Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:40 AM - Re: Bus Voltage (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 09:44 AM - Re: KX-125 Installation Manual? (Overtorque)
3. 09:49 AM - Bus Voltage (Charles Brame)
4. 10:06 AM - Re: Re: KX-125 Installation Manual? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 11:24 AM - Cleveland Wheels and Brakes (Harley)
6. 11:43 AM - Re: KX-125 Installation Manual? (Overtorque)
7. 11:46 AM - Re: KX-125 Installation Manual? (Overtorque)
8. 05:34 PM - Smart Start wire size (rvg8tor)
9. 06:05 PM - Z12 and IR Main Alt (rvg8tor)
10. 06:20 PM - Re: Bus Voltage (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 06:21 PM - Re: Re: KX-125 Installation Manual? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 06:24 PM - Re: Smart Start wire size (Bob-tcw)
13. 06:25 PM - Re: Z12 and IR Main Alt (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 08:46 PM - Re: Bus Voltage (Joe)
15. 09:56 PM - Not aviation related... Electronic though. :) (Jeffery J. Morgan)
16. 11:16 PM - Re: Not aviation related... Electronic though. :) (Jeffery J. Morgan)
Message 1
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At 07:49 PM 9/17/2009, you wrote:
>
>Thanks but the question is are the PP regulators linear or switchers?
If they're internal, then they are duty-cycle switched.
External can be either but linears are very rare. Probably
less than 5% of the total market. As it turns out, all
the excitement we had about 20 years ago for noise
reduction by "going linear" was not well founded in
physics. There's no reason for switchers . . . especially
those that are built in . . . to be significant noise
sources.
Moral: don't shy away from switchers 'cause they're
"quieter" . . .
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: KX-125 Installation Manual? |
Hi everybody.
First post on Matronics forum :D
I'm working on complete restoration of a long-EZ. The next step is the the wiring...
I was unable to find the wiring diagram of the bendix King KX125. I will
be very happy with the complete installation manual.
Many thanks for your help.
Overtorque
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263704#263704
Message 3
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With reference to the bus voltage discussion below:
I have a B&C 55 amp alternator with a generic Ford regulator. The Ford
regulator is bench adjustable and I had it set to 14.2 volts. My
voltage sensing set up measures system voltage from the endurance bus
and, under normal conditions, reads a steady 13.7 volts. Under normal
(main bus) operation, the endurance bus gets its power via the main
bus through a diode resulting in a measurable voltage drop. Switching
to the endurance bus, power is provided directly to the endurance bus
from the battery contactor and the voltage then reads a steady 14.2
volts. I can detect no change in avionics and instruments performance
regardless of the bus used.
In the situation cited below, system voltage may read low depending on
where in the system the voltage is measured.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Anton
--------------------------------------------------------
Time: 09:06:32 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bus Voltage
At 10:27 AM 9/17/2009, you wrote:
> In the comment below, Bob said that the bus (main?) should display
> 14+ volts. Mine displays 13.5 with the engine running, 60A Plane
> Power alternator on, and normal electrical loads of about 22-24
> Amps. Initial Amp spike is up to 45 just after start as battery
> recharges, but volts average 13.5 with occasional spike to 13.7.
> Should the PP alternator be putting out more?
Yes . . . and it MAY be . . .
> Is it adjustable?
I don't think so. Plane Power starts with
a suitable IR alternator core and simply
modifies it to bring the field supply lead
to the outside world so that OV protection
and pilot operated switches have ABSOLUTE,
LOW-ENERGY control over alternator operations.
Internal regulators for alternators are
modern integrated circuits. Its EASY to trim
their regulation set-points for the design
goal value during manufacture. 14.2 to 14.6
volts has been the benchmark window for
as long as I can remember. I'm not aware
of any example of user adjustable, internal
regulators.
Let's eliminate potential sources of uncertainty.
First, make sure that the voltmeter you're
citing agrees with other voltmeters to within
0.1 volts. Check it against a Fluke instrument
if you can. Know too that the regulator senses
voltage at the b-lead terminal . . . so it's
possible that system loads combined with system
wiring resistance between b-lead and your voltmeter's
sense point may be accounting for your observation.
GROUND systems can contribute to a voltage drop
too.
Do a voltage measurement right at the b-lead
terminal reference to the alternator's case
ground. The alternator may be performing as
advertised with the voltage being tossed off
in installation errors.
Check with Plane Power. Ask them what their
design-goal set-point value is. Just because
I've never seen a 13.8v regulator doesn't mean
they don't exist.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: KX-125 Installation Manual? |
At 11:42 AM 9/18/2009, you wrote:
>
>Hi everybody.
>
>First post on Matronics forum :D
>I'm working on complete restoration of a long-EZ. The next step is
>the the wiring... I was unable to find the wiring diagram of the
>bendix King KX125. I will be very happy with the complete installation manual.
The only thing I have in my library is the pinout
guide. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/KX125a.pdf
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 5
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| Subject: | Cleveland Wheels and Brakes |
After listening to the praise for replacing the original Cleveland
brakes with the Grove system for my Long EZ, I'm getting close to really
needing them so finally decided to replace the Clevelands that I have.
I now have some nice, shiny new Groves sitting here right now. They'll
probably help a lot on the 3200 foot runway at Canandaigua when I get
around to flying my Long EZ.
So, I removed the Clevelands (that I've never used except as a stand for
the Long EZ while I walked it around the hangar and my garage) and am
selling the nearly new, never flown and never used over walking speed,
Cleveland wheels and brakes.
I wanted to offer it to the forums and groups I belong to first, before
I put them on Barnstormers...and/or eBay...so I've put the pictures and
all the information about them on my website:
www.agelesswings.com/ClevelandWheelsAndBrakes.htm
Have a look, and if you would like them, or know someone who does, send
me an email...the web page and the pictures there should answer any
question you may have.
Harley Dixon
Long EZ N28EZ (painting the belly of the fuselage)
Hangar 29, Airport
Canandaigua, NY
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: KX-125 Installation Manual? |
Thank you Bob, it is a first help, but not enough regarding my poor level in electricity.
:D
If someone has this doc... please, do not hesitate!
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263716#263716
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: KX-125 Installation Manual? |
Hi again, just received the documentation...
Thank you all for your help!
OT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263717#263717
Message 8
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| Subject: | Smart Start wire size |
I bought the Smart Start module from TCW and was just getting around to looking
at the wire diagram and harness. All of the Aeroelectric diagrams show a 7 amp
protected 20 AWG wire going to the start switch then on to the post on the
start relay.
The Smart Start module gets power from the main buss via 2 amp breaker or fuse and the wires in the entire harness are only 22 AWG. (http://tcwtech.com/Smartstart.htm) Wire diagram is at the link.
So two wires connect to the start switch and go into the module and one wire goes
to the small terminal on the start relay. Is the 22 AWG wire and 2 amp breaker
too small. I can't see what determines wire size for this application.
Since only 2 amps can flow into the module then the 22 AWG wire to the start
relay is protected but what complication might there be with this setup. I guess
I need to go back and read "the book" for the ump-teenth time! Thanks for
any help.
--------
Mike "Nemo" Elliott
RV-8A QB (Fuselage)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263752#263752
Message 9
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| Subject: | Z12 and IR Main Alt |
Without getting into the debate of IR vs Ext regulation, can a IR alternator be
used in the Z12 system? Will the EXT regulator for the SD20 play nice with the
IR of the main Alt? I have a buddy who has flown his RV8 for years, he is
a EE major and loves the IR alternators. I respect his opinion and for cost sake
I want to use the IR alternator, but I am designing my system with the Z12
diagram. My concern is will the SD20 regulator function properly with this,
my guess is it will since it is just looking at the buss voltage to tell itself
to start putting out power. Thanks for any help.
--------
Mike "Nemo" Elliott
RV-8A QB (Fuselage)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263757#263757
Message 10
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At 11:36 AM 9/18/2009, you wrote:
>With reference to the bus voltage discussion below:
>
>I have a B&C 55 amp alternator with a generic Ford regulator. The
>Ford regulator is bench adjustable and I had it set to 14.2 volts.
>My voltage sensing set up measures system voltage from the endurance
>bus and, under normal conditions, reads a steady 13.7 volts. Under
>normal (main bus) operation, the endurance bus gets its power via
>the main bus through a diode resulting in a measurable voltage drop.
>Switching to the endurance bus, power is provided directly to the
>endurance bus from the battery contactor and the voltage then reads
>a steady 14.2 volts. I can detect no change in avionics and
>instruments performance regardless of the bus used.
Those readings are "as expected" and conform to design
goals.
>In the situation cited below, system voltage may read low depending
>on where in the system the voltage is measured.
Agreed.
Once the energy leaves the alternator, the ONLY thing
that can contribute to voltage drops is wire sizing
versus loads on those wires . . . and (to a lesser extent)
resistances that pile up in the sum-total of pressure
joints. If the battery is measuring 14.2 to 14.6 then
the alternator is doing it's job and the battery gets
100% topped off. Wire between the alternator and battery
is always "fat" wires. After that, any unacceptable losses
in available voltage MUST be from errors of design or
installation.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: KX-125 Installation Manual? |
At 01:44 PM 9/18/2009, you wrote:
>
>Hi again, just received the documentation...
>
>Thank you all for your help!
What format? If it's a scanned .pdf file, I'd
like to have a copy to add to the website library.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Smart Start wire size |
The main current carrying wires for the smartstart module are the power
input and the output to the contactor. The other wires to the start switch
and interlock switch (if used) are signal level only. The start contactor
will require a peak current of about 3.5 amps, this presents no issue for
22 awg wire as the voltage drop over 10-15 feet of wire at this current
level is negligible. Since the start contactor operation is such a short
duration and is not a continuous duty load the fusing may be reduced below
that of the continuous rating. The SmartStart module itself can handle
contactor currents of up to 10 amps peak. You may certainly raise the
fuse rating if you wish to 5 amps without bumping into any issues as
permitted by 43.13. However, we have found a 2 amp fuse is sufficient.
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies, LLC.
www.tcwtech.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "rvg8tor" <rvg8tor@comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 8:32 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Smart Start wire size
>
> I bought the Smart Start module from TCW and was just getting around to
> looking at the wire diagram and harness. All of the Aeroelectric diagrams
> show a 7 amp protected 20 AWG wire going to the start switch then on to
> the post on the start relay.
>
> The Smart Start module gets power from the main buss via 2 amp breaker or
> fuse and the wires in the entire harness are only 22 AWG.
> (http://tcwtech.com/Smartstart.htm) Wire diagram is at the link.
>
> So two wires connect to the start switch and go into the module and one
> wire goes to the small terminal on the start relay. Is the 22 AWG wire
> and 2 amp breaker too small. I can't see what determines wire size for
> this application. Since only 2 amps can flow into the module then the 22
> AWG wire to the start relay is protected but what complication might there
> be with this setup. I guess I need to go back and read "the book" for the
> ump-teenth time! Thanks for any help.
>
> --------
> Mike "Nemo" Elliott
> RV-8A QB (Fuselage)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263752#263752
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Z12 and IR Main Alt |
At 08:04 PM 9/18/2009, you wrote:
>
>Without getting into the debate of IR vs Ext regulation, can a IR
>alternator be used in the Z12 system?
Sure . . .
> Will the EXT regulator for the SD20 play nice with the IR of the main Alt?
They never have to play together. One works or the
other works. Not both.
> I have a buddy who has flown his RV8 for years, he is a EE major
> and loves the IR alternators. I respect his opinion and for cost
> sake I want to use the IR alternator, but I am designing my system
> with the Z12 diagram. My concern is will the SD20 regulator
> function properly with this, my guess is it will since it is just
> looking at the buss voltage to tell itself to start putting out power.
You are correct. But consider too that IF the
reason your main alternator is down is
due to an OV condition and there's no
automatic and effective means for taking
it off line . . . having a standby alternator
may be a moot point.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 14
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Stan,
A good test is to compare the bus voltage with light loads to the bus
voltage with heavy loads. If there is a big difference, then there is a
lot of resistance in the circuit, possibly from too small wire or from
bad connections.
Joe
Message 15
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| Subject: | Not aviation related... Electronic though. :) |
Bob,
I am looking for some direction on how to build a battery pack that will
help power my video camera longer. I am certain that I can find what I
need but looking for some direction or guidance to get it right.
I have a camcorder that uses a power pack that converts from wall outlet
to a 9.6 volt 0.8a output. The symbol has a solid line on top and three
dots on the bottom which I assume to me DC voltage.
Currently the battery in the camera will last about 60-75 minutes and I
would like to try to double that capacity. I was thinking that I should
be able to pull together a battery holder of 4 D cell batteries and
reduce the voltage and amperage to get what I would need. I am not
correct in that thinking?
Currently the camera has a lithium Ion battery that holds that charge.
I appreciate any direction you can give.
Thanks
Jeff
Message 16
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| Subject: | RE: Not aviation related... Electronic though. :) |
My apologies to the list. I didn't send that correctly...
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffery J. Morgan
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 11:53 PM
Subject: Not aviation related... Electronic though. :)
Bob,
I am looking for some direction on how to build a battery pack that will
help power my video camera longer. I am certain that I can find what I
need but looking for some direction or guidance to get it right.
I have a camcorder that uses a power pack that converts from wall outlet
to a 9.6 volt 0.8a output. The symbol has a solid line on top and three
dots on the bottom which I assume to me DC voltage.
Currently the battery in the camera will last about 60-75 minutes and I
would like to try to double that capacity. I was thinking that I should
be able to pull together a battery holder of 4 D cell batteries and
reduce the voltage and amperage to get what I would need. I am not
correct in that thinking?
Currently the camera has a lithium Ion battery that holds that charge.
I appreciate any direction you can give.
Thanks
Jeff
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