---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 09/19/09: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:36 AM - Re: Re: KX-125 Installation Manual? (Guillaume BONNAUD) 2. 04:31 AM - Re: Re: Not aviation related... Electronic though. :) (Richard Girard) 3. 05:28 AM - Re: Smart Start wire size (rvg8tor) 4. 06:33 AM - Re: Smart Start wire size (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 07:18 AM - Re: Re: Not aviation related... Electronic though. :) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 11:30 AM - Re: Not aviation related... Electronic though. :) (edleg) 7. 11:50 AM - Re: Bus Voltage (Speedy11@aol.com) 8. 11:52 AM - Re: Re: Not aviation related... Electronic though. :) (Charlie England) 9. 11:52 AM - strobe lights (Deems Herring) 10. 03:07 PM - Alternator mod article (Sam Hoskins) 11. 04:57 PM - Alkaline vs. Lithium (S. Ramirez) 12. 05:52 PM - Re: Z12 and IR Main Alt (Richard Sipp) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:36:56 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: KX-125 Installation Manual? From: Guillaume BONNAUD Hi Bob Please, find attached the manual installation for KX125 (pdf ) Your site is very helpful! Thank you very much! Guillaume 2009/9/19 Robert L. Nuckolls, III > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 01:44 PM 9/18/2009, you wrote: > >> >> Hi again, just received the documentation... >> >> Thank you all for your help! >> > > What format? If it's a scanned .pdf file, I'd > like to have a copy to add to the website library. > > > Bob . . . > > --------------------------------------- > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > --------------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:31:01 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Not aviation related... Electronic though. :) From: Richard Girard Jeff, 4 D cells is 4.8 volts long term, you'll need twice that many to get 9.6. Why not go to one of the battery suppliers and see if there is a larger capacity unit that fits your camera and gives the use time you want. $time$ thing and no worries about charging, connecting, weight, etc. Rick Girard On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 1:08 AM, Jeffery J. Morgan < jmorgan@compnetconcepts.com> wrote: > jmorgan@compnetconcepts.com> > > My apologies to the list. I didn't send that correctly... > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeffery J. Morgan > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 11:53 PM > To: 'aeroelectric-list@matronics.com' > Subject: Not aviation related... Electronic though. :) > > Bob, > > I am looking for some direction on how to build a battery pack that will > help power my video camera longer. I am certain that I can find what I > need but looking for some direction or guidance to get it right. > > I have a camcorder that uses a power pack that converts from wall outlet > to a 9.6 volt 0.8a output. The symbol has a solid line on top and three > dots on the bottom which I assume to me DC voltage. > > Currently the battery in the camera will last about 60-75 minutes and I > would like to try to double that capacity. I was thinking that I should > be able to pull together a battery holder of 4 D cell batteries and > reduce the voltage and amperage to get what I would need. I am not > correct in that thinking? > > Currently the camera has a lithium Ion battery that holds that charge. > > I appreciate any direction you can give. > > Thanks > Jeff > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:18 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Smart Start wire size From: "rvg8tor" Bob, Thanks for the explanation, I was going to email you over the weekend so you would have my message in you inbox on Monday, lucky for me you watch this forum. I was confused and could not figure out why the small wire would be OK as I stated AEC Z-diagrams all show 20 AWG with 7 amp protection. The Van's diagram calls out 18 AWG wire. I suppose they like the larger gage wire for its durability. -------- Mike "Nemo" Elliott RV-8A QB (Fuselage) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263804#263804 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:54 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Smart Start wire size At 07:32 PM 9/18/2009, you wrote: > >I bought the Smart Start module from TCW and was just getting around >to looking at the wire diagram and harness. All of the Aeroelectric >diagrams show a 7 amp protected 20 AWG wire going to the start >switch then on to the post on the start relay. > >The Smart Start module gets power from the main buss via 2 amp >breaker or fuse and the wires in the entire harness are only 22 AWG. >(http://tcwtech.com/Smartstart.htm) Wire diagram is at the link. > >So two wires connect to the start switch and go into the module and >one wire goes to the small terminal on the start relay. Is the 22 >AWG wire and 2 amp breaker too small. I can't see what determines >wire size for this application. Since only 2 amps can flow into >the module then the 22 AWG wire to the start relay is protected but >what complication might there be with this setup. I guess I need to >go back and read "the book" for the ump-teenth time! Thanks for any help. Wire per the manufacturer's instructions . . . but write to them and ask what to do about it if the starter contactor draws 5A. Most intermittent duty contactors require about that much. Their instructions seem to allude to a potential for damage to their product if the thing is used to control a modern, engagement/contactor solenoid like B&C, Skytec or similar automotive adaptations. The question to ask them is whether or not they can handle a 5A contactor and a system powered via 7A breaker/fuse through 20 AWG wire on pins 7 and 9. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:59 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Not aviation related... Electronic though. :) Jeff, Rick makes a good suggestion. But assuming that a more robust battery is not available, an external battery pack is an option. An array of 4 ni-cad cells comes across the starting line at about 1.25 volts per cell so an array of 8 would get you 10 volts. Alkaline cells start out a bit hotter at 1.5 volts per cell so you only need 7 cells to get 10.5 volts as a starting point. What the energy rating of your existing battery pak? The camera will be pretty tolerant of input voltage fed through it's external power jack. Unless the 'wall wart' power supply is internally REGULATED, then the 9.6v value is a nominal number and the camera will probably perform over a range of 8 to 12 volts or something like that. I used to run external 4-paks of d-alkalines on my Vivitar 283 flash guns. This gave me enough energy to do a 4-hour shoot without concerns for battery replacement. Further, the low impedance of the d-cells gave very fast recycle time on the flash gun, not unlike the recycle time I got with freshly charged ni-cads. The batty box hung off my belt and plugged into the flash-gun's external power jack through a coil-cord. For your application, you might consider an 8-pak of C-nicads like http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=SY123T-ND These offer 3,000 mAh of capacity. If you want more, there are some D-cells (harder to find) that will go up to 4,000 or more. These have solder tabs and will assemble into a pack that is MUCH more reliably connected than the spring-loaded battery boxes for individual cells. You could bring a lead-wire out at the center-tap. To charge this pack, a simple 120 vac line cord that feeds a series connection of 1N4007 diode and 7-15W light bulb will emulate a 40-100 mA constant current charter that takes awhile to recharge the cells but won't seriously over-charge them. Is this a portable application or running in a vehicle? You could craft a 9.6 v REGULATED adapter to run the camera from a vehicle's electrical system. Alternatively, you can go with a 7-pak of D-alkaline cells and throw them away when used up. This will offer MORE capacity than a rechargeable pak of the same size, somewhat less expensive to build. But after you've gone thorough 10-15 sets of alkaline cells, you've expended the cash for one set of ni-cads. Of course, you don't have the hassles of waiting for a ni-cad pack to recharge either. Your ultimate choice needs to fit design goals. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:30:57 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Not aviation related... Electronic though. :) From: "edleg" Instead of building, how about checking for bigger capacity batteries. I have used larger capacity batteries from eaglecool dot com for my JVC digital video recorders. They have worked well and the company has stood behind their warranties ok. On the other hand, I have built external battery packs for my camera flash equipment (Vivitar and Nikon) by using sealed gel cell off-the-shelf 6v batteries (4+ amphour)with custom built/modified (by me) power cables. But when you get into voltages like 7.2 or 9.6, etc. you could build external packs using "D" 1.2v rechargeable batteries in series as long as you can figure out a way to build/buy a power cable. -Ed- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263838#263838 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:50:04 AM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Bus Voltage Joe, Thanks for your comment. I have taken notice of the voltage during light and heaviest loads and it remains steady at 13.5. The light loading was about 3 Amps and heavy was about 32A (everything on). So, I'll take readings as Bob suggested and see what I find. Stan Stan, A good test is to compare the bus voltage with light loads to the bus voltage with heavy loads. If there is a big difference, then there is a lot of resistance in the circuit, possibly from too small wire or from bad connections. Joe ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:52:49 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Not aviation related... Electronic though. :) Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > Jeff, > > Rick makes a good suggestion. But assuming that a more robust battery > is not available, an external battery pack is an option. An array of > 4 ni-cad cells comes across the starting line at about 1.25 volts per > cell so an array of 8 would get you 10 volts. Alkaline cells start out > a bit hotter at 1.5 volts per cell so you only need 7 cells to get 10.5 > volts as a starting point. > > What the energy rating of your existing battery pak? > > The camera will be pretty tolerant of input voltage fed through it's > external power jack. Unless the 'wall wart' power supply is internally > REGULATED, then the 9.6v value is a nominal number and the camera will > probably perform over a range of 8 to 12 volts or something like that. > > I used to run external 4-paks of d-alkalines on my Vivitar 283 flash > guns. > This gave me enough energy to do a 4-hour shoot without concerns > for battery replacement. Further, the low impedance of the d-cells > gave very > fast recycle time on the flash gun, not unlike the recycle time I got > with freshly charged ni-cads. The batty box hung off my belt and plugged > into the flash-gun's external power jack through a coil-cord. > > For your application, you might consider an 8-pak of C-nicads like > > http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=SY123T-ND > > > These offer 3,000 mAh of capacity. If you want more, there are some > D-cells (harder to find) that will go up to 4,000 or more. > > These have solder tabs and will assemble into a pack that is MUCH > more reliably connected than the spring-loaded battery boxes for > individual cells. You could bring a lead-wire out at the center-tap. > To charge this pack, a simple 120 vac line cord that feeds a series > connection of 1N4007 diode and 7-15W light bulb will emulate a 40-100 mA > constant current charter that takes awhile to recharge the cells but > won't seriously over-charge them. > > Is this a portable application or running in a vehicle? You could > craft a 9.6 v REGULATED adapter to run the camera from a vehicle's > electrical system. > > Alternatively, you can go with a 7-pak of D-alkaline cells and > throw them away when used up. This will offer MORE capacity than > a rechargeable pak of the same size, somewhat less expensive to > build. But after you've gone thorough 10-15 sets of alkaline cells, > you've expended the cash for one set of ni-cads. Of course, you don't > have > the hassles of waiting for a ni-cad pack to recharge either. Your > ultimate choice needs to fit design goals. > > > Bob . . . I like finding similar products from higher volume (ie: lower cost) markets. http://www.batteryjunction.com/9-6-pk.html Used something similar in an old handheld radio to replace dead nicads & had to pack most of the case with cardboard/foam to stabilize the smaller batteries. Also had about twice the capacity. Charlie Charlie ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:52:55 AM PST US From: Deems Herring Subject: AeroElectric-List: strobe lights For anyone interested in this sort of thing=2C here is some information on test standards. http://physics.nist.gov/Divisions/Div844/facilities/photo/Flash/flash.html Deems Herring =0A _________________________________________________________________=0A Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that=92s right for you.=0A http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:07:39 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator mod article From: Sam Hoskins Hi - I just wanted to make sure you saw the DIY alternator article, from one of the Quickie guys - Lynn French. I don't know if Lynn is on this, or not. http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-09_howto_alternator.asp Sam ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:50 PM PST US From: "S. Ramirez" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alkaline vs. Lithium I was at my hangar taking alkaline batteries out of all of my battery powered tools. I had one Ray-O-Vac AA alkaline battery leaking, and I cleaned up the mess with baking soda. Most of the batteries were installed between 2002 and 2006 except for the digital torque wrench and digital airplane scale. Those batteries were relatively new. Some of these tools cost a lot of money, and I don't want to damage them. Therefore, I would like to get an opinion on whether I should migrate to lithium AA and 9V batteries. Is lithium technology safer than alkaline technology? I was at Home Depot today and saw two Duracell 9V lithium batteries in a pack for $7. That's $3.50 per battery, which brings it very close to the price of an alkaline battery. Even if it were X2 or X3, lithium batteries have a greater shelf life and higher energy density, so maybe they are cost effective at those greater prices. Has Bob or anyone else done a cost analysis on these two technologies to see how lithium stands against alkaline? I'd like to migrate to lithium just for its safety factor - if it doesn't leak or catch on fire in normal usage, but cost effectiveness would be a bonus. Simon Ramirez Copyright 2009 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:44 PM PST US From: "Richard Sipp" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z12 and IR Main Alt My system on an RV-10 is very close to what you describe; a Plane Power 60 amp main IR alternator and a B&C 20 amp standby with B&C external linear regulator. System is wired very close to Z-12 and is working fine. Dick Sipp -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rvg8tor Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 9:04 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z12 and IR Main Alt Without getting into the debate of IR vs Ext regulation, can a IR alternator be used in the Z12 system? Will the EXT regulator for the SD20 play nice with the IR of the main Alt? I have a buddy who has flown his RV8 for years, he is a EE major and loves the IR alternators. I respect his opinion and for cost sake I want to use the IR alternator, but I am designing my system with the Z12 diagram. My concern is will the SD20 regulator function properly with this, my guess is it will since it is just looking at the buss voltage to tell itself to start putting out power. Thanks for any help. -------- Mike "Nemo" Elliott RV-8A QB (Fuselage) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263757#263757 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.