---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/07/09: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:46 AM - Re: How is this battery lug crimp (Harley) 2. 07:18 AM - Subject: high temp. tie wraps. (Rob Mokry) 3. 08:18 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 10/05/09 (Scott Klemptner) 4. 08:45 AM - Re: Subject: high temp. tie wraps. (bob noffs) 5. 07:32 PM - Re: Subject: high temp. tie wraps. (Bob McCallum) 6. 09:03 PM - Re: Wig-Wagging HDI lamps (XeVision) 7. 09:43 PM - Re: How is this battery lug crimp (rvg8tor) 8. 10:12 PM - Re: Re: Wig-Wagging HDI lamps (Ralph Finch) 9. 10:41 PM - Re: Re: How is this battery lug crimp (Richard Girard) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:46:00 AM PST US From: Harley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: How is this battery lug crimp Yep...the link to the picture came through fine... Hmmm...interesting application ..using a cable thimble swager for a crimper...but being able to keep it from pulling off is only one of the goals of crimping. I wonder how gas tight it will be with those "ears" on the sides. A regular crimper compresses the lug all the way around and doesn't leave any areas where the crimp changes direction, like the ears do where they meet the wire. I'm wondering if this might be a location where air, water, air borne chemicals, etc. can get in and start corrosion, increasing the resistance... Any visible gaps where the ears meet the wire? And if not, is it tight enough there to prevent infiltration of gases or liquids? Using the correct tool for the job is always a better idea! You can always borrow a crimper if you don't have one. Harley ------------------------------------------------------------------------ rvg8tor wrote: > > I am making my fat wire connections with #4 welding cable. I found these lugs at the West Marine store. I used a swagging tool to make the crimp. It seems plenty strong. This was a test piece and was only about 6 in long. I put the lug in the vice and pulled on the cable and I pulled the insulation off. I then put the wire in the vice and pulled the lug for all I was worth and it held. Any reason this type of crimp would not work. > > These lugs seem to be better sized for the #4 welding cable. My welding supply guy does have a tool that you put the wire and lug into and you whack it with a hammer to make the crimp. The only lug the welding guy carries are copper colored and I though those would be too soft and corrode too much. Hopefully the picture is loaded correctly. It shows the tool as well as the crimp, or swag I guess in this case. > > -------- > Mike "Nemo" Elliott > RV-8A QB (Fuselage) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266890#266890 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/small_swag_631.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:52 AM PST US From: "Rob Mokry" Subject: Subject: AeroElectric-List: high temp. tie wraps. What ever happened to the whitish tiewraps with the metal insert "tooth"? Seems these were available surplus...... ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:33 AM PST US From: Scott Klemptner Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 10/05/09 Time: 04:14:21 PM PST US=0AFrom: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" =0ASubject: Re: AeroElectric-List: high temp. tie wraps.=0A =0A=0AAt 04:15 PM 10/5/2009, you wrote:=0A>I understand that there are high temperature =0A>tolerant tie wraps that can be used under the =0A>cowling. - Can some one tell me where to get these things?=0A=0A- They are Tefze l tie wraps. About $2 each.=0A=0A- Consider Dacron string ties. Works goo d, lasts=0A- a long time and is really cheap.=0A=0A=0A------ - Bob . . .=0A=0A=0A=0AI second the string ties!=0AI rewired a-North Am erican T-6 a while ago and cussed the 50+ year old string ties while gettin g the original wires out, even the string ties firewall forward! The string ties seem to be completely immune to heat, oil, fuel and all the rest of t he environmental factors that kill wire ties.=0A=0AI rarely use tie wraps a nymore...have even learned to use string ties through inspection holes usin g forceps-=0A-Scott A Klemptner=0Abmwr606 on Yahoo IM=0A=0AIgnore those sparks, I meant to do that!=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:45:30 AM PST US Subject: Re: Subject: AeroElectric-List: high temp. tie wraps. From: bob noffs what about wire lacing? it is almost free and only a little time consuming. bob noffs On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Rob Mokry wrote: > > > What ever happened to the whitish tiewraps with the metal insert "tooth"? > Seems these were available surplus...... > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:23 PM PST US From: "Bob McCallum" Subject: RE: Subject: AeroElectric-List: high temp. tie wraps. Rob; Still available. I believe you're referring to the T&B brand Ty-RapT. Thomas and Betts was the originator of the tie wrap in 1958 and their original design featured this metal locking tang, or tooth. See http://www.tnb.com/ps/pubint/index.cgi?a=cbrands Bob McC > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric- > list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Mokry > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 9:19 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Subject: AeroElectric-List: high temp. tie wraps. > > > > > What ever happened to the whitish tiewraps with the metal insert "tooth"? > Seems these were available surplus...... > > > _- > ================================================= > ========= > _- > ================================================= > ========= > _- > ================================================= > ========= > _- > ================================================= > ========= > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:03:11 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wig-Wagging HDI lamps From: "XeVision" [quote="Bob McC"]Interesting Dan, that seems to support Eric, and yet LoPresti says their 5000 hour warranty is not affected. Go figure. Each to his own, I guess, and so the differing opinions each survive. Eric's arguments make sense, yet two manufacturers actually producing the product can't agree with each other. Bob McC > -- The new pulsing Lopresti PowerPulse is the same unit made by http://seatoneng.com/ or http://www.maxpulsemaxdim.com/comparisons.htm is a pretty cool compact form factor, I have to admit, I would use it for Incandescent or Halogen lamps. It is a GREAT product. However, its built in warm up is NOT suitable for HID IF you are concerned about ballast and bulb life. Its bulb warm up is not sufficient for HID because the warm up time is much too short (~5 seconds) and most of the pulsing speeds are too slow to be OK for HID bulbs. XeVision was the first (4+ years ago) to offer Pulsing specifically designed for the requirements of HID, after much discussion with the HID bulb manufacturers about bulb operating requirements for long life (ARC plasma behavior and electrodes). We make our own ballasts but these quality HID bulbs are ONLY made by Philips or Osram (Sylvania). The unit Lopresti is offering has only a 5 second warm up, OK for incandescent or LED (not needed), but NOT good for HID. HID requires the bulb arc plasma reach steady state or very close to it before pulsing should start if one cares about HID system life. Anything less than 20 seconds of continuous warm up time is too short and will significantly affect HID bulb life. Slow pulsing is also harmful, 60 ppm (1 Hz) per channel (120 ppm both channels "wig-wag") is the approximate optimal speed considering both bulb life and visual effectiveness for HID. Short warm up and / or slow pulsing allows the plasma to cool off too much in pulsing operation, requiring very much higher starting voltages to restrike the ARC, thus accelerating erosion of the electrodes. Once the HID bulb is warmed up, 20-30 seconds (sufficient) or more, if pulsing is fast enough, the on pulse is long enough and the off period short enough the plasma can stay hot enough to again sustain a low voltage arc (~85 VAC) as it does in steady state without resorting to a high voltage restrike 25+ KV for each pulse. The Lopresti unit offers 44 ppm (22 ppm each channel) and 88 ppm (44 ppm each channel), these are for both channels combined. Only the 120 ppm their fastest rate (60 ppm each channel) is suitable for HID. Note: XeVision has a Patent Pending regarding warm-up technology for HID (filed over 4 years ago). The Patent office has granted our Patent about 1 month ago and the final paperwork has been submitted for issuance from the US Patent office. The original XePulse I and the about to be released XePulse II are covered by this Patent. The XePulse II is about 20% of the size of the original unit and the new unit includes additional patentable enhancements to insure maximum HID system life while in pulsing operation. Philips and Osram (the only quality D1S) bulb makers in the world. both claim a Tc of either 2500 or 3000 hours. This bulb statistic means that only 63% of the bulbs will still function (on/off) after that amount of run time in the lab. Lopresti has used and still uses these 2 brands of D1S HID bulbs and yet still claims a 5000 hour warranty ???? Without a proper arc chamber warm up Philips and Osram claim the bulb is only good for about 20,000 starts. That is only 6 hours of continuous pulsing if it is not in the plasma (steady state) instead of excited Xenon only as during the initial starting. Depending on how someone operates their pulsing system, pulsing while "cold" the warmup to steady state can be extended to over 5 minutes which wears the electrodes at an accelerated rate. Once the arc gap gets large enough and 105-110 VAC (max steady state bulb voltage) cannot sustain the arc the bulbs life has ended. When a bulb is new it takes about 85 VAC and 0.4 amp (35 watt) (0.6 amp for 50 watts) to sustain the arc once warmed up. When the bulb is cold it takes more power to keep the arc going. During this early phase of bulb operation it can take 2X to 3X the power to the bulb to keep it "lit". This extended overpowering to 70-90 watts is hard on the bulb this is the bulb operation phase to be avoided for HID pulsing. Hot restriking after less than a second of cool down (more than 30 seconds) it takes as much as 25,000 Volts to restart. Every other company (6) which offers a pulsing system indicates 30 seconds to 1 minute steady on before pulsing should start (flip the switch) for HID. The HID bulb manufacturers all agree that a close to steady state power to the arc is mandatory for good bulb life and the higher the pulsing frequency the better (that works well visibly). Hot restarting takes much more power if the bulb is allowed to cool for more than 1/2 second. If pulsing only occurs while the plasma state is well established (after 20-30 secs) then the power required to re establish the arc is almost the same as to keep it "lit". Its all about the impedance within the arc and under what conditions is it easiest on the bulb and ballast to re establish the arc. Its all about adequately warming the arc chamber up and keeping the off time between pulses short and the on time of the pulses long. I guess its their engineers (facts) "opinions" (Philips and Osram) vs Lopresti sales team opinions. I think I'll stick with them, after all they are the bulb experts. The power being put into the bulb/ballast system can easily be monitored with an amp probe on the cable to the bulb on an oscilloscope to see how the power varies between operating the bulb these 2 different ways, "cold /cool" pulsing or "hot" (warmed up) "steady state" pulsing. One of Lopresti's people told me that their HID warm up was "instantaneous" Those guys are miracle workers and can defy the laws of Physics. -------- LED still has a long way to go to compete with HID as a landing light. This is true in terms of total lumens and reach (distance). Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267064#267064 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:15 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: How is this battery lug crimp From: "rvg8tor" Harley, Thanks I kind of knew it would not work well, I got impatient knowing I would have to wait for the proper lugs int he mail and thought these might work with the tool I had, definitely not the right tool for the job. Oh well I guess I will try the solder technique. I should have the parts in a couple days. -------- Mike "Nemo" Elliott RV-8A QB (Fuselage) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267065#267065 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:12:05 PM PST US From: "Ralph Finch" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wig-Wagging HDI lamps >LED still has a long way to go to compete with HID as a landing light. >This is true in terms of total lumens and reach (distance). Yes, but I wonder, how do the LEDs do as a recognition light, compared to a landing light? ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:41:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: How is this battery lug crimp From: Richard Girard Why don't you just solder your crimp and have the best of both worlds? Gas tight and mechanically strong. Just a thought. Rick Girard On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 11:39 PM, rvg8tor wrote: > > Harley, > > Thanks I kind of knew it would not work well, I got impatient knowing I > would have to wait for the proper lugs int he mail and thought these might > work with the tool I had, definitely not the right tool for the job. Oh > well I guess I will try the solder technique. I should have the parts in a > couple days. > > -------- > Mike "Nemo" Elliott > RV-8A QB (Fuselage) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267065#267065 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.