---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/19/09: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:24 AM - Re: Re: Bells and Whistles (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 09:08 AM - Re: Magneto tacho signal (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 02:02 PM - 2-10 swtich spacing (rvg8tor) 4. 02:42 PM - Re: 2-10 swtich spacing (Franz Fux) 5. 06:43 PM - Re: 2-10 swtich spacing (B Tomm) 6. 07:35 PM - Re: 2-10 swtich spacing (Vaughn Teegarden) 7. 09:51 PM - Re: King KMD150 battery (n801bh@netzero.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:49 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Bells and Whistles At 09:14 PM 10/17/2009, you wrote: >Bob, >I understand and concur with your concern. >For example, I prefer manual flaps over electro-whizzy ones, but I >can't argue that there are many applications where powered flaps >(electric or hydraulic) are desirable. There are failure modes >associated with powered flaps that may cause potentially unsafe >situations. However, those failure modes are considered an >acceptable risk when weighed against the convenience. >I have to then challenge you and suggest that having (as an example) >airspeed sensors that can disable powered flap activation when IAS >is excessive may be a convenience worth having despite it's >potential failure modes. That is not to say that said sensor need >not be robust - I would assume that robustness would be expected. I >believe the application of such a sensor to a perceived need could >be worthwhile. >The Vertical Power concept takes this discussion to a new >level. While I prefer having manual activation of most of my >switches and controls, the Vertical Power ideas are certainly viable. All the above is non-quantifiable and subject to comparison with business models as a "viable" product and failure modes as a "low risk" product. I don't think I offered anything as a recommendation to be challenged. I was only suggesting that when it comes to automated systems there is an increased risk of pilot inattention and dependence on that automation. There is also a common-sense observation that hooking motors to flight surfaces has a long history of lessons-learned that the majority of OBAM aviation enthusiasts are unaware of. >Experimental aviation is where many (if not most) advances in >aviation occur. I say lets continue to advance aviation by >expanding ideas and concepts - including new electro-whizzys. We >don't have to stay with wing-warping just because it resulted from a >prudent development program. Although ... maybe we need to consider >it once again in today's environment. Hmmm ... any experimental >aviation nuts out there willing to rework the wing warp idea? Not sure what this has to do with the conversation. Indeed, the first time anything new is tried, the investigator is an "amateur" at a particular task. Experimental flight test USED to be the place where new things were tried and developed before loading those ideas to the production line. Reliability is inversely proportional to parts count. Cost of ownership goes up with parts count as does weight, volume and sometimes - panel space. Flying an airplane is not a complex or difficult task . . . "convenience" just doesn't add performance or reduce cost. Uncle Bert's design goals for Voyager was ALL performance driven, convenience had little if any part in the task. I've worked on biz jets where it was possible for a flight to be totally button-pushed and knob-twisted from wheels-up to touch-down. Now THAT's convenience . . . but the airplane didn't get there any faster nor did it carry more payload. Airplane owners come in all flavors but I would hope they are ALL cautious and strive for competence at the implementation of their personal design goals. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:56 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Magneto tacho signal > >If the only reason to have 2 ignitions was for backup - maybe. The >problem is that these engines with big ass pistons really need 2 >functional ignitions to get the flame spread over with before the >moment has passed to make useful power. Understand. But having both ignition systems operating all the time is not a safety issue . . . only a performance issue. Not an emergency, also not at all comfortable. A more thorough check can be done at altitude, leaned. This shows up problems you might not notice on the ground check. Unfortunately, I didn't do this before landing on the prior flight. Again, a performance issue that does not put the flight at serious risk for an off-airport return to earth. To be sure, there is a host of simple-ideas affecting performance and reliability that builders are encouraged to consider in crafting his/her design goals. System reliability conversation targets risk reduction. Many cause/effect features in an FMEA will speak to reductions in performance or increases in pilot workload. The goal is to maximize probability of putting the rubber back on the ground with the aluminum smooth and folks aboard smiling. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:02:31 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: 2-10 swtich spacing From: "rvg8tor" I asked this of B&C who sells the switches but they directed me to ask Bob Nuckolls on this forum so I am putting it out for anyone with the information. I am not sure why B&C would not know technical information for items they sell! I had drilled holes 3/4" on center for my switches. The bigger 2-10 switches fit, but with very little room between them. Is there a minimum space between switches required? Thanks for the help. -------- Mike "Nemo" Elliott RV-8A QB (Fuselage) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268599#268599 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:42:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 2-10 swtich spacing From: Franz Fux When I had my panel cut out by e-panel builders a while ago they used 1' 1/8 center Franz On 19/10/09 1:58 PM, "rvg8tor" wrote: > > I asked this of B&C who sells the switches but they directed me to ask Bob > Nuckolls on this forum so I am putting it out for anyone with the information. > I am not sure why B&C would not know technical information for items they > sell! > > I had drilled holes 3/4" on center for my switches. The bigger 2-10 switches > fit, but with very little room between them. > > Is there a minimum space between switches required? > > Thanks for the help. > > -------- > Mike "Nemo" Elliott > RV-8A QB (Fuselage) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268599#268599 > > > > > > > > > > Franz Fux Director of Operations Last Frontier Heliskiing Ltd. Bell 2 Lodge P.O. Box 1237 Vernon, BC, V1T 6N6 CANADA Office Contact T: (250) 558-7980 F: (250) 558-7981 http://www.lastfrontierheli.com Lodge Contact T: (250) 275-4770 F: (250) 275-4912 http://www.bell2lodge.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:27 PM PST US From: "B Tomm" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 2-10 swtich spacing I seem to recall Bob M suggested 0.9 inch spacing. Bevan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rvg8tor Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 1:58 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: 2-10 swtich spacing I asked this of B&C who sells the switches but they directed me to ask Bob Nuckolls on this forum so I am putting it out for anyone with the information. I am not sure why B&C would not know technical information for items they sell! I had drilled holes 3/4" on center for my switches. The bigger 2-10 switches fit, but with very little room between them. Is there a minimum space between switches required? Thanks for the help. -------- Mike "Nemo" Elliott RV-8A QB (Fuselage) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268599#268599 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:59 PM PST US From: "Vaughn Teegarden" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 2-10 swtich spacing In Bob Nukolls original Aeroelectic drawings I am sure he showed 0.8 inch spacing, but in his newer version he has 0.9 inch spacing. I believe you will have to wait for an answer from the man himself. His experience is vast, while most of us have little to none. Europa XS191 ----- Original Message ----- From: "rvg8tor" Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 16:58 Subject: AeroElectric-List: 2-10 swtich spacing > > I asked this of B&C who sells the switches but they directed me to ask Bob > Nuckolls on this forum so I am putting it out for anyone with the > information. I am not sure why B&C would not know technical information > for items they sell! > > I had drilled holes 3/4" on center for my switches. The bigger 2-10 > switches fit, but with very little room between them. > > Is there a minimum space between switches required? > > Thanks for the help. > > -------- > Mike "Nemo" Elliott > RV-8A QB (Fuselage) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268599#268599 > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:51:24 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: King KMD150 battery Hi guys.. My King KMD150 in my experimental has started to display the dreaded "internal battery needs replacing".. I googled the details and it looks like a kinda involved process to pull the unit apart, carefull y separate some PC boards and solder in a new one. Battery + and Battery giant has them for 5 bucks so the parts cost is minimal. Anyone know a tech who does the R&R for a reasonable price ? If not it looks like I w ill break out the soldering stuff and give it a try. Thanks in advance Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ____________________________________________________________ The Art Institutes Offering Programs In Media Arts, Culinary, Fashion, & Design. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/c?cp=AB_T2Vm23Js3pZvKDRat0 QAAJ1GgTD6yWnN9nTOcXhzb7nn5AAQAAAAFAAAAAMP1KD4AAAMlAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhBI QAAAAA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.