Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:36 AM - Re: Odyssey PC310 battery pairings (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 05:41 AM - The HF Inspection camera again (Harley)
3. 06:41 AM - Re: Inspection camera (glen matejcek)
4. 07:14 AM - Re: Inspection camera (Harley)
5. 07:53 AM - Re: Basic Electrical Architecture for review... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 08:25 AM - Re: Basic Electrical Architecture for review... (Marvin Haught)
7. 08:57 AM - Re: Watons's RV-10 power distribution (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 09:34 AM - Re: Odyssey PC310 battery pairings ()
9. 10:24 AM - Z-16 Alternator disconnect (Tucsonchris)
10. 10:44 AM - What is the type of this pin? (Overtorque)
11. 11:46 AM - Re: What is the type of this pin? (Ralph E. Capen)
12. 11:46 AM - Re: Re: Watons's RV-10 power distribution (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
13. 11:54 AM - Re: What is the type of this pin? (BobsV35B@aol.com)
14. 08:50 PM - Re: Basic Electrical Architecture for review... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 09:16 PM - Re: What is the type of this pin? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 10:23 PM - Re: Re: Watons's RV-10 power distribution (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 10:45 PM - Re: What is the type of this pin? (Overtorque)
18. 10:59 PM - Z-14 alternator wire guage?? (Bob Barrow)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Odyssey PC310 battery pairings |
At 12:44 AM 10/2/2009, you wrote:
>
>I am planning to use a small PC310 as a primary battery in a system
>designed for 1 battery in a VFR only Rotax powered aircraft. Is it
>possible to parallel a larger PC680 for occasions when I would want
>to extend my
>reserve capacity time? Or should I plan to only use a second PC310
>for such an application?
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Batteries/Multiple_Battery_Myths_A.pdf
It's okay to parallel batteries of two different sizes
and/or station in their service life.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 2
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Subject: | The HF Inspection camera again |
Once more, that little HF inspection camera has proved it's worth...
When I tried to turn the heat on in my car a few days ago, the heater
temperature couldn't be controlled. In fact, all I got was cold outside
air.
Googling online I found a couple of checks to determine the
reason...turns out it was a loose soldered connection on the temperature
control card...found it by using a programmed troubleshooting check I
found the instructions for online. Not mentioned in any Mazda
literature...including the shop manual! Hold in the radio "On" button,
and push the radio "Scan Up" button at the same time! It then displays
the temperature control setting in the radio display! Rotating the
control showed no change from 0. But I digress...
Had to remove the radio to get to that card, and in the process, lost
the radio's side mounting bolt down behind the dashboard, and behind the
center console and inside the edge of it's carpet. Where I could not get
my head to see it, let alone my hand to retrieve it...
After this weeks discussion, I immediately thought of the HF inspection
camera. It located the bolt within seconds, and then mounting the
magnet probe on the camera retrieved it as well!
Re-soldered the loose connections on the card (all three of them on the
temperature control potentiometer) and now the RX8 is toasty warm again!
Oh, and the programmed check displays 0 to 16 as I rotate the control!
Harley
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Inspection camera |
>The camera head as supplied is too big to fit into the spark plug
>hole...but just a touch too big.
On my unit, I found the body of the camera to just match the plug hole dia.
However, there was a raised arrow cast on the side of the side of the body
that caused interference. After a little judicial use of a single edged
razor the arrow is now flush, yet discernable, and the camera now fits into
the hole.
glen matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.ne
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Inspection camera |
When I checked it on my Lycoming O235, the camera did fit inside the
beginning of the spark plug hole, but the threads in the hole got in the
way from there on in...removing that little bit of plastic may have
helped, but I didn't do it figuring that I wouldn't be able to see
anything anyway since the camera would be pointing toward the crankcase
and not the valves and I wouldn't be able to bend the camera in the
short radius needed to look at the valves if it did get inside.
Maybe the smaller 9mm camera may be able to do that...
Harley
------------------------------------------------------------------------
glen matejcek wrote:
>
>
>
>> The camera head as supplied is too big to fit into the spark plug
>> hole...but just a touch too big.
>>
>
> On my unit, I found the body of the camera to just match the plug hole dia.
> However, there was a raised arrow cast on the side of the side of the body
> that caused interference. After a little judicial use of a single edged
> razor the arrow is now flush, yet discernable, and the camera now fits into
> the hole.
>
> glen matejcek
> aerobubba@earthlink.ne
>
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Basic Electrical Architecture for review... |
At 09:57 PM 9/30/2009, you wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>I've attached an electrical architecture (in Bob's drawing style)
>for your review. It's for the Longeze I'm restoring. I'm doing the
>restoration in multiple stages. Although it had ~1000 Hrs. on it
>when I obtained it, it's been grounded since I received it. The
>attached architecture is intended to be more robust and fault
>tolerant than what was there (which I'm sure it is...) and certainly
>not worse in that regard than a TC aircraft (though not as good as a
>design with an essential bus).
>
>Down the road a bit, I intend to replace the vacuum system and
>associated instruments with electric, plus a backup alternator and
>an architecture with an essential bus.
>
>I would appreciate comments on the architecture and, specifically,
>on any unmitigated faults (especially those that would not be
>acceptable in a TC aircraft).
>
>The aircraft is VFR only.
>
>Thanks in advance,
You appear to have a generic distribution system
and questions that go to departures from recommendations
offered in the Z-figures.
What was it about Z-11 as depicted at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z11M.pdf
or features depicted in other z-figures that
prompted the changes in direction?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Basic Electrical Architecture for review... |
Bob -
I'm a lurker on this site, but am in progress on a Pa22-20 project
(certified). How difficult would it be to use Z-11 in a certified
aircraft and get a 337 for that purpose? Has anyone done that
recently? Looks perfect for the project.
M. Haught
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 09:57 PM 9/30/2009, you wrote:
>> Greetings all,
>>
>> I've attached an electrical architecture (in Bob's drawing style) for
>> your review. It's for the Longeze I'm restoring. I'm doing the
>> restoration in multiple stages. Although it had ~1000 Hrs. on it
>> when I obtained it, it's been grounded since I received it. The
>> attached architecture is intended to be more robust and fault
>> tolerant than what was there (which I'm sure it is...) and certainly
>> not worse in that regard than a TC aircraft (though not as good as a
>> design with an essential bus).
>>
>> Down the road a bit, I intend to replace the vacuum system and
>> associated instruments with electric, plus a backup alternator and an
>> architecture with an essential bus.
>>
>> I would appreciate comments on the architecture and, specifically, on
>> any unmitigated faults (especially those that would not be acceptable
>> in a TC aircraft).
>>
>> The aircraft is VFR only.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>
> You appear to have a generic distribution system
> and questions that go to departures from recommendations
> offered in the Z-figures.
>
> What was it about Z-11 as depicted at:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z11M.pdf
>
> or features depicted in other z-figures that
> prompted the changes in direction?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ---------------------------------------
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ---------------------------------------
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Watons's RV-10 power distribution |
At 03:00 PM 10/1/2009, you wrote:
>Some confusion here perhaps. I'm not using Visio - rather I'm using
>the ExpressSCH product that Vern has linked to at his site. It does
>have a bitmap export function which I just tried and attached the results.
>Looks like that works ok.
You need fusible links upstream of your ov crowbar
breakers, NOT pluggable fuses in the fuse blocks.
You're missing a diode at the cross-feed contactor.
Where are your batteries mounted? 2AWG is too big
for forward mounted batteries. Suggest 4AWG.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 8
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Subject: | Odyssey PC310 battery pairings |
Do Not Archive
Great question Marv!
I am doing the opposite (big main - start this thing, small - back me up
because everyone says dual electronic ignitions on airplanes is the work
of the devil) and never asked the question (some assumptions on my
part). Hey, it's all 14 volt, so when the meter do-hicky-thing says 13.6
- ? it stops charging. It's all about reserves. Sort of like your gas
tank, when it's half empty, it's half empty no matter the size.
Thanks,
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey PC310 battery pairings
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 12:44 AM 10/2/2009, you wrote:
>
>I am planning to use a small PC310 as a primary battery in a system
>designed for 1 battery in a VFR only Rotax powered aircraft. Is it
>possible to parallel a larger PC680 for occasions when I would want
>to extend my
>reserve capacity time? Or should I plan to only use a second PC310
>for such an application?
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Batteries/Multiple_Battery_Myths_A.
pdf
It's okay to parallel batteries of two different sizes
and/or station in their service life.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 9
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Subject: | Z-16 Alternator disconnect |
I'm working off Z-16. Rev M. I have the Cessna type split master. For the sake
of argument, if I were to eliminate the Alternator OV disconnect relay, then would
I simply interrupt one of the yellow alt wires with my master in order to
take the Alternator off-line?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266085#266085
Message 10
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Subject: | What is the type of this pin? |
Hi All,
who will be able to tell me what is the type of this connector? I found it in a
switch coming from a military aircraft. In order to give a new life to the switch,
I need to buy some pins....but I know nothing about it.
Thank you for your help
Overtorque.
PS: On the first pic, it is millimeter....
(http://img42.imageshack.us/i/dsc00979fq.jpg/) (http://g.imageshack.us/img42/dsc00979fq.jpg/1/)
(http://img245.imageshack.us/i/p1010327g.jpg/) (http://g.imageshack.us/img245/p1010327g.jpg/1/)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266089#266089
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: What is the type of this pin? |
Wasn't able to get any of the images to load to see what you are referring to.
Tried going directly to the site too with no joy.
If it came from a military aircraft, there's a milspec for it and you should be
able to get replacements using the milspec number.....the trick then is determining
what the milspec is.....
-----Original Message-----
>From: Overtorque <lezbnd@gmail.com>
>Sent: Oct 2, 2009 1:42 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: What is the type of this pin?
>
>
>Hi All,
>
>who will be able to tell me what is the type of this connector? I found it in
a switch coming from a military aircraft. In order to give a new life to the switch,
I need to buy some pins....but I know nothing about it.
>
>Thank you for your help
>
>Overtorque.
>
>PS: On the first pic, it is millimeter....
>
> (http://img42.imageshack.us/i/dsc00979fq.jpg/) (http://g.imageshack.us/img42/dsc00979fq.jpg/1/)
>
> (http://img245.imageshack.us/i/p1010327g.jpg/) (http://g.imageshack.us/img245/p1010327g.jpg/1/)
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266089#266089
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Watons's RV-10 power distribution |
Bob, thanks for giving this a review. I've responded below:
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> You need fusible links upstream of your ov crowbar
> breakers, NOT pluggable fuses in the fuse blocks.
My thinking was the fuse is just protecting the wire to the pullable
breaker. The wire is 16AWG and the fuse a 15amp. Then the breaker is a
5amp. But I think what you are telling me is that the fuse could defeat
the whole purpose of having the pullable breaker. And that either a
fusible link is needed to protect the wire or a direct connection to the
buss. Is that correct?
>
> You're missing a diode at the cross-feed contactor.
Yes, drawing fixed.
>
> Where are your batteries mounted? 2AWG is too big
> for forward mounted batteries. Suggest 4AWG.
It's an RV10 with both batteries in the rear. So I used 2AWG for the
run to the starter and for the interbattery connections. The other
battery has a (previously unmarked) 8AWG wire for the other run to the
front.
My analysis suggested that the 8AWG is enough for the 20amp Alt side of
the circuit even in a crossfeed situation.
Thanks again
Bill "finishing up the panel wiring" Watson
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: What is the type of this pin? |
Good Afternoon Overtorque,
I thought I would have an answer for you.
It looks very much like the pins used by Beechcraft to feed the ground and
power to their wedge type internal instrument lights. They are on the ends
which plug into group receptacles on the back of the panel.
I have some somewhere, but can't find them or the Beech part number. Been
trying for the last hour or so.
The bad thing is that they cost about ten bucks apiece when purchased from
Beechcraft. If I find the ones I have or can locate the Beech Part Number,
I will post it here. Meanwhile, maybe this will jog someone else's memory.
'Lectric Bob, do you remember them during your time at Beech?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 10/2/2009 12:45:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
lezbnd@gmail.com writes:
http://img42.imageshack.us/i/dsc00979fq.jpg/)
(http://g.imageshack.us/img42/dsc00979fq.jpg/1/)
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Basic Electrical Architecture for review... |
At 10:17 AM 10/2/2009, you wrote:
><handainc@madisoncounty.net>
>
>Bob -
>
>I'm a lurker on this site, but am in progress on a Pa22-20 project
>(certified). How difficult would it be to use Z-11 in a certified
>aircraft and get a 337 for that purpose? Has anyone done that
>recently? Looks perfect for the project.
>M. Haught
I have often fantasized about taking a nice
ol' rag-wing piper and updating the electrical
system with something like Z-13/8, all
new lightweight hardware and an RG battery.
I'm aware of no projects flying where one
has successfully run the gauntlet for
permission to do a good thing to an ageing
aircraft. Several folks have proposed such
upgrades and have received tentative blessings
on things like the forest of tabs ground bus
and fuse blocks. But those systems have yet
to be completed and signed off for flight.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: What is the type of this pin? |
At 12:42 PM 10/2/2009, you wrote:
>
>Hi All,
>
>who will be able to tell me what is the type of this connector? I
>found it in a switch coming from a military aircraft. In order to
>give a new life to the switch, I need to buy some pins....but I know
>nothing about it.
>
>Thank you for your help
A number of high-end manufacturers of switches
(and relays, etc) are offering very robust,
environmentally sealed devices that are
electrically terminated IWTS (integrated wire
termination system) by means of built-in sockets
having female pins.
The idea is not new. Patent 3717838 was issued
in 1973 on this topic. There are no doubt earlier
documents.
An exemplar product line is illustrated starting
on page A27 of
http://tinyurl.com/ya22ub8
I did a search of IWTS in this pdf file and found
a couple of switch lines offering that feature.
I believe there are probably few sizes and styles
of pins used across these product lines . . . but
pins, extraction tools and installation tools are
unique to the pins. I've not personally put my
hands on any of these but we used a goodly number
at Hawker-Beech.
I didn't see any references to mating pin numbers
in the EATON catalog. I did see a reference to M39029/1-101
pins for 20AWG wire for THAT particular part. You'll
need to check your existing pins against the dimensions
of similar pins (OR) get the part number of your
switch and see what its catalog listing calls out
for the mating pin.
These wont be easy to find in small quantities but
if you identify a part number, you can try
Aircraft and Commercial Enterprises in Derby
KS. They might have and be willing to supply you
a small quantity of pins.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Watons's RV-10 power distribution |
>My thinking was the fuse is just protecting the wire to the pullable
>breaker. The wire is 16AWG and the fuse a 15amp. Then the breaker
>is a 5amp. But I think what you are telling me is that the fuse
>could defeat the whole purpose of having the pullable breaker. And
>that either a fusible link is needed to protect the wire or a direct
>connection to the buss. Is that correct?
Fuses are so much faster than breakers that
you may pop a 15A fuse trying to open a 5A
breaker. There's a reason for the fusible
link depicted in the Z-figures.
>It's an RV10 with both batteries in the rear. So I used 2AWG for
>the run to the starter and for the interbattery connections. The
>other battery has a (previously unmarked) 8AWG wire for the other
>run to the front.
>My analysis suggested that the 8AWG is enough for the 20amp Alt side
>of the circuit even in a crossfeed situation.
Do you intend to load the aux battery for cranking?
If batteries are in the rear, then contactors are
in the rear and crossfeed contactor is on firewall
to give you a fat-terminal, power distribution point
at the cross-feed contactor.
Use 4AWG welding cable off each battery terminal
to contactors and ground. 2AWG for run forward to
the starter contactor.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: What is the type of this pin? |
Hi all,
Thank you very much for these input.... I made myself the extraction tool. I have
to leave for the WE. Monday, I will take accurate size of the connector and
the brand (if I can find it) of the switch.
I wish a nice nice WE to all
Overtorque
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266215#266215
Message 18
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Subject: | Z-14 alternator wire guage?? |
I have the latest revision of Z14 (REV N 7/14/09) which shows that the Main
Alternator (40 amp) has a 4 AWG B-lead. BUT the Aux Alternator (also 40 am
p) has a 10 AWG B-lead.
Is there any possible logic in this discrepancy.
My calculations indicate that for a standard Lycoming set-up with main alte
rnator at the front of the engine and the aux alternator on the rear of the
engine 10 AWG should be more than enough for the B-leads for both=2C provi
ding the battery is FWF.
Am I missing something here.
=0A
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