Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:15 AM - Contributions Down By 21%... (Matt Dralle)
1. 07:55 AM - Re: MaxPulse and MaxDim (Phil Samuelian)
2. 09:11 AM - Fuel pump control (Jeff Page)
3. 09:27 AM - Re: Fuel pump control (Harley)
4. 09:44 AM - Re: Fuel pump control (Bob White)
5. 09:45 AM - Re: Fuel pump control (wschertz@comcast.net)
6. 11:35 AM - Re: Fuel pump control (Steve Ruse)
7. 11:55 AM - Re: Fuel pump control (The Kuffels)
8. 07:30 PM - Please review my electrical system (Deviation of Z-13) (Matthew Schumacher)
Message 0
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| Subject: | Contributions Down By 21%... |
Dear Listers,
As of today, contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind
last year at this time by 21%. I have a fund raiser each year simply to cover
my operating costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising income
to support the Lists and rely solely on the contributions of members to keep the
expenses paid.
I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the Internet
connection is a commercial-grade, T1 connection with public address space. I
also maintain a full backup system that does nightly backups of all List-related
data so that in the event of a server crash or worse, all of the Lists and
the many years of List archive data could be restored onto a new server in a matter
of hours.
All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant amount of
my personal time as well. I have a Fund Raiser each year to cover these costs
and I ask that members that feel they receive a benefit from my investments,
make a modest contribution each year to support the continued operation and
upgrade of these services.
If you enjoy the Lists, please make a contribution today. I also offer some incentive
gifts for larger contribution levels. At the Contribution Web Wite, you
can use a credit card, Paypal, or personal check to show your support for the
continuation of these services:
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Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: MaxPulse and MaxDim |
This is a good time to have another MaxDim and MaxPulse "Group Buy".
Wholesale prices on Seaton Engineering products are being raised
substantially on December 1. I set up a "Group Buy" almost a year ago
for U.S. List members only, so here we go again...
If you're looking for the most sophisticated panel dimmer for your
project, the MaxDim is it.
If you're looking for a sophisticated landing light controller for
your project, check out the MaxPulse.
So, through November 29, 2009 order as many as you want at
samcoaviation.com and receive an $8 rebate off the posted price when
you add the note "Aeroelectric List Group Buy" during check out.
Rebates will be applied to your PayPal account after the order is
placed because I have to do this manually.
$3.35 shipping (+ sales tax in CA), but multiple unit orders will ship
together and receive a shipping discount, too (added to rebate).
These dimmers are unparalleled in performance...
NO heat, NO separate, bulky control unit. NO heatsink. Amazing 350W
power control in a 1.25" diameter unit.
This is a best-of-breed product. Mooney has specified these for all
their new planes! (STC and PMA)
5-35VDC, 12.5Amps and less than 1 ounce!
Hook up power, ground, and lights (3 connections), 2 mounting holes to
drill, and you're done.
The 2 units in my Cessna have been installed for over a year, and
still perform flawlessly.
See the specs at samcoaviation.com
Prices are already better than most dealers, plus now you get an
additional $8 off each unit until Nov 29, 2009.
Thanks,
Phil
RV7, Cessna 177
On Nov 4, 2009, at 1:32 AM, cherokee wrote:
> Hey list members. Just thought I would let you all know that we
> completed our installation of the MaxPulse and MaxDim units in our
> 150, 4 months ago now. These things run cool and are a dream to
> install. These correct so many problems we encounter as aircraft
> owners. Like replacing the rheostats or the big dual dimmer that
> costs $1200 from Cessna. Yikes.
> You can see these at www.maxpulsemaxdim.com .
>
> I see another member is gathering a group together for a special buy
> on the MaxDim, I think I will join in that effort for our other Cub.
>
> Mark
> Eagle River, Alaska
Message 2
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| Subject: | Fuel pump control |
I just came across a notation I made quite a while ago, after noticing
a neat idea, probably on this list.
It utilizes a low pressure switch to provide an "automatic" mode to
the electric fuel boost pump, so that if the engine driven pump
failed, the electric one would be powered up.
This seemed like a great idea at the time. It would likely mean an
engine hiccup, followed by the fuel pump on LED illuminating - much
better than the pilot conjecturing the engine failure is due to fuel
starvation and manually turning on the pump (would be a checklist item).
However, looking at the schematic as I drew it, as soon as the
electric pump provided sufficient pressure, the low pressure switch
would open and the pump would shut off, and then back on, and then
off. Ooops :-(
Is it worth fabricating a little latching circuit to provide this
automatic operation, or better to keep things simple ?
I don't do hard IFR, and manually turning on the fuel pump switch in
most circumstances would be sufficient to avoid an unpleasant landing.
Thoughts ?
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump control |
Instead of a pressure switch, how about a flow switch on the input side
of the mechanical pump...
Harley
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Page wrote:
>
> I just came across a notation I made quite a while ago, after noticing
> a neat idea, probably on this list.
>
> It utilizes a low pressure switch to provide an "automatic" mode to
> the electric fuel boost pump, so that if the engine driven pump
> failed, the electric one would be powered up.
>
> This seemed like a great idea at the time. It would likely mean an
> engine hiccup, followed by the fuel pump on LED illuminating - much
> better than the pilot conjecturing the engine failure is due to fuel
> starvation and manually turning on the pump (would be a checklist item).
>
> However, looking at the schematic as I drew it, as soon as the
> electric pump provided sufficient pressure, the low pressure switch
> would open and the pump would shut off, and then back on, and then
> off. Ooops :-(
>
> Is it worth fabricating a little latching circuit to provide this
> automatic operation, or better to keep things simple ?
>
> I don't do hard IFR, and manually turning on the fuel pump switch in
> most circumstances would be sufficient to avoid an unpleasant landing.
>
> Thoughts ?
>
> Jeff Page
> Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump control |
Hi Jeff,
Another option would be to put a one way valve in the output of the
engine driven pump. T the two lines together after the valve. I think
some of the electric pumps provide a one way flow, but if not, you
would need one there also to prevent the mechanical pump from bypassing
the engine. I seem to recall a Faucet pump I had would flow backwards
sometimes depending on where it stopped when it was turned off.
Bob W.
On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:09:41 -0500
"Jeff Page" <jpx@qenesis.com> wrote:
>
> I just came across a notation I made quite a while ago, after noticing
> a neat idea, probably on this list.
>
> It utilizes a low pressure switch to provide an "automatic" mode to
> the electric fuel boost pump, so that if the engine driven pump
> failed, the electric one would be powered up.
>
> This seemed like a great idea at the time. It would likely mean an
> engine hiccup, followed by the fuel pump on LED illuminating - much
> better than the pilot conjecturing the engine failure is due to fuel
> starvation and manually turning on the pump (would be a checklist item).
>
> However, looking at the schematic as I drew it, as soon as the
> electric pump provided sufficient pressure, the low pressure switch
> would open and the pump would shut off, and then back on, and then
> off. Ooops :-(
>
> Is it worth fabricating a little latching circuit to provide this
> automatic operation, or better to keep things simple ?
>
> I don't do hard IFR, and manually turning on the fuel pump switch in
> most circumstances would be sufficient to avoid an unpleasant landing.
>
> Thoughts ?
>
> Jeff Page
> Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
>
>
>
>
>
--
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
Now Rotary Powered Alpine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwceNc2ydN8
Cables for your rotary installation - http://roblinstores.com/
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump control |
I thought perehileon design had a circuit for doing this, but in looking at
there web site, I couldn't find it. Eric Jones monitors the list -- Eric?
Bill Schertz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harley" <harley@AgelessWings.com>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 11:30:35 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuel pump control
Instead of a pressure switch, how about a flow switch on the input side of
the mechanical pump...
Harley
Jeff Page wrote:
I just came across a notation I made quite a while ago, after noticing a ne
at idea, probably on this list.
It utilizes a low pressure switch to provide an "automatic" mode to the ele
ctric fuel boost pump, so that if the engine driven pump failed, the electr
ic one would be powered up.
This seemed like a great idea at the time.=C2- It would likely mean an en
gine hiccup, followed by the fuel pump on LED illuminating - much better th
an the pilot conjecturing the engine failure is due to fuel starvation and
manually turning on the pump (would be a checklist item).
However, looking at the schematic as I drew it, as soon as the electric pum
p provided sufficient pressure, the low pressure switch would open and the
pump would shut off, and then back on, and then off.=C2- Ooops :-(
Is it worth fabricating a little latching circuit to provide this automatic
operation, or better to keep things simple ?
I don't do hard IFR, and manually turning on the fuel pump switch in most c
ircumstances would be sufficient to avoid an unpleasant landing.
Thoughts ?
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump control |
It is pretty simple to do this if you use a fuel pump and relay coil
that require the same voltage. Use a pressure sensor to control the
relay. Connect the relay output to the fuel pump AND to the relay
coil (input). That way when the fuel pump comes on (due to a low
pressure signal), the relay locks itself on, regardless of the state
of the pressure sensor. To turn the pump off, you would have a
momentary switch in the circuit that would break the connection to the
relay coil. This used to be called a "seal-in" circuit for industrial
controls.
Steve Ruse
> Jeff Page wrote:
>
>
> I just came across a notation I made quite a while ago, after
> noticing a neat idea, probably on this list.
>
> It utilizes a low pressure switch to provide an "automatic" mode to
> the electric fuel boost pump, so that if the engine driven pump
> failed, the electric one would be powered up.
>
> This seemed like a great idea at the time. It would likely mean an
> engine hiccup, followed by the fuel pump on LED illuminating - much
> better than the pilot conjecturing the engine failure is due to fuel
> starvation and manually turning on the pump (would be a checklist
> item).
>
> However, looking at the schematic as I drew it, as soon as the
> electric pump provided sufficient pressure, the low pressure switch
> would open and the pump would shut off, and then back on, and then
> off. Ooops :-(
>
> Is it worth fabricating a little latching circuit to provide this
> automatic operation, or better to keep things simple ?
>
> I don't do hard IFR, and manually turning on the fuel pump switch in
> most circumstances would be sufficient to avoid an unpleasant
> landing.
>
> Thoughts ?
>
> Jeff Page
> Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump control |
Jeff,
<< low pressure switch to provide an "automatic" mode to the electric
fuel boost pump, so that if the engine driven pump failed, the electric
one would be powered up. ... It would likely mean an engine hiccup,
followed by the fuel pump on LED illuminating - as soon as the electric
pump provided sufficient pressure, the low pressure switch would open
and the pump would shut off, and then back on, and then off. Ooops :-(
>>
My circuit published in the May 2008 issue of Kitplanes magazine will do
what you describe including switch conditioning and relay driving. It
is a simple programmable timer. Set it to run for say 4 minutes. This
gives you plenty of time to notice the LED and turn on the manual pump
switch. You would need some blocking diodes for the manual switch and a
cockpit accessible fuse/circuit breaker to be able to override a
stuck-on failure.
With the system you describe there should not be an engine hiccup. When
the fuel pressure starts to drop there is still a bowl's worth of fuel
in the carburetor. The pressure switch should turn on the pump and
refill the carb long before the bowl is depleted.
Email me off list and I'll send you a revised schematic for this
function.
Tom
Message 8
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| Subject: | Please review my electrical system (Deviation of Z-13) |
List,
I've been working on the wiring diagram for my airplane (electric panel,
IFR, plane power internally regulated main alt and a SD-8 backup). So
I've been reading though Bob's book and am familiar with the Z-13 wiring
diagram, however there are a two things about it that I don't like:
1. It is possible to turn on both alternators at once. It is my
understanding that you don't want to have both alternators online at
once and I don't want the pilot to be able to cause damage by not using
the correct switches.
2. Alternate feed switches. Feed switches seem cumbersome since it
requires the pilot to know something about the electrical system.
I think I have a new wiring diagram that addresses these things, but I
want to run it past this list and perhaps Bob so that others can help me
find the problems.
Here is how it works:
The avionics bus is treated like the endurance bus since the avionics
are the only things I care about if my alternator fails (I have mags and
a mechanical fuel pump.) When the master switch is on, the battery
pulls the battery contactor which brings the main alternator and battery
into the system. Should something happen to the main alternator the
battery will continue to power the system unless I switch the ALT switch
to AUX. When the alternator switch is on AUX it takes out the main alt
and powers up the SD-8 wired up with the self exciting hack. This will
allow my aux alternator to power the avionics bus (when the Avionics
master is on AUX) but will keep my master contactor and battery separate
from the rest of the system. In the event that I want to charge my main
battery I can turn the master switch off which will then allow me to
charge my battery should I desire to try and bring the main alternator
back after a dead battery.
In order to clear up any confusion here are the basic switches,
settings, and mode of operation:
Master: on, Alt: main, Avionics: main; Normal operation running on the
main alternator and battery.
Master on, Alt: Aux, Avionics: Main; Aux alternator is online and master
alternator is offline, battery is powering everything.
Master on, Alt: Aux, Avionics: Aux; Aux alternator is powering avionics,
main alternator is offline, and battery is powering everything except
avionics.
Master off, Alt: Main, Avionics: main; Nothing is powered up.
Master off, Alt: aux, Avionics: main; Avionics are off, Aux alternator
is online and is charging the battery.
Master Off, Alt: aux, Avoinics: aux; Avionics are on aux alternator, aux
alternator is online and is charging the battery.
Perhaps it would be more intuitive if I name the switches like this:
Battery: On | Off (Aux Charge)
Alternator : MAIN | AUX
Avionics: MAIN | OFF | AUX
This setup reduces the panel down to 3 switches and gives the operator
good control over the system, allows for the battery to be isolated or
charged from the aux alternator, and gives a way for non critical
devices to run off the battery.
If this doesn't look sane to you please post some feedback. Any help I
can get is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
schu
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