for a King K76 transponder?=0A-=0AThanks!=0AJay=0A-
=====================
Message 15
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: RE: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe |
If you choose to insert a connector at the wing joint, it's fine to route
any shielding through that connector. Dedicate one pin in the connector
for each shield that goes through the connector. If there's a 'bleeder'
wire with foil shield, just route the bleeder through the connector. If
the shield is braid, separate the braid from the center, bundle/trim the
braid as necessary to install it in the connector pin, and install the pin
in the connector body.
Unlike coax (RG-58), it's not important for the shielding to be
uninterrupted. A short length where the shield doesn't surround the
'signal' wire(s) won't have any impact on noise ingress or egress. True
coax feedline depends on maintaining controlled impedance along the
transmission line in order to avoid leakage, reflection, and detuning.
Shielded wire doesn't have the same requirements, as it isn't designed to
offer a controlled impedance environment in the first place.
Regards,
Matt-
> <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
>
> Appreciate that but the question isn't whether I should or shouldn't have
> connectors. The question is only on the fate of the shielded cable at the
> connector.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bakerocb@cox.net [mailto:bakerocb@cox.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 6:21 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com; bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net
> Subject: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe
>
> 9/2/2009
>
> Hello Bob, You wrote: "What should I do with the shield wire at that
> location?"
>
> Below is a copy of my 2/16/2005 posting from the archives addressing this
> question.
>
> 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
> understand knowledge."
>
> =============================================
>
> 2/16/2005
>
> Hello Jay, Here is how I solved that problem.
>
> 1) I bought some additional connectors and pins of the type that plugs
> into
> the Whelen power supply. They are available from Terminal Town and other
> sources.
>
> 2) I ran a cut end of the Whelen provided cables in a continuous snake
> from
> each wing tip light all the way to my single power supply in the fuselage
> leaving a coil of excess cable in the fuselage near each wing root.
>
> 3) Then I installed the connectors on the cable cut end and plugged into
> the
> power supply.
>
> 4) If I ever have to remove my one piece wing I will just unplug the two
> cable connectors from the power supply, cut the connectors off the cable
> ends, and pull the cables out of the fuselage.##
>
> 5) When I reinstall the wing I just go through the same process as when
> originally installing the wing by snaking the cable ends dangling from the
> wing root into the power supply, reinstalling the connectors, and plugging
> back into the power supply.
>
> Considering how seldom one pulls the wings off and how little effort and
> cost is involved in cutting off and reinstalling the cable end connectors
> this is the best solution for me. It also eliminates an additional cable
> connection junction at the wing root.
>
> OC
>
> ##PS: If one were a really fastidious and pecunious type one could not cut
> off the connectors, but rather just extract the pins from the connectors
> for
> wing removal, and then reinsert the pins upon wing reinstall.
>
>
> End Msg: #136
>
>
> ============================================================
>
> Time: 05:52:52 AM PST US
> From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe
>
> Somewhat related question. I have the Whelen Comet system for my RV-7A, It
> has shielded cable, of course, the power unit out to the wingtip strobe,
> with the shield grounded at the power unit.
> But, because there's a chance I won't be able to fly my project off the
> field where it's now being built, I may hve to take the wings off and
> truck
> it to anothre airport, so I want to use a terminal strip at the inboard
> wing
> root, so that the wires can be disconnected. What should I do with the
> shield wire at that location. Should I treat it like any other wire and
> connect it at the terminal strip and continue it out to the wing tip? Or
> should I just terminate it at the wing root?
>
>
Message 16
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe |
At 07:47 AM 9/1/2009, you wrote:
><bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
>
>Somewhat related question. I have the Whelen Comet system for my RV-7A, It
>has shielded cable, of course, the power unit out to the wingtip strobe,
>with the shield grounded at the power unit.
>
>But, because there's a chance I won't be able to fly my project off the
>field where it's now being built, I may hve to take the wings off and truck
>it to anothre airport, so I want to use a terminal strip at the inboard wing
>root, so that the wires can be disconnected. What should I do with the
>shield wire at that location. Should I treat it like any other wire and
>connect it at the terminal strip and continue it out to the wing tip? Or
>should I just terminate it at the wing root?
You can use the terminal strip or any of several
practical connectors. Treat the shield ground like
a 4th wire in the bundle and favor it with its
own splice at the terminal strip or in the
connector.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 17
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: King K76 pinout |
At 08:30 AM 9/2/2009, you wrote:
>Does anyone have the pinout/ connection diagram for a King K76 transponder?
>
>Thanks!
>Jay
>
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 18
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Alternator connections |
At 08:30 AM 9/2/2009, you wrote:
>Hi there,
>
>I am trying to connect a Nippon Denso alternator into a Z scheme and
>am confused as to the connections. There are 4 small pins in a
>plastic housing and it is these whose function/ connection I cannot
>deduce. To me there should be only 1 or 2 pins for positive and
>negative of the field, or just positive. The photo (although
>blurred) shows the pin arrangement of two pairs of pins separated by
>a plastic shield. Can anyone cast any light on how to connect these?
>
>Thanks
>
>Jay
What's the part number or better yet, the Lester number
of your particular alternator. You can get a pinout
at:
http://www.quality-built.com/catalog.htm
Enter make, model of car that the alternator is used
on or . . .
go to the "Cross Reference" tab of the above
link and enter the OEM or Lester number.
Step though the various photo views of the
particular alternator and I think you'll find
that one of the photos is a pinout diagram.
Having said that, you probably wont find a
connection to your alternator's field terminals.
The vast majority of alternators in the automotive
wild have built in regulators.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 19
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Protecting the compass from interference |
I see Aircraft Spruce sells a magnetic compass shield specifically for
the PAI-700 that is 80% nickel. Supposedly this is used to absorb the
offending magnetism.
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Ernest Christley
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Protecting the compass from interference
<echristley@nc.rr.com>
longg@pjm.com wrote:
>
> Thanks Bob,
>
> Based on your last comment I've thought seriously of just removing it.
I
> have 2 Dynon AHRS remotes in the wings and 2 Garmin GPS units (panel)
> and 1 handheld unit on board. If all of that goes to hell, I'll just
> land in a field and ask directions.
>
Regardless of that, you will need to please the bureaucrats. The regs
say you need a compass. Come hell or high-water, you don't have an
airplane until you have a compass.
I got a cheap, light plastic thingy from Advance Auto. A 1" hole in the
dash, and I have it front and center, but low enough that it can be
safely ignored (ie, it doesn't interfere with the all important view of
the runway 8*).
Message 20
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe |
// You can use the terminal strip or any of several
practical connectors. Treat the shield ground like
a 4th wire in the bundle and favor it with its
own splice at the terminal strip or in the
connector.
Will do. Many thanks!
Message 21
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Compass interference protection |
Is there any better (generally available) material to wrap around the
magnetic compass to shield it from interference, that's better than MuMetal?
Thanks Skip
Message 22
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Protecting the compass from interference |
But how does it let the earths magnetic field lines into the compass?
Bruce
www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
longg@pjm.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:16 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Protecting the compass from interference
I see Aircraft Spruce sells a magnetic compass shield specifically for
the PAI-700 that is 80% nickel. Supposedly this is used to absorb the
offending magnetism.
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Ernest Christley
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Protecting the compass from interference
<echristley@nc.rr.com>
longg@pjm.com wrote:
>
> Thanks Bob,
>
> Based on your last comment I've thought seriously of just removing it.
I
> have 2 Dynon AHRS remotes in the wings and 2 Garmin GPS units (panel)
> and 1 handheld unit on board. If all of that goes to hell, I'll just
> land in a field and ask directions.
>
Regardless of that, you will need to please the bureaucrats. The regs
say you need a compass. Come hell or high-water, you don't have an
airplane until you have a compass.
I got a cheap, light plastic thingy from Advance Auto. A 1" hole in the
dash, and I have it front and center, but low enough that it can be
safely ignored (ie, it doesn't interfere with the all important view of
the runway 8*).
Message 23
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe |
At 07:40 AM 9/2/2009, you wrote:
> <snip>
>
> I think we're talking two different systems here. . .
Oops . . . I see there were two threads of discussion
on similar topics. Got my mouse cord tangled around
my SEND button. The response was accurate with
respect to the simple-ideas, just not well tied
to the thread . . .
Bob . . .
Message 24
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Protecting the compass from interference |
At 10:45 AM 9/2/2009, you wrote:
>
>But how does it let the earths magnetic field lines into the compass?
EXACTLY! The preferred technique for dealing with
on-board, magnetic interference issues is to first
craft your system to minimize such risks. This
includes keeping alternator b-leads out of the cockpit
and keeping other fat-wires as low as practical and/or
forward of the firewall.
Now, go swing your compass and TEST AT ALL 4 cardinal
orientations for the effects of turning things ON and
OFF. If any combination of switch operations causes more than
a couple degrees of variation, you have some choices for
either KNOWING what those variations are and accommodating
them on your compass calibration card -OR- take steps
to reduce the effects to acceptable levels. You do this
by (1) increasing the distance between compass and the
offending field generator or as a last resort, (2)adding
some form of shielding between the compass and the
interfering field source. I mean last resort.
I'm aware of NO instance in a TC aircraft where the
problem was fixed by added shielding.
In fact, for black boxes tested to DO160 there may
have been an investigation into Magnetic Effects
of any black box upon the panel mounted liquid
compass. These effects must be very small or the
device is not qualified for installation on the
aircraft. What we cannot control by DO160 pre-tests
are the effects of wire routing and those of
devices with LARGE magnetic fields like starters,
alternators, PM motors, etc. etc.
Even in the instance where a B&C standby alternator
mounted on the engine accessory case upset a cowl
mounted compass, we MOVED the compass. Adding weight
and $cost$ of ownership by shielding is a repugnant
solution that we'll go to some effort to avoid.
Wrapping the compass itself in a shield will indeed
make it immune to the effects of on-board interference
while making it useless as an aid to navigation.
Bob . . .
Message 25
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane |
My son owns a Mooney. He can not lean it past about 50-100 degrees rich of
peak with out it starting to miss. He is burning about 12 Gal/Hr at cruise
when I think he should be able to get to about 10. He could benefit from
some type of injector balancing like from GAMI. Problem is he doesn't have
the necessary EGT probes to get the information for each cylinder and
installing a certified rig to do this would be too expensive.
My thought is that he could clamp probes to the outside of the exhaust
manifold tubes for each cylinder and run them to a reader head in the
cockpit to get "close enough" information for this application. I have
thermocouple wire and could make the probes. Where could he come upon an
inexpensive reader head for thermocouples.
What is the community take on this? Would it work? Is it legal if it is not
permanently attached to the plane?
Name withheld to protect the currently innocent! :>)
Message 26
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | New Z-figure (Corvair) |
I've just uploaded a new Z-Figure intended to address the
unique requirements of automotive conversions that use the
Kettering points/coil/distributor ignition systems.
In this case, the drawing is tailored to the design philosophy
of Wm. Wynn at Flycorvair.com with additional attention
to minimizing single points of failure for both systems
-AND- observance of contemporary philosophies for handling
always hot wires off the battery bus.
This drawing also introduces a new product from the 'Connection.
We've got about a dozen new products in the pipe but I needed
a good training program for my kids who are getting geared up
to take over the business side of the AeroElectric Connection.
The AEC9024
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 27
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | New Z-figure (Corvair) |
I've just uploaded a new Z-Figure intended to address the
unique requirements of automotive conversions that use the
Kettering points/coil/distributor ignition systems.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z09A.pdf
In this case, the drawing is tailored to the design philosophy
of Wm. Wynn at Flycorvair.com with additional attention
to minimizing single points of failure for both systems
-AND- observance of contemporary philosophies for handling
always hot wires off the battery bus.
This drawing also introduces a new product from the 'Connection.
We've got about a dozen new products in the pipe but I needed
a good training program for my kids who are getting geared up
to take over the business side of the AeroElectric Connection.
The AEC9024
. . . OOPS . . . got tangled around that SEND button again . . .
The AEC9024 series product offers 4 functions in a single device
that uses a packaging scheme much like the crowbar OV modules.
In this case, the device incorporates a microprocessor and
10 other components that can be used to effect . . .
Contactor Power Management (make el-cheeso battery contactors
operate luke-warm).
Alternator OV disconnect relay driver for PM alternators
LV Warning module for LED or Incandescant lamps.
Aux Battery Management Module.
Figure Z-9 illustrates three of the four functions for
the AEC9024
The 9024 will be shipped with instructions for wiring
to accomplish any of these functions. You program the
device to the intended task by clipping jumpers. This
critter is an attractive training product and equally
attractive merchandising opportunity. One product
of only 11 components helps keep inventory costs low.
The critter will sell for under $30.
Software is under development and the board artwork will
go to the board shop next week. My chamber is up an
running so testing won't take long.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 28
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Protecting the compass from interference |
Sort of...... It's really a 5" x 12" strip of mu metal that you'll have to
fabricate into the appropriate form to shield the PAI-700.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
longg@pjm.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:16 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Protecting the compass from interference
I see Aircraft Spruce sells a magnetic compass shield specifically for
the PAI-700 that is 80% nickel. Supposedly this is used to absorb the
offending magnetism.
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Ernest Christley
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Protecting the compass from interference
<echristley@nc.rr.com>
longg@pjm.com wrote:
>
> Thanks Bob,
>
> Based on your last comment I've thought seriously of just removing it.
I
> have 2 Dynon AHRS remotes in the wings and 2 Garmin GPS units (panel)
> and 1 handheld unit on board. If all of that goes to hell, I'll just
> land in a field and ask directions.
>
Regardless of that, you will need to please the bureaucrats. The regs
say you need a compass. Come hell or high-water, you don't have an
airplane until you have a compass.
I got a cheap, light plastic thingy from Advance Auto. A 1" hole in the
dash, and I have it front and center, but low enough that it can be
safely ignored (ie, it doesn't interfere with the all important view of
the runway 8*).
Message 29
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane |
Hi Bill,
My take would be that you're flying a Mooney - it's not an Ercoupe (meaning
it's not a super cheap airplane to begin with). It cost about $1600 to get
one of the best systems out there (Electronics International), or you can go
cheaper and get a JPI for about $1300. If you start down the GAMI path it's
not going to be cheap anyway...I'd spend the bucks and get a good EGT/CHT
monitor. If you want to keep the engine happy and fly it right, you should
have one anyway....just to see what the engine is doing. Why go through all
the work of balancing the cylinders with some cobbled together system, only
to remove it later?? Makes little sense to me, but that's just my opinion.
My 2 cents as usual.
Cheers,
Stein
_________________________________________
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill
>Bradburry
>Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:11 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane
>
>
><bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
>
> My son owns a Mooney. He can not lean it past about 50-100
>degrees rich of
>peak with out it starting to miss. He is burning about 12 Gal/Hr at cruise
>when I think he should be able to get to about 10. He could benefit from
>some type of injector balancing like from GAMI. Problem is he doesn't have
>the necessary EGT probes to get the information for each cylinder and
>installing a certified rig to do this would be too expensive.
>My thought is that he could clamp probes to the outside of the exhaust
>manifold tubes for each cylinder and run them to a reader head in the
>cockpit to get "close enough" information for this application. I have
>thermocouple wire and could make the probes. Where could he come upon an
>inexpensive reader head for thermocouples.
>What is the community take on this? Would it work? Is it legal if
>it is not
>permanently attached to the plane?
>
>Name withheld to protect the currently innocent! :>)
>
>
Message 30
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane |
Here's a dedicated K-type meter:
http://www.virtualvillage.com/digital-thermometer-for-k-type-thermocouples/sku003920-016
If the above wraps, try this:
http://tinyurl.com/kloqam
Matt-
> <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
>
> My son owns a Mooney. He can not lean it past about 50-100 degrees rich
> of
> peak with out it starting to miss. He is burning about 12 Gal/Hr at
> cruise
> when I think he should be able to get to about 10. He could benefit from
> some type of injector balancing like from GAMI. Problem is he doesn't
> have
> the necessary EGT probes to get the information for each cylinder and
> installing a certified rig to do this would be too expensive.
> My thought is that he could clamp probes to the outside of the exhaust
> manifold tubes for each cylinder and run them to a reader head in the
> cockpit to get "close enough" information for this application. I have
> thermocouple wire and could make the probes. Where could he come upon an
> inexpensive reader head for thermocouples.
> What is the community take on this? Would it work? Is it legal if it is
> not
> permanently attached to the plane?
>
> Name withheld to protect the currently innocent! :>)
>
>
Message 31
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane |
It sounds like you might have a malfunction in either the ignition or fuel
delivery systems on the engine. Maybe an air leak (around an intake tube
where it goes into the sump)? Does the fuel flow match what's published
in the operating manual for the airplane?
I can't speak to the legality of temporarily installing additional
instrumentation. My guess is that if it were battery powered or driven by
the cigar lighter there wouldn't be a problem. Likely nobody wouldn't
find out unless the airplane were involved in an accident while the system
were in the airplane.
Functionally, the temperature measured would be slightly more dependent on
the CHT than would a properly installed EGT probe, as the exhaust stacks
are cooled by their attachment to the cylinders. Regardless, I think you
might get useful data. Depending on how little wiring and soldering you
want to do, it could be fairly clunky to use, but as a diagnostic tool,
temporarily installed, it should be effective enough.
Another thought is that the probes are the 'cheap' part of the certified
system, and the display is the expensive part. Install the probes, and
then use a temporary instrument to read the data from them..
To read the data, I know it's fairly common for the cheap Harbor Freight
multimeters to include an input and display mode for a thermocouple probe.
I can't recall the wire type that mine is designed for, but I'd think it
would be perfectly adequate. Keep in mind, the absolute accuracy isn't
all that important. You need decent repeatability only. The only thing
you really need to find is the order in which each cylinder reaches peak
EGT. The first to peak is the leanest cylinder, and the last to peak is
the richest.
Here's a mutlimeter from Harbor Freight that includes input for a
temperature probe.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=37772
You could choose to install some sort of switching system (Aircraft Spruce
sells a rotary switch), or you could just route all of the probe leads
into the cockpit and plug each one into the meter in turn and record the
necessary data.
If you are really ambitious, and your time isn't worth that much, Analog
Devices makes an IC designed to read thermocouples. You could use these
IC's in a home grown meter..
BTW, how do the spark plugs look?
Matt-
> <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
>
> My son owns a Mooney. He can not lean it past about 50-100 degrees rich
> of
> peak with out it starting to miss. He is burning about 12 Gal/Hr at
> cruise
> when I think he should be able to get to about 10. He could benefit from
> some type of injector balancing like from GAMI. Problem is he doesn't
> have
> the necessary EGT probes to get the information for each cylinder and
> installing a certified rig to do this would be too expensive.
> My thought is that he could clamp probes to the outside of the exhaust
> manifold tubes for each cylinder and run them to a reader head in the
> cockpit to get "close enough" information for this application. I have
> thermocouple wire and could make the probes. Where could he come upon an
> inexpensive reader head for thermocouples.
> What is the community take on this? Would it work? Is it legal if it is
> not
> permanently attached to the plane?
>
> Name withheld to protect the currently innocent! :>)
>
>
Message 32
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane |
At 11:10 AM 9/2/2009, you wrote:
><bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
>
> My son owns a Mooney. He can not lean it past about 50-100 degrees rich of
>peak with out it starting to miss. He is burning about 12 Gal/Hr at cruise
>when I think he should be able to get to about 10. He could benefit from
>some type of injector balancing like from GAMI. Problem is he doesn't have
>the necessary EGT probes to get the information for each cylinder and
>installing a certified rig to do this would be too expensive.
>My thought is that he could clamp probes to the outside of the exhaust
>manifold tubes for each cylinder and run them to a reader head in the
>cockpit to get "close enough" information for this application. I have
>thermocouple wire and could make the probes. Where could he come upon an
>inexpensive reader head for thermocouples.
One of my favorite sources of converting various phenomena
into recorded or displayed data is Weeder Technologies.
http://www.weedtech.com/
They offer a 4-channel thermocouple signal conditioner
that you can read on the USB port of a laptop. Check out
the WTTCI thermocouple module for $109. They even offer
software at no charge that will let you display, record,
and/or graph the data.
>What is the community take on this? Would it work? Is it legal if it is not
>permanently attached to the plane?
It's not possible to achieve necessary precision
for balancing individual cylinder performance
without extending a REAL EGT probe into the
gas stream for the cylinder of interest. Now,
this only requires one small hole through which
you can install the standard type K EGT probe.
This is largely between you and your AI at the
next annual . . . how's the "approved" way to
plug 3 holes that you're not using any more.
Do you have a single probe EGT installed now?
I would think you could install 3 additional
EGT probes for the purpose of switching them
to a single instrument. The fact that you
used the extra probes for some investigative
activity in the past . . . or have even abandoned
the switch in favor of the single display
but left three probes in place to "plug the
holes" shouldn't be a hard sell either.
In any case, the probes need to get into the
approximate center of gas flow in the pipe.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 33
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: New Z-figure (Corvair) |
> I've just uploaded a new Z-Figure intended to address the
> unique requirements of automotive conversions that use the
> Kettering points/coil/distributor ignition systems.
>
> In this case, the drawing is tailored to the design philosophy
> of Wm. Wynn at Flycorvair.com with additional attention
> to minimizing single points of failure for both systems
> -AND- observance of contemporary philosophies for handling
> always hot wires off the battery bus.
>
> This drawing also introduces a new product from the 'Connection.
> We've got about a dozen new products in the pipe but I needed
> a good training program for my kids who are getting geared up
> to take over the business side of the AeroElectric Connection.
>
Bob,
Is there a reason why you are using a single ignition switch, with a single
point of failure, for the dual ignition?
Roger
Message 34
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | How to convert Z12 to Z14 |
Bob,
I have a Z12 system and want to convert to a Z14. Can I use my B&C SB-1
Alternator Controller instead of springing for a new LR-3 for my SB 20 amp
B&C? If so, what do I do with the hall effect sensor and leads 1 and 2 of
the controller? (I want the dual battery and bus isolation advantage
despite the weight increas and complexity.)
Don
Message 35
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: ELT panel remote test |
Does anyone have the pinout/ connection or circuit diagrams for the
varous 121.5 Mh ELT's, specifically dealing with the mini panel mounted
ELT test units mounted on the main panel and usually connected via
telephone extention type cable ?
You would think the various ELT manuf. would standardize on one ELT test
panel design so it is compatible with more than one manuf.
I am trying to not remove and throw away a mounted ELT function test
unit just because I am mounting another ELT brand that uses a panel
mechanically similar and using the same old telephone cable. I suspect
a simple electronics change in the test unit would make it compatible
with the new unit.......
Thanks, David
Message 36
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane |
Aircraft Spruce and Specialty. They even have the probes already made
:) and are quite reasonable in prices.
David M.
Bill Bradburry wrote:
>
> My son owns a Mooney. He can not lean it past about 50-100 degrees rich of
> peak with out it starting to miss. He is burning about 12 Gal/Hr at cruise
> when I think he should be able to get to about 10. He could benefit from
> some type of injector balancing like from GAMI. Problem is he doesn't have
> the necessary EGT probes to get the information for each cylinder and
> installing a certified rig to do this would be too expensive.
> My thought is that he could clamp probes to the outside of the exhaust
> manifold tubes for each cylinder and run them to a reader head in the
> cockpit to get "close enough" information for this application. I have
> thermocouple wire and could make the probes. Where could he come upon an
> inexpensive reader head for thermocouples.
> What is the community take on this? Would it work? Is it legal if it is not
> permanently attached to the plane?
>
> Name withheld to protect the currently innocent! :>)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
Message 37
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane |
We're using the Analog Devices thermocouple IC's and it's not really all
that hard if you use their engineering advice. Very inexpensive, too.
You can bring the outputs of their IC's (AD 494 and AD 495) to feed many
types of readers. We bring the 0-5v into a Labjack USB input into a
laptop for logging and trending. The Labjack U12 is the older model but
that's what we use. It's around $100. There are even cheapers ways to
do the A/D but they take a *lot* more time and engineering.
David M.
Matt Prather wrote:
>
> It sounds like you might have a malfunction in either the ignition or fuel
> delivery systems on the engine. Maybe an air leak (around an intake tube
> where it goes into the sump)? Does the fuel flow match what's published
> in the operating manual for the airplane?
>
> I can't speak to the legality of temporarily installing additional
> instrumentation. My guess is that if it were battery powered or driven by
> the cigar lighter there wouldn't be a problem. Likely nobody wouldn't
> find out unless the airplane were involved in an accident while the system
> were in the airplane.
>
> Functionally, the temperature measured would be slightly more dependent on
> the CHT than would a properly installed EGT probe, as the exhaust stacks
> are cooled by their attachment to the cylinders. Regardless, I think you
> might get useful data. Depending on how little wiring and soldering you
> want to do, it could be fairly clunky to use, but as a diagnostic tool,
> temporarily installed, it should be effective enough.
>
> Another thought is that the probes are the 'cheap' part of the certified
> system, and the display is the expensive part. Install the probes, and
> then use a temporary instrument to read the data from them..
>
> To read the data, I know it's fairly common for the cheap Harbor Freight
> multimeters to include an input and display mode for a thermocouple probe.
> I can't recall the wire type that mine is designed for, but I'd think it
> would be perfectly adequate. Keep in mind, the absolute accuracy isn't
> all that important. You need decent repeatability only. The only thing
> you really need to find is the order in which each cylinder reaches peak
> EGT. The first to peak is the leanest cylinder, and the last to peak is
> the richest.
>
> Here's a mutlimeter from Harbor Freight that includes input for a
> temperature probe.
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=37772
>
> You could choose to install some sort of switching system (Aircraft Spruce
> sells a rotary switch), or you could just route all of the probe leads
> into the cockpit and plug each one into the meter in turn and record the
> necessary data.
>
> If you are really ambitious, and your time isn't worth that much, Analog
> Devices makes an IC designed to read thermocouples. You could use these
> IC's in a home grown meter..
>
> BTW, how do the spark plugs look?
>
>
> Matt-
>
>> <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> My son owns a Mooney. He can not lean it past about 50-100 degrees rich
>> of
>> peak with out it starting to miss. He is burning about 12 Gal/Hr at
>> cruise
>> when I think he should be able to get to about 10. He could benefit from
>> some type of injector balancing like from GAMI. Problem is he doesn't
>> have
>> the necessary EGT probes to get the information for each cylinder and
>> installing a certified rig to do this would be too expensive.
>> My thought is that he could clamp probes to the outside of the exhaust
>> manifold tubes for each cylinder and run them to a reader head in the
>> cockpit to get "close enough" information for this application. I have
>> thermocouple wire and could make the probes. Where could he come upon an
>> inexpensive reader head for thermocouples.
>> What is the community take on this? Would it work? Is it legal if it is
>> not
>> permanently attached to the plane?
>>
>> Name withheld to protect the currently innocent! :>)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
Message 38
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane |
At 12:07 PM 9/2/2009, you wrote:
>
>Here's a dedicated K-type meter:
>
>http://www.virtualvillage.com/digital-thermometer-for-k-type-thermocouples/sku003920-016
>
>If the above wraps, try this:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/kloqam
Yeah, that works too. You can rig a 2-pole, 4-position
rotary switch to "scan" the 4 probes for comparison.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/excerpt.pdf
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 39
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: How to convert Z12 to Z14 |
At 02:07 PM 9/2/2009, you wrote:
>Bob,
>I have a Z12 system and want to convert to a Z14. Can I use my B&C
>SB-1 Alternator Controller instead of springing for a new LR-3 for
>my SB 20 amp B&C?
Yes, just re-adjust it for 14.4 instead of 13.5
>If so, what do I do with the hall effect sensor and leads 1 and 2 of
>the controller?
If they're installed and hooked up, leave them as
is. The SB-1 doesn't have LV warning so you'll want
to add that to the aux system as a separate accessory.
> (I want the dual battery and bus isolation advantage despite the
> weight increas and complexity.)
Have you had an experience that prompts you to make
this change? Recall that hundreds and perhaps thousands
of expensive GA aircraft are boring holes in lots of
clouds with Z12 installed . . . and even if Z12 were
NOT installed, they'd still be poking holes.
Are you planning on having independent, IFR capable
instrumentation installed on both pilot locations? That
was the original idea behind Z-14.
If not, what single failure of installed equipment
prompts you to believe that Z14 is more likely to
get you on the ground than Z12?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 40
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: New Z-figure (Corvair) |
>
>Bob,
>
>Is there a reason why you are using a single ignition switch, with a
>single point of failure, for the dual ignition?
>
>Roger
Yup, that's a William Wynn design philosophy described
in Chapter 5 of his installation documentation:
http://tinyurl.com/nd42op
I would have opted for a pair of independent switches
but his rationale for the single switch is well
articulated. I did expand to 4-poles so that I could
protect each power lead on it's own fuse. Getting into
a one versus two switch argument wasn't going to be
very productive.
Of course, any builder could split to a pair of
switches at their own choosing. This Z-figure offers
an "AeroElectric Connection" style power distribution
diagram that assists his builders in crafting an installation
consistent with his well thought out design goals.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 41
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: New Z-figure (Corvair) |
Given that both sides of the discussion have merit, does any know if
they still make the blocks that clamp over a pair of toggle switches.
Much of the stock video footage of missile launches and control rooms
show someone flipping one. They usually had yellow and black diagonal
stripes.
Is there a modern equivalent To that type of setup.
Thanks,
Raymond Julian
do not archive
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> Is there a reason why you are using a single ignition switch, with a
>> single point of failure, for the dual ignition?
>>
>> Roger
>
> Yup, that's a William Wynn design philosophy described
> in Chapter 5 of his installation documentation:
>
> * http://tinyurl.com/nd42op*
>
> I would have opted for a pair of independent switches
> but his rationale for the single switch is well
> articulated. I did expand to 4-poles so that I could
> protect each power lead on it's own fuse. Getting into
> a one versus two switch argument wasn't going to be
> very productive.
>
> Of course, any builder could split to a pair of
> switches at their own choosing. This Z-figure offers
> an "AeroElectric Connection" style power distribution
> diagram that assists his builders in crafting an installation
> consistent with his well thought out design goals.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ---------------------------------------
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ---------------------------------------
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 42
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: New Z-figure (Corvair) |
I have seen them at Stein Air
Franz
On 02/09/09 2:47 PM, "ray" <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
> Given that both sides of the discussion have merit, does any know if
> they still make the blocks that clamp over a pair of toggle switches.
> Much of the stock video footage of missile launches and control rooms
> show someone flipping one. They usually had yellow and black diagonal
> stripes.
>
> Is there a modern equivalent To that type of setup.
>
> Thanks,
> Raymond Julian
>
> do not archive
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>>
>>> Bob,
>>>
>>> Is there a reason why you are using a single ignition switch, with a
>>> single point of failure, for the dual ignition?
>>>
>>> Roger
>>
>> Yup, that's a William Wynn design philosophy described
>> in Chapter 5 of his installation documentation:
>>
>> * http://tinyurl.com/nd42op*
>>
>> I would have opted for a pair of independent switches
>> but his rationale for the single switch is well
>> articulated. I did expand to 4-poles so that I could
>> protect each power lead on it's own fuse. Getting into
>> a one versus two switch argument wasn't going to be
>> very productive.
>>
>> Of course, any builder could split to a pair of
>> switches at their own choosing. This Z-figure offers
>> an "AeroElectric Connection" style power distribution
>> diagram that assists his builders in crafting an installation
>> consistent with his well thought out design goals.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>> ---------------------------------------
>> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
>> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
>> ( appearance of being right . . . )
>> ( )
>> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
>> ---------------------------------------
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
>
>
Franz Fux
Director of Operations
Last Frontier Heliskiing Ltd.
Bell 2 Lodge
P.O. Box 1237
Vernon, BC, V1T 6N6
CANADA
Office Contact
T: (250) 558-7980
F: (250) 558-7981
http://www.lastfrontierheli.com
Lodge Contact
T: (250) 275-4770
F: (250) 275-4912
http://www.bell2lodge.com
Message 43
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane |
On 2 Sep 2009, at 12:10, Bill Bradburry wrote:
> >
>
> My son owns a Mooney. He can not lean it past about 50-100 degrees
> rich of
> peak with out it starting to miss. He is burning about 12 Gal/Hr at
> cruise
> when I think he should be able to get to about 10. He could benefit
> from
> some type of injector balancing like from GAMI. Problem is he
> doesn't have
> the necessary EGT probes to get the information for each cylinder and
> installing a certified rig to do this would be too expensive.
> My thought is that he could clamp probes to the outside of the exhaust
> manifold tubes for each cylinder and run them to a reader head in the
> cockpit to get "close enough" information for this application. I
> have
> thermocouple wire and could make the probes. Where could he come
> upon an
> inexpensive reader head for thermocouples.
> What is the community take on this? Would it work? Is it legal if
> it is not
> permanently attached to the plane?
I predict that the response time of thermocouples clamped to the
outside of the exhaust pipes would be so slow as to make them
essentially useless. I won't comment on legality.
It sounds like you are spending a lot more on fuel than would be
needed if the aircraft was running correctly. Given the cost of this
extra fuel, and the cost of top overhauls if you cook a cylinder(s)
due to poor EGT data, I recommend you spend the bucks to install an
approved, reasonable quality four cylinder EGT and CHT system. It
would likely prove to be a false economy to go too cheap here.
Good luck.
--
Kevin Horton
RV-8 (Flight Test Phase)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 44
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane |
There is something definitely wrong with the engine, assuming it is
Lycoming 200hp fuel injected. Many 200hp Mooneys will run fine LOP with
stock injectors. I'd be looking at plugs, mags and injectors for
starters. Also, a wobble check on the exhaust valves, and a leak check
on the intake tubes.
If it is the 180hp carbureted engine, check for intake leaks, and try
some carb heat to help.
SteinAir, Inc. wrote:
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> My take would be that you're flying a Mooney - it's not an Ercoupe (meaning
> it's not a super cheap airplane to begin with). It cost about $1600 to get
> one of the best systems out there (Electronics International), or you can go
> cheaper and get a JPI for about $1300. If you start down the GAMI path it's
> not going to be cheap anyway...I'd spend the bucks and get a good EGT/CHT
> monitor. If you want to keep the engine happy and fly it right, you should
> have one anyway....just to see what the engine is doing. Why go through all
> the work of balancing the cylinders with some cobbled together system, only
> to remove it later?? Makes little sense to me, but that's just my opinion.
>
> My 2 cents as usual.
>
> Cheers,
> Stein
>
> _________________________________________
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
> entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive
> this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
> computer.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill
>> Bradburry
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:11 AM
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane
>>
>>
>> <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> My son owns a Mooney. He can not lean it past about 50-100
>> degrees rich of
>> peak with out it starting to miss. He is burning about 12 Gal/Hr at cruise
>> when I think he should be able to get to about 10. He could benefit from
>> some type of injector balancing like from GAMI. Problem is he doesn't have
>> the necessary EGT probes to get the information for each cylinder and
>> installing a certified rig to do this would be too expensive.
>> My thought is that he could clamp probes to the outside of the exhaust
>> manifold tubes for each cylinder and run them to a reader head in the
>> cockpit to get "close enough" information for this application. I have
>> thermocouple wire and could make the probes. Where could he come upon an
>> inexpensive reader head for thermocouples.
>> What is the community take on this? Would it work? Is it legal if
>> it is not
>> permanently attached to the plane?
>>
>> Name withheld to protect the currently innocent! :>)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 45
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane |
Kevin,
I agree that compared to buying engine parts, instrumentation is a fair
deal. However, certainly people were able to diagnose engine malfunction
before multipoint CHT/EGT existed. If the POH says the engine should be
able to do something that this engine isn't doing, a good mechanic should
be able to track it down.
Regards,
Matt-
> <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
> On 2 Sep 2009, at 12:10, Bill Bradburry wrote:
>
>> <bbradburry@bellsouth.net
>> >
>>
>> My son owns a Mooney. He can not lean it past about 50-100 degrees
>> rich of
>> peak with out it starting to miss. He is burning about 12 Gal/Hr at
>> cruise
>> when I think he should be able to get to about 10. He could benefit
>> from
>> some type of injector balancing like from GAMI. Problem is he
>> doesn't have
>> the necessary EGT probes to get the information for each cylinder and
>> installing a certified rig to do this would be too expensive.
>> My thought is that he could clamp probes to the outside of the exhaust
>> manifold tubes for each cylinder and run them to a reader head in the
>> cockpit to get "close enough" information for this application. I
>> have
>> thermocouple wire and could make the probes. Where could he come
>> upon an
>> inexpensive reader head for thermocouples.
>> What is the community take on this? Would it work? Is it legal if
>> it is not
>> permanently attached to the plane?
>
> I predict that the response time of thermocouples clamped to the
> outside of the exhaust pipes would be so slow as to make them
> essentially useless. I won't comment on legality.
>
> It sounds like you are spending a lot more on fuel than would be
> needed if the aircraft was running correctly. Given the cost of this
> extra fuel, and the cost of top overhauls if you cook a cylinder(s)
> due to poor EGT data, I recommend you spend the bucks to install an
> approved, reasonable quality four cylinder EGT and CHT system. It
> would likely prove to be a false economy to go too cheap here.
>
> Good luck.
>
> --
> Kevin Horton
> RV-8 (Flight Test Phase)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
>
Message 46
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Alternator choices |
Is it straightforward / recommended to modify an internally regulated
alternator to be externally regulated or should I opt to buy an
externally regulated model and not attempt to modify ? What kind of
pitfalls should I expect or have been experienced IRL (In Real Life) ?
I ask this because almost all of the alternators I have seen for sale
are internally regulated, even from aircraft / aero engine shops.
Thanks in advance,
Colm O'Reilly
Message 47
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: New Z-figure (Corvair) |
At 04:47 PM 9/2/2009, you wrote:
>
>Given that both sides of the discussion have merit, does any know if
>they still make the blocks that clamp over a pair of toggle
>switches. Much of the stock video footage of missile launches and
>control rooms show someone flipping one. They usually had yellow and
>black diagonal stripes.
>
>Is there a modern equivalent To that type of setup.
There's a variety of hinged covers that can be
used over the bat-handled toggle switches.
http://tinyurl.com/mnoc55
These are readily available from a lot of sources.
Know that they come in a lot of dash numbers for
spring loaded closed, stable in open position,
and cams on the inside of the cover to force the
handle into a certian position when the cover is
closed.
OH . . . a PAIR of toggle switches? Inadvertent
operation fences? I think Eric Jones offers some
off of his website.
Are you talking about those honk'en big covers
with a hinged lid? Why would you want such a thing
on your panel?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 48
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Changing Z12 to the Z14 electrical system |
Bob and group,
I have a Z12 system in my RV-8 and want to change to Z14 because of my
comfort zone with two batteries and two separate busses. I've researched Z14
in the archives and can't find anything about my questions below:
1.Do I have to buy a second LR-3 alternator controller for my 20 amp aux
alternator or can I use my old SB-1 alternator controller, doing whatever is
necessary and prudent with the Hall effect current sensor and leads 1 and 2
that connect to the Hall sensor from the SB-1 controller?
2. Since I finished my RV-8 in 1994, are there any new suggestions for the
main or aux warning lights on Z14?
3. I didn't include the battery temp sensor in 1994 in the Z12. Should I
include them in my Z14?
Don RV-8 N417DS
Message 49
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: rigging a thermocouple on a certified plane |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 12:07 PM 9/2/2009, you wrote:
>> <mprather@spro.net>
>>
>> Here's a dedicated K-type meter:
>>
>> http://www.virtualvillage.com/digital-thermometer-for-k-type-thermocouples/sku003920-016
>>
>>
>> If the above wraps, try this:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/kloqam
>
> Yeah, that works too. You can rig a 2-pole, 4-position
> rotary switch to "scan" the 4 probes for comparison.
> See:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/excerpt.pdf
>
>
> Bob . . .
What I found even more interesting is the list of available probes,
including
http://www.virtualvillage.com/k-type-thermocouple-temperature-sensor-probe-10ft-3m/sku003820-032
good to 800 degrees C.
Any thoughts on adapting this as an EGT probe? I like $5.99 a lot better
than $30-$40 for a purpose-built aviation probe. Also, I wonder if it
would be suitable for CHT in the 250-450 F range (120-260C) with a meter
that's compatible with a K series probe.
Charlie
Message 50
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: New Z-figure (Corvair) |
I think we've had a little data dropout. What I'm asking about is a way
to physically tie the 2 handles together so that the 2 switches must be
operated together. The idea being to eliminate a single point of
failure while still implementing the 1 switch philosophy from WW.
Raymond Julian
do not archive
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 04:47 PM 9/2/2009, you wrote:
>>
>> Given that both sides of the discussion have merit, does any know if
>> they still make the blocks that clamp over a pair of toggle switches.
>> Much of the stock video footage of missile launches and control rooms
>> show someone flipping one. They usually had yellow and black diagonal
>> stripes.
>>
>> Is there a modern equivalent To that type of setup.
>
> There's a variety of hinged covers that can be
> used over the bat-handled toggle switches.
>
> * http://tinyurl.com/mnoc55*
>
> These are readily available from a lot of sources.
> Know that they come in a lot of dash numbers for
> spring loaded closed, stable in open position,
> and cams on the inside of the cover to force the
> handle into a certian position when the cover is
> closed.
>
> OH . . . a PAIR of toggle switches? Inadvertent
> operation fences? I think Eric Jones offers some
> off of his website.
>
> Are you talking about those honk'en big covers
> with a hinged lid? Why would you want such a thing
> on your panel?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ---------------------------------------
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ---------------------------------------
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 51
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe |
9/2/2009
Hello Bob, Yes I understand that. But why not finesse the problem regarding
the fate of the cable shield at the connectors and also the requirement for
any connectors at all when they are not necessary with the technique that I
described?
In this case simpler is both better and cheaper.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
PS: Recall one of the axioms of building: "That which you leave out cannot
cause you problems later on."
=====================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 9:21 AM
Subject: RE: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe
> Appreciate that but the question isn't whether I should or shouldn't have
> connectors. The question is only on the fate of the shielded cable at the
> connector.
=================================================
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bakerocb@cox.net [mailto:bakerocb@cox.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 6:21 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com; bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net
> Subject: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe
>
> 9/2/2009
>
> Hello Bob, You wrote: "What should I do with the shield wire at that
> location?"
>
> Below is a copy of my 2/16/2005 posting from the archives addressing this
> question.
>
> 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
> understand knowledge."
>
> =============================================
>
> 2/16/2005
>
> Hello Jay, Here is how I solved that problem.
>
> 1) I bought some additional connectors and pins of the type that plugs
> into
> the Whelen power supply. They are available from Terminal Town and other
> sources.
>
> 2) I ran a cut end of the Whelen provided cables in a continuous snake
> from
> each wing tip light all the way to my single power supply in the fuselage
> leaving a coil of excess cable in the fuselage near each wing root.
>
> 3) Then I installed the connectors on the cable cut end and plugged into
> the
> power supply.
>
> 4) If I ever have to remove my one piece wing I will just unplug the two
> cable connectors from the power supply, cut the connectors off the cable
> ends, and pull the cables out of the fuselage.##
>
> 5) When I reinstall the wing I just go through the same process as when
> originally installing the wing by snaking the cable ends dangling from the
> wing root into the power supply, reinstalling the connectors, and plugging
> back into the power supply.
>
> Considering how seldom one pulls the wings off and how little effort and
> cost is involved in cutting off and reinstalling the cable end connectors
> this is the best solution for me. It also eliminates an additional cable
> connection junction at the wing root.
>
> OC
>
> ##PS: If one were a really fastidious and pecunious type one could not cut
> off the connectors, but rather just extract the pins from the connectors
> for
> wing removal, and then reinsert the pins upon wing reinstall.
>
>
> End Msg: #136
>
>
> ============================================================
>
> Time: 05:52:52 AM PST US
> From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Shielded wire for wingtip strobe
>
> Somewhat related question. I have the Whelen Comet system for my RV-7A, It
> has shielded cable, of course, the power unit out to the wingtip strobe,
> with the shield grounded at the power unit.
> But, because there's a chance I won't be able to fly my project off the
> field where it's now being built, I may hve to take the wings off and
> truck
> it to anothre airport, so I want to use a terminal strip at the inboard
> wing
> root, so that the wires can be disconnected. What should I do with the
> shield wire at that location. Should I treat it like any other wire and
> connect it at the terminal strip and continue it out to the wing tip? Or
> should I just terminate it at the wing root?
>
>
Message 52
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | New Z-figure (Corvair) |
Raymond -
The switch-tie device you describe would be easy to fabricate.
A chunk of 0.250 or 0.3125 aluminum, a drill press and a little time with a
file...
neal
=======
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: New Z-figure (Corvair)
I think we've had a little data dropout. What I'm asking about is a way
to physically tie the 2 handles together so that the 2 switches must be
operated together. The idea being to eliminate a single point of
failure while still implementing the 1 switch philosophy from WW.
Raymond Julian
do not archive
Message 53
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Another power distribution scheme |
I'm building a VFR Murphy Rebel with an electronic ignition Subaru
engine and dual rear mounted batteries. I've been working on a power
distribution plan for a couple weeks and I think I got it where I'm
happy with it but wanted to maybe get some input from you folks. You
know - get a few knowledgeable eyes on it and make sure I'm not doing
something really stupid.
Couple notable items,
I am using an internally regulated alternator - I chose not to have an
alternator disconnect. I figure the risk of damaging the alternator or
avionics through load dump was just too great. The B lead goes straight
to battery A. I did however provide a solution for the remote chance of
an OV fault by isolating battery A and running off battery B. Battery A
is sacrificed in this case.
The essential bus can be fed from either or both batteries. The
non-essential bus drops out during battery only operation - this can be
overridden for preflights etc.
I know I could just copy one of the Z drawings and they were a huge
knowledge boost to study but none seemed to fit exactly what I had in
mind and I get a lot of satisfaction going through the noodling process.
Thanks for looking,
Joel
Message 54
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: New Z-figure (Corvair) |
ray wrote:
>
> Given that both sides of the discussion have merit, does any know if
> they still make the blocks that clamp over a pair of toggle switches.
> Much of the stock video footage of missile launches and control rooms
> show someone flipping one. They usually had yellow and black diagonal
> stripes.
>
> Is there a modern equivalent To that type of setup.
mpja.com has been giving them away for the almost the cost of shipping
for a while now.
--
Ernest Christley, President
Ernest@TechnicalTakedown.com
TechnicalTakedown, LLC
www.TechnicalTakedown.com
101 Steep Bank Dr.
Cary, NC 27518
(919) 741-9397
Message 55
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | New Z-figure (Corvair) |
At 09:43 PM 9/2/2009, you wrote:
>
>Raymond -
>The switch-tie device you describe would be easy to fabricate.
>A chunk of 0.250 or 0.3125 aluminum, a drill press and a little time with a
>file...
>
>neal
>
>=======
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: New Z-figure (Corvair)
>
>
>I think we've had a little data dropout. What I'm asking about is a way
>to physically tie the 2 handles together so that the 2 switches must be
>operated together. The idea being to eliminate a single point of
>failure while still implementing the 1 switch philosophy from WW.
Aha! But of course. Neal's suggestion works. I've not
seen those as a catalog item but they're not hard to
make. Some aluminum bar stock, drills, taps, set screws,
and some sculpting on the sander would work good. I think
I would sand some flats on the switch handles for the set
screws to grip and run screws in from both sides . . . not
unlike
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Tech_Tips/FlapSwitch/FlapSw2.jpg
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 56
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | What single failure of installed equipment prompts |
me to change to Z14...
Bob,
Sorry I sent two nearly identical posts earlier--I thought the first
didn't go through.
You had asked:
"Have you had an experience that prompts you to make
this change? Recall that hundreds and perhaps thousands
of expensive GA aircraft are boring holes in lots of
clouds with Z12 installed . . . and even if Z12 were
NOT installed, they'd still be poking holes.
Are you planning on having independent, IFR capable
instrumentation installed on both pilot locations? That
was the original idea behind Z-14.
If not, what single failure of installed equipment
prompts you to believe that Z14 is more likely to
get you on the ground than Z12?"
1. I fly out of Seattle, and we have a lot of IFR days (some when the ice
is just too daunting to leave the ground!). In August, on the way out of
Puget Sound in IFR soup to VFR conditions east of the Cascades, I had no
problems with my dual Cheltons. On the way back a week later in VFR
conditions, I had a brownout of the Cheltons (first and only time in 235 hours).
They began to reset in seconds, but took the usual two minutes to boot-up. I
don't have a clue as to why the brownout. Prior to this flight I had
sitting on my workbench a GRT Sport EFIS as a backup to the Cheltons and a
Garmin GNS430W (both to be installed this Fall). I already have SL30,
electric T&B and electric AH. I'm totally electric with the current Z12 (34 Ah
Concorde AX35 battery). With the new gear and Z14 , I thought I'd put the
Cheltons on one bus and the 430W and GRT Sport EFIS on the other bus using
two Odyssey PC 680's--same weight as the one Concorde, and together same
34Ah, plus easier to replace in the boondocks.
2. A plus for the Z14 is the extra battery for starting (with the
crossover) in my IO-540 RV-8), but again similar Ah (one Concorde to two PC680's).
3. Just add a brownout battery to the Z12? Point me to your brownout
battery diagram--I couldn't find it on your site. I've ordered your loadmeter
to indicate loads on my Z12 alternators (or future Z14).
Any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated--I'm here to learn!
Many thanks,
Don
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|