---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 11/21/09: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:00 AM - Re: Dan's Switches (user9253) 2. 06:02 AM - Re: Re: Dan's Switches (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 06:16 AM - Re: Dan's Switches (user9253) 4. 07:25 AM - Re: Re: Dan's Switches (dave.gribble@mchsi.com) 5. 08:19 AM - Re: Dan's Switches (user9253) 6. 08:33 AM - Re: Dan's Switches (messydeer) 7. 08:46 AM - Re: Dan's Switches (messydeer) 8. 09:23 AM - Re: Dan's Switches (user9253) 9. 10:19 AM - Re: Dan's Switches (messydeer) 10. 10:54 AM - Re: Re: Dan's Switches (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 10:57 AM - Re: Re: Dan's Switches (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 01:43 PM - Re: Re: Dan's Switches (JOHN TIPTON) 13. 02:22 PM - Re: Dan's Switches (messydeer) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:47 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dan's Switches From: "user9253" Hi Dan, Nice pictures. It looks like you are doing a good wiring job. You said that you had a few questions but I did not see any. Thanks for pointing out the location of the security switch. I always wanted a Sonex. :-) Actually I am building a RV-12. Keep up the good work. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274074#274074 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:25 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dan's Switches At 05:32 PM 11/20/2009, you wrote: > >Since a DPDT switch is the same size and almost the same price as a >SPST, I thought I could increase switch reliability by putting in >2-3 instead of 1-3 switches. But if one half of the switch fails, how will you know it? Don't confuse reliability with longevity. Reliability for your flight system (of which YOU are a component) is achieved by a combination of understanding, skill, failure tolerant design and preventative maintenance that takes up the slack for issues of longevity/service-life. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! ) ( Do your part to keep this marvelous ) ( tool sharp and available to all our ) ( brothers in the OBAM aviation ) ( community. ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:26 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dan's Switches From: "user9253" Dan, I do have one suggestion about the regulator_fastons_118.jpg. Unless it will be necessary to periodically disconnect the cable going to the regulator, you could eliminate that plastic connector and the fastons. One of the regulator wires could go directly to the relay. The other wires could be butt spliced like this:http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_Solder_Sleeve/PM_Solder_Sleeve.html Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274077#274077 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:25 AM PST US From: dave.gribble@mchsi.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dan's Switches Dan - your pictures and wiring look great, congrats! It looks like you are putting black heatshrink tubing on top of the insulated faston terminals. Is that for additional strain relief? dave -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "user9253" > > > Dan, I do have one suggestion about the regulator_fastons_118.jpg. Unless it will be necessary to periodically disconnect the cable going to the regulator, you could eliminate that plastic connector and the fastons. One of the regulator wires could go directly to the relay. The other wires could be butt spliced like this:http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_Solder_Sleeve/PM_Solder_Sleeve. > html > Joe > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274077#274077 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:44 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dan's Switches From: "user9253" With a Double Pole switch wired in parallel, one will not know when one half fails because the circuit will still operate with only half of the switch working. If at some point the second half of the switch fails, then the pilot will not be any worse off then if a single-pole switch had failed. Theoretically a DP switch wired in parallel will last longer than a SP switch because each half only carries half of the current. As corrosion forms, the resistance of contacts in parallel will be half. Has anyone, perhaps a switch manufacturer, done experiments to determine the longevity of a DP switch wired in parallel compared to a SP switch? It is easier to install a longer-lived switch during panel build while the circuit is fresh in mind, and while the components are easily accessible. Is it worth the extra cost and weight and time to install a double pole switch in an attempt to delay future trouble shooting and difficult replacing of switches? Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274083#274083 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:11 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dan's Switches From: "messydeer" Good points, Bob and Joe. Another issue is what route to take and how to fasten the wire bundle going from the firewall to the channel behind the instrument panel. Many have used the zip tie bases and simply glued them on. But I would like to see if I could do without glue that might let loose sometime in the future, especially in such a hard to reach place. >From my firewall bulkhead fitting to the side panel is about 12". This fitting is just out of view on the left of the pic. I would use the same zip tie anchors but fasten them with SS rivets through the firewall. 2 or 3 should do with zip ties also spaced between the anchors. Then, instead of the side panel, I could use the 1/8" angle to support the anchors or clamps shown in the first 3 arrows in the pic. There would only be 3 or 4 inches between the anchors. After the upright angle I could go 8" to the bottom of the cover for the buss box, or follow the fat wire through the box itself, since there'd be room . The buss box cover will be fastened to the underside of the glare shield 2 or 3 inches behind the tank. Then the bundle would go another 4" and drop into the instrument panel tray. I had shied away from using the upper longeron as support, but now I think that may be a better route. Instead of going to the buss box, I could simply rivet angle clips every 3 or 4 inches along the longeron to the panel tray. I could use either zip tie bases riveted to these clips, or use Adel clamps. How does this sound? -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274085#274085 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/first_bundling_side_873.jpg ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:46:06 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dan's Switches From: "messydeer" > It looks like you are putting black heatshrink tubing on top of the insulated faston terminals. Is that for additional strain relief? The AMP PIDG terminals I got have the non-terminal end insulated only. Then when I first started crimping, it looked like some of the plastic could have been poked through. To be safe, I figured I'd best put on heatshrink, which could also be extended to cover the whole terminal. In some areas it also helps as a strain relief. Other areas I actually had to cutoff some of the heatshrink because this prevented it from bending as tight as I needed, like behind the switches. And putting on the heatshrink is pretty fast and fun, too! -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274086#274086 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:23:05 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dan's Switches From: "user9253" Brian Carpenter from Rainbow Aviation, an A&P who teaches the E-LSA course, taught our class that wire ties should not be used to support wires. Their purpose is only to keep wires in a neat bundle. Adel clamps or other means should be used for support. At work in an industrial environment, I have seen many of those sticky wire-tie bases fall off after a period of time. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274091#274091 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:19:41 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dan's Switches From: "messydeer" > wire ties should not be used to support wires Seems to me a zip tie fastened to a tie base could fail where the base attaches to the structure, the two little plastic rods of the base where the tie slips under, or the zip tie itself. I think doing what I did in the pic below remedies the base to structure problem. I just bent a piece of 025 and riveted through the hole in the middle of the base. That's not gonna come off. In this particular shot, I made the angle clip 2.5" to the rivet. I could shorten that to 1", but 2.5" gives it more room between the clip and tank, since the sides of the tank angle down and toward the center. So if I had to service this item, it wouldn't be too hard...as long as I could still do a Fosbury Flop under the tank! So the question is, could the zip tie or little base rod break? If so, I'd opt for the metal clamp. I suppose I'd still want the angle clip to give me clearance. Just replace the plastic base and tie with an Adel clamp.... and pray I don't ever have to mess with the dang screws later! -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274097#274097 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/longeron_bundle_angle_clip_107.jpg ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:27 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dan's Switches At 10:31 AM 11/21/2009, you wrote: > >Good points, Bob and Joe. > >Another issue is what route to take and how to fasten the wire >bundle going from the firewall to the channel behind the instrument >panel. Many have used the zip tie bases and simply glued them on. >But I would like to see if I could do without glue that might let >loose sometime in the future, especially in such a hard to reach place. There ARE bond-studs that can be used to attach non-structural components to the airframe without drilling holes. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Bond_Studs.pdf There are aerospace grade, fast-setting bond studs too . . . but you don't even want to know what they cost. > >From my firewall bulkhead fitting to the side panel is about 12". > This fitting is just out of view on the left of the pic. I would > use the same zip tie anchors but fasten them with SS rivets through > the firewall. 2 or 3 should do with zip ties also spaced between the anchors. Tie-straps and their companion stick-on/screw-on bases are problematic. Likelihood of finding stuff in your local hardware store suited to your task is low. >Then, instead of the side panel, I could use the 1/8" angle to >support the anchors or clamps shown in the first 3 arrows in the >pic. There would only be 3 or 4 inches between the anchors. After >the upright angle I could go 8" to the bottom of the cover for the >buss box, or follow the fat wire through the box itself, since >there'd be room . The buss box cover will be fastened to the >underside of the glare shield 2 or 3 inches behind the tank. Then >the bundle would go another 4" and drop into the instrument panel tray. > >I had shied away from using the upper longeron as support, but now I >think that may be a better route. Instead of going to the buss box, >I could simply rivet angle clips every 3 or 4 inches along the >longeron to the panel tray. I could use either zip tie bases riveted >to these clips, or use Adel clamps. Adel (or MS21919DG series) clamps are almost NEVER a poor choice. All metallic fastening is also almost NEVER a poor choice. Any process involving plastics or stick-ums can be a good choice but stick with proven recipes for success for both ingredients and process. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! ) ( Do your part to keep this marvelous ) ( tool sharp and available to all our ) ( brothers in the OBAM aviation ) ( community. ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:57:41 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dan's Switches At 10:44 AM 11/21/2009, you wrote: > > > > It looks like you are putting black heatshrink tubing on top of > the insulated faston terminals. Is that for additional strain relief? > > >The AMP PIDG terminals I got have the non-terminal end insulated >only. Then when I first started crimping, it looked like some of the >plastic could have been poked through. ???? how was the plastic on the PIDG terminal being compromised??? You may have a crimper vs. terminal compatibility issue. The tool should NOT damage the terminal. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! ) ( Do your part to keep this marvelous ) ( tool sharp and available to all our ) ( brothers in the OBAM aviation ) ( community. ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:49 PM PST US From: "JOHN TIPTON" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dan's Switches Hi Guys What's the chosen method of shrinking, 'heat-shrink' ? Regards: John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 6:55 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dan's Switches > > > At 10:44 AM 11/21/2009, you wrote: >> >> >> > It looks like you are putting black heatshrink tubing on top of >> the insulated faston terminals. Is that for additional strain relief? >> >> >>The AMP PIDG terminals I got have the non-terminal end insulated only. >>Then when I first started crimping, it looked like some of the plastic >>could have been poked through. > > ???? how was the plastic on the PIDG terminal being > compromised??? > > You may have a crimper vs. terminal compatibility > issue. The tool should NOT damage the terminal. > > > Bob . . . > > --------------------------------------- > ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! ) > ( Do your part to keep this marvelous ) > ( tool sharp and available to all our ) > ( brothers in the OBAM aviation ) > ( community. ) > --------------------------------------- > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:30 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dan's Switches From: "messydeer" > ???? how was the plastic on the PIDG terminal being > compromised??? The metal insulation closure when pinched down poked through the outer preinsulation. I thought I was getting a decent device when I bought the Crimpmaster. I found that terminals don't fit well in it, both in the direction of the wire and in the direction of the handle. I tried a few different adjustments and gave up. I have done almost all of my crimping with a GB cheapo I have and pull tested enough to know when it's good. Thanks for the link to the article, Bob. In it, however, there are a couple jpg links that were broken. And the pic in the article of the bond stud shows what looks like a nylon P clamp. They're okay to use? -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274138#274138 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.