---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 09/15/09: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:51 AM - P-lead as a source for a tachometer (Craig Winkelmann) 2. 04:53 AM - Re: Tachometer Generator Wiring (Craig Winkelmann) 3. 05:41 AM - Re: Wig-Wagging HDI lamps (Dan Brown) 4. 05:42 AM - Re: P-lead as a source for a tachometer (Richard Girard) 5. 05:54 AM - Re: P-lead as a source for a tachometer (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 06:14 AM - Re: P-lead as a source for a tachometer (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 06:14 AM - Re: Re: Tachometer Generator Wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 06:28 AM - Re: P-lead as a source for a tachometer (Ian) 9. 07:50 AM - Fat wires out of cockpit???? (CardinalNSB@aol.com) 10. 09:55 AM - Re: Fat wires out of cockpit???? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 12:21 PM - Re: Tachometer Generator Wiring (Craig Winkelmann) 12. 01:00 PM - Wire Marker Label Printer (Wade Roe) 13. 01:59 PM - Re: Wire Marker Label Printer () 14. 02:47 PM - fuel flow transducer location (Wade Roe) 15. 03:20 PM - Re: fuel flow transducer location (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 16. 03:21 PM - Re: fuel flow transducer location (Michael W Stewart) 17. 04:21 PM - Re: Wire Marker Label Printer (BobsV35B@aol.com) 18. 04:48 PM - Re: Wire Marker Label Printer (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 19. 07:22 PM - Re: Wig-Wagging HDI lamps (Bob McCallum) 20. 07:23 PM - Re: P-lead as a source for a tachometer (Craig Winkelmann) 21. 09:41 PM - d-sub connectors and current carrying capacity (Jason Beaver) 22. 10:18 PM - test (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 23. 10:23 PM - Re: d-sub connectors and current carrying capacity (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:51 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: P-lead as a source for a tachometer From: "Craig Winkelmann" I am trying to figure out how a p-lead is used as a signal source for a tach. Not how it is wired, but more of the theory behind it. Questions like: 1) what does the signal look like (square wave, sawtooth, sine, etc) 2) What is the typical amplitude 3) why is the p-lead a typical source of noise in the RF range 4) how is the signal produced when the original intent of the p-lead was as a way to ground the magneto and shut down the engine. 5) how do p-lead tachometers typically prevent from a failure that would ground the p-lead. Thanks, Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263104#263104 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:06 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Tachometer Generator Wiring From: "Craig Winkelmann" I am deducing from this discussion that the tach gen is the likely source of the noise. Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263105#263105 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:57 AM PST US From: Dan Brown Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wagging HDI lamps -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Bob McCallum wrote: > LoPresti Speed Merchants market their "Boom Beam" lights as HID technology. > They claim that this product http://loprestiaviation.com/PowerPulse.htm can > be used in conjunction with them without damaging the HID system, and is in XeVision also has a pulsing system for their HID lights. It apparently does shorten the lamp life, as their warranty is reduced from 5000 hours without the pulsing to 3000 hours with it. - -- Dan Brown, KE6MKS, dan@familybrown.org "Since all the world is but a story, it were well for thee to buy the more enduring story rather than the story that is less enduring." -- The Judgment of St. Colum Cille -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFKr4QMyQGUivXxtkERAnCyAKCNUlz4NBbIu1Yjk7VwpePTRIdkIgCgj36S 0tpJwHtRkh6nCx1rVsn8Imw =lG1o -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:06 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: P-lead as a source for a tachometer From: Richard Girard Just curious, how will you check for rpm drop between mags if the tach goes dead when one p lead is grounded? Rick Girard On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 6:49 AM, Craig Winkelmann wrote: > capav8r@gmail.com> > > I am trying to figure out how a p-lead is used as a signal source for a > tach. Not how it is wired, but more of the theory behind it. Questions > like: > > 1) what does the signal look like (square wave, sawtooth, sine, etc) > > 2) What is the typical amplitude > > 3) why is the p-lead a typical source of noise in the RF range > > 4) how is the signal produced when the original intent of the p-lead was as > a way to ground the magneto and shut down the engine. > > 5) how do p-lead tachometers typically prevent from a failure that would > ground the p-lead. > > Thanks, > > Craig > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263104#263104 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:54 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: P-lead as a source for a tachometer At 06:49 AM 9/15/2009, you wrote: > > >I am trying to figure out how a p-lead is used as a signal source >for a tach. Not how it is wired, but more of the theory behind >it. Questions like: > >1) what does the signal look like (square wave, sawtooth, sine, etc) Very ragged sorta square wave. At least when the points are closed, the waveform is steady at zero volts. When the points open, the magnetic field stored in the inductive iron is allowed to collapse rapidly. Like the battery powered points/condenser/ coil Kettering system, this mechanically powered energy storage system delivers a fast rising, high voltage transient in the fine turns of the secondary winding (spark energy) while a ratiometric image of the same waveform appears across the now open windings of the primary . . . or P-lead. >2) What is the typical amplitude The peak voltages can be on the order of 200-300 volts. It's an damped oscillatory waveform who's period is set by the inductance/capacitance combination of the system and damped by the loss of energy that is running out to the spark plug. >3) why is the p-lead a typical source of noise in the RF range Any and all perturbations of current/voltage magnitude can be called "noise". The RATE at which they vary combined with amplitude of the change sets the parameters for the frequency spectrum over which the energy is distributed and propagates. When I mentioned FAST rise time earlier, this suggests an unusual opportunity for effects to extend well up into the RF spectrum. When we combine that with HIGH voltage, the energy signature becomes potentially antagonistic. FAST rise times is the key phrase that suggests why shielding p-leads is useful. It's waveforms with high dv/dt (differential) numbers that propagate electro-statically from one conductor to another. >4) how is the signal produced when the original intent of the p-lead >was as a way to ground the magneto and shut down the engine. The P-lead is connected in parallel with the points which are themselves connected in parallel with the primary winding of the magneto's pulse transformer and the damping condenser. Closing the switch at the end of a P-lead essentially keeps the "points closed" all the time thus terminating the train of sparks. >5) how do p-lead tachometers typically prevent from a failure that >would ground the p-lead. If poorly designed, yes. I've never seen one that offer this risk. The design goal for a tachometer that watches magneto p-leads is to first offer a load impedance that is sufficiently high as to NOT load normal operation of the magneto. The next task is to figure out a way to ignore the trash on the p-lead waveform that might be mis-interpreted as a signal proportional to engine RPM. My favorite way to do this is with an active band-pass filter that only allows the frequency of interest (30 to 150 Hz) to pass. My last crack at a smoothing circuit followed the band-pass filter with a phase-locked loop that produced a pristine square wave that would not upset the poorest of tachometers. The input impedance to the system was over 1000 ohms. Incapable of causing mischief in the ignition system Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:34 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: P-lead as a source for a tachometer Post Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Tachometer Generator Wiring Reply with quote ---------- Bob: The problem I have is that at RPM below 1000, I get noise in the signal and the tach jumps all over the place. Over 1000 RPM and all is fine. The radial engine idles at 500 rpm so this is a problem. The tach gen wires go to a circuit that is a basically a voltage divider and a comparator to provide a clean pulse for the engine monitor system. It has been suggested to 1) shield the tach gen wires to reduce noise, 2) add a 0.1 microfarad ceramic capacitor as a filter, and/or 3) change the voltage at which the comparator triggers (raise the limit for it to trigger). Craig, Sorry, I got side tracked by the use of the term "tach generator" in your original posting. The 2-wire device you're describing is not the traditional tach generator but SOME form of transducer. If it's just a 2-wire device, it MIGHT be a permanent magnet generator of some kind, most hall effect sensors require a third wire to carry 5-12 volts out to the tach TRANSDUCER's electronics. But a clever designer COULD make halls work on the end of a two-wire loop too. I suspect that the 500 rpm thing is the problem. Your tach/instrument combination may well have been crafted for the more common aircraft engines that don't even IDLE at 500 RPM. If the transducer is a magnet/coil signal source, the low speed operation may well be producing a signal below the design goals by which the system was crafted. The fact that your difficulty clears up at higher speeds reinforces this suggestion. So you may be correct in your supposition that the circuitry needs to be tweaked to new design goals (stable ops at low speed). Without a schematic, parts values and waveform data, it's not possible to offer more specific assistance. Do you have access to such information? In any case, this isn't a noise problem in the classic sense that the tachometer system is talking to or being upset by another system. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:34 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Tachometer Generator Wiring At 06:52 AM 9/15/2009, you wrote: > > >I am deducing from this discussion that the tach gen is the likely >source of the noise. > >Craig When you say "tach gen" . . . exactly what kind of device are you describing? The ORIGINAL tachometer generators were permanent magnet, 3-phase alternators that produced about 20 VRMS of sine wave energy that was applied to a drag-cup "speedometer" on the panel calibrated in RPM. This was about the most noise-free system on board the airplane. Low frequency, sine wave, (i.e. SLOW rise times), 3-wire twisted pair signal cable. But just as every copy machine has been referred to as a Xerox machine, lots of tachometer TRANSDUCERS have been called TACH GENERATORS. But even then, once we depart the realm of 3-phase energy on a twisted trio, the kinds of signals produced by most transducers are very low energy (magnets flying past hall sensors). The crank position sensors on a Light Speed ignition are tach transducers and crank position sensors. They are not potential sources of noise to the rest of the airplane's systems. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: P-lead as a source for a tachometer From: Ian When I installed p-lead signal-sourced RPM monitoring, I learned that the signal is basically a pulse, not a nice sig. gen. produced signal. It's going to be around 100V and in my installation (into a Rocky Mountain engine monitor) there is no noticeable noise that would be attributed to P-lead. In speaking with Unisom I learned that my Slick magnetos do not need shielding on the P-leads, and that seems to be true. As to how it works, I like to think of it a bit like the ear. There is air on one side, transmitting sound, and air on the other side of the ear drum (capacitor) receiving the vibrations and passing them to the middle ear. Unless the ear drum breaks (capacitor fuses into a dead short) there is no communication between the air on the outside and the air on the inside. Ian Brown On Tue, 2009-09-15 at 04:49 -0700, Craig Winkelmann wrote: > > I am trying to figure out how a p-lead is used as a signal source for a tach. Not how it is wired, but more of the theory behind it. Questions like: > > 1) what does the signal look like (square wave, sawtooth, sine, etc) > > 2) What is the typical amplitude > > 3) why is the p-lead a typical source of noise in the RF range > > 4) how is the signal produced when the original intent of the p-lead was as a way to ground the magneto and shut down the engine. > > 5) how do p-lead tachometers typically prevent from a failure that would ground the p-lead. > > Thanks, > > Craig > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263104#263104 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:00 AM PST US From: CardinalNSB@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fat wires out of cockpit???? First, this is a Cessna, not an experimental; my ap is ok with this, but will it help? Currently, the alternator output wire tuns from the alternator at rightside forward of the engine, straight back to the firewall, behind the engine to the left (pilot's side) of the firewall, then into the cabin, then to the extreme right side of the cockpit where it goes into a breaker about 3 inches from the right side fuselage outer skin. The bottom of the breaker feeds the bus, then at the end of the bus there is a a fat wire to the ammeter just under the pilot's yoke, then back out the same hole through the firewall, then down to the battery side of the starter contaactor. That seems like alot of wire. I have to keep the cb in the cockpit. I wll use a stc va meter to replace the Cessna ammeter, and will use a remote shunt, not allowed to rely only on a voltmeter. I am considering running the wire through the right side of the firewall to the breaker, then back out of the breaker the same way it came in, then over to the pilot side and tie into the starter contactor lug. The bus would still run off of the breaker. 1. Is there concern for the fat wires "cvoming and going" through the same hole, should I twist them together, are there shielding issues? 2. Should the shunt be inside or outside the cabin? Does the shunt create electrical interference? 3. If there is no downside to doing this I will do it for the aesthetics and weight savings alone, since I am replacing the wiring anyway. Thank you, Skip ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:12 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fat wires out of cockpit???? At 09:36 AM 9/15/2009, you wrote: >First, this is a Cessna, not an experimental; my ap is ok with >this, but will it help? > >Currently, the alternator output wire tuns from the alternator at >rightside forward of the engine, straight back to the >firewall, behind the engine to the left (pilot's side) of the >firewall, then into the cabin, then to the extreme right side of the >cockpit where it goes into a breaker about 3 inches from the right >side fuselage outer skin. The bottom of the breaker feeds the bus, >then at the end of the bus there is a a fat wire to the ammeter just >under the pilot's yoke, then back out the same hole through the >firewall, then down to the battery side of the starter contaactor. > >That seems like alot of wire. I have to keep the cb in the >cockpit. I wll use a stc va meter to replace the Cessna ammeter, >and will use a remote shunt, not allowed to rely only on a voltmeter. Interesting . . . the voltmeter is the much preferred indicator of electrical system performance . . . > >I am considering running the wire through the right side of the >firewall to the breaker, then back out of the breaker the same way >it came in, then over to the pilot side and tie into the starter >contactor lug. The bus would still run off of the breaker. > >1. Is there concern for the fat wires "cvoming and going" through >the same hole, should I twist them together, are there shielding issues? No, if you've not identified any wire proximity issues so far, there's little or no risk of keeping with the original design goals. > >2. Should the shunt be inside or outside the cabin? Does the shunt >create electrical interference? Where ever you like. Put it where it's easiest to access for installation. It's not a potential source of interference. > >3. If there is no downside to doing this I will do it for the >aesthetics and weight savings alone, since I am replacing the wiring anyway. That ought to work. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:12 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Tachometer Generator Wiring From: "Craig Winkelmann" Bob: Thanks for the info. Very helpful. I have misled you a bit though. The tach gen on the M-14P is a three phase generator. The waveform shaping circuit I have (between the tach gen and the engine monitoring system) was designed for a rotax engine (which is a different signal generator that the russian tach gen). The signal shaping circuit is wired between two phases of the output of the tach gen. The circuit accepts one lead to the grounded anode of a zener diode (breakdown voltage of 5.1) in parallel with a 50K resistor. The second lead connects to a 1K resistor that is in parallel with the above. The output of the above goes to a comparator with a reference voltage of 4.25 volts. I think my problem is having two ac signals going to a circuit that was designed for the output of the Rotax 912 tach signal generator. I need a max of a 5 volt signal for the engine monitor. My current thought is to see if you have a schematic for the circuit you described for using the p-lead and send this signal to the board above or, if the output can be kept to a 5 volt peak, then use your circuit as the feed for the tach signal. This would then eliminate the tach gen. Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263173#263173 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:35 PM PST US From: "Wade Roe" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wire Marker Label Printer I am seeing so many really nice looking wire markers on RV projects. What type handheld printer (Rhino, Kroy, etc.) is everyone using and particularly, what type media is giving good results for marking small gauge wires (shrink tube or wrap around)? Thanks! Wade Roe RV-7 in progress Aeronca Champ flying Tuscaloosa, AL -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bret Smith Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 6:25 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-13/8 electric components for RV firewall Lincoln, You are welcome to check my site. Look under "Wiring" and "FWF" Bret Smith RV-9A N16BL Blue Ridge, Ga www.FlightInnovations.com _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lincoln Keill Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 4:07 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-13/8 electric components for RV firewall Could an RV-driver with a Z-13/8 system post a link to any pictures/diagrams/descriptions they have of the location of the electrical system components (battery, contactors, grounding lugs, etc.) on their firewall as well as wire pass-throughs? I searched under the archive and found information on throttle/mixture cable location but nothing about where all the electric stuff goes. Van's suggestion won't work and I'm loathe to start drilling holes until I know for sure where everything is going to go and not interfere with something else down the road. Thanks. Lincoln Keill airlincoln@sbcglobal.net RV-7A fuselage Do Not Archive href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:59:33 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wire Marker Label Printer From: Wade, My poor man's version of whatever fancy rig the RV gang is using is to just use smaller fonts and stuff the label the long-way along the wire for a professional look. In MS Word and others you can set the text so it reads top to bottom which is normally how the wire is marked. Clear shrink wrap is naturally the best cover. If you want fancy, do them on a color laser printer. The hardest part is getting the computer and printer in your airplane so that you can print what you need when you need it J. If you print what you need at home, I'll guarantee you'll need something different once you get behind the panel. Ok, you know all that crap, so if you've got a few pennies to spend, brother makes one you really can fit in the cab. Our tech guys use one of these and they do a nice job. http://www.brother-usa.com/business/telco/cable-labels-wire-labels.aspx? &jkId=8a8ae4cc1da2ae17011dd7c68bff13f2&jt=1&jadid=2416139243&js=1 &jk=wir e%20label%20printer&jsid=10995&jmt=1&&gclid=COTv2KC_9JwCFcZM5QodXSN wsg Glenn From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wade Roe Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:57 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wire Marker Label Printer I am seeing so many really nice looking wire markers on RV projects. What type handheld printer (Rhino, Kroy, etc.) is everyone using and particularly, what type media is giving good results for marking small gauge wires (shrink tube or wrap around)? Thanks! Wade Roe RV-7 in progress Aeronca Champ flying Tuscaloosa, AL -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bret Smith Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 6:25 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-13/8 electric components for RV firewall Lincoln, You are welcome to check my site. Look under "Wiring" and "FWF" Bret Smith RV-9A N16BL Blue Ridge, Ga www.FlightInnovations.com ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lincoln Keill Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 4:07 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-13/8 electric components for RV firewall Could an RV-driver with a Z-13/8 system post a link to any pictures/diagrams/descriptions they have of the location of the electrical system components (battery, contactors, grounding lugs, etc.) on their firewall as well as wire pass-throughs? I searched under the archive and found information on throttle/mixture cable location but nothing about where all the electric stuff goes. Van's suggestion won't work and I'm loathe to start drilling holes until I know for sure where everything is going to go and not interfere with something else down the road. Thanks. Lincoln Keill airlincoln@sbcglobal.net RV-7A fuselage Do Not Archive href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www. m atronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web Site - Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:57 PM PST US From: "Wade Roe" Subject: AeroElectric-List: fuel flow transducer location Does anyone have a recommendation as to the location of a fuel flow transducer? I'm building an RV-7 and see two potential options for positioning this AFS transducer: * between the boost pump and the firewall, or * Between the injection servo and the distribution spider. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks! Wade Roe RV-7 in progress Aeronca Champ flying Tuscaloosa, AL ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:14 PM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: fuel flow transducer location Between boost pump and the firewall is the most perfect spot. Try to mainti an a straight section of pipe (10 pipe diameter's in front and 5 diameter's behind I believe). If you can't manage that it seems the unit can be calib rated pretty accurately anyway. I have known some builders put the flow pra nsducer on a 90 degree elbow and it still calibrates just fine. The cabin is cooler, less vibration (at least compared to the engine itself ) and these units almost never go wrong so burying it under the cover is en tirely satisfactory. Frank 7a 400 and something hours ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr ic-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wade Roe Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:07 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: fuel flow transducer location Does anyone have a recommendation as to the location of a fuel flow transdu cer? I'm building an RV-7 and see two potential options for positioning th is AFS transducer: * between the boost pump and the firewall, or * Between the injection servo and the distribution spider. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks! Wade Roe RV-7 in progress Aeronca Champ flying Tuscaloosa, AL ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:28 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: fuel flow transducer location From: Michael W Stewart VGhlIGxhdHRlciB3aWxsIGJlIG1vcmUgYWNjdXJhdGUuDQpUaGUgY2xvc2VyIHRvIHRoZSBpbmpl Y3RvcnMsIHRoZSBiZXR0ZXIuDQpGdXJ0aGVyIGF3YXkgd2lsbCBnaXZlIHlvdSBsZXNzIGFjY3Vy YXRlIHJlYWRpbmdzIHBhcnRpY3VsYXJseSB3aXRoL3dpdGhvdXQNCmJvb3N0IHB1bXAgb24uDQpT ZWVtcyBvZGQgSSBrbm93LiBGbG93IGlzIGZsb3cuIEJ1dCB0aGUgcHJlc3N1cmUgY2hhbmdlcyBh ZmZlY3QgcmVhZGluZ3MNCmV2ZW4gaWYgdGhlIGxpdHRsZSB0dXJiaW5lIHdoZWVsIGluIHRoZSB0 cmFuc2R1Y2VyIGlzIHN0aWxsIHNwaW5uaW5nIGF0IHRoZQ0Kc2FtZSBzcGVlZC4NCk1pa2UNCg0K DQoNCg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIA0KICBGcm9tOiAgICAgICAiV2FkZSBSb2UiIDx3cm9lMUBk YnRlY2gubmV0PiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg IA0KICBUbzogICAgICAgICA8YWVyb2VsZWN0cmljLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4gICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIA0KICBEYXRlOiAgICAgICAwOS8x NS8yMDA5IDA2OjA5IFBNICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIA0K ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIA0KICBTdWJqZWN0OiAgICBBZXJvRWxlY3RyaWMtTGlzdDogZnVlbCBm bG93IHRyYW5zZHVjZXIgbG9jYXRpb24gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIA0KICBT ZW50IGJ5OiAgICBvd25lci1hZXJvZWxlY3RyaWMtbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbSAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgIA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIA0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCkRvZXMgYW55b25lIGhh dmUgYSByZWNvbW1lbmRhdGlvbiBhcyB0byB0aGUgbG9jYXRpb24gb2YgYSBmdWVsIGZsb3cNCnRy YW5zZHVjZXI/ICBJ4oCZbSBidWlsZGluZyBhbiBSVi03IGFuZCBzZWUgdHdvIHBvdGVudGlhbCBv cHRpb25zIGZvcg0KcG9zaXRpb25pbmcgdGhpcyBBRlMgdHJhbnNkdWNlcjoNCiAgICAgIGJldHdl ZW4gdGhlIGJvb3N0IHB1bXAgYW5kIHRoZSBmaXJld2FsbCwgb3INCiAgICAgIEJldHdlZW4gdGhl IGluamVjdGlvbiBzZXJ2byBhbmQgdGhlIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGlvbiBzcGlkZXIuDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0K QW55IGNvbW1lbnRzIHdvdWxkIGJlIGFwcHJlY2lhdGVkLiAgVGhhbmtzIQ0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCldh ZGUgUm9lDQoNCg0KUlYtNyBpbiBwcm9ncmVzcw0KDQoNCkFlcm9uY2EgQ2hhbXAgZmx5aW5nDQoN Cg0KVHVzY2Fsb29zYSwgQUwNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgIC0gVGhlIEFl cm9FbGVjdHJpYy1MaXN0IEVtYWlsIEZvcnVtIC0NCl8tPSBVc2UgdGhlIE1hdHJvbmljcyBMaXN0 IEZlYXR1cmVzIE5hdmlnYXRvciB0byBicm93c2UNCl8tPSB0aGUgbWFueSBMaXN0IHV0aWxpdGll cyBzdWNoIGFzIExpc3QgVW4vU3Vic2NyaXB0aW9uLA0KXy09IEFyY2hpdmUgU2VhcmNoICYgRG93 bmxvYWQsIDctRGF5IEJyb3dzZSwgQ2hhdCwgRkFRLA0KXy09IFBob3Rvc2hhcmUsIGFuZCBtdWNo IG11Y2ggbW9yZToNCl8tPQ0KXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZp Z2F0b3I/QWVyb0VsZWN0cmljLUxpc3QNCl8tPQ0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCl8tPSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIC0g TUFUUk9OSUNTIFdFQiBGT1JVTVMgLQ0KXy09IFNhbWUgZ3JlYXQgY29udGVudCBhbHNvIGF2YWls YWJsZSB2aWEgdGhlIFdlYiBGb3J1bXMhDQpfLT0NCl8tPSAgIC0tPiBodHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1h dHJvbmljcy5jb20uDQpfLT0NCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgICAgLSBMaXN0IENvbnRyaWJ1 dGlvbiBXZWIgU2l0ZSAtDQpfLT0gIFRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3IgeW91ciBnZW5lcm91cyBzdXBwb3J0 IQ0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLU1hdHQgRHJhbGxlLCBMaXN0IEFk bWluLg0KXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9jb250cmlidXRpb24NCl8t PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09DQoNCg0K ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:21:11 PM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Marker Label Printer Good Evening Wade, Why don't you ask around and see if anyone in your chapter has a wire labeling machine? It is really nice to be able to mark every foot or so along the wire and not have the additional bulk of any shrink sleeve. For a big job, I borrow an ancient electric wire marker. For occasional jobs, I use a K-SUN Label Shop 2001xlst. It is several years old and I am sure the newer ones are faster and better in all ways, but printing right on the shrink wrap is the next best thing to using a real wire marker! Happy Skies, Old Bob LL22 N2858P In a message dated 9/15/2009 3:02:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time, wroe1@dbtech.net writes: I am seeing so many really nice looking wire markers on RV projects. What type handheld printer (Rhino, Kroy, etc.) is everyone using and particularly, what type media is giving good results for marking small gauge wires (shrink tube or wrap around)? Thanks! Wade Roe RV-7 in progress Aeronca Champ flying Tuscaloosa, AL -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bret Smith Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 6:25 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-13/8 electric components for RV firewall Lincoln, You are welcome to check my site. Look under "Wiring" and "FWF" Bret Smith RV-9A N16BL Blue Ridge, Ga _www.FlightInnovations.com_ (http://www.flightinnovations.com/) ____________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lincoln Keill Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 4:07 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-13/8 electric components for RV firewall Could an RV-driver with a Z-13/8 system post a link to any pictures/diagrams/descriptions they have of the location of the electrical system components (battery, contactors, grounding lugs, etc.) on their firewall as well as wire pass-throughs? I searched under the archive and found information on throttle/mixture cable location but nothing about where all the electric stuff goes. Van's suggestion won't work and I'm loathe to start drilling holes until I know for sure where everything is going to go and not interfere with something else down the road. Thanks. Lincoln Keill airlincoln@sbcglobal.net RV-7A fuselage Do Not Archive href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum - --> _http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List) - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> _http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/) - List Contribution Web Site - Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. --> _http://www.matronics.com/contribution_ (http ://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:14 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wire Marker Label Printer At 03:54 PM 9/15/2009, you wrote: >Wade, > >My poor man's version of whatever fancy rig the RV gang is using is >to just use smaller fonts and stuff the label the long-way along >the wire for a professional look. In MS Word and others you can set >the text so it reads top to bottom which is normally how the wire is >marked. Clear shrink wrap is naturally the best cover. If you want >fancy, do them on a color laser printer. The hardest part is getting >the computer and printer in your airplane so that you can print what >you need when you need it J. If you print what you need at home, >I'll guarantee you'll need something different once you get behind the panel. > >Ok, you know all that crap, so if you've got a few pennies to spend, >brother makes one you really can fit in the cab. Our tech guys use >one of these and they do a nice job. Understand that many of the nifty hand-held printers use thermal ink technology. Labels from these printers will turn black under the cowl and darken with age in the rest of the airplane. I use full sheets of Avery label material and pre-print columns of 8pt or larger numbers onto full sheets of label in a laser printer. Peel entire sheet off the backing and stick down on a poly-e cutting board. Use X-acto knife to cut out labels as needed in the shop. See: http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/Wire_Marking.jpg Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:58 PM PST US From: "Bob McCallum" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wagging HDI lamps Interesting Dan, that seems to support Eric, and yet LoPresti says their 5000 hour warranty is not affected. Go figure. Each to his own, I guess, and so the differing opinions each survive. Eric's arguments make sense, yet two manufacturers actually producing the product can't agree with each other. Bob McC > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Brown > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 8:10 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wagging HDI lamps > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Bob McCallum wrote: > > > LoPresti Speed Merchants market their "Boom Beam" lights as HID technology. > > They claim that this product http://loprestiaviation.com/PowerPulse.htm can > > be used in conjunction with them without damaging the HID system, and is in > > XeVision also has a pulsing system for their HID lights. It apparently > does shorten the lamp life, as their warranty is reduced from 5000 hours > without the pulsing to 3000 hours with it. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:02 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: P-lead as a source for a tachometer From: "Craig Winkelmann" > Just curious, how will you check for rpm drop between mags if the tach goes dead when one p lead is grounded? > > Rick Girard Rick: Would basically digitize both p-lead signals and logical OR them together. This way when left p-lead is grounded, the right p-lead would pass and vice versa. Both signals should be in phase with one another so when both are on, a signal passes. This also opens up the possibility of adding a panel light to let you know if one mag fails in flight. Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263246#263246 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:48 PM PST US From: Jason Beaver Subject: AeroElectric-List: d-sub connectors and current carrying capacity Are there quality differences between different brands of d-sub connectors that I should worry about? I purchased a couple of d-sub 9 pin solder cup connectors made by Pan Pacific at a local electronics supplier: http://www.jasonbeaver.com/rv7/rv7pictures/Scaled/20090915/CIMG0524.JPG Would these be acceptable or would any of you recommend a certain brand and supplier? Also, what is the rated current capacity per pin? I'm considering using these to hook up a Dynon RV-7 autopilot servo (to make disconnection easy if I ever need to). Is this acceptable or would any of you recommend another way to hook the servo up? thanks, jason ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:52 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: test test Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:46 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: d-sub connectors and current carrying capacity At 11:26 PM 9/15/2009, you wrote: >Are there quality differences between different brands of d-sub >connectors that I should worry about? I purchased a couple of d-sub >9 pin solder cup connectors made by Pan Pacific at a local >electronics supplier: > >http://www.jasonbeaver.com/rv7/rv7pictures/Scaled/20090915/CIMG0524.JPG > >Would these be acceptable or would any of you recommend a certain >brand and supplier? Solder cup and b-crimp connectors come in a huge variety of qualities. This is why I like to use the machined d-sub pins . . . ALWAYS good electrical connection. They also pretty much fit the whole range of removable pin d-subs. >Also, what is the rated current capacity per pin? I'm considering >using these to hook up a Dynon RV-7 autopilot servo (to make >disconnection easy if I ever need to). Is this acceptable or would >any of you recommend another way to hook the servo up? The d-sub with machined pins is my preferred connector. 20AWG wire in any one pin is good for 7A or so. I like to keep it below 5A for a few wires, and 3A average for a connector full of wires. It's almost a certainty that the machined pin d-sub will work just fine for the application you proposed. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) --------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.