---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 11/29/09: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:05 AM - Just Two More Days Left; Fund Raiser Behind By 12%... (Matt Dralle) 1. 04:45 AM - Re: KX 170B Installation manual (Tony Babb) 2. 08:56 AM - KX170/175 Installation Manual (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 09:49 AM - Coax connectors for KI214 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 10:10 AM - Re: Coax connectors for KI214 (dave.gribble@mchsi.com) 5. 12:51 PM - OK, I'm on the edge of donating again this year, Matt (DeWitt Whittington) 6. 01:15 PM - Icom 210 antenna suggestion (Geoff Heap) 7. 03:06 PM - Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion (Sam Hoskins) 8. 03:22 PM - Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion (Geoff Heap) 9. 03:52 PM - Re: Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion (Neal George) 10. 05:03 PM - Re: Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion (n801bh@netzero.com) 11. 05:36 PM - Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 05:36 PM - Re: Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 05:47 PM - Contactor Failure (Speedy11@aol.com) 14. 06:29 PM - Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion (chris Sinfield) 15. 06:30 PM - Re: Contactor Failure (rckol) 16. 07:39 PM - Re: Contactor Failure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 17. 08:42 PM - Re: Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion (RGent1224@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:05:58 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: AeroElectric-List: Just Two More Days Left; Fund Raiser Behind By 12%... Dear Listers, This year's List Fund Raiser is still trailing last year by a 12% margin. If you like the ad-free environment that is the Matronics Email List and Forum experience, please make a quick Contribution to keep it that way! http://www.matronics.com/contribution I've been getting a ton of really nice comments from Contributors regarding the Lists. Please read over some of them below and see if they don't resonate with you as well. Thank you in advance for your generous contribution to support these Lists! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator --------------------------- Member Feedback ---------------------------- ur web site is a real institution of the whole Experimental Aircraft subculture. John G Thanks Matt for the lists. A lot of good info. Great bunch of list members. Great videos and no SPAM. Paul C It has been a valuable tool. Troy M ..appreciate the site as much as ever. Larry M By using various forums I've learned a ton, received great advice, made friends, and saved money! Craig W Since I've finished [my project], I've not had much to do as far as fabrication of electrical systems. However, selectively reading various topics is still very valuable and Bob's insights and new how to's make me a continuous subscriber. Larry F Matronics user groups are the best tool I have for learning to build my RV-10! Philip W There is always useful knowledge to be found on this list, and I suspect that it has kept quite a few people out of trouble over the years it has been in operation. Good entertainment, too. Graham H Great web site. I wish I'd known about it while building. Bob S I'm happy to provide some support to this list. It is very helpful. Vaughn T Good service to sport aviation!! Roger B Awesome Service you provide for us! Bill R My [project] is almost finished! However, it wouldn't be close without the [this] group. Douwe B Great list. Robert S I'm not a builder yet but learning lots from the list. Peter M Some nonsense, some humor, but mostly good information. Tony C Thanks for creating and keeping the Lists. They are entertaining and always informative! John M Thanks for this valuable resource to our community. Barry H The list is IMHO the greatest resource on the net. John B Thanks again for providing another year of your useful List service. Jerry B Great site indeed, every time I get a message I usually learn something. Peter B You are making a huge contribution to the builder fraternity and in no small way enhancing sport aviation safety. Richard G The List is the SINGLE, MOST IMPORTANT resource I have in building my RV10. I would be lost without out it. And I have made a bunch of new friends as well! Les K The lists are one of the things I really enjoy, so keep up the good work. Freddie H Every year -- the best value for my time and money! Owen B This list is a major contribution to safe building! Donald K Really enjoy the daily boost it gives me. Walter S In the last 18 months I have been privileged to listen & ask. I have learnt at the feet of the masters... Stewart G You set the standard on how Internet forums should be run and managed. Larry W The Universe is a better place because of you. Eric J [The List] helped me get flying, fly off my test hours and make my systems better. I continue to get and give information through these lists. Ralph C ..another GREAT year of advice, answers, and inspiration courtesy of the Lists and your hard work!!!! Rob B ..the best forum on the Internet! Robert B I can't tell you how grateful I am for your list and your subscribers to keep me up to date and holding the dream. Ashley M This page makes it easy to contribute. Jeffrey P Thank you for your expertise in creating & running the much useful lists! Anthony P Thanks for providing our advertising free on line community. George R Thanks for maintaining the equipment and software to provide this valuable source of information to us individuals. Your effort is appreciated by many more people than you realize. Ross H Thanks for a great site. Although the project is complete and flying I still get a wealth of information from all the messages. Marcus C Only learned about you six months ago...my RV-7A is just finished, but the list has been helpful. Wish I had discovered you sooner. Jack B This is an invaluable communications media for us common minded folks to exchange technical and other information. George H ..great service that you provide. David W ..still appreciate your list. Alain L [The] Lists are an invaluable resource. I know that it has helped me enormously in my project. William B ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:45:00 AM PST US From: "Tony Babb" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: KX 170B Installation manual I was able to open several of the radio pinout docs, reference docs and the FAQs using Win XP/ Firefox 3.5.5 -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Colm O'Reilly Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 4:40 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KX 170B Installation manual --> All links worked fine on my Imac with Safari. On Nov 28, 2009, at 7:14 PM, Dave wrote: > > > Tony, > > > Thanks for the info. I fired up my dell laptop XP with SP3 and I was > also able to access the files. Went over to the Imac running firefox > and still had the same issue. > > > Dave > > > > > I was able to access several of the radio pinouts, reference documents > and the FAQs. Win XP/ IE8 > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:56 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: KX170/175 Installation Manual A List member was kind enough to help us expand our library of King Radio support documents. The KX170/175 install manual has been posted at . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/KX_170B_175B-Install_Manual.pdf Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! ) ( Do your part to keep this marvelous ) ( tool sharp and available to all our ) ( brothers in the OBAM aviation ) ( community. ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:49:58 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Coax connectors for KI214 > >I need to do a little more research but the original question was about >the coax from the KI-214 to the glideslope antenna not the connection to >the KX 170B. He thought that the KX 170 B manual would have the info he >needed. He hasn't seen this type of connector before and didn't know >how to connect it to the coax. I've found a picture of the thing . . . Emacs! I vaguely remember seeing these on some installed equipment. I think these are a Kings Connectors KM59-13. I don't recall seeing these very often in the coax cable version but they're popular now for a bunch of fiber-optic cables. I've not yet chased down the installation specifics but I'll bet they're VERY close to the venerable solder-n-clampnut versions of the BNC connector. http://www.amphenolrf.com/pdf/299.pdf Perhaps someone on the List can enlighten us further. I'll keep looking. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! ) ( Do your part to keep this marvelous ) ( tool sharp and available to all our ) ( brothers in the OBAM aviation ) ( community. ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:10:00 AM PST US From: dave.gribble@mchsi.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Coax connectors for KI214 That same connector is on the back of a King KI-214 VOR/LOC/Glideslope indicator. In that application it carries the 350 MHz Glideslope signal from the antenna (or diplexer), since the receiver is located in the indicator. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > > > > >I need to do a little more research but the original question was about > >the coax from the KI-214 to the glideslope antenna not the connection to > >the KX 170B. He thought that the KX 170 B manual would have the info he > >needed. He hasn't seen this type of connector before and didn't know > >how to connect it to the coax. > > I've found a picture of the thing . . . > > Emacs! > > > I vaguely remember seeing these on some installed equipment. > I think these are a Kings Connectors KM59-13. I don't > recall seeing these very often in the coax cable version > but they're popular now for a bunch of fiber-optic > cables. > > I've not yet chased down the installation specifics > but I'll bet they're VERY close to the venerable > solder-n-clampnut versions of the BNC connector. > > http://www.amphenolrf.com/pdf/299.pdf > > > Perhaps someone on the List can enlighten us > further. I'll keep looking. > > > Bob . . . > > --------------------------------------- > ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! ) > ( Do your part to keep this marvelous ) > ( tool sharp and available to all our ) > ( brothers in the OBAM aviation ) > ( community. ) > --------------------------------------- > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:51:22 PM PST US From: DeWitt Whittington Subject: AeroElectric-List: OK, I'm on the edge of donating again this year, Matt Hello, Matt, I've been a user and supporter of your wonderful lists, primarily of the AeroElectric-List, for years. However, although it has nothing directly to do with your lists, I must say that as a long time Kitlog Pro user, I'm still waiting for your promised update to the program. You bought Kitlog Pro several years ago and more than once indicated to me that an update was on the way. It would be so nice to have a number of the not user-friendly features of Kitlog improved as we have discussed in emails to each other. And I'd especially like Kitlog to be able to handle more than one builder account in the Expense Log section. The program already handles multiple builders in the Construction Log section. I'm sure I'm not the only Kitlog Pro user who has partners in their project who want to keep their dollar contributions separate. OK, now that I've got that off my chest, I'll whiz over and donate again this year. Hopefully next Spring we'll fly our Sportsman. Dee DeWitt (Dee) Whittington 406 N Mulberry St Richmond, VA 23220-3320 (804) 358-4333 phone and fax SKYPE: hilltopkid GlaStar Sportsman 2+2 #7034, reserved N18TA Eggenfellner E6 Subaru 3.6L with 2.01 redrive dee.whittington@gmail.com www.glasairaviation.com www.glastar.org www.eggenfellneraircraft.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:15:33 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Icom 210 antenna suggestion From: "Geoff Heap" Can I get any suggestions from satisfied customers for an antenna for a Icom A210....Thanks Geoff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275342#275342 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:06:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Icom 210 antenna suggestion From: Sam Hoskins You need to specify the aircraft. P-51 Mustang? Ultralight? Quickie? Aluminium? Sam On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Geoff Heap wrote: > > Can I get any suggestions from satisfied customers for an antenna for a > Icom A210....Thanks Geoff > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275342#275342 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:22:39 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion From: "Geoff Heap" OK its for a Zenith ch701. All aluminum Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275355#275355 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:52:27 PM PST US From: "Neal George" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion A quarter-wave ground plane mounted on the belly. Something like the Comant CI-122. A fine example listed here: http://steinair.com/avionics.htm neal === OK its for a Zenith ch701. All aluminum ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:28 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion I used one just like that on my Zenith 801... Works great. I did mount m ine on the belly behind the trap door. Since 98% of the time you are bro adcasting and receiving from the air why put it on the top of the plane? The other end of that transmission is below you. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Neal George" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion A quarter-wave ground plane mounted on the belly. Something like the Comant CI-122. A fine example listed here: http://steinair.com/avionics.htm neal === t> OK its for a Zenith ch701. All aluminum ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ____________________________________________________________ Health Insurance Savings Get affordable Health Insurance - Blue Cross, Aetna, Humana, & More. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/c?cp=getG_UXVPD283vHyc8Yck AAAJ1GgTD6yWnN9nTOcXhzb7nn5AAQAAAAFAAAAAIUJGT4AAANSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAiWO AAAAAA ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:36:22 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Icom 210 antenna suggestion At 03:12 PM 11/29/2009, you wrote: > >Can I get any suggestions from satisfied customers for an antenna >for a Icom A210....Thanks Geoff What's your budget for an antenna purchase? What kind of airplane are you installing it on? Are you willing to place the antenna for optimum performance as opposed to least ugly appearance? The well designed transceiver will function adequately on about anything from a wet-string to a $2000 shark-fin with a turbocharged flame job painted on the side of it. ICom is about as capable as they come for building a radio that works well. So the suite of antennas available to you is pretty large. The least expensive antennas tend to be not very robust mechanically while all the $high$ products are very rugged but would not perform so much better that you would notice a difference. The going rate for a run-of-the-mill, 5-hole mount vhf comm antenna is about $150. You can build an antenna for about $15 in materials and a couple hours fiddling in the shop. Are you installing on a metal or plastic airplane? Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! ) ( Do your part to keep this marvelous ) ( tool sharp and available to all our ) ( brothers in the OBAM aviation ) ( community. ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:36:38 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion At 05:19 PM 11/29/2009, you wrote: > >OK its for a Zenith ch701. All aluminum Mounting on belly or on top behind the canopy? Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! ) ( Do your part to keep this marvelous ) ( tool sharp and available to all our ) ( brothers in the OBAM aviation ) ( community. ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:53 PM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Contactor Failure Any folks had a contactor failure? My understanding was that contactors are not failure prone. I understood that was the reasoning behind inserting one between the battery and the starter solenoid. I had one fail the other day (actually it stuck in the closed position) after 40 hours of use. It was an intermittent duty contactor installed between the #4 welding cable from the positive battery post and the Skytec starter. If my engine doesn't start on the third blade, I release the starter button to check what I've missed and try it again. When I released the starter button, the prop kept turning. I quickly hit the starter button again thinking it might have stuck. The blades kept turning. I turned off both batteries and all fuel source. The blades had stopped by then (10 seconds) but the starter was still engaged. Set the brake and ran to the hangar for wrenches. I had to disconnect the battery to stop the starter. There was no other way. Did I design in a fault? Aren't most custom-built airplanes built with a contactor between the hot battery and the starter? Should I have some other type of disconnect between the battery and the contactor? Stan Sutterfield RV-8A flying ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:13 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion From: "chris Sinfield" Hey where can I get designs for a simple wire VHF ant? never thought of making mine.. Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275376#275376 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:51 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Contactor Failure From: "rckol" If I understand your system, you have a circuit from the battery straight to the starter contactor. Running the starter contactor in series with the master bus contactor allows you to kill the starter with the master switch in the event that your starter or starter contactor decides to run on. Bob's Z designs typically have this feature. -------- rck Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275377#275377 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:03 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Contactor Failure At 07:45 PM 11/29/2009, you wrote: >Any folks had a contactor failure? >My understanding was that contactors are not failure prone. Don't know what you mean by "failure prone". All parts have service lives. The service lives of all parts are subject to the stresses of the installation combined with the effects of manufacturing variability. > I understood that was the reasoning behind inserting one between > the battery and the starter solenoid. >I had one fail the other day (actually it stuck in the closed >position) after 40 hours of use. It was an intermittent duty >contactor installed between the #4 welding cable from the positive >battery post and the Skytec starter. Does your starter feature a contactor/solenoid combination that controls both power to the motor while extending the pinion gear for engagement? >If my engine doesn't start on the third blade, I release the starter >button to check what I've missed and try it again. When I released >the starter button, the prop kept turning. I quickly hit the >starter button again thinking it might have stuck. The blades kept >turning. I turned off both batteries and all fuel source. The >blades had stopped by then (10 seconds) but the starter was still >engaged. Set the brake and ran to the hangar for wrenches. I had >to disconnect the battery to stop the starter. There was no other way. >Did I design in a fault? Does your starter current go through the battery master contactor as depicted on ALL z-figures and common to ALL type certificated aircraft? > Aren't most custom-built airplanes built with a contactor between > the hot battery and the starter? Should I have some other type of > disconnect between the battery and the contactor? Yup, the TC aircraft do it too . . . it's called the battery master contactor. As to the original failure. Permanent magnet starters offer VERY high in-rush currents because the current limiting characteristics of the series field are not present. The device selected to actively control starter current is not up to the task. I was a participant in the deliberations that set design goals at B&C some years back when consideration was given to PM fields. For a several reasons, B&C stayed with the wound fields. One reason germane to your experience was the fact that battery internal impedances were going down while stall currents of "modern" PM starters was going up. This combination predicted a potential for increased stress in contact closing on the starter contactor. If memory serves me correctly, the Skytec's built in contactor is probably tailored to this extra stress but it DOES exhibit inrush current issues of its own. See . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf Suggest you rewire to eliminate the external, intermittant duty starter contactor. Run your starter current through the battery master as suggested in the drawings. Buffer the inrush current to your starter contactor as suggested in Z-22. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! ) ( Do your part to keep this marvelous ) ( tool sharp and available to all our ) ( brothers in the OBAM aviation ) ( community. ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:23 PM PST US From: RGent1224@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion Your local Ham operator - the older the better Dick In a message dated 11/29/2009 8:30:13 P.M. Central Standard Time, chris_sinfield@yahoo.com.au writes: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "chris Sinfield" Hey where can I get designs for a simple wire VHF ant? never thought of making mine.. 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