Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:35 AM - Why have a switch on ALT Field? ()
2. 07:00 AM - Re: Welding cable (tomcostanza)
3. 07:27 AM - Re: Why have a switch on ALT Field? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 07:45 AM - Re: Re: Welding cable (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:45 AM - Re: Welding cable (Chris Stone)
6. 08:55 AM - Re: Why have a switch on ALT Field? (George, Neal E Capt USAF ACC 605 TES/DOA)
7. 09:58 AM - Re: Welding cable (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 10:15 AM - Re: Why have a switch on ALT Field? (Harley)
9. 11:12 AM - Re: Welding cable (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 11:29 AM - Re: Why have a switch on ALT Field? (rvg8tor)
11. 04:38 PM - Re: Welding cable (Chris)
12. 09:45 PM - Welding cable, cabbages and kings (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 09:52 PM - Re: Re: Why have a switch on ALT Field? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Why have a switch on ALT Field? |
9/28/2009
Hello Again Mike, You wrote: "I look forward to the simple answer if there
is one."
Let's try this -- How do you intend to simulate or check the continued
functioning of essential for flight avionics items when you are airborne and
have a non functioning alternator because: the field wire broke,** the belt
broke, or whatever?
Here is my answer: At the end of each flight while the engine is still
running I turn off the alternator by means of its field switch and ensure
that:
A) The essential for flight avionics items (Garmin 430W and transponder) can
still function off an essential bus. (These items needed to return to my
home field inside the Washington DC SFRA.)
B) My low voltage warning system (a flashing light) is still functioning.
Discussion:
1) Why not perform check A above at the beginning of each flight before the
engine is started and the alternator is not yet putting out current?
Because: a) I do not have my Garmin 430W and transponder turned on prior to
or during engine start, and b) I don't want to put the electrical burden of
the Garmin 430W and transponder on the battery before engine start.
2) Why not perform check B above at the beginning of each flight before the
engine is started and the alternator is not yet putting out current? That
check is indeed accomplished as soon as the master battery contactor is
closed at the beginning of the flight. The B check at the end of the flight
is a duplication of the before flight B check and is just a system design
fall out in order to perform check A.
3) Why not just use pulling the alternator field CB as a means of turning
off the alternator at the end of each flight? I have not priced the cost
differential between replacing my fancy, internally illuminated, rocker
activated, alternator field switch and the alternator field CB, but I do
know this: a) The switch is designed to be switched on and off thousands of
times, the CB is not, and b) It will be much easier for me to replace the
switch than the CB.
So please let me know what you decide regarding whether or not you will
install the alternator field switch and what were the deciding factors in
that decision. Thanks.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
**PS: This happened to a friend of mine in his Beech Sierra just a few
months ago. He has no low voltage warning system other than looking at an
aftermarket automotive gadget voltmeter plugged into his cigarette
lighter -- not very visible. His first real warning was when his VHF comm
began to not work properly because the battery was becoming depleted. Soon
he had no electronic nav functions either.
He was on an IFR flight plan, but in VMC. He spotted a little podunk airport
and landed. A mechanic at the airport quickly diagnosed the problem,
repaired the wire, and my friend was on his way shortly. But what if he has
been in IMC? What if he had not spotted podunk airport? What if there was no
repair person or facility at podunk airport?
Using your word "convenient" do you think that he would have had a
convenient termination of that flight?
====================================================
Time: 12:20:59 AM PST US
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Why have a switch on ALT Field?
From: "rvg8tor" <rvg8tor@comcast.net>
Bob,
I know you are trying to help but, this last post does not seem to help me,
it
actually confuses me. I respect your experience but I am not trying to
design
an electrical system from scratch, much like I did not design my RV-8A from
scratch. I picked a plane from a good designer (Van's). While building I
study
the plans and try to understand how the parts relate to be a better builder,
if I have a question I call builder assistance and I ask questions on the
forum.
When it came to the electrical system, I went with a design from an expert
in the
field, in studying the design I asked a simple question,
'why is the alternator field switch needed". There have been a lot of words
written,
much of which my little brain doesn'tunderstand how it relates to the very
simple question. The possible answers I was expecting were:
1. It has always been done that way
2. It doesn't matter the non-switch method will work but has these
limitations
(fill in the blanks)
3. You need the switch because if you don't have one it will cause XYZ.
Some of what you wrote I get but I really just need the simple short answer,
not
a run down on design philosophy. Since you designed the systems I thought
of
all people you could provide the best explanation. I thank you for
attempting
to answer my questions, if nothing else you have convinced me not to deviate
from the Z diagram. I can't say that I understand fully why the alternator
field switch is a requirement other than to provide a convenient way to turn
off
the field. I look forward to the simple answer if there is one.
--------
Mike "Nemo" Elliott
RV-8A QB (Fuselage)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Welding cable |
Here's another data point:
http://www.cableyard.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21&osCsid=0cc7974ccdf864c041a7cdd5357e601a
--------
Clear Skies,
Tom Costanza
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265302#265302
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Why have a switch on ALT Field? |
>
>When it came to the electrical system, I went with a design from an
>expert in the
>field, in studying the design I asked a simple question,
>'why is the alternator field switch needed". There have been a lot
>of words written,
>much of which my little brain doesn'tunderstand how it relates to the very
>simple question.
I'm sorry if my words are too much for you.
When I wear my teacher-hat, the answers
I offer are intended to lead to understanding of
the foundation upon which the answer is based.
It's my belief that once understanding is
achieved, the student then becomes a teacher
on the same discussion. Perhaps I presume too
much . . . that everyone here on the List is
as enthusiastic about understanding as I . . .
> The possible answers I was expecting were:
>
>1. It has always been done that way
Okay, with my expert-hat on, that answer works
for me.
Fly comfortably my friend . . .
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: Welding cable |
At 08:56 AM 9/28/2009, you wrote:
><Tom@CostanzaAndAssociates.com>
>
>Here's another data point:
>
>http://www.cableyard.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21&osCsid=0cc7974ccdf864c041a7cdd5357e601a
Another score from the 3-point line . . . thanks!
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 5
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McMaster-Carr supplies welding cable in two insulation types at a reasonable price...
http://www.mcmaster.com/#welding-cable/=3tsvkp
Chris Stone
RV-*
<snip>
>>Where can you find the anchor brand cable? Any weblinks/supply you
>>can point to.
>>Thanks
>>Chris
>>RV-10
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Why have a switch on ALT Field? |
I'm sorry if my words are too much for you.
When I wear my teacher-hat, the answers
I offer are intended to lead to understanding of
the foundation upon which the answer is based.
It's my belief that once understanding is
achieved, the student then becomes a teacher
on the same discussion. Perhaps I presume too
much . . . that everyone here on the List is
as enthusiastic about understanding as I . . .
Keep at it Bob -
I generally need to be told more than once.
As for the presentation style, I learn more than electron herding here.
Too many of us can barely speak, much less write...
neal
Message 7
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At 09:36 AM 9/28/2009, you wrote:
>
>McMaster-Carr supplies welding cable in two insulation types at a
>reasonable price...
>
>http://www.mcmaster.com/#welding-cable/=3tsvkp
Thanks! I should have thought about those guys.
I'm thinking about adding a page to the
website too link to the hot prospects . . .
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: Why have a switch on ALT Field? |
> I'm sorry if my words are too much for you.
> When I wear my teacher-hat, the answers
> I offer are intended to lead to understanding of
> the foundation upon which the answer is based.
> It's my belief that once understanding is
> achieved, the student then becomes a teacher
> on the same discussion. Perhaps I presume too
> much . . . that everyone here on the List is
> as enthusiastic about understanding as I . . .
Don't stop, Bob...that's the way I always try to explain things,
figuring that most people don't believe me or want to know the reason
why and need a more detailed explanation or an understanding for
themselves...that was from my working days as well, when I had to train
the mechanics after I had installed one of the new automated systems.
Of course they all usually fall asleep ...<G>
Harley
Message 9
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>
> I'm thinking about adding a page to the
> website too link to the hot prospects . . .
Broke down and did it. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/Sources.html
. . . as readers discover additional web
sources for other unique materials or tools
that belong on this list are encouraged to
let me know about them.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Why have a switch on ALT Field? |
Bob N.
Please to not take my request for a simpler answer the wrong way, I am enthusiastic
about learning, I was just not getting it. When I was asked about teaching
as in instructor pilot in the Air Force, I always said what made a good instructor
was being able to give the same information many different ways until
the student got it. We all learn different ways and at a different pace. My
email to you was meant to communicate that I was not getting it, please tell me
a different way. In radio jargon "I did not copy say again".
To everyone on this thread, my knowledge of how the alternator and regulator and
field work has increased ten fold and that is what my ultimate goal was, I never
want to stop learning.
I will put in the field switch after all is said and done for the following reasons
not in any particular priority.
1. CBs don't' make good switches
2. Convenience
3. There might be something I did not get and don't want to add a switch later
4. It had always been done that way [Laughing]
Thank you again to all who posted I hope I am not the only one who gained from
this thread.
--------
Mike "Nemo" Elliott
RV-8A QB (Fuselage)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265358#265358
Message 11
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Ditto on that Bob!! I always go to McMaster and just as quickly forget I
did.
-Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:54 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Welding cable
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 09:36 AM 9/28/2009, you wrote:
<rv8iator@earthlink.net>
>
>McMaster-Carr supplies welding cable in two insulation types at a
>reasonable price...
>
>http://www.mcmaster.com/#welding-cable/=3tsvkp
Thanks! I should have thought about those guys.
I'm thinking about adding a page to the
website too link to the hot prospects . . .
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 12
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| Subject: | Welding cable, cabbages and kings |
At 06:28 PM 9/28/2009, you wrote:
>
>Ditto on that Bob!! I always go to McMaster and just as quickly forget I
>did.
Just too many things for the ol' gray matter to keep
a grip on . . . but gee, McMaster-Carr? I used to
mail order from their 2+ inch thick mail order
catalog over 30 years ago. If they didn't have it
in that catalog you probably didn't need it!
I may be renewing an old acquaintance with
them. Out here in cow and buzzard country, everything
is 100 miles away . . . well not quite. We've got
one of those 10,000 sq ft Ace hardware stores
in Pratt that is VERY well stocked. They're only
30 miles away but with prices that are pretty
breathtaking. Would you believe $4.75 for a 2-foot
piece of valve stem packing? I need to find that
stash of bee's wax and graphite!
But if you gotta have it today, it's possible.
The stores here in M.L. are quite adequate to
routine needs and they too are willing to get stuff
in on "Wednesday's truck".
At the same time, I've got at least two dozen
projects on the to-do list at all times. If one needs
to pause while necessary goodies come in the mail,
or UPS there are always plenty of alternatives to keep
the moment productive.
It certainly changes the way you think about things.
Projects I was accustomed to finishing in a few hours after
spool-up might take several days here if I don't have
everything needed in 'inventory'.
In some ways I think it's a good thing. You get
to consider design goals and processes on a
wider horizon and more relaxed imperative. Folks
you work for are seldom upset if you have to order
in materials. It's a much more relaxed but no less
certain way of orchestrating one's priorities.
Overnight UPS out of Digikey works well to M.L. too
and at no greater expense than to Wichita
Total hands-on time for a project isn't much longer
but the challenge to craft expedient alternatives is
greater. Dad's shop was loaded with little jigs,
fixtures, mysterious bits and pieces that
had to have been the product of his expanded creative
horizons. I'm really enjoying the walk in his shoes.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Why have a switch on ALT Field? |
>
>To everyone on this thread, my knowledge of how the alternator and
>regulator and field work has increased ten fold and that is what my
>ultimate goal was, I never want to stop learning.
Great!
>I will put in the field switch after all is said and done for the
>following reasons not in any particular priority.
>
>1. CBs don't' make good switches
>2. Convenience
>3. There might be something I did not get and don't want to add a
>switch later
>4. It had always been done that way [Laughing]
All those things are true so even if the
explanations offered seem arcane, the
benefits for having the switch will be
secured.
>Thank you again to all who posted I hope I am not the only one who
>gained from this thread.
At last count, subscribers to this List numbered
over 1800. If you look at the posting stats on
Matronics, this list is one of the busiest on
Matt's service. I have to believe the goals
for sharing are being realized.
Thank you for participating.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
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