Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:31 AM - Re: Lacing (George, Neal E Capt USAF ACC 605 TES/DOA)
2. 06:30 AM - Serial data output from a Garmin 430W to KMD150 (Bill Bradburry)
3. 07:03 AM - Re: Lacing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 07:10 AM - Re: Re: Tachometer Generator Wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:46 AM - p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage (Craig Winkelmann)
6. 07:51 AM - Re: [Probable SPAM] Re: FLIR EVS (was XeVision HIDs) (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
7. 08:03 AM - Re: Serial data output from a Garmin 430W to KMD150 (Werner Schneider)
8. 11:29 AM - Re: [Probable SPAM] Re: FLIR EVS (was XeVision HIDs) (Michael Pereira)
9. 01:00 PM - Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 01:58 PM - Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage (Craig Winkelmann)
11. 02:11 PM - Re: Serial data output from a Garmin 430W to KMD150 (Bill Bradburry)
12. 02:13 PM - Re: [Probable SPAM] Re: FLIR EVS (was XeVision HIDs) (Bill Bradburry)
13. 04:26 PM - Re: Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 04:30 PM - Re: Lacing (Craig Winkelmann)
15. 05:40 PM - Re: Re: Lacing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 06:24 PM - Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage (Craig Winkelmann)
17. 07:01 PM - Re: Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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Craig -
Stein carries lacing:
http://www.steinair.com/accessories.htm
Sixth item down the page.
And here's a link to Bob's shop notes on tying bundles:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/cable_lace/cable_lace.html
neal
=============
Bob:
You mentioned Dacron lacing as a good alternative to high temp wire ties in
the engine compartment. Is there a good place to get the material and where
would I find a tutorial on how to lace?
Craig
Message 2
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Subject: | Serial data output from a Garmin 430W to KMD150 |
My KMD150 does not see the GPS output from the GNS430W. Does anyone have
any input on how to convince these two to talk to one another?
Bill B
Message 3
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At 11:33 PM 10/21/2009, you wrote:
><capav8r@gmail.com>
>
>Bob:
>
>You mentioned Dacron lacing as a good alternative to high temp wire
>ties in the engine compartment. Is there a good place to get the
>material and where would I find a tutorial on how to lace?
I don't recommend a "running lace" for
aircraft wiring. Spot ties used on the same
frequency as you might use tie-wraps is
preferred. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/cable_lace/cable_lace.html
Aircraft Spruce, Steinair, and many electronic supply
houses stock lacing tape. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Misc/Lacing_Tape/
My favorite is the Type II, Size 3, Finish B but
they're all suited to your task.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Tachometer Generator Wiring |
At 11:32 PM 10/21/2009, you wrote:
><capav8r@gmail.com>
>
>Bob:
>
>One other item, the tach gen turns at half of the engine rpm. So,
>the signal from the tach gen would need to be fully rectified to
>make this work (for me to get enough pulses per revolution as 1 ppr
>is the lowest recognized by the EFIS system).
>
>If the tach gen signal is 20 VRMS as you mentioned, is there a
>simple rectifier circuit you'd recommend?
>
>This should finish the work on this tach issue.
I have no idea what your particular tach generator's
operating specs are. My offering was based on the
3-phase, permanent magnet tach-generators that I
was manufacturing/replacing 30 years ago.
Folks often refer to their tach transducer as a
"tach generator" when in fact, it may be any
technology that converts shaft rotations to some
periodic signal. The exact nature of that signal
is driven by requirement for the companion instrument.
The last tach transducer project I worked was
for the Bonanza 2" instrument upgrade program
where the instrument expected 8 pulses per rev
at 12v. We mounted 8 magnets on a disk and spun
them next to a hall sensor. But the device you're
working with can be an probably is something
entirely different.
Do you have part numbers and a wiring diagram
for the orignal system associated with your
"tach generator"?\
Assuming that it IS an sine-wave, AC device,
then you don't want to rectify it, you'll probably
want to 'square' the signal with a simple over-driven
amplifier. Didn't I suggest a circuit for this?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 5
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Subject: | p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
Bob:
My application is a russian radial engine and I am trying to use the tach input
of an EFIS system in the aircraft. The EFIS expects a nice square wave from
a Hall Effect sensor. However, I cannot mount a Hall effect sensor on the Russian
mags as there is no port to do so and even if there were, the threads would
be metric pitch.
The tach gen is a three phase AC generator. The connector on the tach gen is three
pins so it is likely Y-wound and uses the case as neutral. According to
specs on the engine, the tach gen turns at half of the engine rpm. What I see
is the following:
1) I can use a single phase of the tach gen as you proposed but I will then only
get one-half pulse per revolution of the engine since the gen turns at half
the engine rpm. I was thinking of doing full wave rectification of the signal
to get back to one pulse per revolution.
2) I could condition the p-lead signal and tell the EFIS that there are 4.5 pulses
per revolution. However, I don't know how to condition the signal properly.
This method would provide no engine RPM during a mag check but I'd be OK with
that.
We are putting a scope on one phase of the tach gen output and the p-leads tomorrow.
I'll take a picture of the scope as this will help.
Thanks,
Craig
PS - bought your book and it is excellent. Thanks for that and all your help to
us with experimental aircraft!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268923#268923
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: FLIR EVS (was XeVision HIDs) |
I used to live in NJ (and PA before that). I swear there are a lot more
deer in NJ and PA than down here in the more rural NC. But, there's a
lot more shooting and eating going on down here.
do not archive
Richard E. Tasker wrote:
> <retasker@optonline.net>
>
> Amen to that. They are like giant rats down here in NJ.
>
> Roger wrote:
>> <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
>>
>>
>>> Deer are ruthless in their attacks. I personally know 5 people who
>>> were attacked by deer using a flanking attack method. In all these
>>> cases the deer waited until the front of the vehicle had passed and
>>> then rammed into the side of the vehicle. An attack that is
>>> impossible to counter.
>>>
>>> I will be using a pasture in front of my house eventually, and deer
>>> are my biggest fear. They are impossible to predict.
>>>
>>> Raymond Julian
>>
>> Ray,
>>
>> It is apparent... We all need to eat more venison!
>>
>> Roger
>> Upton, MA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 7
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|
Subject: | Re: Serial data output from a Garmin 430W to KMD150 |
Bill,
did you configure the 430 that it does output NMEA0183 format with the
correct baudrate and also, that the KMD does look for that format with
the same baudrate and that receive and transmit of the two units are
crossed? You have 3 wires between the two right?
Just as a starter
br Werner
Bill Bradburry wrote:
>
> My KMD150 does not see the GPS output from the GNS430W. Does anyone
> have any input on how to convince these two to talk to one another?
>
>
>
> Bill B
>
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
Message 8
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|
Subject: | Re: FLIR EVS (was XeVision HIDs) |
ugh, i left out my point. The landing lights help make *you* more
visable to others. Not saying flir is bad, just leave the lights on
(which you covered already).
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 2:47 PM, <longg@pjm.com> wrote:
>
> One of the features is that the camera is oblivious to direct light, even the
sun. No impact. You can keep your eyes outside and just confirm through the display.
Awfully good for finding that pattern traffic and even spotting those
deer trying to ruin your landing.
>
> There are several videos on you tube which provide an example. Check out the
one coming into Aspen. Pretty phenomenal. Imagine taking off to the east from
Aspen on a dark night (somewhat unusual) and seeing every pebble out there.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Pereira
> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 3:44 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: [Probable SPAM] Re: AeroElectric-List: FLIR EVS (was XeVision HIDs)
>
>
> Well of course. But most midairs happen in or near the pattern and the
> landing lights are definitely visible in that environment.
>
> Can you run the landing lights and flir at the same time or does it
> wash out the picture ?
>
> c'ya,
> Michael
>
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 6:55 AM, <longg@pjm.com> wrote:
>>
>> Also true, but I never mentioned that you should take your screwdriver out to
the tie down and remove your headlight. You also don't need the latest HID gadget
to be safe. Strobes were designed for that reason. Do you know what your
dinky headlight looks like when you fly over a metropolitan center at night?
Like every other light.
>>
>> As an example, go out to you local airport one night after dark, sit there for
3 hours and tell me how many GA flights come in - try not to fall asleep counting.
>>
>> Regardless of whether you are flying VFR, IFR or in combination with FLIR, your
first and last job is to see and avoid. Anything that helps you see and avoid
will help you and others.
>>
>> See...
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nm8pNgqBAk
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Pereira
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 1:36 AM
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: [Probable SPAM] Re: AeroElectric-List: FLIR EVS (was XeVision HIDs)
>>
>>
>> Hmm..
>>
>> Maybe true, but the flir won't help other people see you at all.
>>
>> c'ya,
>> Michael
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 10:40 AM, <longg@pjm.com> wrote:
>>> Last quote I had for X model was about $3500 from flir.com. Sure, that's a
>>> lot of HID's but you'll never see as well with any of them. If you're going
>>> to spend for LoPresti stuff, it won't be long before he's sitting on Palm
>>> Beach with your $3500. Ask for the additional information and they will
>>> send you prices etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Enjoy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos
>>> Trigo
>>> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 11:53 AM
>>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: FLIR EVS (was XeVision HIDs)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Glenn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Which is the price of this critter?
>>>
>>> And where to buy it?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Carlos
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
>>>
>>>> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of longg@pjm.com
>>>
>>>> Sent: sexta-feira, 16 de Outubro de 2009 15:47
>>>
>>>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>>
>>>> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: XeVision HIDs
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Forget about all this wattage stuff, I'm going straight to FLIR. There is
>>>> a lower cost
>>>
>>>> Exp solution available now. As technology improves and the price comes
>>>> down, we
>>>
>>>> become more stealth.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> http://www.flir.com/cvs/americas/en/aviation/products/evsx/
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Actually my best night landings are usually with the landing light off so
>>>> as not to
>>>
>>>> distort ground effect.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Glenn
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Do Not Archive
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>>
>>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
At 09:44 AM 10/22/2009, you wrote:
><capav8r@gmail.com>
>
>Bob:
>
>My application is a russian radial engine and I am trying to use the
>tach input of an EFIS system in the aircraft. The EFIS expects a
>nice square wave from a Hall Effect sensor. However, I cannot mount
>a Hall effect sensor on the Russian mags as there is no port to do
>so and even if there were, the threads would be metric pitch.
>
>The tach gen is a three phase AC generator. The connector on the
>tach gen is three pins so it is likely Y-wound and uses the case as
>neutral. According to specs on the engine, the tach gen turns at
>half of the engine rpm. What I see is the following:
>
>1) I can use a single phase of the tach gen as you proposed but I
>will then only get one-half pulse per revolution of the engine since
>the gen turns at half the engine rpm. I was thinking of doing full
>wave rectification of the signal to get back to one pulse per revolution.
This may not be true. It depends on how many poles are in
the rotor magnet and stator windings. I think the machines
we were building had 4 poles.
>2) I could condition the p-lead signal and tell the EFIS that there
>are 4.5 pulses per revolution. However, I don't know how to
>condition the signal properly. This method would provide no engine
>RPM during a mag check but I'd be OK with that.
>
>We are putting a scope on one phase of the tach gen output and the
>p-leads tomorrow. I'll take a picture of the scope as this will help.
Okay. That's a good start. Also check continuity
between any one signal lead and case . . . I suspect
you'll find that there is no "neutral" connection.
If you do a full-wave rectification of the 3-phase
output, you will indeed get a ripple signature that
is 3x the frequency of a single phase . . . but it
drops to 5% pk-pk of average. Now you'll need to process
that small signal that becomes even smaller at idle and
perhaps run-up rpms.
How hard is it to get your hands on another
tach generator . . . it doesn't need to be
compatible with your tach, only fit the engine.
I can probably show you how to build a many-pulses
hall (or perhaps a bunches of pulses electro-
magnetic) transducer into the old tach generator
case.
>PS - bought your book and it is excellent. Thanks for that and all
>your help to us with experimental aircraft!
Thanks for the kind words. I'm pleased that you
find the work useful!
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
Bob:
I think I know where you are going with the tach gen. We could tap the side of
the case and put a hall effect on it to "watch" the rotor magnets go by. I suspect
the stator windings would need to be removed. Am I on track?
To answer your question, yes, I can get another tach gen for the engine with no
problems. About $150 for a new one...a little less for a used one. The Hall
Effect can be obtained fro Aircraft Spruce.
I'll post pictures of the o-scope and also look at the terminal to case resistance
to see if there is any connection.
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268972#268972
Message 11
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Subject: | Serial data output from a Garmin 430W to KMD150 |
The GNS430W only outputs "aviation". This is not on the list of what the
KMD150 says it will read, however, I have been told by both Garmin and
Honeywell tech support that the KMD will read it.
So far, I have not been able to tell my KMD... :>) I was hoping that
someone on the list had accomplished that..
Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Werner
Schneider
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Serial data output from a Garmin 430W to
KMD150
--> <glastar@gmx.net>
Bill,
did you configure the 430 that it does output NMEA0183 format with the
correct baudrate and also, that the KMD does look for that format with the
same baudrate and that receive and transmit of the two units are crossed?
You have 3 wires between the two right?
Just as a starter
br Werner
Bill Bradburry wrote:
>
> My KMD150 does not see the GPS output from the GNS430W. Does anyone
> have any input on how to convince these two to talk to one another?
>
>
>
> Bill B
>
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: FLIR EVS (was XeVision HIDs) |
Perhaps if you cleared your 50 cals while on short final??? :>)
B2
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Mauledriver Watson
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Probable SPAM] Re: AeroElectric-List: FLIR EVS (was XeVision
HIDs)
--> <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
I used to live in NJ (and PA before that). I swear there are a lot more
deer in NJ and PA than down here in the more rural NC. But, there's a lot
more shooting and eating going on down here.
do not archive
Richard E. Tasker wrote:
> <retasker@optonline.net>
>
> Amen to that. They are like giant rats down here in NJ.
>
> Roger wrote:
>> <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
>>
>>
>>> Deer are ruthless in their attacks. I personally know 5 people who
>>> were attacked by deer using a flanking attack method. In all these
>>> cases the deer waited until the front of the vehicle had passed and
>>> then rammed into the side of the vehicle. An attack that is
>>> impossible to counter.
>>>
>>> I will be using a pasture in front of my house eventually, and deer
>>> are my biggest fear. They are impossible to predict.
>>>
>>> Raymond Julian
>>
>> Ray,
>>
>> It is apparent... We all need to eat more venison!
>>
>> Roger
>> Upton, MA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
At 03:56 PM 10/22/2009, you wrote:
><capav8r@gmail.com>
>
>Bob:
>
>I think I know where you are going with the tach gen. We could tap
>the side of the case and put a hall effect on it to "watch" the
>rotor magnets go by. I suspect the stator windings would need to be
>removed. Am I on track?
Close. The first time I prototyped a hall-effect
tach transducer, I salvaged the whole front end bell
and shaft. Just enough hardware to grab the engine.
Some time on the lathe produced a new, short rear
end bell and ECB mount. Another lathe-cut part had
12 little rod-magnets pressed into it and positioned
to fly past the hall device on the ECB.
>To answer your question, yes, I can get another tach gen for the
>engine with no problems. About $150 for a new one...a little less
>for a used one. The Hall Effect can be obtained fro Aircraft Spruce.
The hall device I'm considering is a little surface
mounted device.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 14
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|
Intersting as the avionics shop on my field said using wax covered lacing cord
was not appropriate under the cowling. Comments?
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268985#268985
Message 15
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At 06:29 PM 10/22/2009, you wrote:
><capav8r@gmail.com>
>
>Intersting as the avionics shop on my field said using wax covered
>lacing cord was not appropriate under the cowling. Comments?
The clove hitch methodology (I) leaves the knot
in tension and would probably be more secure
if not waxed. I've not had any knots come loose
when you tie 'em up like (II) . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/cable_lace/cable_lace.html
The knot serves only to provide a "lump" that
stops the free ends from slipping though the noose-
loop, there's little or no tension on the final
knot.
Actually, I think the waxed cord gets you a tighter
knot because the string slides over itself easier
during the tightening process. But all the
listed tapes are better than nylon-tie wraps.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
> If you do a full-wave rectification of the 3-phase
> output, you will indeed get a ripple signature that
> is 3x the frequency of a single phase . . . but it
> drops to 5% pk-pk of average. Now you'll need to process
> that small signal that becomes even smaller at idle and
> perhaps run-up rpms.
Bob, I was thinking of only rectifying one phase not all three. My thought was
that the tach gen is rotating at half engine speed, I'd get another "peak" in
the signal from one phase and essentially double the frequency. Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268999#268999
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
>
>Bob, I was thinking of only rectifying one phase not all three. My
>thought was that the tach gen is rotating at half engine speed, I'd
>get another "peak" in the signal from one phase and essentially
>double the frequency.
Hmmmm . . . yeah, that would work.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
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