---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 10/31/09: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:59 AM - Re: Crimpmaster for insulated, non-insulated, and open barrel (messydeer) 2. 02:07 PM - Re: KIS-List: Aircraft electric question () 3. 03:36 PM - Re: Re: Crimpmaster for insulated, non-insulated, and open barrel (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 04:51 PM - Re: Crimpmaster for insulated, non-insulated, and open barrel (messydeer) 5. 06:55 PM - Battery Contactor Coil Wiring (messydeer) 6. 07:08 PM - Re: Battery Contactor Coil Wiring (Don) 7. 07:26 PM - Re: Battery Contactor Coil Wiring (Bob White) 8. 07:34 PM - Re: Battery Contactor Coil Wiring (messydeer) 9. 08:09 PM - Re: Re: Battery Contactor Coil Wiring (Don) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:59:12 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Crimpmaster for insulated, non-insulated, and open barrel From: "messydeer" Thanks, Bob :-) I would have used insulated terminals, but they don't make faston insulated terminals for 8AWG. I already have the wire, so need to go with what they make, uninsulated open barrel faston receptacles with separate ears for wire and insulation. I've seen the open barrel crimpers with butt-cheek pockets, but I don't have very many of these connections, so I'm thinking I could use my cheapo GB crimper. It only goes down to 10awg, but since it's not a cycling crimper, it might work. Or I could bend the tabs over individually using a pair of pliers. Another issue I have is figuring out which end goes where with the Crimpaster for PIDG terminals. The left side of the tool have dies shaped like flying saucers and are coded with numbers and colors for size. The right side ones are more elliptical. The right side also is a little narrower than the left. So the terminal sticks out the left side and the wire goes in from the right? -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270247#270247 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/gb_cheapo_crimper_836.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/crimpmaster_right_side_270.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/crimpmaster_left_side_383.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:07:43 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: KIS-List: Aircraft electric question 10/31/2009 Hello Al, You wrote: "When wiring for the systems that are controlled by switches in the cockpit such as lighting, flaps, pitot heat, do you run the full amperage through the 20A switches or should the switches trip relays to handle the larger current?" If the switch is capable enough to handle the load it is simpler, and with less parts count, to control the items directly with the switch. So you start out with the switch rating and the current draw (including surge) of the item to be controlled. If you reach the point where the switch rating is inadequate then it is time to start thinking in terms of relays. Of course the wire guage and circuit protection device (fuses or circuit breakers) must also be appropriately sized. I know that there is a tendency among builders to shy away from the electrical aspects of the building for a long time. It has been my experience that once a builder gets his feet wet in this arena he almost invariable realizes that this electrical stuff is fun, educational, and very satisfying to work with. If you don't already have a copy of Bob Nuckoll's book "The Aeroelectrical Connection", -- see here: https://matronics.com/aeroelectric/Catalog/pub/pub.html#P-Book you should buy one or borrow one locally. You may rebel at first look and say that this is far more than I need to know or want to know about this subject -- fair enough, then treat it as reference material. It is not a cook book per se, but that book plus the folks on the matronics aeroelectric-list will do more towards keeping your electrical system on track than any two other sources in the world. I am going to shoot this over to the folks on the aeroelectric-list and see how they react. 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." PS: Please let me display one personal bias here. There are various magic electrical boxes available commercially. The fundamental theme seems to run along the line of "if you buy our box then all of your electrical problems will be solved and you don't really need to learn anything or do anything except just connect it up." Frequently the customers who go that route wind up concluding that the magic box does not do exactly what they want it to and they fish around for some sort of modification. ================================================ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alfred Rosa" <76papa@dishmail.net> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 3:39 PM Subject: KIS-List: Aircraft electric question > --> KIS-List message posted by: Alfred Rosa <76papa@dishmail.net> > > I know I could go to aeroelectric with this but they tend to talk too > technical for me. My question is simple and maybe even stupid: When > wiring for the systems that are controlled by switches in the cockpit > such as lighting, flaps, pitot heat, do you run the full amperage > through the 20A switches or should the switches trip relays to handle the > larger current? > Not that I'm doing the wiring now but it's something I've wondered about > for a long time. > > Al ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:36:19 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Crimpmaster for insulated, non-insulated, and open barrel At 12:54 PM 10/31/2009, you wrote: > >Thanks, Bob :-) > >I would have used insulated terminals, but they don't make faston >insulated terminals for 8AWG. 8AWG is too large for fast-on. I don't recommend this technology for anything larger than 12AWG/20A in airplanes. The largest fuse/wire combo I'd recommend on a fuse-block is 15Amps/14AWG. This is a de-rating thing to accommodate the aircraft environs. > I already have the wire, so need to go with what they make, > uninsulated open barrel faston receptacles with separate ears for > wire and insulation. I've seen the open barrel crimpers with > butt-cheek pockets, but I don't have very many of these > connections, so I'm thinking I could use my cheapo GB crimper. It > only goes down to 10awg, but since it's not a cycling crimper, it > might work. Or I could bend the tabs over individually using a > pair of pliers. Where are you needing to put an 8AWG to a fast-on tab? 8AWG implies loads upwards of 40A. I'd stay in threaded fastener and ring terminal world for this much current. >Another issue I have is figuring out which end goes where with the >Crimpaster for PIDG terminals. The left side of the tool have dies >shaped like flying saucers and are coded with numbers and colors for >size. The right side ones are more elliptical. The right side also >is a little narrower than the left. So the terminal sticks out the >left side and the wire goes in from the right? This is explained in the last panel of: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:13 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Crimpmaster for insulated, non-insulated, and open barrel From: "messydeer" > Where are you needing to put an 8AWG to a fast-on tab? 8AWG > implies loads upwards of 40A. Sonex plans show using 8AWG for the power distribution circuit. I have a Jabiru 3300 that puts out between 13A and 20A, depending on which set of their numbers you use. The two alternator leads end in female fastons. Can't see the gauge, but they're a little bigger compared to a piece of 12awg wire with insulation when held next to it. The voltage regulator has 6 wires, all with faston terminals. The size of these wires are also covered, but they look to be about the same size as my 12AWG wire. So I'm thinking it would be best to get 12AWG for this circuit and use fastons. It would be ~3' between the filter capacitor and my main bus, both of which have posts. Would 10AWG be better for this section? > This is explained in the last panel of: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html I saw this in that article: As a general rule, tools with unsymetrical dies will have a smaller, closed-die cross section on the wire grip side. which sounds like it would apply to the Crimpmaster. -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270282#270282 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:19 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Battery Contactor Coil Wiring From: "messydeer" Hi! I've got a Tyco EV200 battery contactor. In addition to the two high current posts, it has two small wires labelled coil positive and coil negative. The Z diagrams show just one wire between the switch and battery contactor. In my case, seems like this would be the coil positive. So where would the coil negative wire be connected? -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270293#270293 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/tyco_ev200_battery_contactor_wiring_664.pdf ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:14 PM PST US From: "Don" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Battery Contactor Coil Wiring It probably drives a light to tell you that the contactor is closed. This can be helpful to prevent starter damage. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of messydeer Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 6:50 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Battery Contactor Coil Wiring Hi! I've got a Tyco EV200 battery contactor. In addition to the two high current posts, it has two small wires labelled coil positive and coil negative. The Z diagrams show just one wire between the switch and battery contactor. In my case, seems like this would be the coil positive. So where would the coil negative wire be connected? -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270293#270293 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/tyco_ev200_battery_contactor_wiring_664.p df ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:09 PM PST US From: Bob White Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery Contactor Coil Wiring Hi Dan, Take a look at how the switch is wired. Most likely it connects the wire to the contactor to ground. In this case, the red wire can be connected directly to the large terminal that goes to the battery. Connect the black wire to the lead to the switch. You don't need the diode when using the EV200. If the switch connects the wire on the contactor to a bus (12V), then the black wire would be connected to ground. Bob W. On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 18:50:19 -0700 "messydeer" wrote: > > Hi! > > I've got a Tyco EV200 battery contactor. In addition to the two high current posts, it has two small wires labelled coil positive and coil negative. The Z diagrams show just one wire between the switch and battery contactor. In my case, seems like this would be the coil positive. So where would the coil negative wire be connected? > > -------- > Dan > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270293#270293 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/tyco_ev200_battery_contactor_wiring_664.pdf > > > > > > > -- N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com Now Rotary Powered Alpine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwceNc2ydN8 Cables for your rotary installation - http://roblinstores.com/ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:20 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery Contactor Coil Wiring From: "messydeer" Thanks, but this is a battery contactor. Seems like what you're saying might work for starter contactor, or am I missing something? -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270306#270306 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:52 PM PST US From: "Don" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery Contactor Coil Wiring You are not missing anything, I mis read the post. Sorry -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of messydeer Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 7:31 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery Contactor Coil Wiring Thanks, but this is a battery contactor. Seems like what you're saying might work for starter contactor, or am I missing something? -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270306#270306 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.