Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:00 AM - Re: Dan's Switches (user9253)
2. 06:02 AM - Re: Re: Dan's Switches (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:16 AM - Re: Dan's Switches (user9253)
4. 07:25 AM - Re: Re: Dan's Switches (dave.gribble@mchsi.com)
5. 08:19 AM - Re: Dan's Switches (user9253)
6. 08:33 AM - Re: Dan's Switches (messydeer)
7. 08:46 AM - Re: Dan's Switches (messydeer)
8. 09:23 AM - Re: Dan's Switches (user9253)
9. 10:19 AM - Re: Dan's Switches (messydeer)
10. 10:54 AM - Re: Re: Dan's Switches (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 10:57 AM - Re: Re: Dan's Switches (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 01:43 PM - Re: Re: Dan's Switches (JOHN TIPTON)
13. 02:22 PM - Re: Dan's Switches (messydeer)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
Hi Dan,
Nice pictures. It looks like you are doing a good wiring job. You said that you
had a few questions but I did not see any. Thanks for pointing out the location
of the security switch. I always wanted a Sonex. :-) Actually I am building
a RV-12. Keep up the good work.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274074#274074
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Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
At 05:32 PM 11/20/2009, you wrote:
>
>Since a DPDT switch is the same size and almost the same price as a
>SPST, I thought I could increase switch reliability by putting in
>2-3 instead of 1-3 switches.
But if one half of the switch fails, how will you
know it? Don't confuse reliability with longevity.
Reliability for your flight system (of which YOU
are a component) is achieved by a combination of
understanding, skill, failure tolerant design
and preventative maintenance that takes up the
slack for issues of longevity/service-life.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
Dan,
I do have one suggestion about the regulator_fastons_118.jpg. Unless it will be necessary to periodically disconnect the cable going to the regulator, you could eliminate that plastic connector and the fastons. One of the regulator wires could go directly to the relay. The other wires could be butt spliced like this:http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_Solder_Sleeve/PM_Solder_Sleeve.html
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274077#274077
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Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
Dan - your pictures and wiring look great, congrats!
It looks like you are putting black heatshrink tubing on top of the insulated faston
terminals. Is that for additional strain relief?
dave
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "user9253" <fran5sew@banyanol.com>
>
>
> Dan,
I do have one suggestion about the regulator_fastons_118.jpg. Unless it will be
necessary to periodically disconnect the cable going to the regulator, you could
eliminate that plastic connector and the fastons. One of the regulator wires
could go directly to the relay. The other wires could be butt spliced like
this:http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_Solder_Sleeve/PM_Solder_Sleeve.
> html
> Joe
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274077#274077
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
With a Double Pole switch wired in parallel, one will not know when one half fails
because the circuit will still operate with only half of the switch working.
If at some point the second half of the switch fails, then the pilot will
not be any worse off then if a single-pole switch had failed. Theoretically a
DP switch wired in parallel will last longer than a SP switch because each half
only carries half of the current. As corrosion forms, the resistance of contacts
in parallel will be half. Has anyone, perhaps a switch manufacturer, done
experiments to determine the longevity of a DP switch wired in parallel compared
to a SP switch? It is easier to install a longer-lived switch during panel
build while the circuit is fresh in mind, and while the components are easily
accessible. Is it worth the extra cost and weight and time to install a
double pole switch in an attempt to delay future trouble shooting and difficult
replacing of switches?
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274083#274083
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Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
Good points, Bob and Joe.
Another issue is what route to take and how to fasten the wire bundle going from
the firewall to the channel behind the instrument panel. Many have used the
zip tie bases and simply glued them on. But I would like to see if I could do
without glue that might let loose sometime in the future, especially in such
a hard to reach place.
>From my firewall bulkhead fitting to the side panel is about 12". This fitting
is just out of view on the left of the pic. I would use the same zip tie anchors
but fasten them with SS rivets through the firewall. 2 or 3 should do with
zip ties also spaced between the anchors.
Then, instead of the side panel, I could use the 1/8" angle to support the anchors
or clamps shown in the first 3 arrows in the pic. There would only be 3 or
4 inches between the anchors. After the upright angle I could go 8" to the bottom
of the cover for the buss box, or follow the fat wire through the box itself,
since there'd be room . The buss box cover will be fastened to the underside
of the glare shield 2 or 3 inches behind the tank. Then the bundle would
go another 4" and drop into the instrument panel tray.
I had shied away from using the upper longeron as support, but now I think that
may be a better route. Instead of going to the buss box, I could simply rivet
angle clips every 3 or 4 inches along the longeron to the panel tray. I could
use either zip tie bases riveted to these clips, or use Adel clamps.
How does this sound?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274085#274085
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/first_bundling_side_873.jpg
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
> It looks like you are putting black heatshrink tubing on top of the insulated
faston terminals. Is that for additional strain relief?
The AMP PIDG terminals I got have the non-terminal end insulated only. Then when
I first started crimping, it looked like some of the plastic could have been
poked through. To be safe, I figured I'd best put on heatshrink, which could
also be extended to cover the whole terminal. In some areas it also helps as a
strain relief. Other areas I actually had to cutoff some of the heatshrink because
this prevented it from bending as tight as I needed, like behind the switches.
And putting on the heatshrink is pretty fast and fun, too!
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274086#274086
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Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
Brian Carpenter from Rainbow Aviation, an A&P who teaches the E-LSA course, taught
our class that wire ties should not be used to support wires. Their purpose
is only to keep wires in a neat bundle. Adel clamps or other means should
be used for support. At work in an industrial environment, I have seen many of
those sticky wire-tie bases fall off after a period of time.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274091#274091
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
> wire ties should not be used to support wires
Seems to me a zip tie fastened to a tie base could fail where the base attaches
to the structure, the two little plastic rods of the base where the tie slips
under, or the zip tie itself. I think doing what I did in the pic below remedies
the base to structure problem. I just bent a piece of 025 and riveted through
the hole in the middle of the base. That's not gonna come off. In this particular
shot, I made the angle clip 2.5" to the rivet. I could shorten that to
1", but 2.5" gives it more room between the clip and tank, since the sides of
the tank angle down and toward the center. So if I had to service this item,
it wouldn't be too hard...as long as I could still do a Fosbury Flop under the
tank!
So the question is, could the zip tie or little base rod break? If so, I'd opt
for the metal clamp. I suppose I'd still want the angle clip to give me clearance.
Just replace the plastic base and tie with an Adel clamp.... and pray I don't
ever have to mess with the dang screws later!
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274097#274097
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/longeron_bundle_angle_clip_107.jpg
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
At 10:31 AM 11/21/2009, you wrote:
>
>Good points, Bob and Joe.
>
>Another issue is what route to take and how to fasten the wire
>bundle going from the firewall to the channel behind the instrument
>panel. Many have used the zip tie bases and simply glued them on.
>But I would like to see if I could do without glue that might let
>loose sometime in the future, especially in such a hard to reach place.
There ARE bond-studs that can be used to attach non-structural
components to the airframe without drilling holes.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Bond_Studs.pdf
There are aerospace grade, fast-setting bond studs
too . . . but you don't even want to know what they
cost.
> >From my firewall bulkhead fitting to the side panel is about 12".
> This fitting is just out of view on the left of the pic. I would
> use the same zip tie anchors but fasten them with SS rivets through
> the firewall. 2 or 3 should do with zip ties also spaced between the anchors.
Tie-straps and their companion stick-on/screw-on
bases are problematic. Likelihood of finding stuff
in your local hardware store suited to your task
is low.
>Then, instead of the side panel, I could use the 1/8" angle to
>support the anchors or clamps shown in the first 3 arrows in the
>pic. There would only be 3 or 4 inches between the anchors. After
>the upright angle I could go 8" to the bottom of the cover for the
>buss box, or follow the fat wire through the box itself, since
>there'd be room . The buss box cover will be fastened to the
>underside of the glare shield 2 or 3 inches behind the tank. Then
>the bundle would go another 4" and drop into the instrument panel tray.
>
>I had shied away from using the upper longeron as support, but now I
>think that may be a better route. Instead of going to the buss box,
>I could simply rivet angle clips every 3 or 4 inches along the
>longeron to the panel tray. I could use either zip tie bases riveted
>to these clips, or use Adel clamps.
Adel (or MS21919DG series) clamps are almost NEVER a poor
choice. All metallic fastening is also almost NEVER a poor
choice. Any process involving plastics or stick-ums can
be a good choice but stick with proven recipes for success
for both ingredients and process.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
At 10:44 AM 11/21/2009, you wrote:
>
>
> > It looks like you are putting black heatshrink tubing on top of
> the insulated faston terminals. Is that for additional strain relief?
>
>
>The AMP PIDG terminals I got have the non-terminal end insulated
>only. Then when I first started crimping, it looked like some of the
>plastic could have been poked through.
???? how was the plastic on the PIDG terminal being
compromised???
You may have a crimper vs. terminal compatibility
issue. The tool should NOT damage the terminal.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
Hi Guys
What's the chosen method of shrinking, 'heat-shrink' ?
Regards: John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dan's Switches
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 10:44 AM 11/21/2009, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> > It looks like you are putting black heatshrink tubing on top of
>> the insulated faston terminals. Is that for additional strain relief?
>>
>>
>>The AMP PIDG terminals I got have the non-terminal end insulated only.
>>Then when I first started crimping, it looked like some of the plastic
>>could have been poked through.
>
> ???? how was the plastic on the PIDG terminal being
> compromised???
>
> You may have a crimper vs. terminal compatibility
> issue. The tool should NOT damage the terminal.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ---------------------------------------
> ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
> ( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
> ( tool sharp and available to all our )
> ( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
> ( community. )
> ---------------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
> ???? how was the plastic on the PIDG terminal being
> compromised???
The metal insulation closure when pinched down poked through the outer preinsulation.
I thought I was getting a decent device when I bought the Crimpmaster.
I found that terminals don't fit well in it, both in the direction of the wire
and in the direction of the handle. I tried a few different adjustments and gave
up. I have done almost all of my crimping with a GB cheapo I have and pull
tested enough to know when it's good.
Thanks for the link to the article, Bob. In it, however, there are a couple jpg
links that were broken.
And the pic in the article of the bond stud shows what looks like a nylon P clamp.
They're okay to use?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274138#274138
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