---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/06/09: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:10 AM - high temp. tie wraps. () 2. 05:36 AM - Re: Battery capacity testing (Kelly McMullen) 3. 06:26 AM - Re: high temp. tie wraps. (Steve Thomas) 4. 06:26 AM - Re: Battery capacity testing (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS) 5. 06:26 AM - Re: Battery capacity testing (Dan Brown) 6. 06:45 AM - Re: high temp. tie wraps. (Steve Stearns) 7. 06:53 AM - Re: Basic Electrical Architecture for review... (Steve Stearns) 8. 09:33 AM - Question about (2-10) master switch (user9253) 9. 09:51 AM - Crazy Transducer readings (Jerry2DT@aol.com) 10. 10:31 AM - Re: Crazy Transducer readings (David M) 11. 01:21 PM - Re: Crazy Transducer readings (Perry, Phil) 12. 04:34 PM - Re: Appendix Z (gordonrsmith921@yahoo.com) 13. 05:22 PM - Re: 24V Heated Pitot (Joe Dubner) 14. 07:14 PM - Re: Re: 24V Heated Pitot (Lynn Riggs) 15. 07:37 PM - How is this battery lug crimp (rvg8tor) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:10:57 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: high temp. tie wraps. 10/6/2009 Hello Tom, Note that the PEEK ty wraps are rated to + 500 degrees F and the Tefzel ty wraps are rated to + 302 deg F. Also note how horrendously expensive the PEEK tys are compared to the Tefzel tys. http://www.mcmaster.com/#harsh-environment-wire-ties/=3xvkp5 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." ================================================= Time: 02:17:53 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: high temp. tie wraps. From: thomas sargent I understand that there are high temperature tolerant tie wraps that can be used under the cowling. Can some one tell me where to get these things? Thanks, -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A, final assembly ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:04 AM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery capacity testing Caution.........Unless it is a very early M20F, the gear and possibly the flaps are electrically operated. I would not recommend running the battery low enough to force lowering the gear by the emergency extension. Seems like this would be an issue for all retractables that use electric power for gear operation. Or are you suggesting staying airborne while you reactivate the alternator field and giving it some time to recharge the battery? Seems like that would abuse the battery with high charging rates. Perhaps testing by monitoring voltage and time, 30 min. with a conservative volts cutoff(12.0?), whichever comes first might be safer, at least for a first try. Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >> I fly a Mooney M20F which has a Concorde RG battery installed >> (RG-35AXC). Concorde (as well as Bob, of course) recommend periodic >> capacity testing--after 2 years, and every year thereafter. > Yeah . . . lots of overkill if YOUR are interested > in endurance AS INSTALLED in YOUR airplane with YOUR > choice of equipment items operational. > How about this? YOU decide what your > alternator-out endurance target is. Wouldn't > you feel better about 1 hour? How about two > hours? Next make up a list of electro-whizzies > you plan to leave ON (and those you can't turn > off) after the LV warning light comes on. > > During some CAVU cross country, deliberately > put your airplane into a failed alternator > condition and start your stop-watch. 11 volts > is a better battery depleted target. See: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/28AH_12V_Capacity_vs_Load.gif > > Note that by the time a 12 lead-acid battery > drops to 11.0 volts, the curve is VERY steep > and 10.0 volts is not far behind. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:06 AM PST US From: Steve Thomas Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: high temp. tie wraps. Stein Air is another good source: http://www.steinair.com/cableties.htm Steve Thomas ________________________________________________________________________ On Oct 5, 2009, at 2:15 PM, thomas sargent wrote: > I understand that there are high temperature tolerant tie wraps that > can be used under the cowling. Can some one tell me where to get > these things? > > Thanks, > > -- > Tom Sargent, RV-6A, final assembly > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:08 AM PST US From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Battery capacity testing What all this doesn't tell me is the health of the battery on an ongoing basis. I'd think there should be a better way to test this than repeatedly failing the alternator in flight. Dan, Catastrophic battery failure is rare. If you do this test one or two times a year it will give you a good on-going test of the general battery health. If you want to do a more quantitative test of your battery capacity then I would suggest that you use the procedure documented on Bob N's website. Roger ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:08 AM PST US From: Dan Brown Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery capacity testing Quoting Kelly McMullen : > Caution.........Unless it is a very early M20F, the gear and > possibly the flaps are electrically operated. I would not recommend > running In my case, the plane has manual gear and flaps. That said, I think Bob's recommendation was to reengage the alternator and let it charge for a bit before landing. -- Dan Brown, KE6MKS, dan@familybrown.org "Since all the world is but a story, it were well for thee to buy the more enduring story rather than the story that is less enduring." -- The Judgment of St. Colum Cille ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:17 AM PST US From: Steve Stearns Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: high temp. tie wraps. If you don't mind sticking to the lower strength 4" ones (which I've found to be sufficient for most things, though I sometimes double them in length) you can get Tefzel ties from http://www.cabletiesandmore.com/ for 15 cents each in packages of 100. Steve Stearns Boulder/Longmont, Colorado CSA,EAA,IAC,AOPA,PE,ARRL,BARC (but ignorant none-the-less) Restoring (since 1/07): N45FC O235 Longeze Cothern/Friling CF1 (~1000 Hrs) Flying (since 9/86): N43732 A65 Taylorcraft BC12D ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:27 AM PST US From: Steve Stearns Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Basic Electrical Architecture for review... Bob said: > **These are exceedingly difficult to read** Surprisingly enough, they work well for me but then they are much closer to what I'm used to than the book format. I appreciate your efforts none-the-less. I'll reformat extracts into your preferred format (as I did with the "architecture drawing") when offering things for you and the group to review in the future. Steve Stearns Boulder/Longmont, Colorado CSA,EAA,IAC,AOPA,PE,ARRL,BARC (but ignorant none-the-less) Restoring (since 1/07): N45FC O235 Longeze Cothern/Friling CF1 (~1000 Hrs) Flying (since 9/86): N43732 A65 Taylorcraft BC12D ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:16 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Question about (2-10) master switch From: "user9253" Is the 2-10 master switch a MAKE-BEFORE-BREAK switch? If yes and a standard DP3T switch was substituted, is it likely that the master contactor would drop out during the split second that the switch is moved from "alternator & battery" position to "battery only" position? Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266802#266802 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:51:43 AM PST US From: Jerry2DT@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crazy Transducer readings Folks, My Fuel Flow Transducer has about 150 hrs on it hooked up to GRT Efis/EIS 4000. Worked great then took turns reading either zero or correctly. The other day, bounced between zero and 30+GPH. Faulty transducer? EIS? Wiring? Whatcha think? Yes, I will call GRT, but thought I'd get feedback here first... Thanks all, Jerry Cochran ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:31:55 AM PST US From: David M Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crazy Transducer readings foam or air in fuel lines? Jerry2DT@aol.com wrote: > Folks, > > My Fuel Flow Transducer has about 150 hrs on it hooked up to GRT > Efis/EIS 4000. Worked great then took turns reading either zero or > correctly. The other day, bounced between zero and 30+GPH. Faulty > transducer? EIS? Wiring? Whatcha think? > > Yes, I will call GRT, but thought I'd get feedback here first... > > Thanks all, > > Jerry Cochran > > * > > > * > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:43 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Crazy Transducer readings From: "Perry, Phil" Where is it mounted in the fuel system? What type of fuel system do you have? There might be some turbulence in the fuel line that's causing an inaccurate reading. Phil From: Jerry2DT@aol.com [mailto:Jerry2DT@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:41 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crazy Transducer readings Folks, My Fuel Flow Transducer has about 150 hrs on it hooked up to GRT Efis/EIS 4000. Worked great then took turns reading either zero or correctly. The other day, bounced between zero and 30+GPH. Faulty transducer? EIS? Wiring? Whatcha think? Yes, I will call GRT, but thought I'd get feedback here first... Thanks all, Jerry Cochran ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:29 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Appendix Z From: "gordonrsmith921@yahoo.com" To 'lectric Bob: On your Z-9 drawing, the ground/shield for the AEC 9024-10 LED LV Warn Annunciator light is connected to the +14 volt terminal. Is that correct? Have you published the details regarding the AEC 9024 module various functions? I am particularly interested in the use as an aux battery management module. Gordon Smith Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266868#266868 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:17 PM PST US From: Joe Dubner Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 24V Heated Pitot Ah, now I see the source of the confusion -- a typo that I made. Larry MacDonald Emailed me about it too but we didn't figure it out until you posted, Bob. Thanks. Yes, the data plate says it's a 24V model. And I'd like to trade it for a 12V model. Somehow I had 14V on my mind :-( -- Joe Robert Mitchell wrote: > > On the data plate it says 24V? You didn't really mean 14V? > Bob Mitchell > L-320 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joe > Dubner > Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 21:47 > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: 24V Heated Pitot > > I have a chromed AN 5812-1 14V heated pitot tube from Aero Instrument > Co. and need the exact equivalent in a 12V model. Anyone care to trade? > > Anticipating some responses that lead to thread drift: I don't want to > change the heating element. And yes, it gets hot on 12V but not hot > enough to suit me. I rather just swap with someone who has a 12V model > and a 24V airplane. > > Thanks, > Joe > Independence, OR > http://www.mail2600.com/position ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:17 PM PST US From: "Lynn Riggs" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: 24V Heated Pitot It is possible to get pitot tube icing without getting structural icing. I have had this happen on several occasions', so you are justified in your concerns. Lynn A. Riggs BH 656 Kit 22 -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Werner Schneider Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 12:53 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: 24V Heated Pitot Hi Joe, I think it is down to your mission profile, I would avoid icing condition at all if possible but might go through a thin layer of stratus occasional, I did test the GPS assist in flight (hooking of the pitot line) and it worked quite well (stable attitude reference all the time). However I have the Dynon heated pitot with AoA installed as well (had a 5812 before). I had some thin layer of rim ice skimming under a stratus layer some times but I try to avoid these conditions as without de-icing on my plane/prop I feel not safe enough. A friend of mine even hooked two Dynons on different pitots in order to have redundancy. Again your mission will dictate what you want I would say. br Werner Joe Dubner wrote: > > Thank you, Werner. I /do/ have that version of software installed > with a GPS connected. I /have/ seen the warning message pop up > (mostly on landing roll -- rather disconcerting) and it does give me > additional comfort but as in all things involving proprietary (closed > to scrutiny) software and sketchy specifications, I'm not sure if that > replaces the need for a heated pitot tube in my application. > > Maybe I'll call Dynon and ask. > > Best, > Joe > > > Werner Schneider wrote: >> >> >> >> Joe, get yourself the newest 5.1.1 version of the software and hook >> up a GPS that will give you additional comfort as with that version >> the attitude is, in case of dyn. press. lost backed up with GPS >> speed. (Interesting to see on takeoff roll when a message tells you >> that before the pitot comes live. >> >> Werner >>> >>> All I want to do is have a reliable source of dynamic pressure at >>> all times. It's not a secret but neither is it well known: the >>> Dynon EFIS requires a working pitot system for reliable attitude >>> information. *Attitude*. Not just airspeed. I don't want to turn >>> an inadvertent icing encounter into an emergency (and I consider >>> flying needle-ball-and-airspeed with failed airspeed in IMC an >>> emergency). >>> > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:42 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: How is this battery lug crimp From: "rvg8tor" I am making my fat wire connections with #4 welding cable. I found these lugs at the West Marine store. I used a swagging tool to make the crimp. It seems plenty strong. This was a test piece and was only about 6 in long. I put the lug in the vice and pulled on the cable and I pulled the insulation off. I then put the wire in the vice and pulled the lug for all I was worth and it held. Any reason this type of crimp would not work. These lugs seem to be better sized for the #4 welding cable. My welding supply guy does have a tool that you put the wire and lug into and you whack it with a hammer to make the crimp. The only lug the welding guy carries are copper colored and I though those would be too soft and corrode too much. Hopefully the picture is loaded correctly. It shows the tool as well as the crimp, or swag I guess in this case. -------- Mike "Nemo" Elliott RV-8A QB (Fuselage) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266890#266890 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/small_swag_631.jpg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.