---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/09/09: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:21 AM - RG58 vs. RG59 (Lincoln Keill) 2. 09:46 AM - Re: RG58 vs. RG59 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 3. 11:08 AM - Re: RG58 vs. RG59 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 12:45 PM - ANL current limiters in Z13-8 (Lincoln Keill) 5. 01:22 PM - Re: ANL current limiters in Z13-8 () 6. 01:22 PM - Re: ANL current limiters in Z13-8 () 7. 02:08 PM - Re: ANL current limiters in Z13-8 (Matt Prather) 8. 06:56 PM - Re: ANL current limiters in Z13-8 (Bob McCallum) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:36 AM PST US From: Lincoln Keill Subject: AeroElectric-List: RG58 vs. RG59 I am assembling an APRS system. -I have created an J-pole antenna out of 300 ohm twin-lead cable (designed to send out short 144.39 MHz data transmi ssions) and have soldered onto that a short (18 inch) length of RG-58 coax. .I note that AEC recommends RG-58 over RG-59 due to the latter's higher imp edance. -To connect the coax to the APRS module requires a female SMA con nector -- I found one at Radio Shack that says it is designed for crimping onto RG-58 cable...so far so good. -I've been to three local stores and c an only find strippers/crimpers for RG-59 cable. -However, the ones I fin d online make it sound like tools for RG-58 and RG-59 cable are interchange able. -I also note from Wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_c able] that RG-58 and RG-59 cable have slight differences in their inner, ou ter and dielectric diameters.- Question #1: -Can I successfully use an RG-59 stripper/crimper to attach an SMA connector to RG-58 cable or do I need to find a tool specifically de signed for RG-58 cable? Question #2: -Will a crimping tool work equally well with BNC and SMA con nectors or do I need separate tools for each? Bonus question: -Would my J-pole antenna perform better laying flat (hori zontal) in my fiberglass wingtip or looped around the leading edge so it ha s some "vertical polarization"? Thanks to whoever can provide guidance. Lincoln KeillRV-7A Fuselage Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:26 AM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RG58 vs. RG59 I bought my RG 58 BNC crimper from Radio Shack for about 11 bucks I think.. Just in case that will work. Frank ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr ic-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lincoln Keill Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 9:17 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: RG58 vs. RG59 I am assembling an APRS system. I have created an J-pole antenna out of 30 0 ohm twin-lead cable (designed to send out short 144.39 MHz data transmiss ions) and have soldered onto that a short (18 inch) length of RG-58 coax..I note that AEC recommends RG-58 over RG-59 due to the latter's higher imped ance. To connect the coax to the APRS module requires a female SMA connect or -- I found one at Radio Shack that says it is designed for crimping onto RG-58 cable...so far so good. I've been to three local stores and can onl y find strippers/crimpers for RG-59 cable. However, the ones I find online make it sound like tools for RG-58 and RG-59 cable are interchangeable. I also note from Wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_cable] that RG-58 and RG-59 cable have slight differences in their inner, outer and di electric diameters. Question #1: Can I successfully use an RG-59 stripper/crimper to attach an SMA connector to RG-58 cable or do I need to find a tool specifically desi gned for RG-58 cable? Question #2: Will a crimping tool work equally well with BNC and SMA conne ctors or do I need separate tools for each? Bonus question: Would my J-pole antenna perform better laying flat (horizo ntal) in my fiberglass wingtip or looped around the leading edge so it has some "vertical polarization"? Thanks to whoever can provide guidance. Lincoln Keill RV-7A Fuselage Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:08:20 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RG58 vs. RG59 At 11:17 AM 9/9/2009, you wrote: >I am assembling an APRS system. I have created an J-pole antenna >out of 300 ohm twin-lead cable (designed to send out short 144.39 >MHz data transmissions) Why so mechanically complex an antenna in an airplane? We're talking VHF which is line of sight. What leads you to believe that this device will perform any better than a simple 1/4-wave vertical used in VHF communications applications? >and have soldered onto that a short (18 inch) length of RG-58 >coax..I note that AEC recommends RG-58 over RG-59 due to the >latter's higher impedance. RG58's 50 ohm characteristic impedance has been generally adopted by the electronics industry as the design of choice for power handling capability while the RG58's 75 ohm impedance is favored for lower loss. The later is used in television and low level signal situations. > To connect the coax to the APRS module requires a female SMA > connector -- I found one at Radio Shack that says it is designed > for crimping onto RG-58 cable...so far so good. I've been to three > local stores and can only find strippers/crimpers for RG-59 > cable. However, the ones I find online make it sound like tools > for RG-58 and RG-59 cable are interchangeable. I also note from > Wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_cable] that RG-58 > and RG-59 cable have slight differences in their inner, outer and > dielectric diameters. Yes, connectors, strippers and application tools are specific to the dimensions of the coax . . . >Question #1: Can I successfully use an RG-59 stripper/crimper to >attach an SMA connector to RG-58 cable or do I need to find a tool >specifically designed for RG-58 cable? You need the right tool . . . >Question #2: Will a crimping tool work equally well with BNC and >SMA connectors or do I need separate tools for each? It's brand and part number specific. While MOST manufacturer's of RG58 compatible connectors will crimp the shield/pin grips with a .068"/.113" hexes, it's not automatic. You need to match the tool with the connector. >Bonus question: Would my J-pole antenna perform better laying flat >(horizontal) in my fiberglass wingtip or looped around the leading >edge so it has some "vertical polarization"? > >Thanks to whoever can provide guidance. Please consider a single run of RG400 from the accessory to a simple 1/4-wave antenna on a ground plane fabricated as described in many resources including the chapter on antennas in the AeroElectric Connection. You can get a compatible SMA male here: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=ACX1192-ND You can get a BNC male and the tool to install both connectors at: http://bandc.biz Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:45:31 PM PST US From: Lincoln Keill Subject: AeroElectric-List: ANL current limiters in Z13-8 Spent an hour or so trying to visualize where everything is going to mount on the firewall while studying Z-13/8 and came upon Note 10 regarding curre nt limiters. -I understand that these are replacing the In-Line Fuses ref erred to in Chapter 10 of AEC but had these questions: 1. -With a 40A alternator, do I use a 40A ANL current limiter? 2. -Any reason the 4 AWG wire (and ANL current limiter) from the alternat or B lead can't go to the "downstream" side of the battery contactor instea d of the "upstream" side of the starter contactor? -They both seem to be electrically equivalent particularly since the wire between them is so shor t. 3. -The following is found under Note 10. in AEC: -"Alternator noises i n the system are reduced by not mounting the alternator breaker on the pane l in the traditional fashion...consider installing the breaker as close as possible to the starter contactor" --- Is this referring to the ANL curre nt limiter described above or the circuit breaker for the alternator field? -If the latter, I'm confused and hope someone can provide some more expl anation. Thanks. Lincoln KeillRV-7A fuselage Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:22:11 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ANL current limiters in Z13-8 From: Lincoln, You may have read Bob's dribs and drabs on how ANL's (search list for lots on this item) are of the slow-blow variety and will accommodate n percentage of higher current just prior to blasting off the firewall. You should need no more than 80% of your total draw. E.G. - a 40A ANL may not blow until it loads up 50+ amps Cost is not the issue, they are mostly the same. If you can get one with a slightly lower rating (35) and your total draw is 40, you'd be good to fly and have a margin of safety. I think most rigs today with modern equipment have far less draw than most believe. Putting a meter on is the only sure fire way to tell what your day to day requirements are. I've got all kinds of EFIS IFR junk, but none of them draw much more than 3 amps when they are really sweating. I've also got a 80 amp (bargain basement item) alternator that helps keep the nose down, but unless I install central air-conditioning, I'll never use the capacity. I've got a 30 A ANL in front of the load. Glenn From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lincoln Keill Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 3:44 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: ANL current limiters in Z13-8 Spent an hour or so trying to visualize where everything is going to mount on the firewall while studying Z-13/8 and came upon Note 10 regarding current limiters. I understand that these are replacing the In-Line Fuses referred to in Chapter 10 of AEC but had these questions: 1. With a 40A alternator, do I use a 40A ANL current limiter? 2. Any reason the 4 AWG wire (and ANL current limiter) from the alternator B lead can't go to the "downstream" side of the battery contactor instead of the "upstream" side of the starter contactor? They both seem to be electrically equivalent particularly since the wire between them is so short. 3. The following is found under Note 10. in AEC: "Alternator noises in the system are reduced by not mounting the alternator breaker on the panel in the traditional fashion...consider installing the breaker as close as possible to the starter contactor" -- Is this referring to the ANL current limiter described above or the circuit breaker for the alternator field? If the latter, I'm confused and hope someone can provide some more explanation. Thanks. Lincoln Keill RV-7A fuselage Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:22:43 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ANL current limiters in Z13-8 From: Lincoln, Sorry, yes #3 applies to the ANL. Having that big circuit breaker on the panel is great if you need an alternate heat source in the cab, but not very good design when we have these great ANL fuses. I've no experience on #2 as I just went by Bob's drawing. Glenn From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lincoln Keill Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 3:44 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: ANL current limiters in Z13-8 Spent an hour or so trying to visualize where everything is going to mount on the firewall while studying Z-13/8 and came upon Note 10 regarding current limiters. I understand that these are replacing the In-Line Fuses referred to in Chapter 10 of AEC but had these questions: 1. With a 40A alternator, do I use a 40A ANL current limiter? 2. Any reason the 4 AWG wire (and ANL current limiter) from the alternator B lead can't go to the "downstream" side of the battery contactor instead of the "upstream" side of the starter contactor? They both seem to be electrically equivalent particularly since the wire between them is so short. 3. The following is found under Note 10. in AEC: "Alternator noises in the system are reduced by not mounting the alternator breaker on the panel in the traditional fashion...consider installing the breaker as close as possible to the starter contactor" -- Is this referring to the ANL current limiter described above or the circuit breaker for the alternator field? If the latter, I'm confused and hope someone can provide some more explanation. Thanks. Lincoln Keill RV-7A fuselage Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:08:23 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ANL current limiters in Z13-8 From: "Matt Prather" > Lincoln, > > snip > > > I've also got a 80 amp (bargain basement item) alternator that helps > keep the nose down, but unless I install central air-conditioning, I'll > never use the capacity. I've got a 30 A ANL in front of the load. > > > Glenn > > Glenn, Does your battery charging current go through this ANL? If so, on a cold morning after a hard start, I believe your alternator might produce its rated output (restoring the battery) for some amount of time (many seconds), unrelated to bus loads. Seems like the ANL might be opened as a result. Regards, Matt- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:13 PM PST US From: "Bob McCallum" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ANL current limiters in Z13-8 Matt; Don't forget that ANL fuses will carry considerably more than twice their rated current almost indefinitely, certainly for many minutes. It's unlikely that starting, even on those difficult cold mornings will drain the battery enough that the alternator would work hard and long enough to "blow" the ANL. The time constant graph for a 35 amp ANL shown in the attached link is vertical at 90 amps meaning that it will hold indefinitely at that current flow or any lesser value. It's unlikely that an 80 amp alternator would be putting out over 100 amps for an extended period, and that's what it would take to open the ANL. Under ideal conditions the 80 Amp alternator might make it to 90 Amps, but not a lot more. http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/anl/anlvsjjs.html Bob McC > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Prather > Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 5:00 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ANL current limiters in Z13-8 > > > > Lincoln, > > > > > > > snip > > > > > > I've also got a 80 amp (bargain basement item) alternator that helps > > keep the nose down, but unless I install central air-conditioning, I'll > > never use the capacity. I've got a 30 A ANL in front of the load. > > > > > > > > Glenn > > > > > > Glenn, > > Does your battery charging current go through this ANL? If so, on a cold > morning after a hard start, I believe your alternator might produce its > rated output (restoring the battery) for some amount of time (many > seconds), unrelated to bus loads. Seems like the ANL might be opened as a > result. > > > > Regards, > > Matt- > > > > _- > ===================================================== > ===== > _- > ===================================================== > ===== > _- > ===================================================== > ===== > _- > ===================================================== > ===== > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.