Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:15 AM - Filter for Hand held devices (Jay Hyde)
2. 05:29 AM - Re: Filter for Hand held devices (nuckollsr)
3. 05:39 AM - Re: Alternator Noise (nuckollsr)
4. 06:26 AM - Re: Re: Filter for Hand held devices (Jay Hyde)
5. 07:17 AM - Re: Fried Master Wires (susanspy)
6. 07:47 AM - Re: Re: Alternator Noise (Larry Florman)
7. 08:25 AM - Re: Re: Alternator Noise (Jay Hyde)
8. 10:52 AM - Van's gauges (PeterHunt1@aol.com)
9. 11:13 AM - Re: Re: Tachometer Generator Wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 12:14 PM - Re: Re: Alternator Noise (Larry Florman)
11. 12:14 PM - Re: Re: Alternator Noise (Larry Florman)
12. 01:17 PM - Z-13/8 electric components for RV firewall (Lincoln Keill)
13. 03:17 PM - Re: Grounding Lug (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 03:18 PM - Re: Van's gauges (Peter Pengilly)
15. 03:48 PM - Re: Grounding Lug (Richard Girard)
16. 04:22 PM - Wig-Wagging HDI lamps (Eric M. Jones)
17. 04:26 PM - Re: Z-13/8 electric components for RV firewall (Bret Smith)
18. 05:02 PM - Re: Wig-Wagging HDI lamps (Matt Prather)
19. 05:02 PM - Re: Wig-Wagging HDI lamps (Matt Prather)
20. 05:23 PM - Re: Van's gauges (Joe Dubner)
21. 05:23 PM - Re: Van's gauges (Neil Clayton)
22. 05:31 PM - Re: Grounding Lug (MLWynn@aol.com)
23. 05:52 PM - Re: Wig-Wagging HDI lamps (Bob McCallum)
24. 07:13 PM - Re: Grounding Lug (Richard Girard)
25. 07:14 PM - Re: Van's gauges (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
26. 07:47 PM - Re: Grounding Lug (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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Subject: | Filter for Hand held devices |
Hi there Bob,
In your Aeroelectric Connection book/ manual you provide a circuit diagram
for a 'Dual Power Conditioner " (Figure 16.4) where you provide part numbers
for the diodes and inductor components. Would you be able to provide
specifications for these instead? I tried to search Radio Shack for the
inductor part number but had no luck; plus, we have no radio shack in South
Africa so I need to be able to get the part by specification.. :-)
Thanks
Jay
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Filter for Hand held devices |
Are you sure you need the filter? Most modern hand helds supplied with DC power
input jacks and automotive cigar lighter power cords are already configured to
live in the rough and tumble world of vehicular DC power systems. The discussions
on filters and firewalls in the 'Connection are intended to illustrate
SOLUTIONS to noise issues should such problems arise. It's not necessary or recommended
that such devices be included as an expanded design goal.
Bob . . .
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262910#262910
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Alternator Noise |
Keep in mind that perhaps thousands of similar alternator/regulator systems are
flying where the builders have reported no problems with noise in their electronics.
This strongly suggests that the optimum solution to your problem is to
deduce the difference between how your components are installed and wired as
compared to other systems flying.
Can you describe the your radio/audio system and how you configured the ground
system for your electrical and avionics?
One of the reasons that filters are becoming difficult to find is because folks
who design and manufacture accessories have learned how to make them perform
well (tolerate normal and expected noise levels) in vehicular DC power systems.
The optimum solution for your problem may well be a change to configuration
as opposed to adding the cost, weight and complexity of a filter (which may not
fix the problem).
Bob . . .
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262911#262911
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Filter for Hand held devices |
I think that I do need one; I am using a cigarette lighter type connection
to power an Ipod power supply. When I connect this to the Ipod no noise is
heard, but when I connect the Ipod to the radio/ intercom system I
immediately get a high pitched noise in the earphones. I separated the
power and signal leads and the noise stayed. I moved the power supply of
the cigarette/ Ipod charger directly to the battery and the noise stayed. I
will still try a twisted pair on the power supply to the radio/intercom but
it seems to me that the noise is generated by the Ipod charger so I thought
that a filter might do the trick. Perhaps even a ferrite bead on the
positive in to the radio will work.
The only other thing that I can think of is that the loop formed by the
plug->Ipod charger->Ipod audio out->radio/intercom is somehow causing the
problem; but how does one get rid of that loop- its intrinsic to the music
input?
So I am going to try all of these out but need the components for the filter
to give it a bash as well...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nuckollsr
Sent: 14 September 2009 02:28 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Filter for Hand held devices
<bob.nuckolls@aeroelectric.com>
Are you sure you need the filter? Most modern hand helds supplied with DC
power input jacks and automotive cigar lighter power cords are already
configured to live in the rough and tumble world of vehicular DC power
systems. The discussions on filters and firewalls in the 'Connection are
intended to illustrate SOLUTIONS to noise issues should such problems arise.
It's not necessary or recommended that such devices be included as an
expanded design goal.
Bob . . .
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262910#262910
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Fried Master Wires |
hello all,
i am Susan here, i am fun of this place thanks alot for the great informative post
do some more post here.
thanks a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262922#262922
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Alternator Noise |
Bob,
My SeaRey is so tightly wired tha to troubleshoot woul be a massive event ( i.e.
Remove wings, lift engine, drain cooling, etc).
I have a Microaire transceiver and transponder, a PS Engineering intercom. I explicitly
followed the wiring instruction. The com antenna is mounted on top forward
of the engine.
Even the panel is an ordeal to deal with. I guess I am looking for a way around
my inadequacies.
On Sep 14, 2009, at 8:38 AM, "nuckollsr" <bob.nuckolls@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
Keep in mind that perhaps thousands of similar alternator/regulator systems are
flying where the builders have reported no problems with noise in their electronics.
This strongly suggests that the optimum solution to your problem is to
deduce the difference between how your components are installed and wired as
compared to other systems flying.
Can you describe the your radio/audio system and how you configured the ground
system for your electrical and avionics?
One of the reasons that filters are becoming difficult to find is because folks
who design and manufacture accessories have learned how to make them perform
well (tolerate normal and expected noise levels) in vehicular DC power systems.
The optimum solution for your problem may well be a change to configuration
as opposed to adding the cost, weight and complexity of a filter (which may not
fix the problem).
Bob . . .
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262911#262911
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Alternator Noise |
Do you have a large capacitor between the outgoing positive of the regulator
and ground, as suggested on Z-16?
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Florman
Sent: 14 September 2009 04:38 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator Noise
<larryflo@prodigy.net>
Bob,
My SeaRey is so tightly wired tha to troubleshoot woul be a massive event (
i.e. Remove wings, lift engine, drain cooling, etc).
I have a Microaire transceiver and transponder, a PS Engineering intercom. I
explicitly followed the wiring instruction. The com antenna is mounted on
top forward of the engine.
Even the panel is an ordeal to deal with. I guess I am looking for a way
around my inadequacies.
On Sep 14, 2009, at 8:38 AM, "nuckollsr" <bob.nuckolls@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
<bob.nuckolls@aeroelectric.com>
Keep in mind that perhaps thousands of similar alternator/regulator systems
are flying where the builders have reported no problems with noise in their
electronics. This strongly suggests that the optimum solution to your
problem is to deduce the difference between how your components are
installed and wired as compared to other systems flying.
Can you describe the your radio/audio system and how you configured the
ground system for your electrical and avionics?
One of the reasons that filters are becoming difficult to find is because
folks who design and manufacture accessories have learned how to make them
perform well (tolerate normal and expected noise levels) in vehicular DC
power systems. The optimum solution for your problem may well be a change to
configuration as opposed to adding the cost, weight and complexity of a
filter (which may not fix the problem).
Bob . . .
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262911#262911
Message 8
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In 420 house over three plus years a number of Van's gauges have failed
(fuel quantity, volts, amps, oil pressure). Now I must install the third volt
meter. I like the look of Van's gauges and the fact that they match, but
don't like the failure rate. What have your experiences been?
Pete in Clearwater
RV-6 - Reserve Grand Champion, S 'n F 2006 and other awards
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Tachometer Generator Wiring |
At 03:30 PM 9/13/2009, you wrote:
><capav8r@gmail.com>
>
>Thanks Bob. I have been told by some other folks that the tach gen
>can be a significant source of noise. It is my understanding that
>in the original wiring in this aircraft (Yak) the tach gen leads were shielded.
>
>Craig
>
I dont' see how . . . These are 3-phase, pm
alternators delivering data on a twisted trio
of wires . . .
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Alternator Noise |
Yes
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 14, 2009, at 11:23 AM, "Jay Hyde" <jay@horriblehyde.com> wrote:
Do you have a large capacitor between the outgoing positive of the regulator
and ground, as suggested on Z-16?
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Florman
Sent: 14 September 2009 04:38 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator Noise
<larryflo@prodigy.net>
Bob,
My SeaRey is so tightly wired tha to troubleshoot woul be a massive event (
i.e. Remove wings, lift engine, drain cooling, etc).
I have a Microaire transceiver and transponder, a PS Engineering intercom. I
explicitly followed the wiring instruction. The com antenna is mounted on
top forward of the engine.
Even the panel is an ordeal to deal with. I guess I am looking for a way
around my inadequacies.
On Sep 14, 2009, at 8:38 AM, "nuckollsr" <bob.nuckolls@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
<bob.nuckolls@aeroelectric.com>
Keep in mind that perhaps thousands of similar alternator/regulator systems
are flying where the builders have reported no problems with noise in their
electronics. This strongly suggests that the optimum solution to your
problem is to deduce the difference between how your components are
installed and wired as compared to other systems flying.
Can you describe the your radio/audio system and how you configured the
ground system for your electrical and avionics?
One of the reasons that filters are becoming difficult to find is because
folks who design and manufacture accessories have learned how to make them
perform well (tolerate normal and expected noise levels) in vehicular DC
power systems. The optimum solution for your problem may well be a change to
configuration as opposed to adding the cost, weight and complexity of a
filter (which may not fix the problem).
Bob . . .
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262911#262911
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Alternator Noise |
Yep.
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 14, 2009, at 11:23 AM, "Jay Hyde" <jay@horriblehyde.com> wrote:
Do you have a large capacitor between the outgoing positive of the regulator
and ground, as suggested on Z-16?
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Florman
Sent: 14 September 2009 04:38 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator Noise
<larryflo@prodigy.net>
Bob,
My SeaRey is so tightly wired tha to troubleshoot woul be a massive event (
i.e. Remove wings, lift engine, drain cooling, etc).
I have a Microaire transceiver and transponder, a PS Engineering intercom. I
explicitly followed the wiring instruction. The com antenna is mounted on
top forward of the engine.
Even the panel is an ordeal to deal with. I guess I am looking for a way
around my inadequacies.
On Sep 14, 2009, at 8:38 AM, "nuckollsr" <bob.nuckolls@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
<bob.nuckolls@aeroelectric.com>
Keep in mind that perhaps thousands of similar alternator/regulator systems
are flying where the builders have reported no problems with noise in their
electronics. This strongly suggests that the optimum solution to your
problem is to deduce the difference between how your components are
installed and wired as compared to other systems flying.
Can you describe the your radio/audio system and how you configured the
ground system for your electrical and avionics?
One of the reasons that filters are becoming difficult to find is because
folks who design and manufacture accessories have learned how to make them
perform well (tolerate normal and expected noise levels) in vehicular DC
power systems. The optimum solution for your problem may well be a change to
configuration as opposed to adding the cost, weight and complexity of a
filter (which may not fix the problem).
Bob . . .
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262911#262911
Message 12
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Subject: | Z-13/8 electric components for RV firewall |
Could an RV-driver with a Z-13/8 system post a link to any pictures/diagram
s/descriptions they have of the location of the electrical system component
s (battery, contactors, grounding lugs, etc.) on their firewall as well as
wire pass-throughs? -I searched under the archive and found information o
n throttle/mixture cable location but nothing about where all the electric
stuff goes. -Van's suggestion won't work and I'm loathe to start drilling
holes until I know for sure where everything is going to go and not interf
ere with something else down the road. -Thanks.
Lincoln Keill
airlincoln@sbcglobal.net
RV-7A fuselage
Do Not Archive
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Grounding Lug |
At 12:40 AM 9/13/2009, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I am building an RV 8. The battery is rear mounted. I was planning
>to ground the battery to the lower longeron that is directly
>adjacent. I checked with Vans, who said that four or five rivets no
>closer than 1/2 inch apart is fine structurally.
>
>I had previously primed the longeron, so I carefully scraped that
>off and buffed it up with white Scotchbrite. I built a lug of 1/8th
>aluminum with a 1/4" nutplate on the bottom, which I also carefully
>polished up. The question is, is it okay to just rivet these two
>pieces of aluminum together or is there something I should sandwich
>in between them to improve the connection? Does the bond need to be
>sealed with dielectric grease or some such? What have others done
>in this situation?
The goals for achieving gas-tightness of
the conducting materials are the same for
your ground lug as for putting terminals on
a piece of wire.
Don't take the corrosion proofing off your
nutplate . . . or other hardware. In fact,
there's no need to scuff the facing aluminum
parts, just get them clean.
Screws would be better than rivets. Rivets
are SHEAR fasteners and what you're trying
to achieve is a intimate contact between two
pieces of metal with TENSION fasteners.
4 - 5 stainless steel, 6-32 screws torqued
to values recommended by the manufacturer
(or AC43-13) would be better. A light coat
of silicone grease between faying surfaces
of the aluminum would be good too.
Having said all that, know that a whole
lot of folks have installed ground lugs
thusly . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Batteries/Battery_Install_OBrien_2.jpg
. . . and they're probably gong to be just
fine.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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Similar, my pressure and temperature gauges failed at around 400 hours.
So
all of the Van=92s gauges, save for fuel gauges, were pull out and
replaced
with a GRT EIS 4000. Now approaching 700 hours I=92m going to replace
the fuel
gauges with a dual UMA 2 =BC.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
PeterHunt1@aol.com
Sent: 14 September 2009 18:46
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Van's gauges
In 420 house over three plus years a number of Van's gauges have failed
(fuel quantity, volts, amps, oil pressure). Now I must install the
third
volt meter. I like the look of Van's gauges and the fact that they
match,
but don't like the failure rate. What have your experiences been?
Pete in Clearwater
RV-6 - Reserve Grand Champion, S 'n F 2006 and other awards
_____
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Grounding Lug |
You can also alodine the parts before riveting / bolting.
Rick Girard
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 12:40 AM 9/13/2009, you wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am building an RV 8. The battery is rear mounted. I was planning to
> ground the battery to the lower longeron that is directly adjacent. I
> checked with Vans, who said that four or five rivets no closer than 1/2 inch
> apart is fine structurally.
>
> I had previously primed the longeron, so I carefully scraped that off and
> buffed it up with white Scotchbrite. I built a lug of 1/8th aluminum with a
> 1/4" nutplate on the bottom, which I also carefully polished up. The
> question is, is it okay to just rivet these two pieces of aluminum together
> or is there something I should sandwich in between them to improve the
> connection? Does the bond need to be sealed with dielectric grease or some
> such? What have others done in this situation?
>
>
> The goals for achieving gas-tightness of
> the conducting materials are the same for
> your ground lug as for putting terminals on
> a piece of wire.
>
> Don't take the corrosion proofing off your
> nutplate . . . or other hardware. In fact,
> there's no need to scuff the facing aluminum
> parts, just get them clean.
>
> Screws would be better than rivets. Rivets
> are SHEAR fasteners and what you're trying
> to achieve is a intimate contact between two
> pieces of metal with TENSION fasteners.
> 4 - 5 stainless steel, 6-32 screws torqued
> to values recommended by the manufacturer
> (or AC43-13) would be better. A light coat
> of silicone grease between faying surfaces
> of the aluminum would be good too.
>
> Having said all that, know that a whole
> lot of folks have installed ground lugs
> thusly . . .
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Batteries/Battery_Install_OBrien_2.jpg
>
> . . . and they're probably gong to be just
> fine.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 16
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Subject: | Wig-Wagging HDI lamps |
More and more I get this inquiry: "I want to use your Wig-wag with HDI lamps. Duckworth
says they need to warm up for ten minutes and then they wig-wag fine.
I reply:
Yes, I have been looking at the problem. I even have a set here to measure. But...
In a previous life, I spent almost three decades building high power xenon short-arc,
HDI, and halogen lamp systems. So I have long experience with both the
lamps and their power supplies and their foibles. And I know in detail what is
needed to wig-wag them.
So my problem is--everything I know says not to wig-wag the HDI lamps because they
will have short lamp lifetimes. Everything that is an advantage of HDI lamps
disappears quickly if one abuses them by (let's say) 2500 restarts per hour.
Many problems with HDIs don't occur in any simple way either. There are second-
and even third- order problems to contend with. Furthermore, switched mode
power supplies and starters are particularly failure-prone when abused. I can
guarantee that the manufacturer of the lamp-supply-starter DO NOT warranty their
devices to be used in this fashion.
If the HDI lamp sellers insist that their lamps can be wig-wagged, I would love
to see the 100 hour data.
Until then, I cannot recommend using the Perihelion Design wig-wags for HDI lamps.
Maybe other manufacturers have a different opinion.
Any thoughts?
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263038#263038
Message 17
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Subject: | Z-13/8 electric components for RV firewall |
Lincoln,
You are welcome to check my site. Look under "Wiring" and "FWF"
Bret Smith
RV-9A N16BL
Blue Ridge, Ga
www.FlightInnovations.com <http://www.flightinnovations.com/>
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lincoln
Keill
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 4:07 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-13/8 electric components for RV firewall
Could an RV-driver with a Z-13/8 system post a link to any
pictures/diagrams/descriptions they have of the location of the electrical
system components (battery, contactors, grounding lugs, etc.) on their
firewall as well as wire pass-throughs? I searched under the archive and
found information on throttle/mixture cable location but nothing about where
all the electric stuff goes. Van's suggestion won't work and I'm loathe to
start drilling holes until I know for sure where everything is going to go
and not interfere with something else down the road. Thanks.
Lincoln Keill
airlincoln@sbcglobal.net
RV-7A fuselage
Do Not Archive
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Wig-Wagging HDI lamps |
Go old school and use a mechanical solution.. How about a rotating mirror
(or lens) like in the old bubblegum lamps on a cop car? Can cause the
wig-wagging effect, and not just straight ahead - off to the side too.
The mirror could have a position where it's completely out of the path of
the beam allowing "steady burning" behavior, and full output - no
attenuation from the reflection.
Matt-
> <emjones@charter.net>
>
> More and more I get this inquiry: "I want to use your Wig-wag with HDI
> lamps. Duckworth says they need to warm up for ten minutes and then they
> wig-wag fine.
>
> I reply:
>
> Yes, I have been looking at the problem. I even have a set here to
> measure. But...
>
> In a previous life, I spent almost three decades building high power xenon
> short-arc, HDI, and halogen lamp systems. So I have long experience with
> both the lamps and their power supplies and their foibles. And I know in
> detail what is needed to wig-wag them.
>
> So my problem is--everything I know says not to wig-wag the HDI lamps
> because they will have short lamp lifetimes. Everything that is an
> advantage of HDI lamps disappears quickly if one abuses them by (let's
> say) 2500 restarts per hour. Many problems with HDIs don't occur in any
> simple way either. There are second- and even third- order problems to
> contend with. Furthermore, switched mode power supplies and starters are
> particularly failure-prone when abused. I can guarantee that the
> manufacturer of the lamp-supply-starter DO NOT warranty their devices to
> be used in this fashion.
>
> If the HDI lamp sellers insist that their lamps can be wig-wagged, I would
> love to see the 100 hour data.
>
> Until then, I cannot recommend using the Perihelion Design wig-wags for
> HDI lamps. Maybe other manufacturers have a different opinion.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones@charter.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263038#263038
>
>
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Wig-Wagging HDI lamps |
Oh yeah.. And bring on the LED's.. I don't think they particularly
suffer from cycling, as long as the peak current is kept under control.
> Go old school and use a mechanical solution.. How about a rotating mirror
> (or lens) like in the old bubblegum lamps on a cop car? Can cause the
> wig-wagging effect, and not just straight ahead - off to the side too.
> The mirror could have a position where it's completely out of the path of
> the beam allowing "steady burning" behavior, and full output - no
> attenuation from the reflection.
>
>
> Matt-
>
>> <emjones@charter.net>
>>
>> More and more I get this inquiry: "I want to use your Wig-wag with HDI
>> lamps. Duckworth says they need to warm up for ten minutes and then they
>> wig-wag fine.
>>
>> I reply:
>>
>> Yes, I have been looking at the problem. I even have a set here to
>> measure. But...
>>
>> In a previous life, I spent almost three decades building high power
>> xenon
>> short-arc, HDI, and halogen lamp systems. So I have long experience with
>> both the lamps and their power supplies and their foibles. And I know in
>> detail what is needed to wig-wag them.
>>
>> So my problem is--everything I know says not to wig-wag the HDI lamps
>> because they will have short lamp lifetimes. Everything that is an
>> advantage of HDI lamps disappears quickly if one abuses them by (let's
>> say) 2500 restarts per hour. Many problems with HDIs don't occur in any
>> simple way either. There are second- and even third- order problems to
>> contend with. Furthermore, switched mode power supplies and starters are
>> particularly failure-prone when abused. I can guarantee that the
>> manufacturer of the lamp-supply-starter DO NOT warranty their devices to
>> be used in this fashion.
>>
>> If the HDI lamp sellers insist that their lamps can be wig-wagged, I
>> would
>> love to see the 100 hour data.
>>
>> Until then, I cannot recommend using the Perihelion Design wig-wags for
>> HDI lamps. Maybe other manufacturers have a different opinion.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> --------
>> Eric M. Jones
>> www.PerihelionDesign.com
>> 113 Brentwood Drive
>> Southbridge, MA 01550
>> (508) 764-2072
>> emjones@charter.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263038#263038
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Van's gauges |
Similar to your and Peter Penquilly's poor experiences, my oil pressure
gauge (the only Van's gauge in my Long-EZ) can charitably be described
as "flaky". The basic gauge itself is not reliable as proven on a bench
test with a fixed resistance to replace the sender.
--
Joe
Independence, OR
Aircraft Position: http://www.mail2600.com/position
PeterHunt1@aol.com wrote:
> In 420 house over three plus years a number of Van's gauges have failed
> (fuel quantity, volts, amps, oil pressure). Now I must install the third volt
> meter. I like the look of Van's gauges and the fact that they match, but
> don't like the failure rate. What have your experiences been?
>
> Pete in Clearwater
> RV-6 - Reserve Grand Champion, S 'n F 2006 and other awards
>
Message 21
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|
Of all the teething troubles I've experienced
since my plane first flew (about 60 hours on the
airframe now), almost ALL were caused by %^$#&* Van's gauges lying to me.
I spent 6 months chasing hot oil till I realized it was a lie.
The RPM at cruise at 180 kts is regularly reported by Van's as 1000 Revs.
The ammeter swings from full -ve to full +ve all the time in flight.
Voltage display is about 11v most of the time (I
have a digital voltmeter hooked up to the bus showing a true 13.5 volts)
Lately, the CHT on #4 has gone to 450 indicated -
but nothing has been changed to the cooling flow.
I'm gonna take great pleasure in dumping these
trash gauges in the pool and installing a Dynon EIS as soon as I can.
Recommendation to anyone contemplating these gauges is - DON'T! They're
junk!
Neil
At 06:10 PM 9/14/2009, you wrote:
>Similar, my pressure and temperature gauges
>failed at around 400 hours. So all of the Van=92s
>gauges, save for fuel gauges, were pull out and
>replaced with a GRT EIS 4000. Now approaching
>700 hours I=92m going to replace the fuel gauges with a dual UMA 2 =BC.
>
>Peter
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:
>owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]
>On Behalf Of PeterHunt1@aol.com
>Sent: 14 September 2009 18:46
>To: RV6-list@matronics.com; aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Van's gauges
>
>In 420 house over three plus years a number of
>Van's gauges have failed (fuel quantity, volts,
>amps, oil pressure). Now I must install the
>third volt meter. I like the look of Van's
>gauges and the fact that they match, but don't
>like the failure rate. What have your experiences been?
>
>Pete in Clearwater
>RV-6 - Reserve Grand Champion, S 'n F 2006 and other awards
>
>
>----------
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>
>
>http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Grounding Lug |
I have used conversion coating before priming for much of the
substructure. This conducts well?
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8
San Ramon, CA
In a message dated 9/14/2009 3:49:56 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
aslsa.rng@gmail.com writes:
You can also alodine the parts before riveting / bolting.
Rick Girard
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
<_nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com_ (mailto:nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com) > wrote:
At 12:40 AM 9/13/2009, you wrote:
Hi all,
I am building an RV 8. The battery is rear mounted. I was planning to
ground the battery to the lower longeron that is directly adjacent. I
checked with Vans, who said that four or five rivets no closer than 1/2 inch
apart is fine structurally.
I had previously primed the longeron, so I carefully scraped that off and
buffed it up with white Scotchbrite. I built a lug of 1/8th aluminum with
a 1/4" nutplate on the bottom, which I also carefully polished up. The
question is, is it okay to just rivet these two pieces of aluminum together or
is there something I should sandwich in between them to improve the
connection? Does the bond need to be sealed with dielectric grease or some such?
What have others done in this situation?
The goals for achieving gas-tightness of
the conducting materials are the same for
your ground lug as for putting terminals on
a piece of wire.
Don't take the corrosion proofing off your
nutplate . . . or other hardware. In fact,
there's no need to scuff the facing aluminum
parts, just get them clean.
Screws would be better than rivets. Rivets
are SHEAR fasteners and what you're trying
to achieve is a intimate contact between two
pieces of metal with TENSION fasteners.
4 - 5 stainless steel, 6-32 screws torqued
to values recommended by the manufacturer
(or AC43-13) would be better. A light coat
of silicone grease between faying surfaces
of the aluminum would be good too.
Having said all that, know that a whole
lot of folks have installed ground lugs
thusly . . .
_http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Batteries/Battery_Install_OBrien_2.jpg_
(http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Batteries/Battery_Install_OBrien_2.jpg)
. . . and they're probably gong to be just
fine.
Bob . . .
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 23
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Subject: | Wig-Wagging HDI lamps |
Eric;
LoPresti Speed Merchants market their "Boom Beam" lights as HID technology.
They claim that this product http://loprestiaviation.com/PowerPulse.htm can
be used in conjunction with them without damaging the HID system, and is in
fact STC approved. The shortfalls you are citing, they claim to be urban
myth. Not taking sides here, but there are obviously two opinions on the
subject of wig-wag HID lights. Assuming of course that my supposition is
correct that LoPresti lights are in fact HID in the same sense that you are
describing. i.e. apples to apples comparison. Modern automotive HID's
certainly don't need the 10 minute warm-up mentioned below by Duckworth to
be switched on and off repeatedly. Don't know however what damage this may
be causing. Your supposition of shortening the life may well be true.
Bob McC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M. Jones
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 7:20 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wagging HDI lamps
>
<emjones@charter.net>
>
> More and more I get this inquiry: "I want to use your Wig-wag with HDI
lamps.
> Duckworth says they need to warm up for ten minutes and then they wig-wag
fine.
>
> I reply:
>
> Yes, I have been looking at the problem. I even have a set here to
measure. But...
>
> In a previous life, I spent almost three decades building high power xenon
short-arc,
> HDI, and halogen lamp systems. So I have long experience with both the
lamps and
> their power supplies and their foibles. And I know in detail what is
needed to wig-wag
> them.
>
> So my problem is--everything I know says not to wig-wag the HDI lamps
because they
> will have short lamp lifetimes. Everything that is an advantage of HDI
lamps disappears
> quickly if one abuses them by (let's say) 2500 restarts per hour. Many
problems with
> HDIs don't occur in any simple way either. There are second- and even
third- order
> problems to contend with. Furthermore, switched mode power supplies and
starters are
> particularly failure-prone when abused. I can guarantee that the
manufacturer of the
> lamp-supply-starter DO NOT warranty their devices to be used in this
fashion.
>
> If the HDI lamp sellers insist that their lamps can be wig-wagged, I would
love to see
> the 100 hour data.
>
> Until then, I cannot recommend using the Perihelion Design wig-wags for
HDI lamps.
> Maybe other manufacturers have a different opinion.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones@charter.net
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263038#263038
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _-
> =====================================================
> =====
> _-
> =====================================================
> =====
> _-
> =====================================================
> =====
> _-
> =====================================================
> =====
>
>
Message 24
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|
Subject: | Re: Grounding Lug |
Yes, conductivity is the way Boeing tests material coming off the coating
line at their Auburn facility. It's too hard to tell the difference between
alodine and anodize by color but the conductivity test is conclusive. If it
conducts, it's alodine, if it doesn't, it's anodize.
Rick Girard
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 7:27 PM, <MLWynn@aol.com> wrote:
> I have used conversion coating before priming for much of the
> substructure. This conducts well?
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael Wynn
> RV 8
> San Ramon, CA
>
> In a message dated 9/14/2009 3:49:56 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> aslsa.rng@gmail.com writes:
>
> You can also alodine the parts before riveting / bolting.
> Rick Girard
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>> At 12:40 AM 9/13/2009, you wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am building an RV 8. The battery is rear mounted. I was planning to
>> ground the battery to the lower longeron that is directly adjacent. I
>> checked with Vans, who said that four or five rivets no closer than 1/2 inch
>> apart is fine structurally.
>>
>> I had previously primed the longeron, so I carefully scraped that off and
>> buffed it up with white Scotchbrite. I built a lug of 1/8th aluminum with a
>> 1/4" nutplate on the bottom, which I also carefully polished up. The
>> question is, is it okay to just rivet these two pieces of aluminum together
>> or is there something I should sandwich in between them to improve the
>> connection? Does the bond need to be sealed with dielectric grease or some
>> such? What have others done in this situation?
>>
>>
>> The goals for achieving gas-tightness of
>> the conducting materials are the same for
>> your ground lug as for putting terminals on
>> a piece of wire.
>>
>> Don't take the corrosion proofing off your
>> nutplate . . . or other hardware. In fact,
>> there's no need to scuff the facing aluminum
>> parts, just get them clean.
>>
>> Screws would be better than rivets. Rivets
>> are SHEAR fasteners and what you're trying
>> to achieve is a intimate contact between two
>> pieces of metal with TENSION fasteners.
>> 4 - 5 stainless steel, 6-32 screws torqued
>> to values recommended by the manufacturer
>> (or AC43-13) would be better. A light coat
>> of silicone grease between faying surfaces
>> of the aluminum would be good too.
>>
>> Having said all that, know that a whole
>> lot of folks have installed ground lugs
>> thusly . . .
>>
>> http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Batteries/Battery_Install_OBrien_2.jpg
>>
>> . . . and they're probably gong to be just
>> fine.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>> *
>>
>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
> *
>
> ===================================
> List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> ====================================ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 25
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>Voltage display is about 11v most of the time (I have a digital
>voltmeter hooked up to the bus showing a true 13.5 volts)
Under what conditions? With the engine running and the
alternator supporting all the ship's electrical loads,
one would expect 14.2 to 14.6 volts on the bus.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 26
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Subject: | Re: Grounding Lug |
At 09:02 PM 9/14/2009, you wrote:
>Yes, conductivity is the way Boeing tests material coming off the
>coating line at their Auburn facility. It's too hard to tell the
>difference between alodine and anodize by color but the conductivity
>test is conclusive. If it conducts, it's alodine, if it doesn't, it's anodize.
Alodine and other conversion coatings are "synthetic
rust" wherein the end product is less undesirable than
the naturally occurring alternatives. These treatments
have more to do with protection of the exposed surfaces
from environmental effects.
The definition of a gas-tight joint is that environmental
effects are mechanically excluded from entry. This is
accomplished first by upsetting the two metal surfaces of
interest such that they're mashed together so tightly
that bad stuff can't get in. Micro-gaps can be closed
with things like dielectric greases (silicone) that
squish out of metal-to-metal contact but "plug"
any voids were the metal surfaces do not quite come
together.
While protective surface conversions of any type
may be beneficial to the base metal, they can offer
no particular enhancement of electrical bonding between
two pieces when you put the mash on them.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
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